Now is for us to have walters call pat gray and just say stay the hell out of this. On the mueller evidence that could be as consequential as the nixon tape. Plus, governor jay inslee on his climate announcement today and the absurdity of the electability when it comes to the democratic primary. All in starts now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Today the president called the man who orchestrated the criminal sabotage in the 2016 election to joke about how they got away with it. Earlier this morning, the president spoke with president putin. They had a very good discussion and spoke for a little over an hour. A week ago, the fbi director warned that russia continued to meddle in the elections and has big plans for 2020. We are very much viewing 2018 as just kind of a dress rehearsal for the big show in 2020. The Mueller Report laid out in excruciating details on how russia perceived they would benefit from a Trump Presidency and they would benefit from information stolen and released through russian efforts and trump took to twitter after the call to dismiss what he called the russian hoax and declined to tell putin not to interfere in 2020. Can you dress the meddling issues that came up with mr. Put snin. We discussed it and he sort of smiled when he said something to the effect that it started off as a mountain and ended up being a mouse. He knew that because he knew there was no collusion whatsoever. Pretty much thats what it was. Did you tell him not to meddle in the next election . Excuse me. Im talking. Im answering this question. You are very rude. So we had a good conversation about many different things. Did you ask him not to meddle . We didnt discuss that. I mean, of course they didnt discuss that. The president was very clearly happy russia interfered last time and every single thing he said and has done since suggests they hope they do it again. Why would he tell them not to . The only possible thin read of an excuse of the behavior of the president and his campaign is that he and his aides were too darn stupid to understand what was happening. That cannot be said now. They know what is happening. They are doing it again. They dont need a secret back channel and messages. Trump colludes out in the open and invites the russians to keep subverting our democracy as long as it benefits trump. Would you now with the whole world watching tell president putin and denounce what happened in 2016 and warn him to never do it again . I have president putin. He just said its not russia. I will say this. I dont see any reason why it would be. I will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. So strong. So powerful in that denial. Trump is even bothering to change the playbook. Part of the strategy, the main part was to leverage russian involvement and sabotage to further a narrative that his o pone cent corrupt. Russiania, if youre listening, i hope you are able to find the 30,000 email that is missing. Now, this just came out. This just came out. Wikileaks. I love wikileaks. He is doing the same thing. Running the same play in front of our ice. This week the New York Times reported that Rudy Giuliani here had theed to get the Ukrainian Government perhaps with understanding of favorable treatment from the white house to reopen an investigation tied to joe bidens son. It is a blatant move to tarnish trumps potential opponent and provide ammo for trump to stand on stage next year at the Republican National convention and lead a chant of lock him up s. Chief of crooked. Com had a piece entitled green light trumps awe thoer carian. What was the thrust of your argument . The thrust is that if i under played one thing, what happened in 2016 happened when trump didnt have the powers of the presidency behind him. He can send rudy julians to have the free lance collusion with any country he wants to play ball. Right now he is most concerned about joe biden. He thinks joe biden has the best chance of beating him and he sends giuliani to gin up Corruption Scandal in ukraine involving joe bidens son. Simultaneously he speaks to william to look into the evidence that. Ukrainian government is collecting on joe bidens son. There can be a u. S. Side investigation and he can say that just like Hillary Clinton was under investigation, joe biden was under investigation. It works on both ends as it did in 2016 with foreign meddling that trump is welcoming or soliciting before our eyes. A federal criminal investigation of his opponent ordered by him in a corrupt by by his attorney general. Heres from that times color. Mr. Trump recently suggested he would like william barr to look into the material gathered by prosecutors for Rudy Giuliani for the ukrainian work and others. This is him turning lock her up into actionable u. S. Abuse of power from the white house against someone he perceives as a political opponent. Thats right. There is no reason judge it cant work. The goal for him is not necessarily to defeat biden in the general election. He probably just doesnt want to have to run against him. If he can get it under way, he can move on to the next candidate and the next candidate. Thats only half of the strategy. The day after he fires comey, he sits down with the Russian Foreign minster and ambassador and say glad we got rid of that. The subtext is okay. What does he do when the Mueller Report comes out and when barr has done his turn and snubbed his nose at the house . He calls Vladimir Putin to be like look, we are on the same page. The cloud has been lifted. A correspondent for gq wrote about what putin has on trump. How do you perceive the call in the broader contours of what seems not any shred back channel. An obvious wink wink nudge nudge about what their shared interests are. The phrasing that he agreed there was no collusion. I have no words. My jaw fell off. Even if i had words, i wouldnt be able to form them. Its stunning that the handcuffs are off and the line in moscow was that trump had his hands bound by the investigation and that he was afraid to talk to putin and afraid to makeovertures to russia and thaw the relationship because of the Mueller Investigation that an overture to russia would look suspicious. All the constraints are off and this is the result. It was inevitable that Something Like this was not a phone call. It was just a phone call. It wasnt our president standing next to the head of a foreign adversary and saying i trust him. Although im sure thats coming. To think about what we are seeing happen, this me this is a green light. A clear green light. A targeted pointing of russia, you want to direct the resources, go snoop around bidens inbox. It seems so obvious from the context that this is happening in front of everyones faces. What just happened . Robert mueller released the report that didnt necessarily say what happened in 2016 was legal, but you can get away with it if you are just helter skelter enough about it. He doesnt have a disincentive from congress. He doesnt want to meet the degree of abuse of power that he is demonstrating with power of their own. Republicans in congress are united seemingly for the purpose of keeping democrats fractured against doing an impeachment. Last time it helped him win the presidency. I dont find myself surprised by it, given the backdrop. Thats just where we are. This is the worst Case Scenario and its playing out within the two week that is the Mueller Report came out. We were all wondering what would happen in 2020 if this is what the russians did in 2016. In 2016 it was unclear. Why it was innia or putins interest to elect donald trump . Now we know. Today they talked about opening up trade and investment. Money, money, money. Trump said at this press conference, he wants to do more business with russia. We barely have any business with russia. We have a lot of sanctions with russia, right . In part because of what putin did in 2016. Now again, the gloves are off and constraints are off and he can say i will trade with you and lift sanctions. Now its clear why putin wants to see a second term of donald trump. Not in the sense that he is constrainted that he is constrainted by the people who work for him and congress. The National Security a apparatus now. Mattis and tillerson are gone. H. R. Mcmaster is gone. John bolton trying to go to war with venezuela. Yeah, but i think if its clean john bolton, i worry. The money is on putin. Brian and julia, thank you both for being with me. I want to turn to one of the House Democrats figuring out how to deal with this. A member of the Judiciary Committee. Let me ask you an abstract question, but i would love for you to answer it was any president ordering an investigation of a political opponent would be impeachable . I summer think that to the extent that the president of the United States is ordering a criminal investigation into a political opponent and doing so with corrupt intent, i would think that would be something that could be potentially impeachable. The New York Times that the president urged to look into, the findings by the ukrainian prosecutor and we can see barr as essentially a lead blocker for the president. How concerns are you about the integrity of the department of justice. Im deeply concerned. Whattid would say, i read brians article and the underlying premises is to say that congress has a constitutional obligation and sfomt hold the president accountable and absent doing so, one can worry about whether or not we are setting a dangerous precedent for not just this president for his time in office, but future president s. You see this, by the way, happening in realtime with respect to the way in which the attorney general handles the events of the past 30 days. The misleading statements he made in front of congress and efforts to mislead the American Public about the findings and conclusions of the Mueller Report. Leading up to snubbing and not showing up to the hearing before our committee, the Judiciary Committee in the house yesterday and ignoring a lawful and duly issued subpoena issued by the Judiciary Committee for the full un redacted Mueller Report for congress. At the end of the day, we will have to take steps to ensure we hold this administration accountable. We should proceed with a contempt citation absent his willingness to engage in good faith. The chairman made a last effort to try to get the attorney general to see the light. Two questions. One is how much of barrs actions changed minds within the democratic members. Are you responding and is it moving what you are thinking about what you may have to do based on his actions . Yes. I think it is impacting not just the way in which i approach the work ahead, but other members in the congress. I would also say the American Public, i had a lot of conversations with folks who are just completely disturbed by the obstruction of dhang this administration and attorney general seem to be engageded in. You hit the nail on the head. Sorry anybody talking about impeachment against barr . I asked that because its not just for the president of the United States and both of these have been used at different times in history. There is a question of how barr is held accountable. Is that something people are discussing . There have been a number of people in the caucus who called for the proceedings to commence. As you know, being a history buff of sorts, the last time that happened, it has been 150 years since an official has been impeached. From my vantage point, the most important part of our work is twofold. Exact compliance from the department of justice. You follow the next step and issue a subpoena to the attorney general so he appears before the committee and answers the question we are authorized to pose to him. Secondarily and more importantly, doing everything we can to make sure special counsel appears so he can talk to the american people. Im concerned to your point about the prospect for meddling in the next election by a foreign adversardversary, prima russia. Its important for the special counsel to have the opportunity to detail the findings that he multiimately reached in volume one of the report. Because of the confusion created boo the attorney general, they have been lost to some extent in the last few weeks. You confident thaw will have mueller before your committee . Essential hope so and we will take every legal step that we can to ensure we hear from the special counsel. I hope that the department of justice would not engage in the type of obstruction they have already engaged in. Obviously we will have to see in the next i hope that happens in short order. There will be more to share, we hope, next week. Thank you for being with me. Thank you, chris. Robert muellers equivalent of the watergate tapes, perhaps. The notes taken by a white house aid. What the insider account told us about the president s actions in two minutes. President s acts in two minutes just listen. vo theres so much we want to show her. We needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. avo subaru outback. Ninety eight percent are still on the road after 10 years. Come on mom, lets go when you rent from national. Its kind of like playing your own version of best ball. Because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if its a better car class than the one you reserved. So no matter what, youre guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter] vo go national. Go like a pro. See what i did there . The latest inisnt just a store. Ty its a save more with a new kind of Wireless Network store. Its a look what your wifi can do now store. A get your questions answered by awesome experts store. Its a now theres one store that connects your life like never before store. The xfinity store is here. And its simple, easy, awesome. It. Comedy of errors. The happenless burch that happened. The white house released a transcript of the socalled smoking gun tape that showed Richard Nixon plotting the cover up. Three days later he decided to resign from the presidency. It has been an open question whether Robert Mueller would be able to find such evidence if it existed. The president is known not to write emails and doesnt maintain a secret recording system. Good lord. Mueller may have found the next best thing. Extensive notes taken by annie donaldson. Carol joins me now. Tell us about annie donald son and what role she plays. Shes a loyal lawyer, diehard conservative, a person who came into the white house with every goal of trying to help donald trump implement his agenda, but also very loyal to don mcgahn, the white House Counsel who she followed into the administration. She was an associate of his and was the person he managed to tab the office and be a scribe for important moments in the oval office that were very disconcerting to don began. Why were the notes taken. My sense is there is a culture of notetaking memorializing memos. Why . I actually differ with this a little bit. I heard a lot of people talking about the reasons people take notes. Good lawyers take notes. They all take notes. Its like being a reporter. You cant remember what someone told you and whats important unless you write it down. There were people who tried to memorialize events by a mem tow file ease comeys term. He was worried he was going to need a contemp rainious record of what he and the president discussed. In this case mcgahn is definitely trying to keep a record along with his chief of staff, annie donaldson. It surely is to show the efforts to keep the president within the guardrails, so to speak. To avoid the impulses that lead him to do things that look criminal. Certainly that was part of the motive, but the other is basic. Annie had to keep notes. And how key are these notes . To what mueller was able to find and what we learned . The notes are important in at least two of the episodes out of ten that mueller investigated. He found or his team found evidence to bring a case of obstruction in four of the 10 episodes they investigated. Annies notes are important, but particularly two involving don began. The first is in june of 2017 when the president is urging don twice and two phone calls to his home, urging him to reach out to the justice departments senior most officials and tried to help remove and argue that Robert Mueller should be removed as special counsel. He has conflicts of interest. Mcgahn doesnt think it makes any sense and he is trying to explain to the president , you dont want to do this. It is going to look like you are trying to knock off mueller. The second is in february of 2018. When the president angrily summons mcgahn to his office and said the New York Times is reporting that and now the Washington Post as well is reporting i ordered you to fire mueller. I never did that. I want you to correct the record. Don mcgahn stands his ground and said im sorry, thats how i took it. Those notes of annies are important because they help that don was sticking with that. There is contemporaneous recordings that was part of the key evidence of these two of ten incidents of possible obstruction. The two that have substantial evidence. President s intent. From the Washington Post, great piece. Thank you very much. Thank you, chris. President ial candidate jay inslee on one of the most important issues. His new climate proposal is next. His new climate proposal is next if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. Ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. Humira can help stop the clock. Prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. Vo humira can lower your ability to fight infections. 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And work. And work. And yes we did say organic. For twice the bounty, guaranteed. Miraclegro performance organics. Organics finally grow up. And up, and up. You inspired us to create internet that puts you in charge. That handles anything. That protects whats important. And reaches everywhere. This is beyond wifi. This is xfi. Simple, easy, awesome. I decided on my death bed i wanted to be able to look at my three grand kidses in the eye and tell them i did everything humanly possible to rescue them from the monster of Climate Change. That means running for president of the United States. Washington governor and democratic candidate for president jay inslee in california on a bold plan to radically decarbonize the American Economy over the next two decades. A new poll shows the primary elect is focused like never before on the issue. 82 of democrats listed it as a top priority, the highest number for any single issue. His plan is aggressive. He would mandate that all electric issue needs to be emissionfree by 2035. Washington governor and 2020 candidate, jay inslee. What are the main ideas behind the plan . This is a big, bold, ambitious plan. We are a big, bold, and ambitious nation. Its a can do nation. It needs a can do president. It is based on success and based on the success i had as governor passing clean electrical grid bill for energy efficiency. Passing a bill to eliminate super pollutants and we need success. Second is based on a multis multisectoral basis. It doesnt happen to have dreams of future proposals. This is concrete. These are rules. These are endorsable and this is based on my two decades of work. I think we are ready for business. Talk about the enforceable rules. Is there a hard cap that fades in overtime. There is a lot of talk of carrots and talk of sticks that have gotten out of fashion. Its hard to see decarbonizing without them. We have a regulatory cap that are legally enforceable. We know the scientific reality is we are not going to be able to burn coal forever. We have a hard cap in my state in 2025. So that we will not have coalbased power. We have a cap that requires 100 Clean Electricity without fossil fuels in 2035. We have a hard cap that we wont have at least not without biofuels in 2030 to be sold after that date. These are enforceable and we need it. 2035. Is that a technically feasible thing. Forget about the country. Talk about your state of washington. Can you get rid of every nonrenewable source or carbon emitting source and keep the lights on in washington in 30 years . You bet. Heres the reason why. We have to understand how innovative and adept of a country we are. Heres an example. We had another threat decades ago called fascism. In 1940, we built 77 jeeps. Four years later we built 640 thousand jeeps. Thats what we can do when we put our minds to it. Jobs and Renewable Energy are growing twice as fast. We need to break the strangle hold and stop the 27 billion of giveaways and get down to business. I know we can do it. You have run as a climate candidate. When you are out on the trail, i happen to think its the most important issue in a historical sense, but people have all sorts of stuff. You have an undocumented uncle who might get rounded up and health care bills. What are interactions on the trail like. Peoples general sense of what they want out of a president. What they want you to talk about versus the climate. They want somebody to defeat Climate Change. This is not one issue, but all the issues. The economy where we are suffering billions of dollars in damage. I have a portfolio of success, the first guy to stand up against the muslim ban. I sued him 21 times now. The highest minimum wage. Im the first to passe longterm care plan. Big teacher pay increases. Virtually everything many of the candidates are suggest i accomplished in my state. Thats the advantage of being a goff mvernor who can get things done. The advantage of being governor with two democratic senators. My first four years. You now have both. Some of this happened since you flipped them. We need to get rid of the filibuster that. Artifact would stop us cold from getting Climate Change and i hope more of the other candidates will follow my lead on this. We need someone who can get things done. The biggest education package. Let me stop you right there. Is Anything Possible on climate at the scale and scope necessary that you agree on. Is Anything Possible with this Republican Party at the federal level in. There may be things we can do and we might be able to find ways to sequester carbon in top soil and trees in the Forest Products industry. Those might have bipartisan success. Look, we have to get the republicans to lead and follow and let out of the way. They are not leading and following. They need to get out of the way and let us move forward to the nations destiny to build a clean energy economy. Jay inslee, governor of washington state. Thanks for making the time. Thank you. The idea of a candidates electability is nonsense . I will make my case ahead. A future candidate talking to youths about cocaine. Thats thing one, thing two, next. Cocaine thats thing one, thing two, next [beep] you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. And you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. But youre not mad, because you have e trade which isnt complicated. Their tools make trading quicker and simpler. So you can take on the markets with confidence. Dont get mad. Get e trade and start trading today. Run with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. Beacuse changing your attachments, should be as easy as. What about this . Changing your plans. Yeah. Run with us. Search john deere 1 series for more. You wouldnt accept an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist. You can barely feel. Applebees bigger, bolder grill combos. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. When you start with a better thats no way to treat a dog. You can do no wrong. Where did you learn that . The internet. Yeah . Mmm with no artificial preservatives or added nitrates or nitrites, its all for the love of hot dogs. Discover. Hi, whats this Social Security alert . Its a free alert if we find your Social Security number on the dark web. Good, cuz im a little worried about my information getting out. Oh, whys that . [bird speaking] my Social Security number is. 8 7 5 dash okay, i see. [bird laughing] is that your daughter . No, its a macaw. And his name is timothy. Timmy, want a cracker . Timmy, do you want a cracker . [bird speaking] what do you think, kevin . No. Sign up online for free. Discover Social Security alerts. Thing one tonight, it may only be 2019, but the 2020 campaign is starting to get ugly. Old videos are dug up and perhaps none more shocking than this clip from the night of the New Hampshire primary, 2016. The repositories of things that people love and trust and the fairness of the game is doubted by large majorities of americans that has to do with stag nating american. You see this with trumps closing messages and railing against pharmaceutical. I slipped up and called him bernie sandwiches. Howard fineman was in the line of my sight eating a big pastrami sandwich and i was a little hungry. The good news is it did lead to one of the great iphone games of all time. You have to go back way earlier than 2016. Thing two in 60 sblgds. 2016. Thing two in 60 sblgds were oscar mayer deli fresh and you may know us from. Your very first sandwich, your mammoth masterpiece. And. Whatever this was. Because we make our meat with the good of the deli and no artificial preservatives. Make every sandwich count with oscar mayer deli fresh. Nueven if you try to eat well,. You might fall short in key nutrients. Get more by adding one a day. Its the 1 multivitamin uniquely designed for men and women. One serving, once a day. One a day. And done. Long before he was a senator and president ial candidate, Bernie Sanders was a congressman and mayor of burlington, vermont. He decided the best way to get his message out was to bypass the media and be the media. He had Cable Access Television and a weekly show called bernie speaks with the Community Going around burlington and talking to people like the time he chatted about comp fwhichl a couple of teens in the mall. Im kind of ann arkist, but communism doesnt bother me with no freedom of enterprise. Then everybody gets a chance to live and be safe, you know . When it goes as far as cutting down peoples freedom of speech, you know, thats not i dont feel thats right. Distinguishing between what you mean as true communism as opposed to the soviet union . Yeah. When you say i need to see more of that, the folks paid to have nearly 30 hours of it dimmingitized. Bernie talks to young kids about the dangers of smoking. Does anyone know what cocaine does to you . Yes it screws up your mind and your body. What about smoking cigarettes. Who here smokes . Raise your hand . Other than your parents, who smokes . I have seen a lot of kids who were 12 and 11 smoking. I dont smoke because im a little kid only 5 years old. Little kid only 5 years old. Run with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. Beacuse changing your attachments, should be as easy as. What about this . Changing your plans. Yeah. Run with us. Search john deere 1 series for more. [woman] with sharks duo clean, i dont just clean, yeah. Ru with us. 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I havent found anyone who will raise their hand and say i dont want to be forgiven for anything i have done ever. One of the Great Stories is people coming out to vote in florida across party lines to reenfrance chiz felon who is served their time. Won by nearly 65 , the super majority as one of the morgueinizers. Florida Voting Rights coalition spearheaded by a republican and democrat advocated for restoration of Voting Rights. That was the win. The second was republican lawmakers in the floater statehouse trying to undo it. They came up with the idea that when the amendment restores the right to all term of their sentence including parole or probation, they should add court fees and restitution. It was not in the tax of people on the ballot that 65 of people voted for. It puts at a minimum, tens of thousand thousands of people at risk for having the newly reenstated right to vote stripped away. The gop Florida House and they passed a compromise bill to give a judge the digression to dismiss the fees and fines to community service. That process could bag log courts, not to mention the cost to petition a court with a person just released back in society having served their time. Advocates like desmond mead are calling on the republican governor to veto this bill. Keep in mind without the bill, 1. 4 million felon who is completed their sentence would be free to vote. Critics are rightly calling this bill a modern day poll tax, paying money to vote. Thats along with felon disenfranchisement. Its yet another example of how republicans in the modern movement are maximally dead set against expanding access and making sure that everyone can vote and they are making sure that some people cant. That some people cant alright, and you want to make sure to aim it. Im aiming it. Ohhhhhhh i ordered it for everyone. 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You can do no wrong. Where did you learn that . The internet. Yeah . Mmm with no artificial preservatives or added nitrates or nitrites, its all for the love of hot dogs. [kno king] memories. What we deliver by delivering. New poll out this week showing democratic contenders head to head against donald trump. They got a fair bit of play yesterday. It is still early, early in the race. The poll suggests one thing you can take away. Donald trump is surprisingly weak for on incumbent given the economy. The state of the economy right now. The poll also shows the main Democratic Candidates largely falling within broadly the same range against the president. Makes you question the recent drum beat of electability particularly since joe biden entered the race. 538 noted, democrats think biden is electable but not everyones first choice which leads to one big question as democrats discuss this increasingly, does anyone know what electability means . Here to mull that over, Danielle Moody mills. Democratic pollster and strategist, cornell belcher, and msnbc National Correspondent steve kornacki. Steve, let me start with you. Do you think it is lets just start with the concept, it is a coherent concept to begin with . H. It can be. One thing that happens with electability, you often take the candidate you want to win for other reasons, you then say, hey, by the way, this candidate can win. I think thats a big part of it. But ive seen examples in the past, famous one i can remember, you go back to bush mccain, 2000 on the republican side. I remember mccain by the end of that race when he really kind of caught fire was clearly outpolling bush against al gore, the democratic candidate that year. Mccain tried to make the case for republicans, you could look at the number and it was clear as day mccain had a stronger chance. Bush was slightly ahead of gore in those polls. Republican voters ultimately decided, hey, you know what, even in the face of a clear electability scenario, we prefer bush for oather reasons. Heres my feeling, danielle, about electability. Its only relevant at extreme parts of the spectrum. If democrats are like were going to make Anthony Weiner our nominee for president , thats a bad idea from an electability standpoint. I everybody would agree. Once you get toward the people in the discussion, do you think theres distinguishable different sha differentiation there . They dont. I talk to people every day on sirius xm, tell me i dont care what the democratic nominee is, i need somebody who can beat trump. When we talk about ele electability theyre saying i want to vote for the electable one. They just want to vote for someone. I dont think anyone has any clear or distinguished idea of what that looks like. Everyone is excited about Kamala Harris after her presentation this week and stumping barr. At the end of the day, okay, can she go the long haul . Everybody likes biden until you find out in 2015, he thinks cheney is a decent guy. War criminal. I dont know what we mean when we say lebelectable. Democratic voters are thinking about it a lot but it ends up being a strange game of meta mental modeling of what do other voters think about who they would vote for, not me . So you have you have all these voters out there making these really, you know, straightforward, rational, decisions, and in the real world, that doesnt happen. I work for a guy in 08 who h hhad, you know, was a fresh was a new senator with a funny sounding name, barack obama. He certainly was not electable. Hillary clinton was certainly the most electable candidate there. Listen, i think through the process of you running for president and you telling your story and putting your narrative out there, you are bringing more people youre bringing more people to you. I hate the story about electability because i really do hate the story about electability because it makes all the voters think that like us, like political strategists, pundit on television. Right. They dont. Theyre thinking with their pocketbooks, with their hearts, thinking with their values and that matters most. You do end up with one of the things i encountered this as a political reporter, steve, i wonder if you do, too, youll end up with pundit voters. These are the people that are the most high interest, the people that are going to a des moines event, right . Early in the caucus season. Youll ask them a question and theyll answer, like, well, i think joe biden can really appeal in the southwest pennsylvania where theyre just, like, spouting back some punditry they read somewhere. St unclea its urn clenclear, what do yo think . I think thats a totally legitimate thing for activists, primary voters to do. In the old days, these are party primaries. Matter r parties need to think strategically. Implement the partys agenda. Asking which candidate is most likely to win seems a reasonable thing. The electability question, its always to me yoin get closer to the election, not april the year before, when youre in the election year, if theres a clear difference in the poll thats interesting. Right. One of the candidates running 12 points better than trump thats a good point. Its not a crazy question to ask, who has a better chance, but its a better question to answer with some data which we dont have in any reliable sense right now. We dont have any reliable data. And frankly, what we know about the candidates that are running right now is that theres a large bloc of people we dont know anything about. Looking at everyones past, you know, votes and past legislation that they or just name recognition. Or fact we just like joe biden. I keep asking is that a nostalgia vote or an actual real vote . Does america just need a hug right now from somebody that they like and know or do they really think that joe biden can be up to the task, right . In this particular time and not just a good throwback. Thats a question a lot of people are asking themselves right now specifically about joe biden. Also the biden question to me, cornell, one of the things thats dangerous, relates to what steve just said about how far out we are, the polling right now, it doesnt matter until you go through the crucible of the fight. Yes. Everyone saw Hillary Clinton was the most popular politician in america at one point and, you know, of course that didnt last because there was an entire machinery that was set up to pull that number down. And so right now pointing to anything seems a little bit ridiculo ridiculous. Well, we, we spend well, 2008, we spent millions and millions of dollars, in fact, to pull that number down. Thats called a campaign. Right. I think the electable thing i think if youre joe bidens campaign, this electable stuff is problematic because a lot of your predicate was built on im the guy whos most electable, im the guy whos going to bring back the blue wall, et cetera, et cetera. And today although this poll is a small sample size, but its getting a lot of press, but today, that argument, that predicate by the biden campaign, looks a lot weaker against this field when everyone on this in the field is basically beating donald trump. I think it speaks more to how how poorly positioned the incumbent here is. But to your point, theres going to be a campaign over the next couple months and none of this really means anything until these candidates start spending millions upon millions of dollars to move voters. Theres also this i want to read this marco rubio quote. The other thing that looms over all this is that donald trump is president of the United States. Right. This is rubio february 28th, 2016, can the we cwe cannot be party that nominates one who does not condemn White Supremacists and the kkk. Good point, marco. Not only is that wrong, it makes h him unelectable. Mark penn memo for the Hillary Clinton campaign, obama is unelectable except perhaps my favorite one of these, jerry brown in 1992 could ekauld bill clinton the Humpty Dumpty candidate. He had a point at that point. The guy who had been through crazy ska crazy scandals, really, this guy . We like him. That is the problem. People end up because you feel like no one actually knows what this thing is, particularly this early on, its wielded as a cudgel to either on behalf of someones favorite part of the favorite candidate or against other candidates or along lines of sort of race and gender, right, so you end up with this patrolling rod that doesnt actually tell you what is going on. So you should just vet who you like. Thats my no, im serious. Yes. Vote for who you want to be president of the United States. Thats what you should do, america. Yes. Its a crazy idea. Danielle moody mills, cornell bel belcher, steve kornacki, thank you, all. Thats all in for this ev evening. The Rachel Maddow show begins now. A blunt one that im onboard with. A hot take. Partisan to tell people to vote who day want to be president. Have a great weekend, my friend. Thank you. Thanks to you at home for joining us. Happy friday. In july of last year, Robert Mueller and the special counsels office indicted a dozen Russian MilitaryIntelligence Officers for their role in carrying out the russian governments attack on our 2016 election. And the timing of when that indictment dropped seemed like maybe somebody was making a point because three days later, trump was set to meet