Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20190512

Government to get himself elected. We have some things up our sleeve that should turn this around. And the subpoena for the tax returns. How a Crucial Court Decision Just changed the course of the investigation into Donald Trumps finances. Plus, how the stalemate on Donald Trumps trade war will affect you. And breaking the cycle on white supremacist hate in america. Well, i got caught up with what is basically becoming a White Nationalist terrorist group. Breaking hate. Ideology isnt as important as the desire to belong. All in starts right now. Good evening from chicago. Im chris hayes. After escaping the Mueller Investigation with no direct criminal charges related to conspiracy with russians or obstruction, the emboldened Trump White House has stone walled democrats at just about every turn, refusing to turn over a single white house document, refusing to allow key witnesses to testify, and refusing tory lease the president s tax returns despite a very clearly worded law callingcal calling for them to do so. Now house ways and means of the house of representatives subpoenas his returns followed by the chair who subpoenaed donald trump jr. The House Judiciary Committee voted to recommend the house hold trumps attorney general in contempt for their ignoring the subpoena. While the Trump Administration tries to undermine the Government Systems of checks and balances, the Trump Campaign is flagrantly about to run the same play they ran in 2016. Openly inviting and welcoming foreign interference in the president ial election. Rudy giuliani who is the president s current personal attorney because the previous one is in prison, says he is going to go to ukraine to in his own words, and i am quoting him, meddle in an investigation. To attempt to solicit foreign intervention, to try to politically wound joe biden. Never mind. Its already been reported. The claim hes making and the story hes pursuing isnt true. Giuliani told the new york times, quote, there is nothing illegal about it. Somebody could say its improper, and that that is the lesson the Trump Campaign learned from the Mueller Report, which is that they got away with everything they did that was improper, and so they will do it again. They got away with donald trump jr. Responding to an offer of russian assistance from the russian government by saying, if its what you say, i love it, especially later in the summer. They got away with lying over and over about trump tower moscow and the president s business ties to russia. They got away with this. Russia, if you are listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. Thanks to robert mueller, we now know they were listening because that very same day, Russian Military intelligence tried to hack Hillary Clintons private server for the first time. Now, the Trump Campaign is just doing it again in front of us, and theyre doing it not as a candidate and a businessman, but with the full force of the United States government behind them. When Rudy Giuliani shows up in kiev, everyone knows who he is. When facebook kicked a bunch of russian trolls and bots off its platform earlier this week, you will never guess what story one of them was amping. Joining me now is a guest for whom this may all feel a little too floor, felipe ranez. He is now a cohost of the unb redacted podcast. Your response to reading jew giuliani saying this is not illegal. I hope my microphone wasnt off. I have been screaming into it the last five minutes. We all come up with lines to describe it, but you have hit the nail on the head when you said donald trump and his kids and his campaign and his minions escaped and are emboldened. Im not a lawyer. I dont know what the legal distinction is between what they did in trump tower and other things in 2016, but they committed moral and ethical treason against the United States, and whats interesting is they dont even realize when they did it. The donald junior defense is, well, when we had the meeting, nothing came of it. The truth of the matter is the moment he responded to that email saying, if its what you say, i love it, he was saying that we are open for business. He was saying that its open season on our candidates, and now rudy is doing the same thing, and frankly, rudy is just because hes another one of the president s crazy lawyers who has lost his mind, he clearly thinks hes speaking on behalf of the United States. The chutzpah of that, when john kerry was said he should be in prison because he no longer represents the United States, i want to know, and i think the congress should want to know, and the congress should compel rudy to come in and tell them what instructions has he been given . If hes just doing this, there is a problem, and this isnt just about russia. This is just not just ukraine, but we have tepeople in china a north korea at their key boards saying, we can do whatever we want, and, you know, this is another abuse of power and my fear is that the Democratic Party will not do anything about it. Theyre going to put all our eggs in the basket of election day a year and a half from now, and the day after were going to be, like, oh, its not fair. He had help from the ukraine. Yeah. Were seeing it happen. We watched it happen in 2016, and did nothing about it, and we are on the verge of being guilty of watching it in 2020, and not doing anything about it. You mean impeachment is what you are referring to . In terms of in hindsight we saw what we was saying out loud. If you can find her email, five hours later, they were broadcasting and in diplomacy, i was the most undiplomatic diplomat in the department of state. The body language and your words, you were basically broadcasting things without saying anything, and they are saying, do it, and what was happening is that the system failed to stop him. Our campaign was lighting our hair on fire. The media some media did. Some media didnt. The government kind of did. It kind of didnt. In hindsight, we all realized they got away with murder in 2016. Im not exactly sure that any single human being in the United States can list three things that are being done to prevent that from happening next year. I can name ten things that donald trump is doing not only to repeat it, but to make it so much worse. It also strikes me, you said open for business is that this was not an accidental disclosure by Rudy Giuliani. Were calling the attention to it for a reason. He is giving on the record quotes for a reason. Its a public trip. What is your read of what message that is sending not just to ukraine, but to everyone else . Thats the thing. Rudy doesnt have to go anywhere from here. He could go and sit on his couch and not go to ukraine, not go to russia. Everyones heard it on television. He achieved what rudy did today was the equivalent of, if its what you say, i love it. The difference is yeah. And the difference between next year and three years ago is that we are dealing with an incumbent. We are dealing with an incumbent that can do what the Republican Party and the right wing did ten times over, whereas they give our candidates health problems. They give our candidates investigations. They give our candidates baggage. Now hes going to have the full force of government which he has proven that he is more than willing to abuse for his own political purposes, and he is going to do it, and rudy just said, have at it. Im going to go have a beer. I dont need to go to the ukraine or meddle in person. He has already meddled. Rudy giuliani today has already committed a crime against the United States. Felipe reines, thank you very much. Thank you, chris. Joining me now for more is our correspondent from gq magazine, and matt miller, the former chief spokesperson for the department of justice under eric holder. Julia, someone familiar with some of the dynamics here, what do you make of this . You know, im going to have to agree with felipe. I think this is, you know, its been what . Less than a month since the Mueller Report came out which detailed over the course of hundreds of pages in volume 1, all the extended conteacts the Trump Campaign had with the russians and the russians had with the Trump Campaign that, you know, anybody reading it, i think was scratching their head and thinking, how is this legal, and how does this not result in charges of conspiracy or cooperation or i dont know, Campaign Finance violations . And the fact that, and as you said in your intro, they got away with it. And so, you know, its the moral hazard, right . Yeah. They havent been punished, so why not keep doing it . It helped them in 2016. They can why wouldnt it help them in 2020 . Why wouldnt the russians want to get involved . I think a different question is the ukrainians probably not on trumps side. Let me follow up on that, and ill come to you, matt. Whats your read there obviously that part of whats crazy about this is hes the president. Ukraine has part of its territory occupied by the russians. They are dependent on the u. S. For arms sales. Theres incredibly complicated and high stakes speed craft question here. Exactly, and they just had a new president be elected and that this is kind of the first u. S. Trip essentially over there, and the president s private lawyer saying, hey. Do you have any more dirt, and can you keep this investigation going on our opponent . Which is also funny because, you know, we have been consistently pushing on the ukrainians to deal with corruption in their system. Right. And things like this. The other thing is donald trump at last summers g7 meeting behind closed doors told all the europeans, you know, get off it. Crimeas russian. Just let it go. So him now going to the very antimoscow, antiputin new president of russia and saying, like, hey. Can you help us . Its kind of, you know, kind of rich. Yeah. Matt, Felipe Reines just said this is a crime against the u. S. , which i think he meant, you know, in a deep, philosophical sense as opposed to a legal sense. How inappropriate, how improper and how bad is this . Its completely inappropriate, and i think what this is, is you see trump again, operating in a space where law doesnt really exist, a space where you would be governed by norms. Its inappropriate to send somebody to pressure a Foreign Government to retaliate against his domestic political opponents. When you put it like that, yeah. Exactly. Exactly, and its, you know, thats the kind of thing thats not illegal because you never thought you had to have a law against that because it would be completely inappropriate for a president to do. I think if you look at what happened in 2016, and you look at whats happening now, the reason its so much worse as felipe said, the difference is hes an incumbent, and he can use the powers of the president to pressure a Foreign Government, and its because hes going to use his powers as president to follow you. I guarantee you hes going to have a conversation with bill barr to urge him to investigate this thing. Yep. You saw the attorney general when he was before Congress Asked by Kamala Harris whether he had been asked by the white house to open an investigation. He wouldnt answer or talk about this. This is one of the things the president wanted to investigate, and i think its important to say because the way this happens is the right wing kind of gens of these charges and tries to get them covered. This is based on a lie. Wa the Vice President did nothing wrong, but it will be covered forever, and they may get the investigations they want out of it at the end. By the way sorry. There was just a news alert that trump told politico that he will talk to attorney general barr to urge him to investigate joe biden. There you go. Sorry. I mean, right. Its just again. This is the lesson that was learned and the key lesson i think they learned was, if you do it in public, it doesnt count, right . So the most incriminating thing that donald trump did, was russia, if you are listening. That he did in public. If we had discovered an email that donald trump had sent to the russians saying, listen. Can you hack Hillary Clinton . That would have been scandalous, but because he just looked at a camera and they got the message and thats the way theyre going to run the play this time, to do it in front of everyone and dare someone to stop them. Which is why you see Rudy Giuliani bragging about it. Its the same strategy, and its in the open and do it. Its the same thing on the other side. Its not just the president openly trying to get this, you know, investigation started. He openly, you know, tried to get the Justice Department to investigate Hillary Clinton which is what you see him doing now, where he openly thinks its okay for him to urge the Justice Department to investigate his political opponent. That was the norm that has been a red line the president couldnt touch. He crossed that red line. He got away with it. There has been no sanction. He thinks that, you know, he thinks its okay, and that norm doesnt exist anymore. Remember bill barr in his testimony before the senate and his confirmation hearing said it is okay for a president to suggest these types of investigations. That norm is gone. Its completely gone, and you will see the president continue to trample all over it. Can i just say one thing . Yeah, please. Sorry. One thing i wanted to add was, well, a, you know, in the barr memo, he said this wasnt obstruction of justice because he was public about it, which was puzzling, and the other thing it reveals about our system that is incredibly troubling is that not only are a lot of things that we do and dont do in american politics based on norms, but also laws arent selfenforcing. So again, if you dont get in trouble yeah. What do the laws mean . Thank you both. Joining me now, one of the democrats leading the investigations into donald trump, congresswoman Maxine Waters of california. She chairs the Financial Services committee. Lets talk about your reaction to the president now according to politico i have not seen the news myself saying hes going to lobby his attorney general to investigate joe biden and his political opponents and sending a political adversary to a Foreign Government. I am not shocked or surprised. Anything this president and his minions do, as i have said over and over again, this president is a dishonorable, despicable human being and hes undermining our country. Hes undermining our democracy. Hes disregarding the constitution of the United States, and this president should have been impeached a long time ago. I know, yes. I want to ask you a question about that because in your stated position publicly, on the show for do you have conversations with your fellow members of the Democratic House leadership about this topic in which you make this case to them . We talk about what is going on in this country, and this president in our meetings. I talk about it with my colleagues. Of course, im in the caucuses. Im in leadership meetings, et cetera, et cetera, and i know that nancy pelosi, the speaker is trying to do everything that she possibly can to steer us to win, and i know that she firmly believes that were on the right course if, in fact, we continue to go with the hearings in our committees, oversight responsibilities taken care of, she believes this will anew to our benefit. I simply believe that the president of the United States is dangerous, and if he gets away with what he is doing now, he will have changed the role of the presidency in the future, and i think that is bothersome that he is undermining and ignoring the house of representatives, the congress of the United States and my own committee where we have sought documents. Hes suing deutsch bank. He said hes going to fight us tooth and nail, and i just dont think that we should impeach him. We should impeach him. There is a story about don mcgahn, the white House Counsel that just broeke right before w came on air, that the white house reached out to him twice, asking him to publicly say the president did not obstruct justice after the Mueller Report was released, and he rebuffed them twice. What do you make of that, and what would you like to hear from him before congress . I would certainly like to hear from him. I think he does have courage. I do think that hes an honest human being who has done the right thing so far when he left, and i would like to have him in Committee Really telling what he knows. Where are things in terms of the lawsuit . There has been escalation obviously theres a sort of parallel thing happening with the Oversight Committee subpoenas that have gone before a federal court and going to expedite that. Do you anticipate something similar with the Deutsche Bank situation . Absolutely. Well go into court and general counsel. Staff will be there, and we believe that we have the opportunity to get the documents. We believe that the court will side with us, and so were pursuing all of those underlying documents and were going to keep doing the investigations. Im chair of the Financial Services committee. Im going to do my work, and im going to do everything that i possibly can. At the same time, i know that there is growing dissatisfaction with this president , and i know that increasingly the numbers are going to change. What surprises me more than anything else is that the republicans, and particularly the right wing, conservative republicans, are not patriotic. They are allowing this president to have this relationship with putin and the kremlin and russia who are our known enemies. They are working with them, and they have not stopped. He will not criticize them. He will not do anything to even deal with the fact that they undermine our election system. That has shocked me. That has surprised me, even though i said nothing does, but the fact that the republicans who claim to be so patriotic, who claim to love this country, are siding with the president and russia against our democracy. That shocks me. All right, congresswoman Maxine Waters. Great to have you. Thank you. Youre welcome. Thank you. Still ahead, the president s efforts to slow walk justice and investigators thwarted. Thats coming up in just two minutes. Ors thwarted thats coming up in just two minutes. What if i wielded the power of the infinity gauntlet. . I could bend reality to my will, with a snap of my fingers i just saved money with geico. I saved hundreds of dollars nice that is a lot of money. The power is exhilarating hahahahahaha hah. Ha. Just got something in my throat. Yea. Marvel studios avengers endgame. In theaters april 26. Its easy to lose track of all the things house departments are seeking and currently not getting from the Trump Administration. One of those things being the financial records of President Trump and his business. Trump filed a lawsuit last month in District Court against over Elijah Cummings and his Accounting Firm arguing that the subpoena for ten years of trumps financial records is, quote, allout political war against trump with subpoenas as the weapon of choice. Its a way for him to run out the clock on congressional oversight. Something happened that was interesting. A judge announced he will fast track on the records saying next week he will decide the full case, not just whether to block the subpoena while the case proceeds. To talk more about this, im joined by jill banks. Great to have you here. Great to be with you. What do you make of this . A lot of people i think were a little surprise bid the judge issuing this ruling. What do you make of that . Im not surprised at all. We have had a lot of expedited hearings during watergate, and i have been tweeting for quite awhile now. We asked to give the information to the House Judiciary Committee on march 1st. On march 26th, they had it. Meaning it had gone through the entire judicial process. It only went up to the court of appeals, and not the Supreme Court. On april 16th, we issued a subpoena for all the tapes of the trial, and on july 26th, the Supreme Court had ruled and the tapes were released and about nine days later, the president had resigned. That was about two months. Almost four. So i guess the point here is that courts can expedite this if they want to, and clearly my takeaway is that the judges understand this is high stakes stuff and that there has to be some resolution of a stalemate between the two branches. Right now, donald trump is effectively eviscerating congress. Checks and balances are being undone, and congress has to act. I really think although i have been very cautious in saying we need factbinding hearings. People need to be educated. We need to have the public know whats going on. We need to see live witnesses, not hear transcripts or have somebody summarizing it, but we are getting to a point the stone walling is way beyond just the Mueller Report. The stonewalling i think you have mentioned, has included immigration. It has included every possible thing. Yep. I cant have witnesses. You cant have information about security clearances that were improper in the white house. Thats the kind of stonewalling that even Richard Nixon wouldnt have thought of. This District Court judge saying you have to comply with the subpoena. They will appeal, right . And probably be stayed pending that appeal, and, you know, go all the way to the Supreme Court. I mean, what strikes me the situation, people say were in a constitutional crisis. To me were not quite there yet because we have a battle between articles 1 and 2, right . And the third branch of government is eventually going to be who resolves it. If the president were to ignore that, that strikes me as a crisis. I agree with you that the real, total end of democracy is if he sits in the white house, locks the doors and says were not getting anything, i dont care what the judge says. Exactly. Were done. There was a moment when the Supreme Court orders nixon to hand over the tapes. There is a moment, if im not mistaken, there is a real open question about whether theyll comply. My memoir will include that fear of, well, whos going to go into the white house and get them . You and which army, right . Exactly. They have guns. They have guards. They have the army. They have the secret service. Are we going to send in the u. S. Marshal . They sort of work for him too. Did you think of this . Yes, we did. Although i have to say in retrospect, i dont think we were ever as seriously worried as i sam right now that the president wouldnt comply. Michael cohen warned us, he wont go quietly in the night if he loses the election. We have serious reason to worry. That would be a constitutional crisis. Do you anticipate that this case will ultimately be consolidated . Whatever happens with this case will be sort of determinative of all of them. There are a bunch of subpoenas out there, that question about or will it be a s subjudicated case by case . This is all on the road to the ultimate implosion and showdown. I think there are now a number of congressional committees that are working together. We even have unbelievably, some bipartisan support where you have requests. There is a way, but i think yes that all these committees will start to Work Together because some need the immigration information. Some need the security clearance information. Some need the information about what really happened to undermine our election. The part one of the Mueller Report. Right. Whereas everybody is focusing on part two. Jill winebanks. Its great to have you in person here in chicago. Its a thrill for you to be here. Up next, the selfproclaimed tariff man and his trade war with china. 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Or the new hot club chicken dijon with black forest ham. The new hot pretzels, only at togos. How far would you go for a togo . I own you, doug. Welcome back. I want to clarify something from earlier in the program. We were talking about politico about the president instructing william barr to investigate biden. It was an interview with the president where he said it would be appropriate in the conditional sense were he to discuss the biden probe with barr. There has been so reporting that perhaps he has already. We dont know that for sure. I want to make sure we got that precise. All right. As of one minute past midnight, the United States raised tariffs on 200 billion worth of chinese goods escalating a trade war between the two nations. Donald trump sent out a barrage of tweets this morning about trade, but talks today ended without an agreement, and it is very unclear what happens next. Both sides appear to want to avoid the worst Case Scenario. Both sides also appear unable to back down. Here to talk with me is the financial chief corporate for axi axios. Im confuse bid thd by the whol. It feels like the apocalypse is around the corner. Its doom, so what does today mean . Today is the beginning of the trade war. Think of this like today is day one of the government shutdown. The worst Case Scenario has happened, and is this a new state of affairs or will one side or another back down, and this will be like this for days or weeks . The United States has slapped tariffs on china. China has announced they have a list of retaliatory tariffs. Do we expect them to announce those . There will be retaliatory tariffs and they will attack things like American Farmers and any manufactured goods that come from red states and powerful numbers of the republican congress. They have done that before, and its hard to see how much more of that they can do. So they might look at other nontariff options as well. No one wants this. The chinese dont want this, and the americans dont want this. It looks like this was just partly a problem of Donald Trumps own making that when he was complaining about the fed keeping Interest Rates too high, the chinese took that understood that to mean that he was worried that the economy was weak and therefore he was in a weak negotiating position, and then everything blew up. I read that story that basically him bullying powell to keep rates low sent a message to the chinese that he was scared the economy was weak which meant they thought he had a weak hand and they strengthened their negotiating position in their mind. The consequence is all the chinese imports will become more expensive because they have this 25 tariff on them. That raises Consumer Prices which raises inflation which makes it harder for j. Powell to cut Interest Rates. Thats a good point, and we have seen them at a lower level, and its been real targeted issues. Particularly farmers and farm exports. How widespread do you anticipate seeing the effects of this . Its going to be everywhere, and honestly its going to be largely invisible. There will be certain goods and services that are going to become more more expensive, and youre not going to be able to just point at one specific thing particularly easily and say, ah. Thats because the tariffs, you know, now i have to pay more for my sneakers. For one or two things he might be able to do that. For the farmed goods and the farm farmers, its very obvious, and they dont want to get a check for the soybeans that they would have otherwise sent to china because what they had was a relationship with china and they would sell soy to china every year for decades, and they had the whole trading relationship there, and getting a check this year or next year isnt going to make up for the fact that they have lost that relationship now, and theres a good chance they will never get it back. So donald trump thinks that he can pay off these farmers. I dont think he can. Yeah. Its a crazy system we have now got tariff and subsidized. Tariff they hurt the exports and they cut a 12 billion check to make up for the tariffs that he himself imposed. Were borrowing that 12 billion from the chinese. In part. I want to read this. This was an anonymous article published all over state media friday or thursday i guess, in Chinese State media. If you want to talk, we can talk. If you want to fight, well fight, saying the Chinese People are polite by nature, yet unafraid of confrontation. We respect afraid to fight back. It seems like a cliche, but its a game of chicken. The cars crashing is the worst for both economies and yet from a tactical standpoint, its important to each of them to not knuckle under. Donald trump is the only president that i can remember who could credibly threaten this kind of tariff on chinese goods. No other president would destroy domestic industry and consumers by doing this kind of thing. Trump loves tariffs. Everyone knows that he loves tariffs and so he can threaten this credibly. So that put him in a weirdly strong negotiating position, but now its, like, hes going to pull the trigger and he has nothing to show for it. Thats a great point. Felix salmon, thank you. That made me understand this better. Thank you. Still ahead, the fight against White Nationalism in american. Ill talk to one former neonazi who is trying to break the cycle of hate. Thats coming up. First, tonights thing one and thing two, thats coming up next. Hts thing one and thing two, thats coming up next ypay for what i need. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Im workin to make each day a little sweeter. To give every idea the perfect soundtrack. To fill your world with fun. To share my culture with my community. To make each journey more elegant. 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Covered by medicare and most major insurers. music throughout i swibecause they let metual, customize my insurance. And as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Thing 1 tonight, donald trump might fancy himself an athlete, but hes not much of a sports guy. This was evidence yesterday when the white house welcomed the boston red sox, socks, but he admires tiger woods or Vladimir Putin. The 66yearold president of russia and hockey phenom, seen here playing in sochi today. Hes number 11 on the legends team, and the other team, well, when you play against putin, you play defense at your own risk. Nobody wants to get themselves dragged out of the arena, so he put the biscuit in the basket eight times today. Reuters reports nine times according to kremlin, a hat trick of hat tricks. If you are on defense, and putin has the puck, you have got some pretty serious life choices to make. After the game, the president took a victory lap around the rink and down he went. Not even putin can ice skate on a red carpet. Someones going to pay for that, but if you think playing hockey against Vladimir Putin is playing life in your own hands, try playing golf with trump. Thats thing 2 in 60 seconds. W. Thats thing 2 in 60 seconds hmm. Exactly. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Nice. But, uh. Whats up with your. Partner . Not again. Limu thats your reflection. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty theres an old saying that people that cheat at golf also cheat at life, and boy does donald trump do both of those things. Hes such a welldocumented prolific cheater that almost nothing could surprise us at this point, except maybe this news story which comes to us from a vox interview with rick riley, the guy who literally wrote the book on trump the golf cheat. This was held last summer while he was out of the country. Meeting with kim jongun in singapore. Sometime later, trump was playing a round when he spotted the guy who won the championship, a businessman named ted virtue. Kind of funny. Trump drives his golf cart over and says to ted, congrats on winning the club championship, but you didnt really win it because i was out of town. He laughed it off, but trump was dead serious. He says, were going to play these last six holes for the championship and teds, like, oh, well, im playing with my son. But thanks anyway. Trump says, its okay. Your son can play too. Both ted and his son hit the ball in the green, but trump hits his in the water. By the time they get to the hole, trump is lining up the sons ball, only now its his ball, and the caddy has switched it. The swon is, like, thats like y wall. The caddy is, like, thats the president s ball. The son stopped arguing about it. Its like playing defense against putin. Its not worth it and thats how the man we elected stole a rin i can dink Golf Championship title. Ampionship title. Problem. I was told to begin my aspirin regimen, and i just didnt listen. Until i almost lost my life. My doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. Be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. Listen to the doctor. Take it seriously. driver relax, its just a bug. Thats not a bug, thats not a bug burke hit and drone. Seen it, covered it. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum since my dvt blood clot i was thinking. Could there be another around the corner . Or could it turn out differently . 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Whats around the corner could be surprising. Ask your doctor about eliquis. When your flight gets in late, its never too early for coffee. Oh no no no. Your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. Who is that ready this early . Its only 7 am. Somebody help me. Close call. Not quite ready to face the day . Thats why were here with free hot breakfast and a warm welcome. Book at hampton. Com for our price match guarantee. Hampton by hilton. The most radical antiabortion bill in the country is still making its way through the Alabama State legislature, due to come up for a final vote next week. Last night we showed you the chaos that erupted as the state Senate Debated the bill. All those in favor say, i. Oh, oh, oh. Motion passes. Committee amend this table. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there was no motion. There was a motion. He made a motion. He didnt even make a motion, mr. President. He did not make a motion. He made a motion at the table. There was no motion from the other side. He made a motion, the table. Senator. Heck no. He didnt even make a motion. So what you were seeing there, democrats were objecting to an effort by the allmale Senate Republicans to ramp removing exceptions for women who are victims of rape and incest from the already extreme abortion ban. The bill would make it a crime for doctors to perform abortions punishable by up to 99 years in prison. Its likely to pass next week and be signed into law by alabamas republican governor. Meanwhile, the same republican lawmakers pushing that bill just proposed another one that would make it a felony to falsely accuse someone of rape or sexual assault. T its already a crime to file a false police report, and if the accused were proven innocent, the person making the allegations could be responsible for paying the accused legal fees. False rape allegations are extremely rare. Its a much more prevalent problem that the vast majority of rapes and assaults never get reported at all. Only about 23 of rapes are actually reported to police, and a tiny number, just. 5 ever lead to felony convictions. There are a lot of reasons why victims dont come forward. Last year, the whole nation watched Christine Blasey ford explain why she never reported being sexually assaulted as a teenager. Bretts assault on me drastically altered my life. For a long time, i was too afraid and ashamed to tell anyone these details. I did not want to tell my parents that i at age 15 was in a house without any parents present drinking beer with boys. I convinced myself that because brett did not rape me, i should just move on and just pretend that it happen. When she finally came forward the man she accused was confirmed to the Supreme Court anyway. 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Theres an active Digital Group of neo nazis who might have come to the movement interested in making bad jokes on an online forum but later find themselves immersed in an antisemitic ideology. Christian pitchelinni has made it his mission to help others escape the life and he noticed certain patterns among those he is trying to help. I have been working with extremists for nearly 20 years. In that time i have noticed the behavior pattern i call cult hopping. It is when Vulnerable People are so desperate to find a sense of identity or purpose that they jump from one extreme group to another. Ideology isnt as important as the desire to belong. Christians efforts to divert young White Supremacists from the path are documented in a series called breaking hate. A second episode airs at 9 00 p. M. Right here on sunday night on msnbc. Joining me is christian, founder of the free radical project helping people to escape. Good to have you here. Thanks, chris. I thought there was an interesting insight that the way the people find themselves into these subcultures isnt necessarily seeking out the ideology of the subculture but seeking out a group that makes them feel like they belong. Yes, nobody is born a hater. So, you know, we all seek identity, community and purpose in life. Theyre the three pillars that essentially allow us to make every decision that we make. And as young marginalized people are looking for identity, community and purpose, if they cant find it, if they have what i call potholes, the traumas in life that they bump into, whether it is poverty or abuse or Mental Illness or it could be a million things, those potholes lead them to the fringes where they find these narratives, and there are people waiting for them. How much of things you were active in a white supremacist group. Yes. You broke away from that and you have done this work for 15 years. How much i mean how much is the phenomenon of people finding these sorts of ideologies through, like, say hate chant and different hate sites, how recent is this and how much does it change over time. I would say the advent of the internet changed the ball game. It made it as if it was a 24hour hate buffet where people could handle it themselves. I was handed a pamphlet where i was brought in physically. Then they are sent to other places where the rhetoric ramps up a little bit more and where they are told certain words and if they dont react in a certain way, if they use the n word recruiters are keyed on whether they can take them further if they start to laugh at the jokes. Thats interesting. Theres a sort of slow process of desensitization, boundary pushing with people. They know theyre not going to recruit everybody. So they cast a wide net and look for the ones that laugh back at the antisemitic jokes or who, you know, arent fazed by them and they tighten the screws on them. It seems in the case of what is happening here it is not an active recruiter. It is almost like a sort of horrible dark organism of people just sort of peertopeer radicalizing each other with no one here who is like, im here from this nazi group. But somebody is putting the propaganda out there. So much of this is coming from Eastern Europe and russia. Really . Yes, tomorrow of the troll farms putting out propaganda, everything from antivaccine stuff, russia has been known to do it since they put out the fraudulent book the protocols of the elders of zion. They are trying to sew seeds of discord and essentially using our own citizens against each other as soldiers in a war. I saw this clip i want to play, which is that people go to train outside the United States, it is fairly common. Take a listen. Hes crying and i said, what is going on . He said, chris, youre not going to believe this. He bought a oneway ticket on lufthansa. He had a fake passport. He bought a fake passport from ireland. 500 it cost him because he thought his u. S. Passport may fail. He arranged for a hostel in kiev. He arranged for a limousine to come to a house and to pick him up. He flushed his money into an account and out the same day. I never saw it. Tell me more about what what was that story . This is the family of a young man who was a white supremacist. He got involved in a White Nationalist group, very dangerous group called adamoff division which is responsible for five murders in the last two years alone. Wow. While he was never violent, he was very close to some of these people, and he was his family not only lost him to this extremist ideology but to an extremist bullet. He was murdered by one of his comrades who ended up going from a neo nazi to isis supporter. Thats what cult hopping is about. Whoa really . Yes. Whoa. What was he doing training in ukraine . He didnt actually make it there. His parents intercepted him, but there have been people just recently the fbi released a statement that four members from charlottesville, people who marched there were stopped coming back from the ukraine, were arrested for training in partisan paramilitary camps that are sending folks to the crimean border. They are right wing, neo fascist groups . This is a neo fascist group modelled after the Panzer Division of nazis. They fly swastika flags on their tanks. Theyre a legitimate Militia Group in the ukraine. Theyre recruiting people to train with them from the United States . Theyre training and being sent to the front in ukraine to fight against pro russian separati separatist. Playing both sides again each other there as well. That is wild. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks, chris. Great to be here. The latest episode of breaking hate has that stuff in it an airs this sunday at 9 00 p. M. Here on msnbc. It is eye opening. Do not miss it. That does it for all in. You can catch us every weeknight at 8 00 on msnbc. Good evening, im Donny Deutsch and im thrilled to be here. There are exactly 542 days until the 2020 president ial election, and tonight the big stories of this week and next. Hey, don, it is the economy, stupid. Can the president ever stay on message about a booming economy . Will his spat with china cost him political points . I will talk to mad moneys jim cramer about those issues and what top ceos think of the president. Constitutional crisis. Whats the playbook for dealing with a lawless president . Theres a lot to cover and this is saturday night politics