New questions about Paul Manafort as the white house keeps trying to disown him. You pull out a gentleman who was employed by someone for five months. All in starts now. Good evening from new york, im joy reid in for chrisayes. Athis hour, House Republicans have just finished meeng to try to find a way forward after a day of frenzy and failure on capitol hill. According to reporting from inside the room, the president wants a vote tomorrow and says he is done negotiating. More on that shortly. And today, of course, is the seventh anniversary of the Affordable Care act and it was today that republicans were finally supposed to pass their bill to repeal and replace obamacare. Even though obamacare is actually becoming quite popular while virtually no one seemed to like the bill that House Speaker paul ryan foisted on his members. Reporter couple clarifications. You said there is only plan a. Right. Reporter at this point, is there an acknowledgment that there needs to be a plan b if this doesnt snap. No. Plan a. So republicans started the day without the votes to pass their bill but they and the white house tried to sound confident. Members of the skeptical House Freedom caucus went to the white house to meet with donald trump and they gave the president a standing ovation when he walked into the room. A white house staffer tweeted out a photo with the caption big momentum toward repeal and replace. It was at that meeting that the white house presented Freedom Caucus members with what they said was a final offer, a version of the bill that they could either accept or reject, no plan b. There was just one big problem. Most of the Freedom Caucus members, they went with rect. Reporter if they vote today the bill will go down . There are not enough votes as of 1 30 today. Reporter what are the concessions the president is offering . There were no new concessions. I dont think there can be a vote tonight because they dont the votes. Im still a no at this time. Im desperately trying to get to yes. I. Speaker ryan scrambling for votes twice delayed a planned press conference and by 3 30 it was official. The vote had been canceled after ryan and other gop leaders failed to win the support necessary to pass the bill which, for the purposes of tonight well call trump ryancare. But apparently nobody bothered to tell the trump in trump ryancare because while the bill was going down in flames the president was busy making these comments from the white house. Today the house is voting to repeal and replace the disaster known as obamacare. Well see what happens. Its going to be a very close vote. No, they werent doing that. Again, republicans say that wont happen tonight, a disappointment for those who hoped for a big win repealing and replacing obamacare on its seventh birthday. Take that, obama. The attempt at symbolic destruction on this day was not lost on democratic leader of the house nancy pelosi. I dont know if you want to call this on trumps part a rookies error. But you dont find a day and say were going to pass a bill. You build your consensus and your caucus and when youre ready you set the date to bring it to the floor. Rookies error, donald trump. You may be a great negotiator, roies error for bringing this up on a day when clearly youre not ready. So much shade. Republicans have not given up. Late this afternoon breitbarts steve bannon who brought the altright to the white house and his new best friend Reince Priebus went to capitol hill to meet with ryan and the Freedom Caucus. While trump tried to win over moderate republicans at the white house. The white house says it wants a vote by tomorrow and that the president will move on to other things if it fails. Joining me now, kasie hunt. Kas kasie, thats stunning. The white house says they chose to do this first before doing other things and the white house says if they dont get this through by tomorrow morning theyre done . You mean donedone . President trump has run out of patience, joy. That does not seem out of line with the way he approached other things, he set a hard deadline for these members of congress in the sand and hes apparently sticking to it. Now were hearing theyre going to vote at approximately 8 00 in the morning on a procedural vote but that one that will be a critical test vote that will show exactly whether or not or will give us an idea, anyway, of whether this is headed to victory or to defeat. Now, this is not typically how business is done. Of course this is really putting Republican Leadership in a potentially difficult spot, potentially embarrassing spot. Normally if you have something that doesnt have the votes you dont put it on the floor at all. That doesnt seem to be how President Trump wants to do business. His top three lieutenants, steve bannon, Reince Priebus, Kellyanne Conway were all behind doors meeting with this republican conference into the night here. We have yet to see speaker ryan come out of that room and formally talk about any of this or let us know how he sees how this process is going. It seems like full speed ahead but we dont know if it will be victory or failure. Do you get theres a sense that theres something substantive and policy wise the white house or do they just want something to pass . I think President Trump just wants a deal at this point. He wants a deal that doesnt strip away one of the things weve talked about is the fact theres a big disconnect between what President Trump called for on the campaign and what these conservatives want and that has been a point of tension. We are now having conversations around kids who are allowed to stay on their parents insurance and preexisting conditions and you had moderates say forget that, theres no way im voting for that. That would violate promises the president made on the campaign trail. Its all about getting a deal and the president is ready to walk away. Thank you, kasie hunt. Im joined by john yarmouth. Im not sure if you were able to hear kasie but im stunned that the white house just wants a deal, any deal of the policy impact, including his own supporters. What do you make of that . Well, this has been a fiasco from day one, joy, because donald trump didnt know this scomplicated. He thought this was an easy ideological or political deal. When your playing warned the health care of 300 million americans, the Americans Care about far more than your political ideology or desire to cut taxes for the wealthiest americans. They dont care. They want to know how it impacts them and their families and the republicans havent done any havent made any inroads into trying to explain to americans how this benefits them and, of course, it doesnt. It makes the Current System far worse. And you have now some polling thats. Theres a fox news poll, i love that its a fox news poll, that shows that when americans are asked whats the one thing you want donald trump to get done as president create jobs up there at the top at 33 . Destroy isis 23 , cut taxes, 10 . Repeal and replace obamacare is way down there toward the bottom at 7 . Your colleagues on the other side of the isaisle seem to thi this is the most important thing to do. Is this a priority coming out of the white house or is this paul ryans dream that your colleagues are voting on . This is paul ryans ambition. Hes wanted to black grant medicaid and send it to the states and he wants to cut the taxes imposed under the Affordable Care act to help pay for health care which total about a trillion dollars over ten years. So that was the motivation behind this bill from the leaderships perspective. Cut taxes for the wealthy in corporations, cut back on assistance for low income americans and thats all that matters to them. They were never concerned about how to improve the health care of the American People. You serve with paul ryan, you work there with him on the day to day basis. If he were to succeed in getting to do this, in cutting medicaid in draconian fashion, in having this massive tax cut and basically deregulating the Health Insurance market, do you think that he would then move on to Something Like medicare . Is there any limit to the number of social programs that, in your view, paul ryan would go after in this manner . There is no limit, joy. Hes been very, very public. He wants to voucherize medicare. He wants to turn it into the private insurance system, give seniors a little bit of money and say go out and buy insurance and good luck to you. Thats been his public position for many years now. He wants to dismantle the social safety net of this country, he always has. The American People know better. They are concerned about themselves and their families. Do a whip count for me. How many members of the house of representatives do you think are equally in favor of dismantling the entire social safety net. How many republicans are in favor of that. If i had to guess i would say 100. Wow. Maybe not quite that many but close. All of the Freedom Caucus. There are republicans who say the more we can take of government and put it back in the private sector the better off well be. What theyre trying to do is accomplish something thats not been done anywhere else in the world. There is no Free Market Health care system anywhere else in the world. Every industrialized nation has a government organized or financed health care system. Absolutely. And right now we do, too. Lets see if we can keep it. Congressman john yarmouth, thank you for joining me, appreciate. It thank you, joy. Im joined by Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin and msnbc contributor charlie sykes, the editor of right wisconsin and a new york city congratulations, welcome to nyc. You understand these wisconsin guys better than most of us. Paul ryan does seem to be he seemed to go from completely ambivalent about trump to semi hostile to trump to literally giddy, giggling on the phone with conservative radio hosts, giddy about the prospect of dismantling the Affordable Care act. Are we seeing the demolition of Donald Trumps dream about repealing and replacing obamacare or is this ryans dream were debating . Look, a couple days ago i assumed this was going to pass because it had to pass. This is stunning whats about to happen to trumps presidency and ryans speakership when you think about it. Sometimes bills pass because the alternative is unthinkable. We are in day 63 of the Trump Presidency. And his signature number one piece of Domestic Legislation might go down in flames. The pressure will be tremendous overnight but theres no question about it. The entire trump ryan relationship was based on, look, im going to look the other way, im going to swallow all of my reservations i have that about donald trump and what donald trump says because of this moment. Because we will be able to get this legislation passed and signed and now thats falling apart and so the consequences for the Trump Presidency are dramatic. The consequences for the trump ryan relationship are dramatic and, of course, this raises fundamental questions about whether or not republicans actually have the ability to govern after eight years in the wilderness. And Jennifer Rubin, that is the point, right . Republicans have always said to their voters if you just give us unified control of the government, give us the house, the senate, the white house, we promise we will repeal and replace and get rid of obamacare, which is this sort of amorphous thing people didnt think they liked and then they found that, oh, wait, thats my health care, thats my hundred and now you have this new cbo score that comes out and says that even the new bill, the new version, would knock 24 Million People off of the Health Insurance rolls. It would reduce the deficit by 337 billion, the new one is now only 150 billion so it cuts the deficit reduction down and it would raise premiums on people by 15 . I am really baffled by how there are so many republicans who say thats actually not cruel enough, we wont support it unless you also take away the mandates for Insurance Companies providing Maternity Care. Yeah. This is a far cry from donald trump wanting to cover everybody and give you Something Better than the Affordable Care acting. So i think weve seen exactly where this entire sort of bedfellow of convenience thing breaks down. The hardline republicans, as charlie and others have said, really want to get rid of this and they want to return to some make believe time because, frankly, even before we had obamacare, the Health Care Market was nonexistent. We have an obligation to treat people in this country. So the only question is whos going to pay for it. Donald trump gave the impression during the campaign that poor people and elderly people and the sick were not going to have to shoulder most of this themselves. But thats not paul ryans view. Thats what theyre doing. Theyre unbundling insurance. Theyre removing the risk spreading and putting it back on individuals and, gosh, that turns out to be really unpopular and thats the problem that they run into, that this does affect real peoples lives, that this is nothing like what people thought they were getting which was a reduction in the outofpocket costs, it was a reduction in their deductibles that they wanted and instead theyre getting something horrible. Thats why 17 of the people only support this and well over 50 oppose it. I want to know who those 17 are. Probably people with insurance. Let me play real quickly this paul ryan sound because its pretty extraordinary charlie. This is paul ryan talking about his driving dream. Were talking about hundreds of billions a year throughout the country. This is this is so much bigger by orders of magnitude than welfare reform because, let me just describe exactly what this bill does for conservatives. This is why im so excited about it and this is why i think people need to see the forest for the trees. We are defederalizing an entitlement, block granting it back to the states and capping its growth te. Thats never been done before. Correct. Charlie sykes, you did conservative talk radio for a long time. Did you get the sense that the people who listen to your show want to get rid of, defederalize things like medicaid that many of them use . Well, i think one of the things we found out back in 2016 was that maybe conservatives were not that conservative. There was not a large number of people that when you actually confront them with dismantling Something Like this that theyre going go along with it. But what paul ryan said there was significant because the reality is is that what theyre trying to do has never been done before. Think about it. Weve never rolled back one of the entitlements, republicans never rolled back the new deal. They never rolled back the great society. So this was a really heavy lift and i dont think they should be shocked to realize that this was actually very, very difficult. I mean, this should be predictable that when you begin taking things away, when you have youre firing real bullets that this is politically problematic. And you cant even get a reality show tv star to sell it for you because it still doesnt work. And now trump is like ill drop it tomorrow, fine. Ill just drop it. Very crazy. Jennifer rubin and charlie sykes, thank you very much. Coming up, much more on this huge giant massive failure in the early days of the Trump Administration. Namely, trumps inability to rally republicans around the Central Party promise of taking down obamacare. So what was actually in the mystery bill that went down in flames today . And what do the republicans who held out want to let insurance do to consumers without the protections of obamacare . That that have twominute break. Look at how this bill was written. Can you say it was done openly . With transparency and accountability . Without back room deals and struck behind closed doors . Hidden from the people . Hell no you cant have you read the bill . Have you read the reconciliation bill . Have you read the managers amendment . Hell no, you havent that was thenrepublican leader of the house john boehner. Dont you miss him . Seven years ago railing against obamacare, a bill that was in the works for months before it finally passed. Joining me now is former cigna Health Executive wendall potter and msnbc anchor ali velshi. Wendall, i have to go to you first, that sound is ever green. The thing they were upset about is that they hadnt had enough time to read the bill but this bill is getting rushed through and in the negotiations, its been less than a month that theyve been cooking this thing up, the dealmaking is coming down to stuff like this, the holdouts, the House Freedom caucus says the bill is still too liberal because while it takes 24 Million People and kicks them off of Health Insurance, they want essential Health Benefits under obamacare also gone and that means outpatient care, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, these are the prolife people, lab services, preventative sees, prescription drug, rehabilitative services, pediatric. You get the point. How can it be that these are the things they think the people that the voters want . Theyre listening to Health Insurance company lobbyists and they i guess they think those lobbyists are the proxy for regular people. And theyre certainly being fooled. In fact, theyre being played by the Insurance Industry, joy. The Insurance Industry knows that they can appeal to the ideology of the House Freedom caucus. They talk the free market and they know that resonates with these folks and theyre selling them a bill of goods. What they would be doing is putting their constituents into the ranks of the underinsured. Yeah, they might theoretically have coverage but it would allow the Insurance Companies to shift more and more and more of the cost of actual care from them to their enrollees. So its a sweet deal for the Insurance Industry and im certain that behind the scenes theyre really trying to talk this up. And ali, let me let you hear sean spicer who was out there today guaranteeing there was no plan b and there was going to be a vote, only to be made a fool of yet again by the vote being pulled and the rug being pulled out from under him. This was sean spicer explaining the logic of getting rid of Maternity Care as a benefit under obamacare. Older men, older women who had gone past maternity age were buying benefits that wert neceary for them. I think if youre older man you can generally say youre not going to need Maternity Care. That a strong argument in your view, ali velshi . Its a zero argument. Let me tell you first of all, i was talking about this when obamacare came on. The single payer system does actually work, it doesnt necessarily in and of itself Lower Health Care costs, but its based on the idea that absolutely everybody is in the risk pool. So when 100 of people have maternity coverage, only 50 of them can potentially ever have babies, right . Because half of them are men, thats how the population of the world breaks down. When 100 of people have Prostate Cancer coverage, only 50 of them can potentially ever have cancer but as a result the Insurance Company knows that 50 will never claim for Prostate Cancer and 50 will never claim for maternity and everybody gets to pay a relatively low rate more to a singlepayer system like canadas a rate the size of the shape of my head. Zero. The other thing thats the shape of my head is the number of free market Health Insurance systems there are in the world. Its a fallacy. It simply doesnt work because as wendall can tell you, forprofit Insurance Companies exist for profit which means they will not willingly insure people who are high risk without some sort of offset. And the offset has to be a big pool or everybody or a bunch of notsick people. So now when you carve out these essential Health Benefits, ten of them that you had on the screen there, for most people that represents any potential illness or treatment that you could actually seek. So, sure, if you take all of those out, insurance will be pretty cheap. I would personally insure people if i could guarantee not to pay forny of those things on the list. So is just im a market guy, joy, you know that, im a capitalist, im a business reporter, i love capitalism, this makes no sense. And wendall, what would Insurance Companies do if you completely deregulated the market. . Would they ever insure somebodys child, lets say, who had spina bifida . Would they insure an older person or sick person willingly . No, and thats a fallacy, this free market thing. They dont want to insure people who need access to care. This i went the healthiest and the youngest so, no, they would not. Its just absurd. The whole idea of the free market working is just a fallacy, as ali said. And even the notion of competition is a fallacy as well, too. The more Insurance Companies you have, the less market power any one of them has to negotiate with doctors and hospitals. Ali, would it make more sense to fix the Affordable Care act and, briefly, what would those fixes look like . It would. Anybody who tells you the Affordable Care act is perfect, its not. First of all, it did virtually nothing on the cost side of the equation and as wendall implied and it was said ive had a lot of republican congressmen tell me the same thing, they didnt design this American Health care act with the idea that they talked a bunch of people who had a steak in the game. They talked to Insurance Companies and lobbyists and thats why this exists as it is. A real goodealt care system to be fixed needs to have a of the other constituents involved. This cant just be legislation for the Insurance Companies. So there are real fixes you can give to obamacare, but you need to actually want to fix it, not repeal it. And be able to pass it through the house of representatives where it has the Freedom Caucus which is like get rid of all of it. Wendall potter and ali velshi, thank you both. Growing concerns over yesterday piece Intelligence Committee debacle when chairman devin nunes briefed the white house and the press before talking to his democratic colleagues. One of those colleagues is here to respond after the break. Hashtag stuffy nose. Hashtag no sleep. I got it. Hashtag mouthbreather. Yep. Weve got a mouthbreather. Well, just put on a breathe right strip and. Pow it instantly opens your nose up to 38 more than Cold Medicine alone. So you can breathe. And sleep. Shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. Breathe right. At crowne plaza we know Business Travel isnt just business. Theres this. a bit of this. Why not . Your hotel should make it easy to do all the things you do. Which is what we do. Crowne plaza. Were all business, mostly. Reporter did this come from the white house . Did this information that you dot as you know, we have to keep our sources and methods here very, very quiet. Reporter youre denying any of this information came from the Trump Administration. Yeah, im not going to look, on this at this committee we are not going to ever reveal sources. House Intelligence Committee chairman devin nunes refusing to deny that the Trump Administration itself was the source of information that he personally give the president yesterday. That the Intelligence Community had incidentally collected information on people in the trump transition. Did i mention that devin nunes was himself a member of the Trump Transition Team and that the president he gave the information to is the same guy Whose Campaign is under fbi investigation . Well, today nunes reportedly apologized to the other members of the Intel Committee for not going to them first. Joining me is congressman joaquin castro, a member of the house Intelligence Committee. Congressman castro, thank you very much for being here. Thanks for having me. Sir, im old enough to remember when devin nunes complained along with every Single Member except for Ileana Roslehtinen of leaks, said they were criminal, they were wrong to have anonymous leaks showing up at the newspaper. I could have sworn that was just a few days ago. It was. Do you find it ironic that he is the person who received a leak and then disseminated it to the press and the white house . It was ironic and strange, his actions yesterday. Many of us up to that point praised how the committee had tried to work in a bipartisan way to move the investigation forward. At the same time, as you know, Many Democrats have called for an independent commission to take this out of the hands of any of the members of congress, put in the the hands of a Bipartisan Group of citizens to fully investigate, look at the evidence, and come to conclusions and so yesterday i think shook the confidence of a lot of folks. Lets play very quickly congressman nunes, the house Intel Committee chair talking about his regrets and his apology. Its just a judgment call. I mean, you know, it was my i mean, it was there was a lot going on yesterday and it was a judgment call on my part and thats at the end of the day thats sometimes you make the right decision, sometimes you make the wrong one but you have to stick by what you the decisions you make. Congressman, did that apology to the other members of the committee include a promise to show you whatever it is that he showed the white house . It did, actually. He said that he wants the other members of the committee to see it. Of course, you know, all of us are still in the dark as to what exactly he saw that led him to go over to the white house and brief thpresident , but, yeah, id love to see what hes talking about. Does it trouble you that because congressman nunes is actually was a member of the Trump Transition Team, in your view is it fitting that somebody who was on the Transition Team can be leading an investigation into what hes saying was surveillance of the same Transition Team . Well, thats why i think he really needed to be careful about his actions and not appearing to become a surrogate or an advocate for the president. I think folks on the committee are willing to give were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but, you know, when you have days like yesterday it makes that very tough. And, as i said, it really underscored why we need that independent commission most of all. Nancy pelosi went so far as to say he was a stooge of the white house. Do you believe that congressman nunes should step down as the head of this investigation . Should recuse himself . Thats a great question, joy. All over social media democrats on twitter, on facebook, all over have been saying this guy needs to resign and my one word of caution would be, you know, as bad as its been, there are actually people who could be worse that could be appointed to chair that committee so i would just be too careful. If you ask me the question i would say if you replace him, it depends who youre going to replace him with. Its like repeal and replace, the things you try to do to replace is worse. Now everyone is googling the republican members of the committee to see who youre talking about. Congressman joaquin castro, thank you very much. Thank you. Up next, why the white house is calling former Trump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort just some guy that used to be on the payroll. The continued rush by the White House Team to disown the Campaign Team trump after the break. I moved upstate because i was interested in building a career. I came to ibm to manage global clients and big data. But i found so much more. its really a melting pot of activities and people. applause, cheering new york state is filled with bright minds like victorias. To find the companies and talent of tomorrow, search for our page, jobsinnewyorkstate on linkedin. And youre about in to hit send all search for our page, on some embarrassing gas. Hey, you bought gasx® unlike antacids, gasx ® relieves pressure and bloating fast. Huh, crisis averted. Today we learned that an investigation of Paul Manafort and his business deals with prorussian actors in ukraine also extends to his dealings with the bank of cyprus which is widely known for money laundering. The Associated Press reports treasury agents in recent months obtained information connected to manaforts transactions from cypriot authorities. Meanwhile, White House Press secretary sean spicers efforts to distance manafort from the Trump Campaign has officially reached the absurd. You pull out a gentleman who was employed by someone for five months and talk about a client he had ten years ago. Reporter the gentleman, manafort, youre referring to was the campaign chairman. I get it, right, right, i understand who he is. Joining me now is the reporter who followed Paul Manafort closely during the election. Franklin ford, staff writer for the atlantic. Does it surprise you that the white house is trying to disown manafort and do you see risks therein . Of course theyre trying to disown him. They mere in the thick of the scandal andedly theres one person whos a click away from the kremlin and a click away from trump and thats Paul Manafort. He spent the last decade of his life working for viktor yanukovych,residentf youk and working if a series of oligarchs who were very, very close to the kremlin. In fact, the oligarch whose name surfaced yesterday in connection to this proposal that manafort wrote was known as putins oligarch, the kremlins oligarch. He was in the inner circle of the kremlin. He was one of the few people putin trusts. So of course theyre trying to distance themselves from this guy. Do you get the sense theres so many people around donald trump that had weird affinities and maybe coincide coincidental affinities to russia, do you get the sense Paul Manafort is the man that brought the russianization of trumpism to the campaign . He started i think in the spring of last year as campaign manager. Right. Right. The truth is we dont know. He is just the when manafort was fired by trump in august, it was done quietly after news broke about payments that were found ledgers found in kiev that were payments made to manafort under the table and trump dropped him stone cold and quietly in an uncharacteristic fax for trump without a whole lot of fanfare or pushback. So we dont know who was coordinating with who but given what the fbi is investigating manafort is a close place to begin. Unfortunately we didnt Pay Attention to him for so long because he was kicked out of the campgn. A this is a little bit of an existential question but i dont know if your reporting was able to uncover how close the two men are personally such that, lets say in theory, manafort were to really get in trouble for one of these scandals. His being under investigation not only for the ukraine stuff but the bank of cyprus stuff. If he were to be faced with jail time for one of those things is he close enough to donald trump to never talk about donald trump or the campaign in exchange for giving himself an easier ride . Lets look at the scope of the relationship. It goes back a long way. Roger stone and Paul Manafort got to know donald trump in the late 70s and they started working for him in the early 1980s and they helped him with his gambling lobbying that he needed done, helped him with various little issues where he needed lobbying and manafort lived in trump tower and so they have a real long meaningful relationship and so thats the overall context. Would he the question that you ask involves a lot of layers of speculation that im not sure im equipped to go there. But its interesting. The connection between roger stone and Paul Manafort, thats interesting. Were out of time but well read your article. Well follow you on twitter. Thank you franklin foer, appreciate. It thank you. Still ahead, more on the Republican Health care implosion. Trump just wants a win after nearly two months of losing and losing and losing. The question is, is it a win at any cost . Plus, tonights thing 1 thing 2 after this short break. Wanna get away . 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Lets take a listen to what the speaker of the house is saying. Tomorrow were proceeding. Reporter do you have the vote . Do you have to votes . Do you have the votes . That was very quick. Joining me now is chris hays the host of a show called all in with chris hayes, i do believe, if i get myself properly correct. Also hes in philadelphia right now promoting his amazing new book a colony in a nation i highly recommend it, you need to read it. Its a terrific book. Hes doing that tonight and being on the show as well as Mckay Coppins who has great book but we wont promote that tonight because its chris ha s hayes show. You heard the speaker of the house say theyre going to come to a vote tomorrow morning but theres a extraordinary piece of reporting that the bowes says its one and done, you either pass it tomorrow or were dropping repeal and replace. What do you make of that . There is so much about what i want to say about what has transpired. Its your show im looking at the clock at 8 43. The ultimatum is bizarre and fascinating but it belies the fundamental truth which weve been discussing on this show all along which is that the president doesnt want to do this and doesnt care about it. In fact, the last few weeks he keeps saying i cant wait to get this done. I just cant wait to finish it so i can get to the stuff i want to do. He literally has been saying this at every event. Oh, when i get to trade, im going to crush it on trade. Well, you are doing this. So, a, not surprising. B, i mean, what is so shocking and, joy you mentioned this at the top of the show is the white house does not care what the content of the bill is. Yes. They dont care whats in the bill. The bill isnt some abstraction, its the entire Health Insurance market for a nation of 330 Million People. You cant just, like, negotiate it like youre doing a Development Deal in Atlantic City. There are policy affects that they seem to have absolutely no investment in either way. Mckay, the only thing they seemed to care about was not letting bit called trumpcare which is why everyone calls it trumpcare. But it is weird that the president made a big deal of this on the campaign trail. He was just in kentucky making a big deal about repeal and replace. Is it is this a trump characteristic . That he only cares about getting a deal and he that he doesnt seem to care at all about the contents of it . Well, chris compared it to a real estate deal in Atlantic City. With real estate deals in Atlantic City at least trump had some idea, some working knowledge of the details and cared about how it turned out. And then they all failed. Didnt his Atlantic City businesses go down in flames . Fair enough. Lets not give him too much credit. But i think the reality is here joy you earlier in the show teased a segment on the kind of legislative meltdown on capitol hill as a massive failure early in the Trump Presidency. I think President Trump who, by the way, could be watching right now, hes a wellknown cable news junky, he hates to hear that. Above all, he wants a win. He wants to be able to point to something right now and say i did that, right . I promised you i would repeal obamacare and i did it. I think chris is right that he doesnt know that much about Health Care Policy. He doesnt know anything about the legislative process. He just wants it to be done and what were seeing is the affect of that, hes making promises left and right just trying to get enough scrape enough votes to be able to win and i mean, were seeing the consequence, its not turning out well. Chris, it is stunning to me that the amount of things that have been picked up, run with like it was the most important thing and then dropped. Wheres the muslim ban . Im not saying i want them do it, but remember we were all going to die if they didnt do the muslim ban immediately and now they dont talk about it anymore. The wall. This was the most important thing and mexicos going to pay for it. These things are going away. That is a fantastic point and to be contrarian in a weird way for a moment, i think of all the bad options on the table i actually think the best bad option is to do what the president is saying which is if it fails tomorrow, leave it alone. They are it is going to be a huge political setback if this fails and i dont know if it will. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Things can change. I dont want to be telling people this thing will go down in flames because it may very well pass. But if it does fail and they drop it, the cost of substantively making Peoples Health care worse is worse than the shortterm political cost of failing to live up to the promise. As bad as thats going to be. As much as its going to invigorate the opposition, as much as its going to invite primary challenges, as Many Political headaches as that will invite because there will be the smell of defeat around the gop and around this white house, its better than passing a bad bill which im not going to get into the substance of what im reading on my phone of what the House Freedom caucus is asking for, but it will amount to a wholesale rollback of the Affordable Care act and a complete deregulation of the Insurance Industry coupled with massive subsidies which would be a recipe for essentially a million different Trump University health care Health Insurance operations to spring up and offer people scam insurance and collect federal dollars. That is what will happen if this hybrid monster were to actually become law. And sell those Trump University health plans across state lines because thats whats supposed to fix health care. Chris, let me show you this new york republican who is saying vote or be done tomorrow morning. We have to have a vote tomorrow. He expects it to pass but hes moving on. If for some reason it didnt. But his plea is to our party, our party to come together as a team and pass it. So mckay, hes talking there about the he is donald trump who he talks about like its his boss, which is weird. But you have seen at the same time republicans are doing the bidding of he, donald trump, who expect this is to be done but might they wind up feeling abandoned if they cant get it done and he moves on and says forget you guys and whatever you have to tell your people and your district, thats not my problem. Its possible. There are two ways to read the ultimatum President Trump has given. One is that its a negotiating tactic to try to scare enough people in the Freedom Caucus and other republicans into passing this bill. The other possibility is that hes framing this in a way that when it fails, when the bill fails, he can blame congress and then move on with minimal political damage to himself without too much fallout for having broken a campaign promise. I dont know which one that. Is ive heard persuasive cases by conservatives and republicans tonight going both ways the but republicans are going to have to go home and explain to their constituents why they didnt follow through on their repeal of obamacare which they have cast as a massive emergency that needs to be addressed urgently. At the same time i think a lot of republicans are calculating they dont want to go home and explain to their constituents why they passed a bill this messes up their health care and massively disrupt the health care system. Kind of . They would have to go home and say congratulations, i took away your medicaid. I dont know how they think thats good politics. Im going to keep both of these fine guests, one of whom is a guy named chris hayes. Well keep them around and take a quick break and well be right back. s another option. Drugfree aleve direct therapy. A tens device with high intensity power that uses technology once only available in doctors offices. Its wireless remote lets you control the intensity, and helps you get back to things like this. This. Or this. And back to being yourself. Aleve direct therapy. Find yours in the pain relief aisle. For seven and a half years we have been promising the American People that we will repeal and replace this broken law because its collapsing and its failing families and tomorrow were proceeding. Reporter do you have the votes . Do you have the votes . Do you have the votes . That was paul ryan moments ago emerging from a republican meeting on health care and joining me now from capitol hill is nbcs kelly odonnell. Kelly, talk about this oneanddone vote tomorrow. Will republicans have more votes tomorrow than they did tonight . The expectation as theyre laying it south tonight theyve gotten the ball rolling on procedural step that allows them to move within one day on this bill and that tomorrow theres a sequence of two votes with an expectation that if it does go forward they will vote on this by mid to late afternoon. The idea now is that there is no more negotiating to be done. Sources from the white house say they believe they will get there as well as a number of lawmakers here are saying the pressure, the lever the president used as well as House Speaker paul ryan is to say its time to deliver on a promise if you cant vote for this bill then the president is ready to turn the page. That would be a real jolt to a Republican Party that has been promising that it could deliver on the repeal of the health care law. Talking to members as they were leaving, there was a bit more optimism about the fact that its effectively game time. They have to decide. But i dont think theres any reason to believe that this is going to go through easily. Notably the House Speaker did not respond to the question about do you have the votes, just that were going to proceed. That keeps the pressure up but it certaly is not foreshadowing optimism about this. What happens if they do decide to put this aside and move forward . Next they would plan to tackle tax reform which might be less of an emotional issue on some matters compared to health care thats so personal for people. Could they get a win there and then try to come back to this . Its unclear. But this is one of those ultimatum moments, take it or leave it. Another top official said i think the republican conference will take it. Well have to see how it plays out. Joy . Thank you very much, kelly odonnell. Chris hayes and Mckay Coppins is with me. Chris, looking at the graphic that shows six of the House Republicans that turned out to be no votes and some of the places they turned out to be from are extraordinary. Leonard lance of new jersey, dave young, iowa. Jamie herrera of washington, sc scott day jar lay of the tennessee. Does this have proof that the people prevailed . That whatever promises republicans made their voters dont want this repealed . Its a great question. Theres a combination of things happening. One is that. I think a lot of the conservative objection, particularly you see it from folks like tom cotton in arkansas, rand paul in kentucky. In those states that have medicaid expansion, i think theyre attacking the bill from the right so they can preserve it from the left. I do think one of the many remarkable things about how this is playing south that the House Freedom caucus, even if i substantively object to what theyre trying to do and i think the policy theyre aiming for is bad, you have to sort of admire the fact that they have just stuck to their guns. I mean, this is just two dozen members of congress who are basically attempting to rewrite health care for the whole country and the here is its like a union strike. Its like an organizing drive, right . The sheer intensity of their solidarity, the fact that they are banded together has granted them this leverage and the only reason the threat their threat to vote no carries the weight it does is because theyve done it before. Weve watched them do this. They basically chased john boehner back to his house in ohio by doing this to him over and over and so they have a tremendous amount of leverage and thats why its a high stakes dramatic moment procedurally. David frum tweeted the republicans could use a community organizer. They basically have one, the House Freedom caucus but theyre just organizing only rich people. Quickly, mckay, what do you think ends up coming of this belated bromance between paul ryan and donald trump who inexplicably walked away from his Andrew Jackson populism to throw in with the establishment. Do you think that winds up falling apart . I think its possible though i dont know if it will be because of the fate of this bill. It might just be because Health Care Policy was an area that donald trump did not know that much about, didnt care that much about and he was happy to outsource the policy making and legislating to congressional leaders who were better versed in it. I think when we move on to issues like trade and gripilleg immigrants and infrastructure i think we could see trump take a more aggressive role wanting to lead out. And im not convinced paul ryan is going to put up that much resistance against trump. I think its possible hell follow the white houses lead from here on out. Because he didnt get his the votes you were seeing that was not them voting on health care, just procedural votes before the big one tomorrow. Chris, im wondering what you think the role of the declining it was already low but declining credibility of the white house given the lie about being wiretapped. Given the fact weve learned about the fbi investigation and the sort of drip drip drip of information on russiagate. How much do you think that played into republicans not being afraid of this white house and being willing to say no . Well, i have heard from folks on capitol hill that it makes a difference that his Approval Rating is at 37 and it makes a difference that the bill is incredibly unpopular. That does make a difference in the political calculation. In a more kind of banal human way, negotiating with someone who is a demonstrated fabricator presents credibility problems. And not just that, the lack of mastery of the policy makes it even hard to make pledges so the fact that he doesnt know he is not immersed in the the tails of how this system works means he cant make credible promises about bucket number two or things theyll push for in the senate bill which would possibly allay the fears. Thats the kind of things that the previous president was able to do when he got involved in the aca negotiations, and the thing that has hurt them, Jess Mcintosh made this point on our show, theres no animating project here. Democrats were willing to take tough votes because they believed in getting people Health Insurance. It just came down to that. It came dun to the president say youre going to walk the plank and some of you are probably not going to survive. But as a party they believed in that project. Its so unclear what the actual affirmative project here thats being pursued is. And that donald trump has an affirmative project hes pursuing other than getting deals and getting wins. It seems like the only thing he seems only in at the end of the day is winning and he doesnt really care how or what is the substance but i think youre making an important point. When you have a president who cares about health care you wind up getting a Health Care Bill thats hard to repeal. Chris hayes gets the last board here on all in tonight. Chris hayes, great book, get out there and sell that book. Mckay coppins, thank you very much for being here. Chris, youll be back here tomorrow. Thats all in for this evening. Ill be back for my show a. M. Joy at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Dont miss that. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. Are you as shocked as i am about the breathtaking speed with which donald trump stopped caring about health care . I think the hard part about that is figuring out a moment in time when he did care about health care but without that starting point i think its hard to talk about how fast he went. He said he cared abo it on the stump. Yea yes, he did. You are exactly right, my friend. Have a great show. Thank you, joy