Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20180214

Message to Domestic Violence victims. Thank you very much. Thank you. Plus the intel chiefs tell the senate the russians are back for 201. We have seen russian activity and intensions to have an impact on the next election cycle here. And the president hasnt asked anyone to stop them. Not as specifically directed by the president. Why Donald Trumps new budget is a fox news fever dream. People use food stamps to buy marijuana. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Today the president s hand picked fbi director confirmed under the oath the bed rom damning truth about the scandal engulfing the white house, that the white house knew for months one of its top aides, was credibly accused of Domestic Abuse by two exwives and for months, the white house did nothing about it. They did nothing knowing full well that rob porter posed an acute security risk. Despite an honestly sourced reports that it long knew about the porter allegations the white house has been insisting over and over it did not learn the full extent of the allegations against porter till they were published in the press last week. But today the fbi director, Christopher Wray, came before congress and blew that timeline out of the water revealing in a hearing that agents updated the white house about porters background check multiple times over the last year. Was the white house informed that this could affect his security clearance . Thats a yes or no. What i can tell you is that the fbi submied a partial report on the investigation in question in march. And then a completed Background Investigation in late july that soon thereafter, we received requests for followup inquiry. And we did the followup and provided that information in november and that we administratively closed the file in january. And then earlier this month, we received some Additional Information and we passed that on, as well. To recap, the white house got a pash report last march all the way back in march and then a completed background check in july, followup report in november and the investigation was closed last month. That account directly contradicts the official story from the white house told from the podium that porters background check was still kind of floating out there, this kind of never ending process perpetually incomplete. Senior officials had yet to even receive the fbis findings. His Background Investigation was ongoing. He was operating on an interim security clearance. They were all part of an ongoing background check investigation. The process was still ongoing. We relied upon it. We let the process play out. It was ongoing. Hadnt been completed. The fbi and other intelligence communities, they make that determination. The process for the background was ongoing. And the white house had not received any specific papers regarding the cop pleasing of that background check. They hadnt received specific papers regarding the completion. Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the fbi makes that determination. Thats what she said. You saw what Christopher Wray said anticipating they would have explaining to do today. The white house first sent out elaine chao to eat up some time with nonanswers about infrastructure and, of course, the quarterly ritual of the novelty check from the president. When that was done, the president secretary was finally confronted with the lies about the porter timeline and she proceeded to throw the career officials at the relatively obscure White House Office of security under the bus. The White House Personnel Security Office staffed by career officials received information last year in what they considered to be the final Background Investigation report in november. But they had not made a final recommendation for adjudication to the white house because the process was still ongoing when porter resigned. In the view of Personnel Security Office, the fbis july report required significant additional investigatory field work before Personnel Security Office could begin to evaluate the information for adjudicationing. Sarah sanders left out of that explanation what role senior aides including white house general counsel or chief of staff may have played in that process. Asked directly if top officials were in the loop, she did not give a real answer. Did anyone at the White House Personnel Security Office have any communication with anyone in the west wing about rob porters clearance between when the fbi started submitting its internal reports. Im not aware of any communication. I cant say the definitively. Im not aware of any communication. Given what we know about clearance procedures and whats been reported multiple times the idea that White House Council don mcgahn would not have known about the claims against porter, well, its pro pos terrous. That makes the administrations obvious attempt at a coverup all the more absurd. John kelly told aides and reporters he first learned about the extent of the allegations a week ago tonight and porter was gone 40 minutes later. We knew that was a lie because the white house was still defending him the following day and kelly himself telling reporters that day he stood by his statement he had drafted and put out calling porter who allegedly did this to his first wife as a face, a man of true integrity and honor. Now, we know thats not all they did to support him. According to politico, in the hours of an that photo was published, the white house hastily arranged an off the record meeting in the west wing with who . Porter himself. And for reporters. In which porter on background relayed his version of events and fielded questions from the crew. Politico also reports the three communication staffers present at that meeting including sarah Huckabee Sanders did not dispute that white house chief of staff john kelly urged porter to stay after all this has come out, urged porter to stay accord to a person familiar with the exchange. Kelly was asked last night if the white house should have handled the porter situation differently. His response and i quote, no, it was all done right. Jonathan lemire is from the Associated Press and political analyst. Asawin suebsaeng. Is that the view in the white house, this was all done right. Thats the view that kelly is trying to put forth. There are many others in the west wing who dont feel that way. This is a moment where john kelly grip on his position is most tenuous since he took the job. President trump has been calling to inform allies, those folks he calls every night sort of asking them their opinions on this scandal and how kelly has performed during it. And floating names about possible replacements. It should be said, the president does that a lot. He often evaluates senior aides with his staff usually to complain about them. This is a moment where there are people in the west wing who have been upset that how kelly changed things. He took away access to the oval office. He threw them out of the building. A lot of those people now have their knives out for the chief of staff where they are suggesting he handled this inappropriately and they feel perhaps he should be removed. Gabe sherman saying white spread chatter trump is nearing a decision to name gary cohn as replacement. That would be a remarkable comeback. Youre never out and never completely in. Asawin, cnn reporting porter was up for a motion for deputy chief of staff after all this stuff is coming back into the white house. What do you think of that. Thats not surprising because based on our reporting and at several outlets for months the Trump White House had been expanding rob porters portfolio. He wasnt just a staff secretary. He was becoming more involved with policy and policy making. And back to what you were talking earlier about how the narratives from the white house keep changing and then there are multiple narratives and they keep clark both on the record and off the record and on background, when sarah Huckabee Sanders came out today and tried to clarify things and trying to throw, quote unquote, career officials at that Personnel Office under the bus in the white house, what she didnt mentionings to reporters and viewers of that briefing is that the office she was talking about while staffed by career officials is supposed to be overseen by the deputy chief of staff of operations who is right now senior white house official joe hagan. So in these ongoing clashing and sham bol lick explanations coming from the white house, theyre only raising more questions who knew what when and that includes haggen there john kelly, hope hicks, everybody beak. Hope hicks reportedly dating rob porter. I imagine she had conversations about the fact he wasnt getting the security clearance. Its not a thing people in the white house are like where did we end up on my security clearance . Where did we end up with the fbi be people talking to everybody in my life. Its a thing you keep on top of. Certainly, if its your own security clearance, youre keenly aware where that process is. There may be other folks in the white house who may not be aware. Does rob have this clearance or that. Hes been grand interim clearance in the meantime. You know, but at the same time, a clearance liking that to say that the investigation was still ongoing is in some ways also because they dont want to reject it, they keep it open so you can have interim access to these things. To asawins point, there is no way, there is no way and i know about this because ive talked to people in previous white houses who dealt with this, that the fbi is talking to the white house, office of personnel security and no one from the white house staff is involved. Not happening. It is not happening with senior staffer. It is not a plausible story. I think, asawin, this was an amazing quote from gidley in trying to explain this mess we is we lean on a process here at the white house. That was an extremely funny line. I have never encountered a white house less concerned with process than this one. How about you . If by process, mr. Gidley meant the process that is currently the Standard Operating Procedure of the Trump Administration, which is chaos, to chaos, careening from selfinflicted crisis to crisis, he is actually correct in that. I would be repolice not to say happy infrastructure week to everybody watching right now. But the senior officials who i have spoken to in in white house have been telling us at the daily beast uniformly that the past seven days of the rob porter scandal and the fallout coming from it has implicated a bunch of senior officials in the Trump White House. They have not seen anything like this since the immediate aftermath of the comey firing back in may. And that is saying something. Jonathan lemire and asawin suebsaeng, great to have you both. Joined by Maxine Waters of california, democratic congresswoman. What do you make of the shifting stories coming from the white house on this matter . I think the discussion that you have had this evening really does define what is absolutely wrong with this white house. The lies, the distortions, the confusion, the chaos, it is pathetic. And, of course, they are all being revealed in what is an attempted coverup. Who knew what and when did they know it. It is coming out despite the fact that they have tried to you know, tell different stories about when they knew about porter, what they thought once they learned about the fact that hes a wife beater when one of his wives was shown with a black eye, then all of a sudden, kelly tried to say that oh, he did not know that. He was shocked by it. And at one point, he certainly had defended him and it sounds as if even today, hes saying that he thought that he had done things correctly. He lied about the fact that he had been fired or whether or not had he quit voluntarily. And then sarah Huckabee Sanders who has tried to defend somebody, everybody all of those who were involved in this confusion has just made it more difficult for anybody to be believe them. But of course, i want you to know, ive never believed kelly. Dont forget, he is the one that lied on a congresswoman and said that she was an empty barrel. And then supposedly quoted what she had said only to have been found to have lied when the video was shown about her speech that day. And he has refused to apologize. So he has no credibility. Im not surprised that hes lying about what he knew, when he knew it, whether or not he fired porter, or whether or not he quit voluntarily. It is a mess. The fact of the matter is porter was a wife beater. He had been proven to have beaten two of his wives, and the way that they have described their beatings, he was brutal. And so they are trying to cover it up. He was in for a promotion and they had know he had not passed his security clearance and probably this is why. I should note he denies the allegations. It is alleged at least as far as we are concerned journalistically although there is corroborative evidence from both women, jenner fer colbie. What do you think it says the president bemoaning the lack of due process, the white house says they take violence very seriously. What do you make of that . This president does not have a record of support for the women. He has demeaned women. He has supported those who have violated women. Dont forget, you know, he supported a pedophile candidate for the United States senate. So whether were talking about spousal abuse, wife beatings, or whether were talking about the violation of women and children, he does not have a record of having supported women anytime anyplace anywhere. And no, hes not said anything about the victims because he really does not care. He believes, i think that he believes that porter is okay. That he wanted to keep him. He wanted to promote him. Despite the fact that i think that not only did we have others who knew about his past, but i think the president knew. I am saying that i believe that. And so im not. I should be clear, theres no evidence you have directly of that. We havent seen reporting of that. You just suspect that. Of course. Listen, we are you know, sensible human beings. The average logical person looking at what has happened in this white house could easily conclude that they all knew, including the president. I believe that. No, i dont have any documentation for that, but i think the testimony today of the fbi director should tell you something. Congresswoman match even waters thank you for your time tonight. Youre welcome. Next, today we found out the president has not asked anyone to lift a finger to prevent 2018 Russian Election interference which is already happening at least according to folks that testified on the hill today and the director of National Intelligence beak says the president s soninlaw should not have unfettered access to information. The growing gap in the white house in two minutes. Todays smoking gun from the fbi director Christopher Wray, the fbi Background Investigation of rob porter was complete even though the white house had repeatedly pushed the idea the process was still ongoing and it raises questions about the status of none other than the president s own soninlaw and Senior Adviser Jared Kushner not to mention dozens of others reportedly still working at the white house with temporary clearance. According to wrays testimony, the fbi submitted its partial report on porter. In late july, they completed their background information. White house requested a followup provided by the fbi in november. In january of this year, porters file was administratively closed. Yet he remained in his staff secretary position with just an interim security clearance. What about all the other people still working right now in the white house without permanent security clearance people like Jared Kushner who according to the Washington Post has been allowed to see materials including the president s Daily Briefing among the most sensitive in government. The director of National Intelligence was asked about precisely that today. Here is what he said. I think sometimes it is necessary to have some type of preliminary clearance in order to fill a slot. But i have publicly stated if that is the case, the access has to be limited in terms of the kind of information they can be in a position to receive or not receive. The process is broken. It needs to be reformed. Richard painter former chief white house ethics lawyer, chris lu, assistant to president barack obama. Chris, given what we know now, does it appear to you they were using temporary clearance as essentially an end run around the fact that the background check had come back and there had been probably a recommendation if never committed to paper that he not get a permanent clearance . Youre absolutely right. Somebody in the white house or in the west wing gamed the system to keep porter in on his clearance as long as possible. We now know that as early as march red flags were raised. Somebody at that point should have taken action to get to the bottom of this quickly and if necessary move him out of the position. The idea that sanders is pushing somehow the personnel Security System is at fault here or was in investigating this is absurd. That was a relatively small office. Their job is not to do investigations nor to make final decisions. Richard, you were in the White House Counsels Office in george w. Bush. I dont know the degree to which you personally handled clearances because you worked on ethics. My question as a white house lawyer, if something liking this comes to you as a white house lawyer, the fbi says these women say this about him and heres the evidence and youre managing the process, is it a hard call, an easy call . What do you do . No, its an easy call. You dont hire him. You dont bring him into the white house. You dont have to have proof that he actually beat his wives. Its incorrect, i disagree with congresswoman awards who says hes a proven wife beater. Hes not. Theres no proof of that. Thats not the standard. With allegations this serious from multiple sources, its enough to say that he shouldnt be working in the white house. He would not have had any job in the Bush White House or the Obama White House to the best of my knowledge someone with that type of background problem. You dont need to prove hes a wife beater. We shouldnt be arguing about this at this point. He should never have been there to begin with. Political people made the decision. Its not career people making the decision what to do about these types of allegations. It went to the west wing and somebody wanted to keep him on anyway. Now theyre paying the price for it. Then Jared Kushner and other people who lied about their contacts with the russians, once again, those people would not be working in the bush or the Obama White House. They wouldnt be let in the door. If they were there they would be fired for lying about contacts with the russians. Whether or not they committed criminal offenses, that would be unacceptable in any white house that i know. Richard brings up the case of Jared Kushner. I guess the obvious question that jumps out, its been 13 months. Hes still on a temporary clearance. It suggests to me the very strong likelihood its exactly a parallel situation where the files come back and theyve said no, we cant do this. Theyre just essentially gaming it in exactly the same way. Is that possible . Its entirely possible. Lets be clear. It is reasonable that there are 30 to 40 people whose clearances are still outstanding right now but not assistants to the president. There are no more than 25 assistants to the president. Jared kushners one of his missions is to work on middle east peace. It is not feasible that you would not move his security clearance to the front of the queue, the same with rob 0 porter. This situation would not have occurred in the Obama White House because we would have caught it early whether it was porter or cut off kushner early enough so that we werent riding these interim clearances for months on end. Theres also a question, richard, i dont know if you know the answer to this. My understanding is that theres only so much you can actually handle and look at with a temporary clearance. Theres actually levels of classification that are only granted with permanent security clearance and theres a real question whether either of these gentlemen jared or rob were handling information they shouldnt. That might be the case. If people were handling information they shouldnt be, then you know, thats a serious breach of the law because we only allow people to have access to the information thats commensurate with their actual clearance level. Not everybody in the white house has a security clearance. And one can do a job in the white house without a security clearance. Most of the higherup people do have a security clearance, particularly in the staff secretarys office because theyre looking at everything that comes and goes from the president of the United States. Theres a lot of classified information there. But once again, i dont think anyone with these types of allegations would have allowed to have any job in the bush or Obama White House whether or not they had a security clearance. Finally, chris, its telling to me the president could grant clearance to anyone he wants to. That power adheres to the president. He did not here. It makes me think they didnt do it on purpose because that would be a Decisive Action that leaves a paper trail. That would be interesting to see. If this were a normal administration, there would be oversight hearings all over the place including the issue whether classified information was mishandled in this case. Given the processes of this white house, it is unclear as to you know, whether they raised this either to Reince Priebus in march or even to the president of the United States. It would not be inconceivable this was plagued for sometime particularly given the fact they were considering porter for a promotion. Its funny you use the phrase mishandling of classified materials, a phrase drilled into my head in 2016 during the campaign. Thank you both. Coming up, the countrys top intelligence officials all confirm what the president wont say. Russian interference is real. It happened in 2016 and it is still happening now. Thats next. Jimmys gotten used to his whole room smelling like sweaty odors. Yup, hes gone noseblind. He thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this. Luckily theres febreze fabric refresher for all the things you cant wash. It finds odors trapped in fabrics and washes them away as it dries. And try pluggable febreze to continuously eliminate odors for up to 45 days of freshness. Pluggable febreze and fabric refresher. Two more ways to breathe happy. In a stark break with their boss, the president of the United States today americas top intelligence officials affirmed to the Senate Intelligence committee that the russian government successfully interfered in our elections in 2016 and said russia now is actively targeting the midterm elections in 2018. We expect russia to continue using propaganda social media, false flag personas, sympathic spokesmen and other means to be try to build on its wide range of and exacerbate political fissures in the United States. There should be no doubt russia perceived its past efforts as successful and views the 201 u. S. Midterm elections as a potential targets for russian influence operations. President trump has repeatedly dismissed the notion of russian interference in the election suggesting he believes Vladimir Putins denials. Today chris wray said trump has not asked the agencyings to stop russia from intruding again. Has the president directed you and your agency to take specific actions to confront and blunt russian influence activities that are ongoing . Were taking a lot of specific efforts to blunt. Directed by the president . Not as specifically directed by the president. Senator angus kick implored the intelligence officials an raid before him to do their best to convince the president to just at least take the issue seriously and 0 believe america over russia. I understand the president s sensitivity whether his campaign was in connection with the russians. Thats a separate question but there is no question weve got before us the entire Intelligence Community that the russians interfered in the election in 2016. Theyre continuing to do it and theyre a real threat to our elections in a matter of eight or nine months. My problem is, i talk to people in maine who say the whole thing is a witch hunt and a hoax because the president told me. I just wish you all could persuade the president as a matter of National Security tore separate these two issues. We cannot confront this threat which is a serious one with a whole of government response when the leader of the government continues to deny that it exists. Do you agree with director pompeo that we havent seen a significant decrease in the russian activity and we have every expectation i think director coates youve alluded to this, that theyll try to continue to intervene in our elections in 2018 and 2020. I agree with director pompeos assessment. I agree with director pompeo. This is not going to change or stop. Throughout the entire community, we have not seen any evidence of any significant change from last year. That was the scene at the Senate Intelligence committee today where the nations top intelligence officials testified that russia continues to work to intervene in our elections. And said that President Trump has not asked them to stop russia from meddling again. Joining me now democratic senator Amy Klobuchar from minnesota out with a new plan to deter russia from future interference. What was striking today, the hearing was just, the president never told anyone this is a priority, that he cares about it. He doesnt even seem to recognize that it happened. Can anything be done in absence of that crucial step . Well, first of all it, was an unbelievable moment, chris, because you have the six security heads not from the obama administration, but from the Trump Administration. Fbi, cia, director of intelligence, and they all said the same thing. That russia in the words of intelligence head cotes is bolder, they are emboldened basically to do this again. So what can we do . First of all, the fact these Intelligence Security heads have admitted that this is a real possibility is a good step, right . Its like admitting you have a problem. But then the second thing is what you do to fix it. And that is what i spoke out this week at the center for American Progress along with former hope land security head jeh johnson. And these are the points. Number one, we need to invest in our state security election equipment. Were talking about some states who havent updated theirlection equipment for over ten years. I have a bipartisan bill with senator lankford to do just that. The cost of 3 of one aircraft carrier. Thats number one and the second is to do something about the social media ads and the paid ads, which again, they admitted at this hearing quite honestly that there isnt a plan to do anything about that either. So theres sort of three vectors weve seen. Theres what you talk about the probing that happened fairly cursory. Doesnt look like actual manipulation happened of voting systems. So you have a bill to sort of beef up security grants and best practices to give those to the states. And provide for auditing afterward because ten states dont even have that. The paper ballot idea. Probably have regardless of whatever foreign add ser varies are doing. On the second question, it seems like thats a tricky area. I want to get to the third thing, intrusions and hacks. On the second activity it, seemed some of the intelligence heads said today look they are still doing that stuff, bots, social media, all that stuff. That is strange territory in terms of what is and within the law, what can and and the be regulated. This is the ultimate fake news. And there are one part of in that isnt strange is that you already have a set of rules in place in america for paid political ads. For newspapers, print tv. It says you have to put disclaimers on them whether they are candidate ads or issues of National Legislative importance which is 90 of what the russians bought with rubles. You can apply those same rules to the big social Media Companies and basically say you have to have disdetailers, not too radical. I dont think this is strange territory and you have to disclose them. Thats what the honest ads act does, the billy introduced with senator mccain and senator warner. But theres nothing in the law or even conceivably constitutionally if the gru wanted to set up a troll farm where they create a lot of unanimous Facebook Accounts and twitter accounts think apparently they have been doing, that seems like a tough thing to legislate. Not really. The law says were not supposed to have foreign interference in our elections. What this is about is enforcement. It is about pushing the social Media Companies to come forward when this happens to monitor it, to do as much as we can to put rules in place that says that that is illegal and to spell it out and tell them they have to come forward with it. Its just wrong. Finally, the most important thing it seems are the hacks. That was really when we talking about everything russia did, the biggest thing was criminal sabotage noon inbotches that had a huge effect on the coverage. That seems like both the most dangerous in some ways kind of the easiest. Its not that hard to hack someones inbox who is around a campaign and the thing its hardest to address. I also think by the way, very appealing to the public because everyone superiors their own privacy. They dont want to see the hacks whether theyre in business, whether theyre in a nonprofit or political campaign. This means upgrading our nations security, doing what we havent done which our security heads honestly admitted today we have not done on a National Basis inner agency. I keep emphasizing this. The bill alone just for the Election Security is only 3 of one aircraft carrier. Why when these other countries particularly russia are engaging in cyber warfare and the Trump Administration wanted to put so much money into defense, why are we not putting that money, as well or taking part of it and put it into our Cyber Protection on both the private citizen basis and the political basis . Its not happening. I think we have basically we have 265 days to go, chris, before this election. 265. I say this, you know, hack us once, shame on them. Hack us twice, shame on us. So the people who are blocking this from happening that arent doing anything, the president is not calling on a Security Apparatus to protect us on the cyber warfare, they are going to be responsible for their if it happens again. Senator Amy Klobuchar, thanks for being with me tonight. Still ahead the trump budget is out and filled with policies straight from fox news programming. And a house divided in tonights thing 1, thing 2. Next. Jimmys gotten used to his whole room smelling like sweaty odors. Yup, hes gone noseblind. He thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this. Luckily for all your hardtowash fabrics. Theres febreze fabric refresher. Febreze doesnt just mask, it eliminates odors youve. Gone noseblind to. And try Febreze Unstopables for fabric. With up to twice the fresh scent power, youll want to try it. Again and again and maybe just one more time. Indulge in irresistible freshness. Febreze unstopables. Breathe happy. Thing 1 tonight, all kinds of 2018 story lines forming. The democrats just flipped another state Senate District tonight in florida. But one out of wisconsin caught our eye. Donna and Michael Nicholson are supporting democrat Tammy Baldwin as she tries to hold on to her Wisconsin Senate seat . 2018. Federal Campaign Records show Donna Nicholson has made 15 donations to her campaign since 2012 for a total of 441. This time around, they are in all the way. Donna, michael each donated 2700 to baldwin in december 2017. In other words, the highest donation theyre legally allowed to make which prompts the question why . Why the drastic increase in donations . Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that donna and michaels son is a Republican Senate candidate running to unseat democrat Tammy Baldwin. Thats thing 2 in 60 seconds. Republican Senate Candidate Kevin Nicholson is running to unsee the Tammy Baldwin in wisconsin but he likes to say he comes from a family of democrats. In fact, he used to be one himself. He was the president of the College Democrats of america even spoke at the 2000 democratic convention. He had a change of heart while serving in iraq in 2007 telling politico he was fed up with antiwar rhetoric coming from democrats. The war had no such effect on his parents. He said his parents have a different world view than i do. It is not surprising they would support a candidate like Tammy Baldwin who shares their perspective. Months after he announced he would be seeking the Republican Senate nomination in wisconsin, after his parents donated the absolute maximum amount possible to his democratic opponent. Kelvin helen roys, a democrat took pity tweeting must admit i feel bad for the guy. His own parents are willing to pay to prevent him from achieving his dream, most scorching burn ever. If your moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis or crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough, it may be time for a change. Ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohns. Entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. Entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. Pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. This condition has not been reported with entyvio. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flulike symptoms or sores. Liver problems can occur with entyvio. If your uc or crohns treatment isnt working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. Entyvio. Relief and remission within reach. Donald trump says we need less immigration, even Legal Immigration in order to make America Great again. Tonight updates on two stories that show his approach is having the opposite effect on american greatness. First remember the kansas chemistry professor arrested last month while peopling to take his daughter to school . He was already on a plane back to bangladesh when he was pulled off at a refueling stop in la where hes now being held in detention. You see, officials had tried to deport him before an Immigration Panel granted the 30yearold 30 year kansas resident a temporary stay. Jamal is stick in limbo. His wife and three children are trying to get him back. Last thursday in the seattle suburb, Wilson Rodriguez saw someone he thought was trying to break into his car. He worried for his familys safety and called 911. Police arrived on the scene, apprehended the trespasser and then arrested wilson. He came to america escaping violence in honduras. After he called police last thursday, police discovered he had an outstanding immigration warrant and turned him over to i. C. E. Ez is now awaiting deportation because he called the police against an intruder. After yet another local uproar, the police are now saying officers will not be responsive to administrative barnetts issued by the u. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement nor will it collaborate with the agency. Why wouldnt you want to arrest and deport undocumented people calling 911 for help . Take it from then mayor of new york Rudy Guiliani who said in 1996, everyone should understand it the practicality of wanting undocumented immigrants to feel comfortable reporting criminals to police. Reporting criminals protects all people. Citizens and noncitizens alike. It makes absolutely no sense to create a disincentive for immigrants to report crimes. In other words, deporting people who called the police help, who call the police for help hurts americans so i ask again, why are we doing this . Meet jason, food stamp meet jason, food stamp recipient. I got my rainbow roll, salmon, eel, yellow tail with rice and then they had lobster on special. President donald trump is exploiting the conservative myth of the food stamp that solves no problems but creates a few. Cut back on food stamps and deliver a box of food every month instead which means trumps Big Government nanny state would tell 16 low income households what to eat. She covers Economic Policy and been working on a book about anti poverty policy and giving people money to deal with problems. You had a great tweet storm about this policy. What do you make of it . Its a very complicated proposal. Instead of sticking with the food stamp system, which works well, the snap system as it is, so the government would take some proportion of peoples benefits and send them as a box of food and this raises a lot of questions how much would it cost to send the box . How much what would you do if your box went missing and would you have any choice what is in the box . How would the government create an apparatus to buy and distribute this food . Its a complicated and surprising proposal because its a government getting into the business of direct Service Provision instead of providing what is a voucher you can use in a local business. Here is what i thought was funny. It is the least conservative idea i heard at some level. Its like a soviet style solution, right . But its done because its reverse engineered around the fox news documentary that the thought that somewhere someone is getting over because they are using a food stamp to buy a lobster. Well, you know, what is amazing the theory conservative put forward being against welfare and most entitlements is number one that people make better decisions for themselves than the government and then number two, the more we do for them, the less likely they are to learn that. So if we get all the way to the point where were literally choosing food for people and you have operated under this theory that thats the fastest way to create a welfare mentality, i mean, youre moving straight into like you said, it does sound communist. This sounds like something i would hear from cuba, you know. Its insane to me that this is what they are proposing. Just to be clear, the way food stamps work now, you have a debit card usually and it has a certain allotment, its not a lot of money. You go to stores that accept and it pick out groceries. There is a lot of things you cant buy, a lot of things like tooth paste that arent food but what they will replace it with, some Big Government agency will choose shelf goods that stay okay on a shelf like Peanut Butter and get you a box of provisions, what do you think you cover anti poverty policy. What is going on here in the way people think about poverty and how to deal with it . Its a perplexing proposal because what weve generally seen from conservatives is increasing restrictions what you can buy with food stamps. You cant buy junk food and dont want you to be able to buy lobster or attach more work requirements and shorten the period you can get these. These are out of left field or right field. Its an unusual proposal in the sense were like we are actually just going to give you these items and youre not going to have much choice and create this whole complicated system to get them to you. Its really surprising and again, this is not something weve seen coming out of conservative think tanks or the conservative movement. Its shocking and a question that hasnt really been adequately answered yet. Where did this come from . Problem are you solving . It seems like there is an emotional or sort of medical requirement, which are bad policy for a lot of reasons on the merits but someone somewhere is getting over. Well, you know, in someways it seems, you know, again, im just guessing because im the same. I have no idea where this came from. I never heard anything like this before. It seems like they are saying lets make this as miserable as possible so people wont want to do this and disincentive as a conservative philosophy. Maybe i should stop calling myself a conservative. I dont understand how that became part of it. We talk about profit motive and incentivizing people. You cover this, this is basically d. O. A. And congress. There is no way they will try to create a Food Distribution system of the United States. I would be very surprised if they did but one thing that i dont think is within this proposal, there is 200 billion in cuts. That would be more straightforward to implement and could possibly come up in this budget future budget. Look for that. They will look to cut food stamps and that will be the beginning of the cuts for these programs. Thanks for being here. That is all in for this evening. Tonight the Trump White House under siege. Day 7 contradicted on basic facts by the fbi director and the president avoiding two chances today to side with victims of abuse. Plus chief of staff john kelly called a big fat liar by a white house official in the the Washington Post as he and white House Counsel don megan face serious questions about what they knew and when they knew it. And theres this, across town on the hill today one of our intelligence chiefs warned us america is under attack. All part of the 11th hour as we get under way on a tuesday night. Well, good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 390 of the Trump Administration, and this was day