Happening in the United States. Then, new details about the anticlinton leaks from the fbi. Good fbi agents, brought this to our attention. And guess who got offered russian dirt on Hillary Clinton . This guy shows up wearing a hat and a trump tshirt. He makes this offer. All in starts right now. Good evening from new york. This is what it sounds like. New audio recording first obtained by prorepublican revealed for the first time what the Trump Administrations policy of separating children from their parents at the border actually sounds like. That audio came from civil rights attorney jennifer har berry who says it was recorded by a client who wants to remain anonymous. The audio has not been authenticed by msnbc news. The children on that recording who appear to have been at that facility for less than 24 hours are reportedly estimated to be between 4 and 10 years old. What has been done to them has set off a moral crisis and emergency as the Trump Administration lies and obfuse indicates about its child separation policy. The white house is demanding we accept conflicting stories. That its sanctioned by the bible. Three that its actually a bad policy imposed by democrats and four, that the policy simply does not exist. Thats according to Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen who tweeted last night, we do not have a policy of separating families at the border, period. Today, however she defended that policy from the white house podium. It is the exclusive product of loopholes in our federal immigration laws that prevent illegal immigrant miners and family members from being detained and removed to their home countries. In other words, these loopholes create a functionally open border, apprehension without detention and removal is not border security. The president likewise has tried to have it both ways blaming the policy on democrats while simultaneously defending it as a necessity. I say its very strongly the democrats fault. Theyre obstruction. They really obstructionists and they are obstructing. The United States will not be a migrant camp and it will not be a refugee holding facility. It wont be. The president appears to be lying to the public about intentional decisions that he made and that his administration took. And we know they made those decisions on purpose because we on this very show exclusively reported way back in february of 2017 that the department of Homeland Security was considering a plan to separate women and children after theyve been detained. At the same time, just shortly after we brought you that reporting, then secretary john kelly laid out explicitly the rational. Yes, i am considering in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network, i am considering exactly that, they will be well cared for as we deal with their parents. But you understand how that looks to the average person who is, you know its more important to me, wolf, to try to keep people off of this awful network. Jeff sessions announced with great fanfare at a public press conference a new, quote, zero tolerance policy for unauthorized immigrants in april and we hear it all again, obtained internal Border Patrol documents appearing to refer to the plan calling it a quote, prosecution initiative. White house adviser Stephen Miller explained the initiative with the the new york times, quote, it was a simple decision by the destination to have a zero tolerance policy. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law. Lets bring in Julia Ainsley and phillip rucker. Phillip, ill start with you. I believe i saw you today in that briefing with Kirstjen Nielsen. The white house is saying we didnt do this and heres why were doing this, sometimes in the same sentence. Yeah and its just not true that they didnt do this. This is a decision by the white house to implement this policy of enforcing the law of having Border Agents down in texas and elsewhere separating families, detaining children and what amount frankly to metal cages and this is a decision that theyve been implementing for several weeks now and the president has the authority and the power as president to stop it if he chooses. Julia, youve been reporting on this for a while. You also reported on the internal deliberations and the fact that this was something people talked about, memos were written about and they debated what a moral monstrosity this would be. The factors at play here under the Trump Administration are the same factors that were at play under the Obama Administration when they saw that surge in 2014 of women coming with their children. They tried to keep them all in one place and you cant hold children longer than 20 days, so when they released the parents, they released them with their children because you couldnt hold them that long. Their answer to that was ankle monitors so they could monitor people before they came to court. In this case theyve taken a different approach and that is to separate them, of course, because you can hold the parents longer while you release the children. But it is also true that there is more underlying this as you pointed out from that reporting over a year ago, this is not just because they want to be tough on illegal border crossings, it is because theyre going after this specific population, families who want to claim asylum. They had a hard time figuring out how to solve that and they decided that this would be the greatest deterrent. Whether or not that is actually working is hard to say. We saw the numbers from may when this started in early may. The numbers are still very high. A lot of people are doing the threat assessment and deciding that its harder to stay at home. I just watched an interview with a gentleman whos on a bridge seeking asylum whos been turned back 15 times, who was shot 7 times, beaten within an inch of his life and lost an eye. Hes camped out on a bridge because hes made a determination that whatever happens to him is better than where he came from. Julia . So i spoke today to former u. S. Director and former directors of different agencies under the Obama Administration who encountered these same problems and they say precisely the reason why they didnt go to this extreme, number one, is its a humanitarian issue, but that they were fleeing such conditions. They didnt need a deterrent policy like this at the border because there really was nothing they could do that would be bad enough from what they were fleeing at home. Thats right. You get into a competition with ms13 over how poorly you can treat some people so you can effectively deter them. The politics of this are interesting. All the polling today has this at about a 66 27 opposed. Congressional republicans freaking out. Ted cruz introducing a bill to stop it. Every sort of in dangered house member of the republican side saying they hate it. What is going on politically right now between congress and the white house . The attitude in the white house is very different, at least in the oval office where the president is defiant. He thinks any time were talking about immigration, it is a political win for him. Remember, hes so concerned about losing his base. This is why again and again he returns to immigration. He talks about the border wall. He talks about rounding up immigrants and being tough on them and enforcing these laws and tough on criminals and he talks about ms13 gang members because hes trying to secure his Political Base and hes in continual fear that hes going to be seen as weak somehow on immigration and the border and so hes digging in here. Hes been counseled by Stephen Miller his Senior Policy Adviser whos very much a hardline proponent of this policy as well as the attorney general Jeff Sessions and theres no indication that hes going to back away. I was talking to one senior official last night in the white house who said, i said is the president reacting to these images to what hes seeing on tv. We know he watches so much tv news and is he reacting to this and this official says, no, he thinks the media is cherry picking these images and the president s aides are bringing him pictures showing these detained pictures smiling and playing games and running around outside and he thinks its a much happier environment than is being portrayed in the media. Gosh. First of all, i have to take a moment just to absorb that. It aligns with some things im hearing from dhs. I was talking to a senior official there today and this morning he said, things are imploding over here. I said, what do you mean . Is there a change in policy . We were getting ready for these briefings today at the National Sheriffs association and she came to the white house. I was thinking are they going to give an announcement that could change this policy instead, they said, no were digging in our heels because we think the problem is messaging. The American People just dont understand. I have a solution for everyone. The president and the Stephen Miller should go down to the border and take the role of physically separating, 2 and 3yearolds while the cameras roll. Julia and phillip, thank you both. Thank you. Every single Senate Democrat has now signed on to a bill introduced by Dianne Feinstein to bar the Trump Administration from splitting up families. While some republicans have spoken out, not a single one has endorsed feinsteins legislation. If the democrats would sit down instead of obstructing, we could have something done very quickly. Good for the children, good for the country. Whats happening is so sad, is so sad and it can be taken care of quickly, beautifully and well have safety. Senator Dianne Feinstein is a democrat from california, Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary committee. Senator, you have a bill that would, quote, take care of it. Whats your reaction to the president s words today . Big crocodile tears. Theres no bill that merits this, that orders this. Its his order. He can stop it in a minute if he chooses to do so, and i guess thats one of the things that annoys me the most. You have nearly 2,500 children that have been separated from their families from their mother and no one knows where they are. I think its just terrible. Its very upsetting and its never happened before, and then the president gets on tv and really its dreadful. Let me ask you this. There are 49 cosponsors, the entirety of the democratic caucus, if im not mistaken. Correct. Thats right. No republicans on it so far. What are they saying when you approach them . Well, theyre looking at it. We have three or four who are taking a good look at it and i hope they would. I mean im open to changes. Its pretty benign. Its very simple. It just prohibits the taking of a child, except for certain specific circumstances, which are laid out in the legislation. I want to play you what Susan Collins said about why shes not cosponsor the legislation. Shes obviously a person i think people would anticipate would be a possible get for you. I want you to listen and give your response to her reasons. Take a listen. Her legislation is not the answer. Its far too broad. It would essentially prevent arrests within 10,000 miles within the border even if the person has commit aid serious crime or suspected of terrorist activity. So that is not the answer. What i have done is worked with a Bipartisan Group of senators. I think we should try again. We should not give up. It is important that we enact immigration reform. Is that true . Im sorry, is what true . That it would not allow arrests within the 100 if that bother susan, well take it out. Thats easy. Thats easy. So then tell me this. What is the end game here from your perspective . It seems to be that the white house quite explicitly is using these children as hostages to get democrats to give in to a variety of demands they have on restricting Legal Immigration as part of a legislative package. Is that something youre willing to entertain . Well, i think thats exactly right. Of course, were willing to entertain a legislative package if it makes sense, but dont hold children hostage. I mean you dont have to take 2,500 children from their parents to get support for something. Thats bizarre. Its hard for me to believe that even President Trump would want to do that. Its just bizarre. Pretty clearly he does want to do it or at least his advisers do. You have john kelly talking about how its a deterrent, you have miller giving on the record quotes, you have jgs saying the roman 13 commands us to obey the laws of man in a godly fashion. There does seem to be a part of this administration that knows what theyre doing. This is the United States of america. It isnt nazi germany and theres a difference, and we dont take children from their parents until now and i think its such a sad day. People are so upset. I just read a wonderful letter to the editor by laura bush. I cant believe that this is happening in the United States, and the president insists so we, of course, will do everything we can to pass a bill which would prohibit this. Just so im clear about this, basically theyre saying were now going to prosecute everyone who crosses illegal for whatever reason. When we prosecute them we have to take them away from their children because thats the processing method that were using. How does a legislation address that . Well, the legislation does not address that. What it says is, that you cannot specifically remove a child from their parent for no reason other than the fact that theyre crossing the border. I see. And thats where that is. Senator feinstein, thank you very much for joining me. Thank you very much, chris. Up next, inside an American Government facility where kids are torn away from their parents and the new efforts to mobilize against this policy. Mattress is dangerously racing isnt the only and with godaddy, im making my ideas real. With godaddy you can get a website to sell online. And it will look good. I made my own way. Now its time to make yours. Everything is working just like it should we got our first look at the family separation crisis. Reporters were allowed into a processing facility for immigrants in texas. Its where many children are taken from their parents. Thats the moment when it happens and sent to separate facilities. Now reporters were not allow today film inside. What youre seeing now are government provided images. Still, you can see the chainlink fencing used to pen in immigrants. Msnbcs own jacob was one of the ones who got a look inside the facility. Jacob, what did you see in there . Reporter its worse than it looks in the photos, chris, because you dont see really the wide shot of the kids in the cage by themselves in the numbers we saw, and this is the place right here. Its the mccallan Border Patrol processing station. More people were separated here than anywhere else. Dianne feinstein, 1,100 of them were separated right here in this sector and it is its sick tong see. Little kids, if they say 4yearold is the youngest that are separated from their parents. But heres the thing. Its the stress thats being placed on the officer and agents inside and only four social workers in there when we took the tour yesterday that have to care for these kids that are increasing in numbers on a daily basis that are separated from their parents. They have a manpower issue and some of these kids might sit here for 24 hours before theyre picked up by hhs, little kids, 4 years old and theyre on their own. My understanding is the separation these officers are doing the separating and putting them in a separate part of the facility behind one of those chainlink fences and theres just a bunch of five and four and six and 7yearolds with a guard looking at them . Reporter so heres what we found out. The way the separation actually works is, legally you can be in here for up to 72 hours. The physical separation happens when the parent is brought to the Processing Center on the way out the door. The parent doesnt know if theyre going to go with their kid or if theyre going to be prosecuted at this point because theyre not doing 100 family separation prosecutions yet. They may not get to say goodbye. The parent goes to processing and there are so many people being processed that theres virtual processing sometimes through Video Conference with agents and other facilities. Theyre not physical humans in here and you get a piece of paper that you put on the air the other night that says, all right, youre getting charged right now. Call this number and this is how youre going to find your child after you come back from court. Thanks for the invaluable reporting. Well be in texas tomorrow night for a live audition of all in from the border. Well have a live report from the epicenter. Please make sure to join us now. I understand youve been working with groups on an event planned in opposition. We are absolutely ready to have a mass mobilization. This is the first time were talking about it right here on the show. Its on june 30th at 11 00 at lav fy yet park at the white house. We have hundreds of organizations being anchored by the National DomesticWorkers Alliance and move on, but hundreds of organizations that are part of the familys belong together coalition because we see the outrage and we see that this has to be taken right to the white house, right to donald trump to stop the family separations. People can go to families belong together. Org, sign up. There will be contiguous marches and rallies in cities across the country. This is a moment and i will tell you, chris, every single day i have constituents calling my office, but not just from my districts saying how can we stop this . Republicans, democrats and independents are outraged. The white house is badly miscalculated. They are losing on this issue. Nobody believes, nobody believes that there is any legislative reason, any policy reason and certainly no moral reason to be separating these kids. You know that i was in the detention center. There was, you know, kids up to as young as 1yearold that had been taken from their moms and i heard from those mothers. It is outrageous. Laura bush says it. Franklin graham says it. This is not a political issue. This is about whats right and wrong. This is something ive been trying to get an answer to and maybe youre a member of congress. Whats happened is theyve taken these kids that theyre separating actively, Kirstjen Nielsen said 12,000 in custody, 2,500 some where in there. Theyre putting them in these facilities that were designed for unaccompanied minor, no ones sending a 2yearold or 4yearold or 6yearold by their self. Now theres a new population. These are kids 0 to 10. Do we know where they are and whos caring for them . Nonchs. Theres no coordination among the many agencies. Weve been trying to get this information i might have said on the show with you that the women that i met with were given slips of paper that said this is your name, these are your children and one woman said to me, these are not my children. So it is very clear that the agencies are not able to coordinate this. There is no real understanding of which parent goes with which children, where the children are. And in my experience the 174 women that i talked to, not a single one of them had actually been able to say goodbye to their children and only two out of the 174 new where their children were. June 30th, youre planning a mobilization, you and others who are opposed to this. What is the end game here . The end game is really to say, this is about trump. Look, he would love to make this about and you just quoted him, about democrats. He would love to make this about legislation that has to be passed. He would love to make this about both sides as trump said. Its not. Its about donald trump reversing this policy. The end game s donald trump reverse this policy, stop the zero tolerance, reunite these kids and lets get asylum hearings for all of these folks. The white house could do that tonight. Right now. They could they were doing it in february, they were doing, just to be clear. Thats right. And they have consistently i think theyve gone back and forth, is this policy a policy . No, its not a policy. They just tell lies all the time on this issue. I do think that they understand that the only way they win is if they divert the focus. If they divert the focus to a broader question of immigration issues, legislation, those things, then they start to win. If we keep the focus on this, which is a policy of the Trump Administration and we say, you can reverse it right now and the outrage of the American People, including republicans like laura bush come forward, he can change it right this moment. June 30th, national mobilization, families belong together. Well be covering that. Thank you. Thank you. President separating children from their parents and echoing the antiimmigration positions of europes far right. What this grim vision shows next . Ahh. Summer is coming. And its time to get outside. Pack in even more adventure with audible. With the Largest Selection of audiobooks. Audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track. Or discover magic when you hit the open road. With the free audible app, your stories go wherever you do. And for just 14. 95 a month you get a credit, good for any audiobook. If you dont like it exchange it any time. No questions asked. You can also roll your credits to the next month if you dont use them. So take audible with you this summer. On the road. On the trail. Or to the beach. Start a 30day trial and your first audiobook is free. Cancel anytime, and your books are yours to keep forever. No matter where you go this summer make it better with audible. Text summer17 to 500500 to start listening today. I we worked with pg eof to save energy because wenie. Wanted to help the school. They would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didnt cut off the light. The teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. So they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. We actually saved 50,000. And thats just one school, two semesters, three girls. Together, were building a better california. What we are witnessing here with the Trump Administration and immigration policy is part of a Broader Movement of antiimmigrant reaction across the west. Today, antiimmigrant forces gave german chancellor two weeks to restrict that countrys policy of accepting middle east refugees or face the collapse of her government. Also today, italys far right antiimmigrant ministry asked for a, quote, census of the Roma Community living in italy with an eye toward kicking out the noncitizens. He said the citizens would be able to stay, unfortunately. Last year, italy and germany formed an antiimmigration, axis. The president today attempting to justify the separation of families seeking asylum appear to cheer on those far right forces in europe. The United States will not be a migrant camp and it will not be a refugee holding facility. It wont be. You look at whats happening in europe and whats happening in other places, we cant allow that to happen to the United States, not on my watch. Talk about whats going on here im joined by my panel. This morning i watched the president s twitter feed i saw his comments and theyre indistinguishable from a breitbart article or a Stephen Miller rant or things you would hear from very far right extremist parties in europe, basically we must defend the german peoples purity against the criminal interlopers. Watching that clip that you just played of the president making those remarks, you could almost see Stephen Miller over shiz shoulder writing those words down for him. This is classic Stephen Miller. I spent a lot of time talking to miller reporting on miller for a protile at the atlantic and the thing that i came away with was that, he absolutely is a fierce ideology when it comes to this right wing nationalist world view. He spoke at length to me about the conservative nationalism sweeping across the world and how that movement would ultimately prevail because there was greater emotional residence to that movement than any other movement. The other thing i found out about as i spent time with him, is he thrills at advancing it in a most caustic way possible. Its how you get the travel ban implemented the way it was to maximize chaos at the airports and its now how you get an immigration policy thats so draconian at the border that its eliciting outrage across the country, across the political spectrum. To Stephen Miller and his allies, that is the point. That provocation is the point. They want to see this anger and outrage because theyve made this grim political calculation that that will be a win for them in the end. I think thats part of why it feels like an existential moment. When you look at the politics. Youve got 66 opposing this, 27 supporting. Republicans supporting it 55 35. Democrats 91 , 7 oppose. What does this mean for the countrys politics at this moment . Ill tell you, i just came from texas this morning where hundreds of us gathered at the ursula border processing station where theyre Holding Hundreds of children and i saw with my own eyes buses of children being carted around like prisoners and actually one bus drove right in front of us and we were able to chant to them, you are not alone. We are here. We love you. You are not alone. And they waved through the window. And it was one of the most heartbreaking experiences of my entire life and the fact that this administration, every single day is decide to go continue this policy of separating children from their parents, its within their control they can change this at any moment. This is not about congress. This is not about policy. They have the power to change it at any moment and theyre deciding intentionally not only not to do that but to brag and to use it as a negotiating chip for their political agenda. I think American Voters can see right through that. Its a bet. They bet that this is i think theyre on the wrong side of this argument politically. Its also a bet that they can motivate their people and thats all that matters. This reminds me chris, this is in some ways the prop 187 moment, if you go back 20 years to california and governor pete wilson, and the meanness and the intentionality and the racism behind that proposition statewide ballad to dramatically restrict immigration. And so whats happened since then is that california, the politics of california, has changed dramatically because people said, enough is enough. So were seeing that i think were seeing that right in this moment. This is a moment where across the country, immigrant Rights Organization are mobilizing with an eye towards november to remind people who stood up for separating families and who stood up for uniting families. There will be consequences. I think there will be longterm consequences of this. This is more than politics. This is a moral crisis. The question is, how much is a childs life worth . Thats right. We decided in this country this administration decide that had black and brown kids lives arent worth as much as white kids lives and as a black person in this country, this is a familiar story to me because weve been doing this to black kids in terms of juvenile and sending kids at a young age to be incarcerated, so now weve turned our attention to brown kids and it is a moral crisis and we all of us have to stand up and put our bodies on the line and say no more. One thing thats very striking to me, this is part of an allout attempt to reduce Legal Immigration in the country. This cant be stressed enough. Its not really about breaking the law. Theyre turning back people who are legally seeking asylum. We have people who have gone to ports of entry and had their kids taken away. They want to dramatically reduce Legal Immigration into the country. That is the agenda. Its not even just this episode where thats been apparent. Back earlier this year when there were negotiations, negotiations on daca on capitol hill, it was Stephen Miller who drafted this kind of list of demands from the administration that, you know, basically required that any movement on daca would have to require major democratic concessions on issues that would essentially dramatically limit Legal Immigration. Restrict the flow of immigration. Stephen miller doesnt hide that. Hes a restrictionist. Its not that he just wants to build a wall or, you know, punish law breakers in his view, he wants the overall flow of immigrants into america to be much lower. It echos the parties across europe are saying this is an assault on our nation and our blood and soil and thats theres a question about whether thats what american politics are going to be or not. This is about children. Lets be clear. This is about children and i think during the vigil with us this weekend, there was an 11yearold girl from florida named leah who came all the way from florida with messages from children in her community, stuffed animals, notes, poems, to deliver to the children who are being held at the border, to let them know that theyre not alone and children are being traumatized by this. The children who are being separated from their parents are suffering incredible trauma and weve heard pediatricians talking about this and child psychologists talking about this, but its also all of our children who are watching whats happening and as parents, we have to do something. This is what this is about. Thank you all for joining us. Roger stone in the previously undisclosed offer of russian dirt on Hillary Clinton. Tonights seismic and uplifting and heartwarming, i promise. Thing 1 in mexicos upset victory over germany, a star was born with this tweet. Quote, im 100 convinced my grandma was the reason mexico won. Blessing mexicos players during their National Anthem. As you can see the National Anthem played, grandma even matters to hold her bowl of food as she casts her video. Its garnered 13 million view. Mexicos one triumph over trump, the first miracle of the world cup, thats not the only thing grandma may have brought b. Theres the tectonic miracle, thats thing 2 in 60 seconds. G r Perfect Hotel at the lowest price. Is as easy as dates, deals, done simply enter your destination and dates. And see all the hotels for your stay tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites. To show you the lowest prices. So you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you. Dates, deals, done tripadvisor. Visit tripadvisor. Com so after mexicos stunning upset of germany in the world cup. Another shock that cheering fans in mexico set off Earthquake Centers from reuters the institute of geological and atmospheric facility says registered tremors at two sites in mexico city, seven seconds after the games 35th minute when star player scored. They called the tremors an artificial quake possibly because of mass jumping said the group. The institute post this had tweet along with the seismic activity detected. A spanish newspaper cast doubt that a phantom earthquake could be caused by a scattered fans. When that goal happened, lots and lots of jumping. The institute took issue with the doubters explaining the seismic event might be imperceptible but still it did set off those earthquake censors. Grandma would be the least bit surprised. Im leaving the track behind, but im not standing still. And with godaddy, ive made my ideas real. I made my own way, now its time to make yours. Everything is working, working, just like it should roar ] run oh i have to see this. Holy this is gonna be awesome. Rated pg13. Heres something that remains true no matter how desperately donald trump and his allies try to spin it. The fbi took numerous action thats hurt the candidacy of Hillary Clinton and it may well have led to donald trump becoming the president. Then fbi director james comey said not one word about the investigation, the counterintelligence investigation into the Trump Campaign and yet twice, before election day, he went public with information about the fbi investigation into clinton. That allowed trump to portray clinton as a criminal, lock her up. Comeys double standard appears torch motivated by fears that the clinton investigation would leak and a former fbi lawyer recount that had some, i quote the report here, that some fbi employees hated secretary clinton and made comments such as you guys are finally going to get that b. Some of the anticlinton fbi employees appear to have been working with trumps allies on the outside. During the campaign Rudy Giuliani teased advanced knowledge that comey would open the investigation and trumps top water carrier in Congress Devin Nunes said last week, hed been told about the emails before the fbi made them public. That admission did not sit well with thinks democratic counter part on the Intelligence Committee adam schiff. This is the first weve heard about it and it is deeply disturbing because if this was shared by new york field agents with devin nunes, was it also shared with the Rudy Giuliani . Or did devin nunes do something which we have seen subsequently which is coordinate with the trump team . Fbi director chris wray and Michael Horowitz appeared before the Senate Judiciary committee and republicans took the opportunity to push their claim the fbi was out to destroy trump even though no one at the fbi during the entire campaign leaked the fact he was being investigated. After she emerged from the hearing i asked the top democrat on the committee, senator Dianne Feinstein, if enough had been done to investigate the anticlinton leaks. No. The answer is no. I dont think its been sufficiently investigated. There have been rumors about it for a long time, including during the campaign. When we come back, new revelations about yet more contacts between trump allies and the russians, and they just keep coming. This one involving a certain infamous dirty trickster with a nixon tattoo on his back. That story right after this. Ive got a pretty shocking figure for you. There are now at least 13 People Associated with the president , donald trump, who are known to have been in contact with russians during the campaign or the transition. 13 of them. Talking to russians. The same campaign the russians hacked and attempted to sabotage. The latest additions to the list are roger stone, infamous dirty trickster, longtime trump confidant, and Michael Caputo, a Trump Campaign communications official. They acknowledged to the Washington Post that back in may 2016 stone met with a russian man who offered damaging information about Hillary Clinton. Roger stone we should note does not have a sterling reputation when it comes to the truth. Told the Washington Post that the man wanted trump to pay 2 million for the political dirt, an offer stone says he turned down. Joining me now, one of the people who broke that story, Washington Post political investigations and Enterprise Reporter rosalind helderman. Also msnbc contributor natasha bertrand, staffer at the atlantic and one of the best reporters on the trump russia beat. So rosalind, neither of these men have raised this before or talked about this meeting with congressional investigators even under oath, right . Thats right. Were told that neither of them mentioned it in their congressional testimony and that Michael Caputo suddenly remembered this event after two years while preparing to meet with the senate Intelligence Committee and with Robert Muellers team in early may. Right. So the idea is theres a meeting, everyone forgets about it, and then he just remembered about it. Thats basically the story. That is basically what were being told. What do you make of this, natasha . Well, i think that one of the most important things to examine in all this is the timeline. This guy, this russian who Michael Caputo initially thought i guess was a u. S. Citizen, then discovered he was not in fact, hes actually a russian, approached roger stone and Michael Caputo in may of 2016 which of course was before the dnc hack, it was before the fbi investigation was formally launched. So when youre thinking about what he could have possibly known, it was well before the dnc hack was even made public by the Washington Post a month later in june. So that for one is really curious. Another really bizarre thing is just the discrepancy in the versions of the story thats being told by the russian and by roger stone. Not only did roger stone and Michael Caputo just remember that this meeting happened, but roger stone is saying that this russian Henry Greenberg was the only one at this meeting whereas greenberg is saying, well, no, i actually had a ukrainian friend with me who was offering them dirt allegedly on the Clinton Foundation, or at least represented himself as someone who had worked for the Clinton Foundation and had said that he had dirt on Hillary Clinton, presumably related to that. I asked Michael Caputo this morning whether or not they ever found out what it was that this guy was offering in terms of the content, and he said no, we never got that far. So presumably they dont remember what the meeting was actually substantively about either. These are the Text Messages from your story, this is caputo, how crazy is the russian . Wants big money for the info. Waste of time. Anything at all interesting . No. Thats supposedly the messages. But heres my question. They did set up this meeting, right . It just seems like a lot of people are getting approached by people to offer dirt on Hillary Clinton and everyones taking every meeting. Thats absolutely right. They knew it was a meeting for dirt, and roger stone did choose to go to it. It was a whole long sequence of events kind of a wild tale that involves Michael Caputos russianborn Business Partner who met mr. Greenberg at an art opening, a small art opening in miami. Mr. Greenberg immediately says i have this dirt, and roger Michael Caputo sends him to roger stone, who takes the meeting. Right. And Michael Caputo has tried to now frame then tire issue around the idea that Henry Greenberg, the russian, who has about three different aliases, was an informant for the fbi. This is his contention. And he was according to many former fbi agents i spoke to, immigration lawyers, they say paperwork he 2350i8d is consistent with someone who was providing support to federal law enforcement. But that support allegedly ended in 2013. So there would be a threeyear gap there between the time that he stopped working with the fbi and when he approached the Trump Campaign. So that kind of doesnt really work. Its also before, rosalind, if im not mistaken, its before as far as we know the fbi actually even opened the investigation, right . Well, thats right. Our best information at the moment is that the counterintelligence investigation was opened on july 31 as a result of the information from the australians about george pap dap los. Of course mr. Caputo and mr. Stone want to question that and say is it possible that the fbi opened the investigation earlier than theyve led us to believe . Two things. One, just look at this graphic of all the Trump Associates in contacts with russians during the campaign or transition. Its a lot of people. And second of all, theres three things that happened right around may, june. Right . Youve got George Papadopoulos is having a meeting assessed to be somehow connected to russian intelligence who says hes got dirt on hillary and hes blabbing about it to the australian ambassador. Youve got this meeting of someone trying to get to the trump people saying ive got dirt on Hillary Clinton and im a russian. And then youve got the trump tower meeting. Again, all within the span of about six weeks. All these different vectors of people being like im associated with the russians, im trying to bring you dirt on Hillary Clinton. And the one thing we know for sure is that no one in the campaign, when the news breaks, the russians have hacked the dnc, ever says word boo. In fact, the candidate himself defies the russians had anything to do with it. No one reported these overtures to the fbi. And of course when i asked caputo about this this morning he said, well, we didnt actually think this guy was serious, we thought he was a total crackpot. Okay. Well, then why did you take the meeting in the first place . Rosalind helderman and natasha bertrand, thank you to you both. That is all in for this evening. Its monday which means tuesday a brand new echs of our podcast why is this happening coming out tomorrow morning. Naomi klein about her new book about the manmade catastrophe in puerto rico that was a Long Time Coming even before hurricane maria. Go subscribe its a really good episode wherever you get your podcasts. Also make sure you join us tomorrow night where we will join you live from the border in mcallen, texas ground zero for the Trump Administrations family separation policy. Tonight the Haunting Images and now audio of children separated from their parents at the border. Were live in south texas with a look at what one pediatrician calls governmentsanctioned child abuse. Plus defiance from the white house as the Trump Administration tries to blame democrats and congress for a policy of the president s making and one that he could stop. Reaction to all this from one of our studio guests tonight, Ohio Governor john kasich. The 11th hour on a monday night begins now. Well, good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 515 of the Trump Administration, and todays news left millions of americans with a helplessness and upsetting and