Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20161210

And gabe sherman on his new reporting. Trump insiders comparing the mood to game of thrones. Winter is coming. When all in starts now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. There are now just 42 days to go until donald trump becomes president of the United States. With every new appointment to his administration, the bait and switch on many of the people who voted for trump continues. His closing argument, lets recall, summed up in his final campaign ad was all about how a Global Financial elite had rigged the system against working people. And it specifically called out this guy, Goldman Sachs Ceo Lloyd Blankfein as a member of the rogues gallery of plutocrats. Now almost a month later trump is set to nominate blankfeins number two to a post. Theyve asked gary cohn to serve as the director of the National Economic council and assistant to the president for economic policy. Hes worked at the bank for a quarter century, presiding over its role in packaging and selling the sub prime Mortgage Loans that precipitated the financial crisis. In 2010 email service between cohn and other executives were able to benefit from the mortgage crisis. The bank had taken advantage of its clients. Cohn testified in defense of the practices. During the two years of the financial crisis, Goldman Sachs lost money in its business. We did not bet against the clients and these numbers underscore that fact. Its useful with hindsight to criticize actions taken. Throughout the Campaign Trump attacked his opponents and Goldman Sachs in particular. Kind of a theme. After the New York Times reported that ted cruz had failed to report a loan with goldman, he made it part of his stump speech. I know the guys at Goldman Sachs. They have total, total, total control over him. Just like they have total control over Hillary Clinton. But they have no control, they have no control over donald trump. I dont want their money. I dont need their money. Now, gary cohn is the third Goldman Sachs alum, steve bannon and Steve Mnuchin both worked there before striking out on their own. Jones joins a wealthy list of plutocrats. Contrary to trumps claim of not needing donors money the Washington Post reports that hes given positions to six donors who gave 12 million to the Trump Campaign and the republican party. I talked to a trump voter who lost her home during the financial crisis when it was foreclosed on by a bank owned at the time by Steve Mnuchin, trumps pick to oversea the treasury secretary. We believed trump would be an outsider for the first time who would work for the people like his campaign promised. My only special interest, hes quoted as saying, is to you the American People, not major donors, the party or corporations. Now we want him to prove it. He said he was going to drain the swamp. Now hes filling it with alligators like mnuchin. The more we learn about trumps one real win so far on behalf of american workers, the deal to save jobs at a carrier plant in indianapolis, the less it looks like an out and out victory. First we learned that he inflated the number of jobs saved, well below the 1100 he first touted. Now it turns out those jobs still may not be around much longer. On monday, get this, the ceo of carriers Parent Company gave an interview to cnbc. Almost no one noticed this but what he said for the companys plans for the financial windfall . Well make an investment in that factory in indianapolis to automate to be more competitive. But it means there will be fewer jobs. So thanks to 7 million from the state of indiana taxpayer money, the company will be able to take that and invest and now be able to figure out how to have robots do those jobs instead of just moving them to mexico. Joining me now is senator jeff merkley. Bannon worked at goldman, mnuchin worked at goldman. Gary cohn to come over to the nec is the direct transfer of the person running goldman and a banker for 25 years to the person giving chief economic advice to the president. Its like imports goldman into the white house. My goodness, you cannot invent this stuff. Trumps campaign against wall street, says were not going to be in charge, were going to take the economy back from them. He attacks his primary opponent, ted cruz, attacks Hillary Clinton, then he says who am i going to put in charge of the American Economy . Goldman sachs, at treasury, chief negotiator, as the director of the National Economic council. This is a complete reversal from Campaign Trump who talked about taking on wall street to elected trump who is putting them straight in charge. You know what . Anthony scaramucci on the Trump Transition Committee he said this idea of populism and pitch forks and how much bankers i think across the ideological spectrum are loathed really in america since the financial crisis and theres a Certain Group of people that thinks theyve gotten a bad rap. Thats not the way you would have thought the trump folks thought. But listen to scaramucci talking about the cabal of the bankers. Is there something incongruous that donald trump ran ads that seemed to directly criticize the role that Goldman Sachs has in the economy and now filling key positions with goldman people . Well, listen, i think that the cabal against the bankers is over, and i think what mr. Trump is really trying to do right now is put the country together. The cabal against the bankers is over. Do you think thats true, senator . I think in fact trump apparently misled the American People profoundly during his campaign about what he was really up to. And theres going to be millions of americans who are saying, ha, thats one thing i really liked was he was willing ty ing to ta wall street and theyre disappointed. More broadly this conversation about draining the swamp, we didnt realize he would drain it into his cabinet in position after position after position. I want to lay out a scenario that seems quite likely to me and ask how you plan to handle it. I can imagine a president elect and the President Trump doing things like the carrier thing quite often. Taking individual sort of concrete high profile cases in which he comes in and goes after American Companies to save american jobs and he gets lots of coverage and meanwhile, in the senate, theyre gutting dodd frank, theyre gutting the aca, and i guess the question for you is what are you going to do about that when theres these sort of high profile spectacle symbolic expressions of this kind of populism and an agenda on capitol hill thats totally contrary to that . Yes, this makes you think of a magician who is performing some trick and making you concentrate on his hands while he pulls off something clever somewhere else. Just this big distraction from whats really going on. And i expect him to put on that kind of show and proceed to say, watch me over here fight for workers where meanwhile his labor secretary, at least the person hes nominated, i hope we can defeat him, is somebody who wants to suppress wages, doesnt believe in the minimum wage, has enormous number of labor violations, doesnt think his affiliate organizations of hardees and carls jr. Should even be accountable for the mistakes. And so its like crush the workers over here while i go out and talk to some plant ceo to say stay in america. I hope we do keep jobs in america, but if its just a show to distract from crushing workers thats something very different. Then let me ask you this, senator. I asked keith ellison, congressman on the other side of capitol hill last night. Obviously he has less direct power over this. Youre actually a senator. There are things that you can do. You can demand roll call votes, hearings, gum up the works, fight whoever you dont think is an appropriate nominee. Doesnt mean all of them. But the ones that you believe are bad. You can refuse to play ball and go with voice votes on that. Are you going to do that . Well start with really vetting these candidates in committee. The American People need to know, they have the right to know their full and extensive histories. Meanwhile were going to encourage grassroots organizations to use their netwoshs to educate americans on both sides of the aisle. I hope those americans are going to weigh in and say, wait a minute. Thats not the story. Thats not what we voted for. Wall streets being put in charge and people are being put in charge of the Labor Department to crush american workers. Thats not what we voted for. I hope that combination will bring some bipartisan support. And we can slow things down and make sure things are thoroughly vetted, but we actually want to fulfill our responsibility to determine whether someones a fit character, unfit character as hamilton said. And theres a lot of folks being nominated. A parade of horribles that are unfit. Theres that saying that hope is not a plan. I think bipartisan support is also not a plan in this day and age. Senator jeff merkley, i appreciate your time. Im joined by joy reid, the one and only a. M. Joy, which is a fantastic show. Thank you. Your latest piece i think is the daily beast. Daily beast, yeah. Hey, white working class, donald trump is already screwing you over. Which doesnt seem crazy contention. Not at all. The people who voted for donald trump on the basis that he was going to be the sort of working class billionaire, the blue collar billionaire who would fight for them and fight against the economic elite was a complete scam. Lets just be honest about it. He completely played these people and scammed them. Donald trump is providing bread and circuses, rallies to entertain, generals named mad dog which makes people feel good about themselves, they feel tough, lots of rhetoric, but hes staocking his administratin with the ultimate economic elite, the top 0. 1 . Does anybody in their right mind think the guy that runs carls jr. And hardees, andrew puzder, who believes robots should replace all his workers because theyll never strike, theyll never have a sick day hes on the record. Hes not embarrassed about it. Theyll never sue for discrimination. The guy who wants to replace workers with robots is your labor secretary. Thats for the working guy. Heres the thing about puzder that i find really fascinating and an important thing to say here. This idea that, oh, they voted for trump but now theyre getting billionaire. They knew trump was rich. Its not just that theres all this rich people. No. Its that theyre doctrineered down the line old style plutocrats. Puzder isnt like like donald trump with his position on trade, puzder because hes a chamber of commerce republican. Exactly. Thats the bait and switch. Not that theyre rich, but theyre doctrineaire in their right wing plutocratic ideology. They typically do usher in the economic elite who come in and pillage the economy. The people hes putting in, someone like mnuchin who literally made money taking away peoples homes if they missed a 29 cent payment, people who have been rapacious in their attacks on the working class. Not to mention the fact that theyre paired with the congress thats run by speaker of the house paul ryan who is on the record wanting to get rid of essentially i call it repeal the 21st century. They have a bill coming out in Social Security that would cut benefits, introduce means testing. This is not what the trump voter voted for. This to me is a fascinating test. You look at the cabinet, i think youre right. But theres a real question what that domestic policy agenda really is. Mcconnell wants to go aca. Ryan has had his eyes on Social Security medica. Forever. His entire career. If im trump and bannon advising trump, thats not the agenda i honestly think thats a political mistake. What do you think . Of course. Its an opportunity. If he would stand up for the working class, he should oppose all of that. Donald trump is not in a position to fight the congress when he has this giant bag of conflicts of interest rife for investigation. His party has no interest in investigating him, but if donald trump steps one foot out of the line do not make enemies of them. Do you not think they would turn on him . Who does he owe money to, Deutsche Bank . Will it be the banks of russia and china that bring him to heel . He can be brought to heel by so many people. He owes so many people who are all plutocrats and care about plutocrats. Theres one potential victim here, the very working class that voted for him. Theyre going to get played. Theyve already been played. Your prediction is its going to be because i think were watching this shape up and theres something well talk to gabe sherman about, Reince Priebus. You think it will be the ryan agenda. Weve already seen the cabinet. If its confirmed. Forget what i think. Thats what ryan thinks. He has gotten a movable feast set in front of him. Hell rip up everything fdr and lbj put into effect. If they do do that, i think its a political disaster. Its suicidal. I really do. I genuinely think that. Complete power like this, giving one party complete power, it always leads to overreach. Joy reid, thank you. Thank you very much. Coming up ill speak to an nfl player whose home was vandalized with racial slurs as well as the president elects name. An incident now being investigated by police as a hate crime. First, inside the trump transition. Infighting that one source likened to game of thrones. Energy is a complex challenge. People want power. And power plants account for more than a third of energyrelated carbon emissions. The challenge is to capture the emissions before theyre released into the atmosphere. Exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. Our team is working to make this technology better, more affordable so it can reduce emissions around the world. Thats what were working on right now. Energy lives here. Its your tv, take it with you. With directv and at t, stream live tv anywhere datafree. Join directv today starting at 35 month. No extra monthly fees. Only new alkaseltzer plus justfree of artificial dyes and preservatives liquid gels delivers the powerful cold symptom relief you need without the unnecessary additives you dont. Store manager clean up, aisle 4. Alkaseltzer plus liquid gels. Generosity is its oyou can handle being a mom for half an hour. Im in all the way. Is that understood . I dont know what shes up to, but its not good. Cant the world be my noodles and butter . Get your mind out of the gutter. Mornings are for coffee and contemplation. That was a really profound observation. You got a mean case of the detox blues. Dont start a war you know youre going to lose. Finally you can now find all of netflix in the same place as all your other entertainment. On xfinity x1. Two main factions have emerged behind the scenes in trump world. In one corner the longtime trump loyalists, the people who were there at the beginning, some are none too pleased. Many of these trump originals say theyre getting frozen out of the Trump White House and have been commiserating how they cant seem to get their calls to top trump brass returned. In the other corner gop establishment figures who may have opposed trump but now want a seat at the table. A group perhaps best represented by mitt romney who is being considered for secretary of state despite Bashing Trump during the campaign. Roger stone spoke of that group with contempt during an interview wednesday with conspiracy theorist and trump supporter alex jones. Right now there are hundreds of establishment quidlings, trojan horses trying to get into this Administration Swearing i was for trump the whole time when they werent. The adhders and the selfpromoters are marching on trump tower en masse. I mean, people are submitting their resumes to this transition who have never shared trumps philosophy. It appears tensions are high. The new York Magazine sherman says trumps Transition Team is like game of thrones with two men battles for primacy. The first is steve bannon who has been pushing trump to staff his administration with outsiders and trump loyalists. The second is his chief of staff Reince Priebus who has pushed trump to select more traditional establishment gop figures. While bannon has scored some victories, some are angry that priebus is staffing it with establishment types. One senior trump adviser telling sherman we didnt fight two years against the swamp only to bring the swamp to the white house. Joining me now Daniel Sherman at new York Magazine. You got news today about so christies basically nowhere to be found. News that giuliani is out. Christie and giuliani along with flynn publicly probably the three people you most associate. And how much of that is a sign that the reince faction is beating the bannon faction . Whats really interesting is you see two fundamental world views. You have establishment gop and steve bannon. The fact that Rex Tillerson is a front runner for secretary of state is interesting. On one hand hes exxonmobil ceo, very much of a creature of the Reince Priebus republican Business World but hes an outsider, never served in the government. In that choice you might see a candidate who can bring both things to the table. Heres what i think is interesting. Bannon, again, in terms of his ability to channel a certain kind of part of the zeitgeist and part of the zeitgeist that was channelled on his website breitbart was quite frankly disgusting and odious morally. But his connection with his his personal connection with the right wing populism in europe, that to me is a very different creature politically than Reince Priebus wisconsin scott walkerism. But were getting much more of the latter. Without question. I think whats fascinating is bannon is a big picture ideas guy, but hes not a down in the weeds lets make the trains run on time guy. Thats what Reince Priebus is doing, stacking the west wing with traditional republican operatives who know how washington work. Whoever controls schedule and message controls policy. Reince priebus wants to bring in sean spicer, the strategist and spokesperson to be the White House Press secretary. He wants katie walsh to be his deputy chief of staff. He wants to bring in joe hagen, a longtime George Bush Administration official to be head of operations which is basically human resources. This might sound like minutia no. Youll set the policy. When i was in d. C. During the Obama Administration staffing up, my wife worked in that administration, there would be positions like deputy chief of staff for ops. That doesnt sound that interests. No, ops is where all the power is. About like an army fights on its stomach. Its all about logistics, who controls that stuff frmg without question. The real stuff well see in the days ahead is who will get the rnc chair job. We have two candidates. We have romneys niece and nick ayers who is more of an outsider. Well see this playing out. Bannon really wants to control the rnc job. So that were going to see thats a real test. Yes. Ive heard from my own reporting that its extremely tense in trump tower right now. Yes. It is like people understand that theres a war happening. But its a cold war. Its fascinating when you talk to the strategists who are in the meetings with bannon and priebus and how theyre all sort of looking to each other, looking to trump. This is all below the surface. This is not outright fighting. Youre seeing this tinderbox set up where once the stakes get really high and policy needs to be set, then youll see open warfare. Like i said to joy, the place that youre going to have it really come to a head is in relationships with congress. Yes. Because that its either going to be some big infrastructure bill which seems more of the bannon vision or its going to be like, oh, weve been trying to privatize medicare 20 years. Wall street. And lets do it. And thats a real choice ahead of them and where the rubber hits the road. Bannon is not a hill guy. The fact that paul ryan and the republicans on the hill are going to control the agenda, thats where youll see some daylight between them. It strikes me this is more like a kings court than any other situation in a kind of around a democratic leader ive ever heard. People like hes mercurial. You need to get in his ear. Maybe you can change his mind on this. It all feels very much courtly. Exactly. One longtime trump confidant told me, titles dont matter. Really its your personal relationship. Gabe sherman, thank. Burglars broke into the home of nfl player Nikita Whitlock scrawling racist words on his walls. [vo] quickbooks introduces jeanette. And her new business i do, to go. Jeanette was excellent at marrying people. But had trouble getting paid. Not a good time, jeanette. Even worse. Now im uncomfortable. But heres the good news, jeanette got quickbooks. Send that invoice, jeanette. 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In the obama Labor Department looked at thousands of complaints involving fast food workers it found labor law violations in 60 of investigations at carls jr. And hardees. Usually for failure to pay the minimum wage where time and a half or overtime. So just to be clear, the guy whose companys franchises have a history of rampant labor law violations is trumps pick to lead the department of labor that enforces labor law. And thats not all. Remember the truly terrible ad for carls jr. Featuring scantily clad women gorging on burgers . Its a bacon lovers fantasy. Yeah, yeah, i know what youre thinking. But come on, its called the bacon threeway burger. What did you expect . The man who again wants to be our labor secretary think those ads are what americas all about. I dont think theres anything wrong with a beautiful woman in a bikini eating a burger and watching a bentley or a pickup truck or being in ra hot tub. I think theres probably nothing more american. Nothing more american. Maybe true, i dont know. It isnt those ads or his general hostility to workers rights that will present the biggest obstacle to being confirmed, its that he holds those views that were standard in establishment gop circles until trump came along. People vote with their hearts. Comments like that have prompted outrage at breitbart. Trump expected to tap labor secretary who prefers foreign labor to american workers, the site fumed yesterday adding that puzder stands diametrically opposed to trumps signature issues on trade that won him the election. Weird almost as if what donald trump said during the campaign has virtually nothing to do with what hes doing now that hes won. F bph. Tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in Blood Pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. 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Theyre the reason that i want to protect our community and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then ill drive it every day of the week. Together, were building a better california. Tuesday night this week nfl Football Player Nikita Whitlock returned home with his wife and children to find his new jersey house burglarized. But in addition to a few items stolen there was racist graffiti, three swastikas, kkk, the nword and phrases like go back to africa scrawled on the wall in a black marker going up the stair, trump. Last night local police said theyre investigating the incident as a hate crime. Joining me now is Nikita Whitlock fullback for the giant. This is a really harrowing and terrifying story, i have to say. Maybe tell me what was the moment of coming back to your house and realizes what had happened. Walk me through that. Yeah, it was terrifying. The moment wasnt so bad, honestly. I didnt get to see the full extent. It wasnt until about four hours later when the police let me back into my house. You know, they cleared the house and took pictures and fingerprinted. You called the police right away . Yes, as soon as i walked in the house, liked to the right, i was actually carrying an umbrella because i had a newborn and i didnt want to get wet. It was raining. I turned to the right and there was a swastika and to the left was a big trump banner almost. And as soon as i saw that, i came out, called the police. Got my family away from the scene. And so i didnt see how bad it was. You had had a breakin earlier, right . Not too long ago, you had a breakin into this house . An attempted breakin, yeah. Came back from thanksgiving break, took my son to see the family for thanksgiving and realized that the window to one of the doors, it had been someone tried to break into it. But we have a metal design through it that stopped them. It took some packages, but they werent able to get in. So that moment when you come in, you realize someones been in the house, youre like out right away . Immediately. Because you had primed that time. So you then four hours later t police take theyre investigating as a hate crime. You go in the house. What do you see . Just mass graffiti. In every room there was a different slogan. It was just crazy. The nword was a lot. In my sisters room, it said dirty nword. I have a roommate who lives downstairs. It said nword lover. Upstairs in the living room was fing nword. In our room was go back to africa, swastikas stamped all over the house. Clothes thrown everywhere, things missing. Whats going through your head . Are you thinking who did this . Are you scared . I mean at the time, all i could think about was safety. You know . Get the family away. Get the police in. Make sure no one comes back. And, you know, from that time to now thats been my number one concern is making sure my family is safe. You live in new jersey, right . Mmhmm. You live in an area, my understanding, is a predominantly white area. Yes, very. Do you feel like you have do you feel like youve been viewed with animus, with bias there . This is a conversation im having a lot since. I havent felt bias. But i have felt the distance of, you know, people being able to experience the black culture or black people. I have a neighbor. Shes a lovely lady. I love her to death. She bakes cookies all the time. One of the first things she said. I have been living in the house for a while. I dont broadcast what i do for a living. A lot of people dont know who we are. The lady said, what do you do . I said i play for the giants. And her response was, i told them they didnt have to worry about drivebys. And so, you know, at that time i knew that this area really wasnt keen to having young, especially young black men living here. I want to ask you what it meant to see you come into your own house and theres on one side a swastika. Right. A denied other side the name of the man who is currently the president elect of the United States. Right. But in this context it must have been immediately clear to you what whoever wrote that name meant by that name . Yeah. I have strong opinions about president elect, but i dont like that they used him as something to hide behind. You know. If they wanted to write any name, they should have wrote their name. This is your opinion, this was your decision. You could have done it on facebook and everybody would have known what you were and what you think, but you decided to violate my personal space and give me your opinion and use someone elses name. Thats an interesting response. You say i mean, do you talk about politics in the locker room . Do you guys talk about politics in the locker room . Sometimes. Sometimes. I imagine you got all you got all kinds, right . You got trump voters, you got Hillary Clinton voters and everything in between, right . I think this election, you know, this was my first election in the league, but i think this election, it was more quiet. There wasnt as much politic talk. Do you think people didnt want because it was so raw . Exactly, exactly. Because of what it meant. I think we try to keep to topics that are light hearted that we can discuss without raising any problems because, you know, the locker room can get aggressive sometimes. So this particular election was definitely you know, people talk about it. But as soon as it started to veer one way or the other, it would be moved on to another topic. Nikita whitlock, im so sorry that you went through that. Thank you. I hope you and your family are okay. All right. Appreciate it. Still to come, president obama takes a remarkable step of ordering a formal investigation into russian influence in the 2016 election. Senator chris murphy on that ahead. Plus tonights thing 1, thing 2 starts right after this break. 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Thing 1 tonight, president elect donald trump is taking time out during his transition period to travel to some of the states he won on his socalled usa thank you 2016 tour. He started out in cincinnati, ohio, then went to fayetteville, north carolina. Last night he was in des moines, iowa, last hour he wrapped up his fourth stop in michigan. So far these have been set in prime time aiming to attract the most viewers. But he had a stop in baton rouge ahead of his planned speech this evening because this wasnt really part of his victory tour. He had some business to attend to. Why trump spoke in baton rouge today is thing 2. But when you have high Blood Pressure and need Cold Medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. Coricidin hbp is the only brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your Blood Pressure. Coricidin hbp. This afternoon donald trump departed from his time time stops to visit baton rouge, louisiana. This was a Campaign Stop because in louisiana, the u. S. Senate race is still going on and voting the tomorrow. The Runoff Election is the last chance for the democrats to pick up a Crucial Senate seat. John Neely Kennedy is in the lead and Foster Campbell in a recent poll. While he tried to get the Campaign Stop an upgrade from mike pence, campbell hasnt got much attention from the party which he stressed with our own Chris Jansing today. I think the party needs to wake up. In the south theyve just given up on the south. I dont know what theyre doing. Theyre up under the bed with the covers pulled over their head. But they need to come back down to the south and lets reestablish Democratic Politics in the south. So let this be a reminder, if youre watching this in louisiana, the election is not over. Tomorrow you have one more ballot to cast. Theres a denture adhesive that holds strong until evening. Fixodent plus adhesives. 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Just now the Washington Post is reporting, citing unnamed u. S. Officials who one should maybe take with a little bit of a grain of salt, that the cia has concluded in a secret assessment that russia intervened in the 2016 election to help donald trump win the presidency rather than just to undermine confidence in the u. S. Electoral system. According to officials briefed on the matter, a wider operation to boost trump and hurt clintons chances. Heres another example of apparent russian cyber mischief, a person living in england who says child pornography was planted on had his computer. Vad mir bukovski said he was lying sick in bed when British Police officers banged on his door saying theyd received information about images in his possession. British authorities later charged him with indecent images of children. He pled not guilty and theres a prosecution request for more time to review an independent forensic report on what had been found on his computers and how an unidentified third party had probably put it there. Bukovsky maintains his innocence and says the russian sabotage of his computer is an old kgb trick. If this is what happened to him, he is not alone. Cyber attacks of all kinds attribute to russia have occurred in the baltic states, georgia, ukraine, lithuania and just a short time before the u. S. Election an intelligence official said that computer intrusions into the dnc were directed by, quoting russias seniormost officials with the aim of interfering with the election. It was,ate appears at least according to u. S. Intelligence agencies who was behind the constant drip of wikileaks disclosures of email from the campaign and Clinton Campaign officials like its chairman john podesta. Today it was announced that president obama has ordered american intelligence agencies to produce a full report on russian efforts to influence the president ial election to develop a list of lessons learned. This coincides with republican senators saying they plan to conduct congressional hearings into russian hacking. A true bipartisan interest in getting to the bottom of this, with one big exception, next. Jon batiste has mastered new ways to play old classics. With chase atms, he can master new ways to deposit checks too. Easy to use Chase Technology for whatever youre trying to master. What comes to mind . Aving time and money, whatever it is, aarpadvantages. Com can help you save both along the way. So when you get there, you can enjoy yourself all the more. For less. Im hall of famer jerry west and my life is basketball. But that doesnt stop my afib from leaving me at a higher risk of stroke. Thatd be devastating. 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Simultaneously republican senators who say they will conduct hearings into the subject of russians Cyber Attacks voiced support for such hearings such as lindsey graham, john mccain and senator bob corker. But the leader of the party, the president of the United States, still doubts that russia was behind the hacking. I dont believe they interfered. That became a laughing point, not a talking point, a laughing point. Any time i do something, they say, oh, russia interfered. Could be russia, could be china, could be some guy in his home in new jersey. Joining me now senator chris murphy of connecticut. Senator, first your reaction to the president officially calling for this report which i assume a declassified version will be made public. I think this is incredibly important in part because well have some material to work with at the beginning of next year. I would argue whats much more important is next year the Republican Congress in some way, shape or form start their own inquiry. Weve heard today and in the recent days that everyone from john mccain to lindsey graham, even to bob corker on the Foreign Relations committee are planning on starting these inquirie inquiries, and they should. Because if you look back to the cold war, if we ever had evidence that the russians were trying to affect our parties, today it might be an attempt to influence an election against democrats but russia will be no less willing to influence an election against republicans in the future if they dont feel that, a, what theyve done has been exposed and b we take some action. Thats the next step. The truth is not the end here. The end is a sanctions bill that i think, knowing what we know now, is probably appropriate to begin discussing. Before we get to that stuff, though, i find it a little difficult if youre just a citizen, to track this. There are some firms that have made some data publicly available that would suggest this was coming from russia, whether it was state actors or not. Obviously the intelligence agencies have come to that conclusion. It seems like i cant see the evidence. It seep seems persuasive to me. But i guess my question to you is before theres actions, like what would it be to definitively establish in the court of Public Opinion to the incoming president , we should note, that this really was them . What weve heard so far is statements by the director of National Intelligence. I think it would be important before the end of his term for president obama to directly say on the record that there is evidence that the russians were involved. Now, it may be that the way in which we know that involves classified means of obtaining information such that we cant declassify it, but i think its important to have the president of the United States who has a different level of credibility than the director of National Intelligence his subordinate to say that on the record and before donald trump comes into office who is likely to say the exact opposite. In terms of sanctions, lets say that it was the russians and its a fairly serious thing to do. These are criminal intrusions, political sabotage that was, i think, quite effective in many respects in possibly tipping a very close election. What would a sanctions regime look like . Arent we already sanctioning them incredibly heavily . Were sanctioning them, but were not sanctioning them incredibly heavily, were doing that in concert with the europeans. So weve only gone as far, frankly, as the europeans are willing to go. Theres a limit with regard to the trade they do with russia. We would try to find the individuals that were responsible for involved in the hacking and we would personally sanction them, then we would look to broader economic sanctions. Obviously, we all have to have the information in front of us in order to move forward on that basis, but we arent bound on sanctions related to their hacking in the way that we were bound on sanctions relate to their intrusion of ukraine because we dont have to go in concert with the europeans. Let me sketch out a broader worry here as i watch all this develop and the rhetoric during the campaign. This is a nucleararmed power, a country the u. S. Was locked in a cold war with for multiple decades to the point of the precipice of nuclear war. Its a country that clearly has territorial aspirations past its borders thats been shown time and time again. But its also a terrifying relationship in the sense of you can game out a set of escalations and counterescalations that get you to some pretty scary places quickly. I think its interesting that during this time in which weve been imposing pretty heavy sanctions on them for the ukraine, we have other counterterrorism programs around the world. It suggests that up till this point weve been able to compartmentalize some of the most important security conversations we have with them around nuclear proliferation. Whether that can continue or not, i dont know. But this idea that donald trump has that theres a reconciliation to be made with russia just misunderstands russian politics. Putin needs a strain of virulent antiamericanism in order to maintain power. Thats not going to disappear just because donald trump is president. So i dont believe that dashl sanctions would lead to the breakup of this conversation on the other subjects just because you look to the immediate past precedent that hasnt been the case. I hear you on compartmentalization, but it does seem like were on to new territory. Were talking about the accusation of a foreign power to sabotage an election in this country. Thats a very serious thing to have happened. Were also in a place where it seems the world is essential a tinderbox waiting to be lit, whether the middle east, the rise of the populist right which putin has played a role in. Convince me that what youre advocating is kind of a tit for tat doesnt lead to a road that ends in scary escalations. I can tell you a story about europe that theres no doubt that the rise of the french nationalists, the british nationalists have come through direct and indirect support from the russians. Ask yourself what has permissiveness got us so far . Maybe were in the mess we are in because weve let the russians get away with influences elections in europe into the United States and what they will do next if they dont feel consequences for their actions here. We know they were trying to get into voter lists. Maybe today they just tried to manipulate peoples facebook pages, but they might actually try to rig the Election Results themselves. I dont think theres an argument that permissiveness has gotten us very far. I argue that the tinderbox has been created by their actions and i dont know a way to take a bit stronger stand than we have us that far. Senator chris murphy. Thats all in. Dont forget monday im going on the road with senator Bernie Sanders for a town hall event in kenosha, wisconsin. Were going to talk about how that state, how that county, how that area went red for the first time in a generation. You dont want to miss it. Rachel maddow show starts right now. I will not miss it. Im looking very much forward to it, my friend. It will be interesting. Have a great weekend. You too. Thanks to you at home for joining us at this hour. Happy friday. We had a whole show planned tonight that had honestly nothing to do with this topic but then the Washington Post just dropped this astonishing bombshell within the last hour. Now, im going to if you havent seen this yet, im going to put the headline up on the screen so you can see it. This is one of those stories where the headline is really only a fraction of the news that they just broke here. This is a big deal what the Washington Post just publish. There are really two big deals in it. Two bottom lines to this story that they just broke tonight. The first one is what is reflected in the headline. Im just going to quote the lead directly here. The cia has concluded in a secret assessment that russia intervened