Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20180531

She was fired for espousing racist conspiracy theories and he by the his political career on one. Why doesnt he show his birth certificate. Roseanne barr, donald trump and the conspiracy caucus. A year into office, youll be saying wow, i remember that interview. When all in starts right now. Donald trump i hope you can help uncripple america. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Robert mueller just collected a new piece of evidence in his obstruction of justice probe into the president of the United States. And that would be the president himself declaring this morning he regrets hiring attorney general Jeff Sessions recuse dprds the Russian Investigation due to conflicts of interest. The president tweet aids quote from trey gowdy which reads in part, i think what the president is doing is expressing frustration that attorney general Jeff Sessions should have shared these reasons for recusal before he took the job, not afterward. There are lots of really good lawyers in the country and he could have picked somebody else. I wish he did, trump added. The interview came this morning. The congressman was asked about a report by the New York Times the president pressured sessions last year to unrecuse himself and retake control of the russia inquiry. Mueller is now examining that incident according to times, making the attorney general of the United States a key witness in the obstruction of justice investigation. According to Rudy Giuliani, the president currently has no plans to take action against sessions at least for the time being. Sessions is safe till after the investigation is wrapped up . Is that what youre saying . Secure in in his job. I dont think anybody in the cabinet or administration is ever secure. Something totally different could go wrong. I dont think the president is going to touch him, mueller or rosenstein. I decline to answer that. Thats a funny laugh. Sessions was later spotted leaving that very same white house. Staff declined to explain why he was there at all. While the president took an interest in the interview this morning tweeting out the congressmans defense in the way he treated sessions he had nothing to say about the part of the interview that made headlines, that would be gowdy pouring ice water on the president s latest Conspiracy Theory about the huler probe. When the president says spygate, there was nos spy inserted into the campaign. Have you seen any evidence of that. I have not. Thats a espionage terp. Thats not a Law Enforcement term. You believe the fbi acted properly in this matter . Based on what i have seen, i dont know what the fbi could have done or should have done other than run out a lead. Informants are used all day every day by Law Enforcement. I cant think of any major case i handled in 20 years where there was not someone willing to provide information. Gowdy who is retiring next year is the highest profile gop lawmaker to publicly debunk the president s claim about a spy in the campaign and he would know being one of the members of congress briefed on what the fbi was doing. Now even some of the people on trump tv are breaking ranks. President trump has also claimed the feds spied on his campaign with an informant. He calls it spygate. Fox news can confirm it is not. They know of no evidence to support the president s claim. The trump people think the fbi had an undercover agent who got into the Trump Campaign and was there as a spy on the campaign seem to be baseless. No evidence for that whatsoever. Baseless no, evidence. Get the picture. Nevertheless, the white house maintained today the president still has reasons toe worry about political bias in the probe while declining to identify what exactly those reasons are. There are a number of things that have been reported on and that show i think not just for the president but a number of americans a large cause for concern and we would like to see this fully looked into. The president still has concerns about whether or not the fbi acted inappropriately having people in his campaign. And certainly the president has concerns about the overall conduct of the fbi when it comes to this process. To break down what all this means to the obstruction of justice probe, im joined by constitutional scholar, Laurence Tribe, coauthor of to end a presidency, the power of impeachment. Good to be here. The president sort of has been very public about the Jeff Sessions stuff. What do you think of the significance of the latest revelations are . They show even before he fired comey, he was basically twisting the arm of the attorney general to violate the rules of the Justice Department about the conflict of interest and to take over the russia probe even before the public knew as much as it seems trump himself knew about what it was that he could hide. That was the beginning of clear evidence of obstruction of justice. It got worse when he fired comey after a cooked up story about his reasons and then on national tv he talked to lester holt and said it was because of the russia thing. We have seen over and over again evidence of corrupt endeavors to undercut the efforts of the federal government, the Justice Department to get to the bottom of the invasion of our sovereignty by a hostile power. Thats serious stuff. I want to play you what giuliani said about that sessions, the request that sessions unrecuse and his argument and get your reaction. Take a lis. And would that be considered obstruction of justice . No, oh, no, hardly. I mean, you got to be able to ask cabinet members to do things you think they should do even if you commanded him to do it, it wouldnt be obstruction of justice. I dont think he has a clue what hes talking about. He may at one time or another have been a good lawyer. Clearly he doesnt understand the meaning of obstruction either under the federal criminal law or more importantly, as a potential article of impeachment. When the president to protect himself tries to deflect attention from his potential wrongdoing, even if in the end hes just paranoid and he really didnt do anything worth covering up, that is an impeach peachable offense. We know that from the history of impeachment, from dick nixon. In this case, increasingly there are not just smoking guns but smoking howitzers all over the place in plain view how his entire campaign worked land in arm with Vladimir Putins oligarchs and when as neutral an ob ver with as much experience in National Intelligence as clapper concludes in his recent book facts and fears that he is quite confident not only that russia meddled in our election but that it actually tipped the election to trump. Thats a really serious problem. Its not literally treason, but its treachery. And its something that people really ought not to tolerate. Your new book again coauthored with josh matz is to impeach a president , about impeachment. Giuliani i think it occurs to me when you say he may have at one time been a good lawyer, hes not really making legal arguments. Hes making political ones. He gave away the game why that is. I want to play how he understands what hes doing. Were defending to a large extent, remember, dana, were defending it is for Public Opinion because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not il peach. Members of congress, democrat and republican are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. So our jury as it should be is the American People and the American People, yes, are republicans, largely, independents pretty substantially and even some democrats now question the legitimacy of it. Of course, its not that they question the legitimacy of it. Its that these people are undermining its legitimacy by constantly repeating the big lie that even trey gowdy says has no basis that its all a big conspiracy to get trump. In a sense, hes right. The American People ultimately have to come together and form a bipartisan consensuses in favor of removal. The book that i wrote with josh yash matz argues that might not happen. Yes, he could be impeached even though thats not high on the democrats agenda. They want to do affirmative things. But impeachment just means hes put on trial in the senate. I at the moment cannot really imagine 67 senators voting to convict and remove him and then hell say see, im vindicated, no obstruction. No collusion. And hell be stronger, not weaker. In fact, it would be unprecedented in American History both Andrew Johnson and bill clinton managed to escape that fate of remove in the senate. In this case, we have a stronger set of arguments than weve ever had for concluding that a president is dangerous and tyrannical. It doesnt mean we should pull the impeachment sort of wand out because its not a magic wand. It doesnt necessarily do what a lot of people want it to do and thats what the book is about. Laurence tribe, great to have you here. For more on the president s attacks against is the attorney general, im joined by maxine waters, democrat from california. Your reaction to a New York Times article about rod rosenstein. Check in where you think your level of confidence in him is. In a meeting of the Justice Department, he said the president had originally asked him to reference russia in his memo, the memo he prepared laying the groundwork for comeys firing. He did not elaborate what trump wanted him to say. One person briefed on conversation with the president said mr. Trump simply wanted mr. Roeszen stein to mention testifies not personally under investigation in the russia inquire aries. This is new information saying rosenstein had been explicitly asked by the president to mention russia in the comey firing memo. What do you think of that . What i think is we have enough information about this president and his attempts to control rosenstein and Jeff Sessions and to literally have them protect him from this investigation. I think it is clear that hes obstructed justice. I think that the more we delve into it, the more we see not only signs of it but actually efforts by this president to get them to basically protect him from the fact that he has colluded with russia. And thats it. I mean, you can call it any way that you would like to call it, but the fact of the matter is, that we see the evidence of it. We see what he said, you know, to Jeff Sessions and the way that hes treating Jeff Sessions. Because Jeff Sessions said listen, im recusing myself. Im not lying for you. Im scared of this stuff. And im not about to get myself into a position where i can be indicted and he is really upset with him. He would love to get rid of him but for the fact that hes got friends over the senate side, these republicans are saying youd better not do it, mr. President. Youre one of the most outliers spoken critics of Jeff Sessions, very critical of his nomination to be attorney general and his performance in that role. Im very curious, in the past youve said even on the show you think he should be fired or he should quit. He should not have the job. What you make of the president s sort of continued public humiliation of his attorney general. Well, heres what i think. I think that the president does not care who you are. If in fact he needs you and you do not respond to him, if you do not protect him, if you do not lie for him, he will throw you under the bus. He will attack you. He has humiliated Jeff Sessions. I dont know why Jeff Sessions would even want to stay in the job. But he has shown that he does not care about Jeff Sessions or anybody else. He cares about saving himself. You know, its been said Jeff Sessions was you know, the first senator i believer to support and endorse him in his campaign to stand by him, to you know, clearly indicate that he wanted him to be elected. But hes thrown all of that aside. He doesnt care about that. Sesaying to Jeff Sessions, youre supposed to be here to protect me. You belong to me and Jeff Sessions saying, im not going to lie, im not going to endanger myself not at this point. Im not doing that. And the president does not like that. He wants him out. He just doesnt know how to get him out without incurring the wrath of the senators, republican senators who support Jeff Sessions. Does that change your mind though about, im curious if it changes the way you think of sessions and his character . No, i know who he is. I know how hes defined himself. Hes a racist. He has demonstrated that in more ways than one. I understand that. This is a different situation. Now, this is about him. And whether or not he is going to end up doing something that may cause him to be indicted. Its two different things. Hes still the racist but on this question of whether or not hes got going to go down for the president , i think its a different question. And hes not prepared to do that. To the point that Laurence Tribe was just making about impeachment and the question of it which Rudy Giuliani seems eager to litigate which supporters of the president seem eager to litigate and democrats seem reticent to, where is your thinking on that question and the democrat partys approach to it as a whole . Im with the 70 . 70 of democrats who have been polled say that they think that he should be impeached. Im with the 70 . I understand the reticence of my colleagues and the democratic leadership who say dont feed the notion that is being presented by the republicans that say that all they want to do is impeach the president because theyre mad about the fact they lost the election. I get that, and i understand why that would cause them to not want to talk about it. But i just dont have those at some point in time, we have to deal with reality. We have to deal with some truths. And we have to deal with some facts. I know that people are saying weve got wait and weve got see what our special counsel will come up with. I get that. And i believe that we need facts in order to move forward. But the discussion must take place. We must not allow the president of the United States of america who has this is relationship with the country who hates us and has undermined us and who has undermined our democracy to not be talked about, to not be discussed, to not be talked about the reticence of our members to deal with it. I just will continue to talk about it. I think it is dangerous. I think that we should stand up for our country. This president has no respect for the constitution. Hes in bed with putin and the oligarchs of russia, and the kremlin and its come out already. So let the special counsel keep doing what hes doing in order to connect the dots for those people who say we need the positive proof and i think were going to get to the point where people are either going to have to stand up and resist this president and talk about hes dangerous for our democracy or theyre going to go down with him. Congresswoman maxine waters, always a pleasure. Next, mounting pressure on the president s lawyer as Michael Cohens legal team sorts through the millions, millions of items seized in the fbi raid including shredded documents. Thats in two minutes. vo i was born during the winter of 77. I first met james in 5th grade. We got married after college. And had twin boys. But then one night, a truck didnt stop. But thanks to our forester, neither did our story. And thats why well always drive a subaru. Looking for a hotel that fits. Whoooo. Your budget . Tripadvisor now searches over. 200 sites to find you the. Hotel you want at the lowest price. Grazi, gino find a price that fits. Tripadvisor. Through the millions, millions t an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. Investigators are piecing together the contents of a Paper Shredder from Michael Cohens office. Thats what a u. S. Attorney told a federal judge today in a Court Hearing regarding the boxes of documents and cell phones and hard drives seize from his home and office which are being poured through to determine what might be subject to president trumps Attorney Client privilege with Michael Cohen. Heres the stat us. More than 250 items are subject to the privilege according to lawyers for trump and cohen. But more than 1 million files from three of cohens cell phones three of them contain no privileged information and will be turned over to the government. There is still a trove of data to sort through including those shredded files. Legal analyst nick akerman there eli nos tal join me now. Lets start with you, elly, on the significance of the evidentiary hearing today. Yeah, so it struck me as you that they are going to the mattresses by putting together shredded documents like they didnt do that for enron. So theyre going for it with him on that. A second thing that they said and this is really this has been a conservative talking point all day. The judge set a timeline and said any other review that kobes lawyers need to do needs to be finished by june 15th, about two weeks from now. The conservative talking point as been there are 3myon documents. Please, Michael Cohen is being represented by lawyers from america r america dermatowill and emory, one of the biggest white shoeist law firms we have. Having worked in one of those firms before, they can eat 3 million documents in two weeks, i can mow my lawn in a day. Document review is what they do. Theyll get it done. So but by setting the timeline what the judge is saying is that cohens team has to speed it up. They cant extend this out infinitely. They have to come to play ball. That seems like the part of the fight thats happening right now between cohen and the government is about timing. Its not just cohen. Its trumps lawyers are involved in this, too. Thats whats remarkable. Because the privilege belongs to trump if it is privileged. Thats a big if. So what hes trying to do is trying to slow roll this. Hes trying to slow roll it for two reasons. One is he wants to get Rudy Giuliani out there denigrating the Mueller Investigation as much as possible. Hes trying to keep indictments from coming because this evidence is extremely important before mueller brings any major indictment. And its important to to try and look at as many documents as you can because what hes trying to do is to find out exactly how damaging kocohen can be to him. There are millions of documents in there. The tornadoes care about what is incriminating with respect to the trump. So all of this talk last week about what the white house would have learned about that informant pales in comparison to what theyre going to be trying to learn in this process. I want to play something that Stormy Daniels lawyer Michael Avenatti who got something of a. Took an el today. He and drake. From the lawyer, from the bench who said basically like youve got to cut it out with the publicity. This is what avenatti had to say what he calls the trump tapes. Take a lis. We now have what i will refer to as the trump tapes. Mr. Ryan admitted that there are audio recordings that Michael Cohen was taking for years and that those recordings are, to quote him, not only do they exist burks them are under lock and key and some of them relate to my client and her Attorney Client privilege communications. Hes now saying he knows that some of it has to do with Stormy Daniels former lawyer and that the president is on one of these tapes. To cut through the jargon, what happened today is avenatti has to make the argument that this criminal investigation to. This is not the lawsuit. This is the federal government criminally looking into cohen. Is so important to his adult film actress client that he should be allowed to parachute into new york to pretend hes barred in new york and have standing to also review the documents in the case. And the judge was like come on. No harm in trying but that doesnt seem like its going to happen. She was like slow your roll there, sir. Avenatti has already withdrawn his motion to try to do that. At this point, hes trying to avenatti and giuliani are not in substantially different situations right now. Theyre both kind of shouting at the media and playing this out in court in the court of Public Opinion. But in a way that has no real relevance. Bearing. To the actual criminal case. My question is what is the timeline here . That is a lot of documents. We dont know whats in there. Youve got the june 15th mark. What is your understanding. The timeline is very important here. I dont see how knewer can bring down a major indictment, we know that there was a crime when they broke into the Democratic National committee and toll emails. That is a major crime. If you take that as an example, he is going to want to make sure all of that evidence is scoured to determine whether or not there is truth to the Christopher Steele allegation that cohen was in prag dealing with the stolen emails, dealing with paying off the hackers, dealing with participating with the russians in giving money to these hackers to hide them out after the fact. Theyre going to want to know that. To do that, its going to slow down the timeline a bit. Thats understandable. Theyve got to come up and put all those documents in a major database and doing word searches and doing a lot of work trying to sort through that material. What i dont know is how that possibly helps trump. We agree that trump is the one kind of pushing this. If you drag it out. Its going to be drip, drip, drip through the midterms. Giuliani keeps saying its going to be done in two weeks. It is not. Neil elie, thank you both. Shocking numbers of how many immigrant children on average are being taken away from their families and parents every single day. Do not go anywhere. This is your wakeup call. If you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. Ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. Humira can help stop the clock. Prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. 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From may 6th when this started until may 19th, our records show that 658 children with 638 adults have been in the prosecution process. Just to be clear, 658 children taken away from their parents forcibly by the United States government. The picture is bookkeeping clearer now. Not only the scone of this operation but also the strategy the Trump Administration is employing to do it. Process immigrants as criminals for prosecution and use that to justify ripping apart the families and taking away peoples kids, and the goal to scare off anyone who might be trying to seek refuge with their family. If youre smuggling a child, were going to prosecute you. And that child will be separated from you probably as required by law. If you dont want your child to be separated, then dont bring them across the border illegally. Its not our fault that somebody does that. Here to discuss what the government is doing to the families ruben guy yea negotiation Jeff Sessions say its these parents fault, not the u. S. Governments fault for having their 1yearold, 18monthold is, 3yearold taken from their arms and separated from them. Its ridiculous. I mean, as a parent, if thing like this would happen to me, i would be terrified not knowing if i would be able to get in contact with my son, whether ill ever see them and the fact we as the United States government are doing there purposely is disgusting. It is entirely the donald Trump Administrations fault. They changed the policy to make this happen. Number three, the reason this is happening is because they actually got rid of a really good policy where people were allowed to stay in their country and apply for refugee status. Instead because donald trump had to fulfill this like hard on Immigration Campaign promise, he cut that program and now people are fleeing Central America to get here. This is all because of donald trump and all because theyre trying to apiece the base. Thats all this is. This is confusing for people. I want to walk through it carefully. There are two ways you can come, refugees you stay in your country, youre in honduras, an apply through the u. S. Embassy to be a refugee. The other is an sigh lum seeker which you show up and say i want to be taken in because im fleeing violence or persecution. Youre saying the Trump Administration changed the refugee process to make it more difficult. Absolutely. It was in august of 2017 they changed the policy under obama who was trying to stem the tide of unaccompanied minors coming north that he allowed people to apply for this within their home countries which did diminish the amount of people try to come over. In order to be hard, the president ended up being stupid and pushing this type of issue that ended up creating more immigrant flows north. Do you feel like the administration is being transparent with congress and congressional oversight what theyre doing with these children, what their policies and plans are for them . Not really. Weve had some warnings and at least some description what they were planning to do. The president outliers right lying when the blowback started saying because of democratic policies or policies under under president obama that these types of separations were occurring when in fact, this is all under the executive order of this president. This is all what Jeff Sessions has been bragging about, what secretary nielsen has been talking about, even secretary kelly and now chief of staff kelly was talking about doing this in the future. This is clearly a Trump Administration program. And now that theyve actually had some blowback because americans are good people, theyre trying to distance themselves from it. Theyre not being transparent with the public. Theyre definitely not being transparent with congress and in general with the oversight we should be conducting to keep them in check. Another area of congressional oversight where i feel like theres a lot of questions to be asked is about the federal governments response to the hurricane in puerto rico. We have a new harvard study yesterday with a staggering almost incomprehensible number, over 45 lun deaths due to the storm in its aftermath, something that exceeds by above factors of ten the official estimates. Has the government, the federal government been straight about what happened in puerto rico and should there be some kind of investigation . They have not been straight. I sit on complete of oversight and i ask many times questions both to fema, both to the u. S. Government, to the government of puerto rico and every time they were trying to paint us this happy rosy scene when we knew better. We knew people were going without water, electricity. People were dying because of lack of dialysis. All these things. The president did not focus on puerto rico. If puerto rico had been a state, had been texas, florida, the president would have been all over it. Because puerto rico is not a state, because i believe puerto rico is filled with democrats, the president just didnt care. Instead what you saw was you know, the United States allowing its citizens to suffer for months. And they still are suffering right now. We should have an investigation and people within this administration should it be held accountable for doing that to american citizens. Arizona not nevada, i misspoke earlier. Arizona congressman ruben gallego. Thank you for joining me. Have a good one. Still to come, why roseanne is no outlier. But actually representative of a crucial part of the president s political base. Ill explain ahead. Plus a plot twist no one saw coming in tonight as a thing 1, thing 2. Its a good one. Next. At fidelity, our online u. S. 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Officials announced that Prominent Russian journalist arkady bab clen cohad been shot in the back multiple times as he left his kiev apartment. His wife found him in a pool of blood and babchenko die dmd an ambulance on the way to the hospital. The reaction to the news was swift. Ukrainian Prime Minister blamed the kremlin for his death claiming he was killed for being a critic of putz tin. Sergey lavrov saying it was nonsense and a tragedy. Meanwhile babchenkos wife and children mourned. Condolences from all over the world until today when babchenko walked into a press conference in kiev. And thats thing 2ing in 60 seconds. Ay. In 60 seconds. Come fly with me, lets fly, lets fly away. You might or joints. Hing for your heart. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brainhealth supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. It was an absolutely incredible scene in kiev when journalist arkady bab clen cowho was supposedly murdered yesterday showed up at a press conference today. Wait a second. So what the heck actually happened here . The details are a little sketchy. Still, babchenko explained his murder had been staged as part of a months long operation by Ukraine Security services to thwart a plot to kill babchenko they say came from russia. Its unclear why they had to go to such lengths to do that but they did apparently catch one suspect releasing this video of a ukrainian citizen who was recruited by russia to carry out the murder. It was unclear why his own family had to be convinced he was dead. But he apologized profusely to his wife yesterday who found him pretend shot and pretend dead. He said he had no choice. He said he plans to live till the age of 96. I have a feeling hell continue apologizing to his wife every day until then. Why did i want a crest 3d white smile . Dinner date. 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If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. If you cant afford your medication, not in this house. cause thats no soso family. Thats your family. Which is why you didnt grab just any cheese. You picked up new kraft expertly paired mozzarella and parmesan for pizzahyeah kraft. Family greatly. Roseanne barr insisted today she has been unfairly maligned. Im a fighter for fairness in all aspects of life. But in recent years what she calls activism includes a record of racism, Valerie Jarrett was not the first woman she compared to an ape and conspiracy theories. This year has has promoted the conspiracy which claims that trump had secretly ordered the mass arrests of Top Democrats in involved in a massive child sex trafficking ring which, of course its not true. Just yesterday, barr repugnantly accused george soros who survived the nas i occupation of hungary of being a nazi. And roseanne is not an outlier. The president s own son one should note, don junior retweeted roseannes barrs shameful attacks on george soros. She appears to hold the same view as too Many American whos promote an alternative diet of toxic conspiratorial judge. Alex jones suggested Mass Shootings are staged by the government and who the president of the United States sure seems to like a lot. I just want to finish by saying your reputation is amazing. I will not let you down. You will be very, very impresses i hope and i think well be speaking a lot. Its not an accident that donald trump aligns himself with alex jones or that he celebrates Roseanne Barr as a standard bearer for his supporters. Look at roseanne. I called her yesterday. Look at her ratings. Look at her ratings. They were unbelievable. Over 18 million people. And it was about us. Roseanne barr in all her bile laden twitter glory speaks to a certain part of the president s base. The part that the trump harnessed when you launched himself into politics in the first place with a laser focus not on taxes or abortion or health care but on one issue. What did he do . The racist Conspiracy Theory that the first black president was from kenya. He cultivated is the part of the base that loved whether he told them that racist lie and used it to take over the Republican Party. Last night i was attacked for writing roseannes problem was she represented the actual worldwide view of the trump base. I think thats true. When we come back, well talk about what it means for america when Roseanne Barr is a reflection of what too many people are willing to believe. Stay with us. With powerload™ technology. Feed the line. Push the button. And get back to work. With an industry first, carbonfiber shaft. Lawn care has never been this easy. Or this powerful. The new ego power string trimmer with powerload™ technology. Exclusively at the home depot and ego authorized dealers. 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Werent you a friend like a good friend of Hillary Clintons at one point . What happened . I know youre very, very down on her. What happened . Down on her . Well, i think you accused her of being a murderer on twitter, didnt you . I did not yeah. Then you know im going to find that tweet and show it in the next four seconds. I deleted it i deleted it. Joining me now to discuss a significant chunk of the trump base thinks a lot like Roseanne Barr. Jennifer rubin, conservative columnist at the washington post. Msnbc political analyst tom cedar. Jennifer, let me start with you. That statement that there is a significant chunk of the trump base that has this sort of paranoid conspiracyist racist world view. What do you think of that comment . I made the same comment. Youre not going to get much argument from me. Listen, i think there are people in trumps space who are simply traditional republicans who any time there is a guy with an r after his name are going to pull the lever there are true racists who are part of this conspiracy mongering, part of the altright. And then there are people, frankly, who are just too passive who say yeah, he is a racist, but. He is a racist but. Yeah, he takes kids away from their parents at the border, but. And frankly, thats a form of racism too. I think those people have gotten too much of a pass. So when Roseanne Barr comes along and says what at least a significant chunk as you say of his voters think, lo and behold, abc, they should have done this before decides i dont think thats what abc wants to be associated with. So they dump her. Its better than what the Republican Party has done, eel tell you that. Sam, part of whats remarkable to me too is when you go back and look and i dont know Roseanne Barr. I loved that show when it was first on, the first one. I think she is very talented. I think she is very funny. I have still a lot of affection for Roseanne Barr. I dont know where she has gone in her state. Its super nutty, and its nutty in a way that relates to like Michael Flynn jr. , the president , tweeting some pizzagate stuff. Its all of that ilk. There is two things that are going on. One is that this is not a trump phenomenon. Right. Look, you had the last john boehner was asked on this network will you tell the ten people in your caucus who are trying to bring up some bill about president obamas birth certificate . No. Thats not my job. The years in which they kowtowed to Rush Limbaugh. I professionally would follow every congressman from the Republican Party who would kowtow to Rush Limbaugh. And Rush Limbaugh was peddling this stuff. This is where the Hillary Clinton is a killer comes from. Yep. It comes from decades of Rush Limbaugh saying this on his radio programs with absolutely no accountability, no response from the Republican Party for decades, for decades. And whats happening with roseanne is not about roseanne. It is about pent up demand for accountability. People watch donald trump get away with this. Yes. Similar to the me too movement. There is no accountability coming from the guy from the highest position in the land and she becomes a proxy for that demand. Jason, what do you want to say . I want to add to this. There is levels. There is levels of conspiracy, right . There is conspiracy born in a black community. Im a black person. We have all sorts of conspiracies in the black Community Born of the fact the tuskegee experiments and every other week Police Officers saying pull over black people. Some experiences are actually born of experiences people are having in this country. What is problematic about the scooby doo logic youre having from Roseanne Barr and a lot of people who support trump is theyre not based on anything. Theyre not based on communities actually suffering as a whole. Theyre based on a desire to change the world into an attacking place to justify the authoritarianism they want. Thats why its much more dangerous than the kind of conspiracies you might hear from actual communities. I also think, jennifer, to the point about roseroseanne, a keep thinking of Michael Flynn jr. Tweeting pizzagate who is tweeting while someone shows up with a gun and don jr. Retweeting a really vile thing to say about george soros which is part of a longstanding right wing Conspiracy Theory about george soros. The breadth of the reach of that kind of information, it really makes me think about that how much mind share does george soros as a nazi have right now, and its bigger than should it be. Right. I think what we discovered in 2016 is it was much bigger than we thought. Listen, there were people, for instance, myself, who were comfortable within sort of the mainstream. Sure, it was little squishy, but within the mainstream of the Republican Party. I liked john mccain. I liked people like lindsey graham. But i tolerated those people because i thought they were a minuscule section of the Republican Party. That apparently was wrong. Bad on me. Theyre a much bigger group than we suspected. Yes. And donald trump helped elevate them. He fired them up. He brought them out of the woodwork. And now we see them in all their glory, and they have in fact taken over the Republican Party. You know, as much grief as organizations that highlight what these people are saying get, you know, you take a guy like ben shapiro who is being feted in all of these mainstream magazines as the new conservative philosopher. This is a guy who trades in the very same george soros myths. They trade on these things as if they are gospel. You can hear someone like dana loesch a year or two ago talking about Net Neutrality saying you got to be careful. Im surprised youre not going to get vince fostered. I had to explain to the 30yearolds who work in my office what that meant. But there is a whole group of people in this country who knew exactly what she meant just on those two words. I want to say the same thing. People, of all political persuasions and ideologies have conspiracy theories. There is all kinds of information throughout that people get their hands on. I run into people all the time who say is this true . No, that is not true. But the difference i think a lot of it is what the market is and what the gatekeepers are doing . And here you have donald trump going on alex jones saying you have a great reputation and playing ftse with these people throughout his campaign and presidency. Right. And, chris, here is how this extends to being dangerous for our democracy as a whole. When you have a president who peddles in conspiracy theories that can constantly be disproven, right . He is 8 million hispanic people voted illegally. No, thats not true. And even the author of the study youre quoting says thats not true. It makes it very difficult for our democracy to function. I have thought about this heading into 2020, possibly 2024. Will there be an election we have in america where donald trump is legitimate . Probably not. If everything is a Conspiracy Theory, we may face a constitutional sovereignty crisis in this country if this guy loses in 2020 because hell say it was a whole bunch of bots and hispanic hillary supporters that did it. Today is the day i believe the report was issued by the state of New Hampshire which looked into the claim i think it was the president and others said thousands of illegal votes in New Hampshire. They did an audit, a comprehensive analysis of the millions of votes cast in New Hampshire, or hundreds of thousands of votes and found five. A total of five. Jennifer rubin, sam seder, and jason johnson, thank you. You can get all in with chris hayes as a podcast, and you can get bonus chris hayes content in your ears with my new podcast why is this happening . Which has a great episode up this week if i do say so myself. Its about the internet and why its gotten so bad. Go check it out. That is all in this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Thank you. And thank you at home for joining us this hour. If you are going to be corrupt, or if you are going to be a serious criminal, word of advice. If you have the choice, it is probably also a good idea to be a politician. And thats because politicians, people elected to Public Office by definition may have one very special thing that they can use as a get out of jail free card. They have a thing that other people dont have that they can trade to prosecutors to keep themselves out of jail when they get caught for serious crimes. The thing that Public Office holders can offer that nobody else can offer