Position. We have at least 11 Million People in this country that came in illegally. They will go out. Is now taking crowd suggestions for what he should do about deportation. Number one, well say throw out. Number two, we work with them. Ready . Tonight the republican chaos over Donald Trumps immigration mess. Who knew that it would be donald trump to come off and convert the gop base. And what happens if trump doesnt build the wall . Were gonna come after him, personally. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. On a day when all eyes were on Hillary Clinton and her much anticipated speech about the racist elements of trump coalition, donald trump tried to get out ahead with a kind of prebuttal speech which was foreshadowed last night with these words. Hillary clinton is a biggot who sees people of color only as votes. Not as human beings worthy of a better future. For days now, trump has been appearing before overwhelmingly white audiences and pitching African American outreach. Tod today, in anticipation of Hillary Clintons remarks, he defended his campaign against charges that they are the racists. The news reports are that Hillary Clinton is going to try to accuse this campaign and all of you and the millions of decent americans at record levels. There has never been anything like this. This is a movement we have. And gonna accuse decent americans, who support this campaign, your campaign, of being racists, which were not. When democratic policies fail, they are left with only this one tired argument. Youre racist, youre racist, youre racist. They keep saying it. Youre racist. She lies. And she smears. And she paints decent americans, you, as racists. The people of this country, who want their laws enforced and respected respected by all and who want their borders secured, are not racists. To Hillary Clinton and her donors, and advisers, pushing her to spread smears and her lies about decent people, i have three words. I want you to remember these three words. Shame on you. Less than an hour later in reno, nevada, Hillary Clinton delivered a calm, almost prosecute yorial speech, highlighting his birtherism, his comments about mexicans and muslims. Hed ban muslims from around the world from entering our country, just because of their religion. Think about that for a minute. How would that actually work . So people landing in u. S. Airports would line up to get their passports stamped, just like they do now. But in trumps america, when they step up to the counter, the immigration officer would ask every Single Person what is your religion . And then what . What if someone says im a christian, but the agent doesnt believe him. Do they have to prove it . How would they do that . Under donald trump, america would distinguish itself as the only country in the world to impose a religious test at the border. Now come to think of it, there actually may be one other place that does that, the socalled islamic state. The territory that isis controls. Clinton reserved her greatest condemnation for the people trump has chosen to associate himself with, and what the associations say about him and his campaign. Its also what happens when you listen to the radio host alex jones, who claims that 9 11 and the Oklahoma City bombings were inside jobs. He even said and this really just is so disgusting. He even said the victims of the sandy hook massacre were child actors, and no one was actually killed there. But trump doesnt challenge these lies. He actually went on jones show and said your reputation is amazing, i will not let you down. And the latest shakeup was designed to, quote, let trump be trump. So to do that, he hired stephen bannon. The head of a rightwing website called breitbart. Com, as the campaigns ceo. Breitbart embraces ideas on the extremist fringe of the conservative right. This is not conservativism as we have known it. This is not republicanism as we have known it. These are racist ideas, racebaiting ideas, and antimuslim, antiimmigrant, antiwomen, all key tenets making up the altright. On david dukes radio show the other day, the mood was jubilant. We appear to have taken over the republican party, one white supremacist said. Duke laughed. No, theres still more work to do, he replied. Hillary clinton made it clear exactly who trump is associating with, whatever label they may call themselves. So no one should have any illusions about whats really going on here. The names may have changed. Racists now call themselves racialists. White supremacists call themselves White Nationalists. The paranoid fringe now calls itself altright but the hate burns just as bright. Joining me now, cornell, let me start with you. This was a tactical decision to make this speech. How do you understand the decision to make this speech politically, why elevate these elements in the trump coalition, who is this targeted at . I dont often give a lot of praise in politics. But i gotta tell you, lets get in the weeds here of strategy. This is brilliant by the Clinton Campaign. It does two things. One, today, at a time when donald trump is trying to pivot and move away from like last Years Campaign didnt exist and move away from the racism and the language that hes been using thats alienated moderate voters, Hillary Clinton, you were right, she was a prosecutor today. She made him own his racism. She made him tie his racism around his neck and is not allowing him to easily pivot and move away from his racism. The second thing that she did was brilliant and also important here, she defined him as a unique transcendent kind of danger to our democracy. This is not republicanism. So to those moderate, middle of the road and you see it, the College Educated republicans who are pulling back from him, she gave a clarion call to him. This is not republicanism. This is a unique threat and you cannot allow this. Brilliant strategy on their part. Mckay, youre nodding your head in agreement. Theres always this question, do you see hes the apoth yosises of the modern american republican party. But politically, that seems like thats part of what this is about. I think that is the master stroke of this strategy and the strategy weve seen democrats, the pitch theyve been making since the convention. It reminds me of 1964, what lbj did with goldwater, ran that ad, saying, ive always been a republican, this guy just seems different somehow. Dangerous. Yeah, hes radically scary. And that is exactly the pitch shes making. In that speech, she praised john mccain for calling out some of the more radical rightwingers and what they had been saying about obama. Praising george w. Bush for going to a mosque after 9 11 and saying that muslims loved america, she was making a pitch to all the suburban Republican Voters who cant associate themselves with donald trump. Also, mckay, there was a moment where shes just reading out breitbart headlines. And these are unbelievably offensive, because they are meant to be. Right. I just had this moment, where its like, right, exactly. In a normal political world, the reason why the head of breitbart doesnt get hired for a Political Campaign is precisely because you now own every headli headline written on the website as part of your campaign. Absolutely. There was this idea that he could operate outside of normal partisan politics. And theyre trolling. Now donald trump has to answer for every single one, and thats continuing. Every story that breitbart runs, people are now reporters are emailing the Trump Campaign, saying, do you have comment . Does your campaign ceo agree with this latest insane attack that theyve made . Cornell, what do you think about this . The other side of this, which has been this, im not racist and theyre calling i think theyre calling all of you racist, the prebuttal speech that trump has been using to kind of deal with this. And the i know you are, but what am i, youre a biggot response. Its good strategy on their part. I dont think its going to be successful. But what you with want to do is muddy the waters. So that im a racist, shes a racist, were all racist, lets muddy the water and we can move on. But i think what the Clinton Campaign did today was in a really prosecutor kind of way, lay out the case and put meat on the bones of his racism for all those americans in a unique way. Again, to make the Trump Campaign own the breitbart stuff is brilliant on their part, but it was also a big mistake on the Trump Campaigns part to bring in this sort of extremism at the same time they were trying to pivot and say, were not racists. Thats whats so hes doing outreach and then the guy that hoists the Confederate Flag proud and addresses Barack Obamas relatives, saying, what were they doing . I dont think kenya had a dog in this fight. But theres also this question of, are you essentially elevating heres what im reminded of. 2009, right after the inauguration, Rush Limbaugh said, i hope the president of the United States failed. And the white house took the opportunity to go after him. And it was effective tactically, but of course youre also elevating someone that i think theres a real concern there. I think, though, realistically, this was probably a great day for breitbart and a great day for Hillary Clinton and a terrible day for donald trump. So maybe this helps clinton win the election. The question is, really, were talking about the battle for the rightwing of the party. Right . Is the rightwing about tea party conservativism . Small government conservativism . Or racism andina nativism . I think you give the altright more credibility. Heres donald trump being asked about his support from White Supremacists. Shes saying youre bringing a hate movement mainstream. Do you want White Supremacists to vote for you . Not at all. This is not about hate. Its about love. Its about love and who the real racist is. Its that point in the campaign. Its all about the love. Thank you both, gentlemen. Thank you. Still ahead, after building a campaign base, unappealing to angry and disenfranchised voters, how is that base reacting to Donald Trumps possibly changing language . But first, what is the altright . Ill talk to a journalist who began to target altright attacks, after this twominute break. My name is jamir dixon and im a locate and Mark Fieldman for pg e. Most people in the community recognize the blue trucks as pg e. My truck is something new. Its an 811 truck. When you call 811, i come out to your house and i mark out our gas lines and our electric lines to make sure that you dont hit them when youre digging. 811 is a free service. Im passionate about it because every time i go on the street i think about my own kids. Theyre the reason that i want to protect our community and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then ill drive it every day of the week. Together, were building a better california. Altright is short for alternative right. The wall street journal describes it as a loose but organized movement, mostly online, that rejects mainstream conservativism, promotes nationalism and views immigration and multi culturalism as threats to white identity. So the de facto merger between breitbart and the Trump Campaign represents a landmark achievement for this group. A fringe element that has effectively taken over the republican party. You follow the campaign closely, or you spend a lot of time on twitter or read it, theres a good chance youve encountered altright trolls smearing minority groups. Many of them read or write for breitbart news, whose chairman steve bannon is now in charge of the Trump Campaign as its ceo. We are the platform for the altright, bannon proudly told mother jones last month. In Hillary Clinton read a few headlines from the site. Birth control makes women unattractive and crazy. Would you rather your child had feminism or cancer . Gabby giffords, the guncontrol movements human shield. Hoist it high and proud, the Confederate Flag proclaims a glorious heritage. Just imagine donald trump reading that and thinking, this is what i need more of in my campaign. Breitbarts best known provocateur, the author of some of those headlines, pretty despicable guy, who was permanently barred from twitter in july, for instigating a campaign against lesley jones. Who starred in the ghost busters release. A month later the department of Homeland Security announced its investigating a hack of her website, where hackers posted personal information, including her passport, as well as explicit photos of her. Clinton sent jones a signed personal tweet, no one deserves this, least of all someone who brings us so much joy. Im with you, h. That i targeted jewish journalists. After writing a profile for gq, the reporter was threatened with antisemitic messages, invoking the holocaust, and prompting her to file a police report. The episode that you encountered was mentioned by secretary clinton. Take a listen. When trump was asked about antisemitic slurs and Death Threats coming from his supporters, he refused to condemn them. I think the key part here is, we are talking about people that run a range of views that are generally white supremacist or nazi in inclination. Antisemitic explicitly. But theres this pack hoard, trolling enterprise that they can engage in online, that can be just its massively disturbing. Its not like some thing remotely some people are writing. Theyre actually coming after you. Well, it in my case, and i think as was the case of a lot of journalists, not just jewish ones, you know, you get one tweet, then you get five tweets. Theres like a geometric element to it, where they just multiply and you turn away from your twitter feed and a moment later theres a hundred more of them, and a thousand of them. You just have to walk away or it takes over your whole life. In my case, it crossed over into reality. Someone posted my number, i was getting threatening phone calls. People saying i had ordered a coffin or homicide cleanup at my apartment. So it crossed into the realm of the more real, than maybe somebody sitting in their mothers basement, as the meme goes, and pounding out these tweets at me. I want to play this, because one of the questions today is the guilt by association. Steve bannon actually works for the campaign. Donald trump himself has retweeted the account White Genocide on numerous occasions. Heres trump asking about what happened to you. Take a listen. Some of your supporters have viciously attacked this woman, with antisemitic attacks, Death Threats. These people get so angry. Whats your message to these people when Something Like that happens . I havent read the article, but i heard it was very inaccurate. They shouldnt be doing that with wives. Melania is a top model. They sent pictures around to utah and it wasnt even but im talking about the Death Threats that have followed i dont know anything about that. You mean fans of mine . Supposed fans of yours, posting these i know nothing about it. Youll have to talk to them about it. But your message to the fans is . I dont have a message to the fans. This to me is key. From the beginning, theres been this cluster of people with very, very frankly vile and fringe views that donald trump has quite knowingly played essentially footsie with. These elements have existed for a long time, as Hillary Clinton mentioned in her speech. Different names, different manifestations, but there has always been a White Nationalist front. And one of their tactics was to show up and dare people to get rid of them. Sometimes, some of these same people would show up and infiltrate and then eventually wind up and leaders would denounce them. Trumps thing, he doesnt denounce anyone who supports him almost ever, with rare occasions when hes really pushed into it, like with david duke and the kkk and even then he was sort of waffling. It took him a long time. Right. So you end up with this situation, where whether its because he really wants the support of these people or agrees with them, obviously theres elements of his campaign that hook up with things they look. He doesnt like saying no to anyone whos saying nice things about him, ever. And you end up blindly retweeti retweeting things from White Supremacists. And the other thing thats key here, one of the really disturbing elements, having covered american politics for a decade or around there, you know, i have never encountered just sort of outright nazis much in covering american politics until this campaign, until dealing with this corner of the altright online trump world, where people have hitler mustaches and talk about ovens. I mean, the most vile views in the world, suddenly are just not that many degrees of separation from the nominee of the party. Well, and you have a situation. I found myself listening to secretary clintons speech and thinking, this is where weve come to, that the altright, these people who, i think for a long time, a lot of us journalists who received these attacks would say, like, oh, whatever. We dont know who these people are, how many of them they are, just some pathetic loser in his basement tweeting at me, who cares. But weve gotten to a point where the democratic president ial nominee has a whole speech addressed to them. Talk about going mainstream. Thats about as mainstream as it gets. Do you think i asked mckay this question. It is probably a good day for breitbart. Ive said its an awesome day. And for White Genocide tm. Every single one of these people individually are celebrating. This is their big break. But heres the thing, they will not be able to stop themselves from responding. I mean, thats part of what part of what this is. Why would they stop themselves . Of course. But the point is the degree to which you bait them to come out and talk, is precisely, it seems to me, what the clinton camp is doing. Yeah, it seems to be a tactical move on both sides. One is that its tough for trump to renounce any supporters. So if he gets asked about people individually, it puts him in a difficult spot. But these people have been dying for their big spotlight. Suddenly we have tv producers saying, who can we get from this movement . White genocide book, does anyone have the contact info . Exactly. And someone from the Trump Campaign will have to deal with whatever they say on air. It ends up in a very difficult situation. You had a great day. Trump refusing to renounce his New HampshireCampaign Adviser who has called for Hillary Clinton to be shot. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. This is a perfect example. He said these remarks in july. They got a ton of coverage. Trumps Campaign Said he doesnt agree with those remarks. Hes investigated by the secret service and said them again this month. Trump was asked today about a New Hampshire reporter and he said, i dont know about those remarks, i hadnt heard them. Which is implausible. But second of all, hes a great guy. He knows the military like no one else. And i just add by the way, someone from the Trump Campaign reached out to me on background, a little upset because our headline says donald Trump Defends adviser who called for executing hillary. Because he didnt defend the execution, but id say this is a character defense, if this is your adviser and youre saying how great he is. Thank you both very much. Appreciate it. Coming up, Donald Trumps stance on immigration waivers from one day to the next. But last night he took an unprecedented step in deciding his position, by literally asking the audience. That unbelievable moment after the break. If theres a single issue that has defined Donald Trumps president ial campaign, since he descended that escalator and announced his candidacy last june, its been his hardline on immigration. Yet today, more than 14 months later, and 75 days before the election, nobody actually know what is his immigration policy is, including quite remarkably, donald trump himself. Throughout the gop primary process, trump cast his rivals as advocates of the, quote, hated amnesty, who lack his strength when it comes to immigration. The weakest person on this stage by far, on illegal immigration, is jeb bush. He is so weak on illegal immigration, its laughable. And Everybody Knows it. Hes been very weak on immigration. Hes very much into the whole amnesty thing, which for florida is absolutely no good. You talk about weak on immigration, nobody weaker. Certainly if you look at ted cruz, he was very weak on immigration. Kasich is a nice guy, but honestly, very weak on illegal immigration. Thats the end of him. Okay, now, the big difficult issue at the heart of the immigration conundrum is what to do with the roughly 11 million undocumented human beings, families, living in this country. In the past, trump has had an answer, it was wildly impractical, expensive, and a human rights disaster in the making, but it was an answer and much of the gop base loved it. To deport people, half a million a month, would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, donald. Hundreds of billions of dollars, it would destroy community life, it would tear families apart. We will move them out. The great ones will come back. The good ones will come back. Youre going to have to send people out. We are a country of laws. Going to have to go out and theyll come back, but theyre going to have to go out. Youre going to have a Deportation Force and youre going to do it humanely. But we either have a country or we dont have a country. We have at least 11 Million People in this country that came in illegally. They will go out. Some will come back. Last night, in one of the truly most remarkable moments in politics, including in this crazy campaign, trump turned to the crowd and asked them what his position should be on what is supposed to be his signature issue. Now, can we be and ill ask the audience. You have somebody whos terrific, whos been here 20 years. Right. Long time. Long court proceeding, long everything, in other words, to get them out. Can we go through a process, or do you think they have to get out . Tell me, i mean, i dont know, you tell me. So do we tell these people to get out, number one, or do we work with them and let them stay in some form . So now we have the person, 20 years, upstanding person, the familys great, everyones great. Do we throw them out, or do we work with them and try and okay, ready . How many stay work with them. Number one, throw out. Number two, work with them. Number one . Number two . Shortly after that, trump did seem to take a position and then, well, all hell broke loose. Trumps stunning immigration mess and why it meant a very bad day for ann coulter, with some cannot miss tape you do not want to miss up next. Last night after he asked a town hall audience which his position should be, donald trump seemed to be repudiate his hardline on forcibly deporting 11 million undocumented People Living in this country. Theyll pay back taxes, they have to pay taxes, theres no amnesty as such. Theres no amnesty. Right. But we work with them. Now, okay, but when i look at the rooms and i have this all over. Now, everybody agrees we get the bad ones out. But when i go through and i meet thousands and thousands of people on the subject and ive had very strong people come up to me, really great, great people come up to me. And theyve said, mr. Trump, i love you, but to take a person thats been out here 15, 20 years and to throw them and the family out, its so tough. I have it all the time. Its a very, very hard thing. Yeah, it is hard. Trumps comments prompted former House Majority leader eric kanter to tweet that hes pleased to see real donald trump embrace jeb bushs immigration plan, the very plan trump lambasted in the primary. Came on the night ann coulter is having a party for her new book celebrating trump. A book which includes this line. Theres nothing trump can do that wont be forgiven, except change his immigration policies. Rush limbaugh, for one, found the whole thing hilarious. Who knew that it would be donald trump to come along and convert the gop base to supporting amnesty on the same week ann coulters book comes out . Poor ann back with benjy sarlin, whos been covering immigration for a very long time. So, i mean, i guess to take a macro view, we should be clear, there is no policy on the hardest part of immigration policy, the hardest part is what to do with 11 Million People, the most contentious, right. And theres no policy there. People talk about a flip flop, this or not, its just unclear that hes thought about it. Its like hes just working out the entire debate that the party went through in a wrenching process over years in like a few days and realizing all the limitations of each option. Well, i just realized its difficult to deport all these people and some people are upset about it. What if we tried to let some people stay . And then you hear rumblings. What if we did it without citizenship . Then you hear a murmur. All of these are things that have been floated by the other people in his primary field who he destroyed for suggesting them. These are all iterations here he is now, hes asked in an interview tonight about whether hes softening on the 11 million. Take a listen. On hannity, you used the word softening. I dont think its a softening. Ive heard people say its a hardening actually. Its a hardening. Fascinating. Heres the thing. He did have a position, which was deport the 11 million. That was his position. Thats no longer the position. Once you dont have the position, you do not distinguish yourself anymore from all those other folks who you savaged as being weak. Mitt romney ran in 2012 on basically make life hard enough and theyll selfdeport, which is essentially where hes going to end up. And i remember some republicans were really upset about that. There was one republican who ran who said it was maniacal and crazy and cost them the asian and latino vote, oh, thats right, it was donald trump. Said that after mitt romney lost. Building a border wall is something hes talked about for a long time. Legalization is not. It used to sound like he was for it, then he started like he was against it. Its not like a core issue, even for his supporters, for him. So where hes at, the one nonnegotiable thing is the wall and make mexico pay for it, right . And then maybe well just give everyone amnesty too. Maybe i can get away with that if the wall is high enough and big enough and scary enough and gets people excited enough about having a country anymore. And its really been this way the whole campaign. Theres only about two key issues, one is the border wall and border security. Two is his skepticism of trade deals and international institutions, this antiglobalist thing. Those are real things and Everything Else just floats around. Everything else has been negotiable. Taxes sometimes negotiable the muslim ban. Sometimes negotiable with himself. Thanks for sticking around. Still to come, is Donald Trumps softening stance coming at the expense of his supporters . But first, tonights thing 1, thing 2, right after this break. Its a supercomputer. With this grade of protection. 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Ask your doctor about cialis and a 200 savings card thing 1 tonight, North Carolina was once a reliably red state. Now republicans there are worried, facing what could be their worst Election Year in decades. Among the potentially vulnerable, twotime incumbent republican senator richard burr. Last time he was up for election, he won by 12 points. Now he has a threepoint advantage over debra ross. Burrs ad features an frane american pastor who runs a center that helps kids from low income families. I trust and believe in richard burr. Our organization has as its mission to narrow the education gap in math, science, and technology for at risk and economically disadvantaged children. Hes done a great deal to help the families get on a path to leads to academic and life success. Hes genuinely interested in our community, in our children. Thank you, richard burr, for helping the families and children of North Carolina. Now, i will say, that is a really effective ad. Running in a state whose population is 22 , in a year with burr trying to separate himself from trump. Theres just one awkward issue with it. And thats thing 2, which ill show you in 60 seconds. Using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework. Wire. And plants needed to give my shop. A face. No one will forget. See what the power of pots can do for your buness. Learn more at chase. Com ink richard burr, North Carolina, released a really powerful ad this week, featuring local pastor kirby jones, praising burrs work with low income kids in the state. It features adorable schoolchildren, looking very studious. Just one program, the kids are not fillinated with any kind of education program, because they come from here. Two clips featured in his ad are tagged for suitable for stories about africa, this image can be found on istock labelled african children. While this image, featured in the burr ad, which struck me at the time, it called group of children drawing and is tagged, is africa, african culture, and nonu. S. Location. Thats doug mcauliffe, the maker of the ad, the ad company used stock photos because he was not able to shoot. So its a good reason to stock video. Someone just chose or searched very poorly. Pain. It comes when your Insurance Company says theyll only pay threequarters of what it takes to replace it. What are you supposed to do . Drive threequarters of a car . Now if you had Liberty Mutual new car replacement™, youd get your whole car back. I guess they dont want you driving around on three wheels. Smart. With Liberty Mutual new careplacement™, well replace the full value of your car. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Donald trump says he will be giving an immigration policy speech over the next week, amids growing concerns from his supporters about his possible softening approach. As to what might happen if trump changes some of his key promises, we got a chilling insight to that, when a trump supporter called into glenn becks radio show yesterday. Now hes coming towards the independents and the democrats. But does he mean it . Wait, wait, wait. Does he mean it, or is he just saying these things like a politician . Hes just saying these things at this moment and i have no problems admitting that, to get elected. Just as long as, as far as im concerned, as long as he does the basic things, the foundational things, which is build a wall, hes not going to have people like me coming after him. So if he doesnt build a wall, like china, then hes in trouble . Its the wall that is your hes in so much trouble, you dont even understand, the backlash. People are frustrated and angry and tired of all the political stuff. Were going to come after him personally. You know what i mean, were going to get him. I dont know what you mean. Hang on, what does that mean . Impeach him . The most peaceful way that you can get rid of a president. Is impeach him . Yes, sir. Okay, theres not violence, when you say coming after him personally . Well, i mean, hey, you yourself said hes condoned violence in the past, hasnt he . No, i dont think that its good not towards him, toward peop. The people who are very frustrated and angry, theyre frustration and anger can only be subside first down he makes his promises true. And he has a lot on his shoulders. Maybe he himself doesnt know how much. If he doesnt come through for us, hes going to have bigger problems than what you know. Nate, thank you for one of the spookiest phone calls i think ive ever received. That is a replica version of the oval office that he does his show out of. Well look at the repercussions of the candidacy on the republican party, next. Hey listen, when you tell our friends about your job, maybe lets play up the gital part. But its a manufacturing job. Yeah, well ge is doing a lot of cool things digitally to help machines communicate, might want to at least mention that. Im building worldchanging machines. With my two hands. Does that threaten you . No dont be silly. Im just, uh, gointo go to chop some wood. With that . Yeah we dont have an ax. Or a fireplace. Good to be prepared. Could you cut the bread . For every 10 nights i stay, i get one free. S rewards program is simple. This however, will not be simple. You gotta ride the belt, captain obvious. I have liquids in body a car, and i feel good, confident, because im at a truecar certified dealership. I already connected with a dealer and got upfront pricing information before i even got here. Hey, how ya been . Terrific, thank you he knew exactly what id save. So now, while im having a great experience, im also feeling confident because truecar just received this coveted j. D. Power award for their website. Its a strong name j. D. Power. This is how carbuying was always meant to be. This is truecar. Hey, youre yes, sir. Clarence you know, at the model year end clarence event, you can get a great deal on this 2016 passat. Steve. Yeah . Clarence is on a roll. Yeah. I wish theyd name an event after me. Same here. But the model year end becky event . Thats no go. Stevent thats just vandalism. Whatever you want to call it, dont miss the volkswagen model year end event. Hurry in for a 1,000 volkswagen reward card and a five hundred dollar labor day bonus when you buy or lease a new 2016 passat. The tragedy of this is theres not going to be a wall built. Mexico isnt going to pay for it, and theres not going to be a ban on muslims. This is all like a alternative universe that he created. The reality is its not going to happen. And people are going to be deeply frustrated and the divides will grow in our country, this extraordinary country will continue to stagger instead of soar. And thats the heart breaking part of this is i think people are going to really feel betrayed. Thats jeb bush. Last month talking about the potential blow back to trumps broken promises. Betsy, i think theres two ways to think about the trump phenomenon. One is the gold water sort of example, right . Gold water runs but wins by losing. Gold water takes over the republican party. And the other is the ross perot example. People thought it was the beginning of a new phenomenon and enduring phenomenon in american politics and it proved to be not. It proved to be basically a flukey thing. Which of them do you think is more likely . I think its closer to goldwater. Trump has identified a massive swath of republican primary voters with a huge appetite for what hes selling. Hes shown theres a market for his rhetoric and these policy proposals. Hes demonstrated he can court these people and be successful. The reality is theres a host of savvy republican politicians that would be a little more disciplined than trump and run slightly better campaigns and be able to potentially go further than trump has. Jack, youre sort of from the libertarian rand paul wing of the movement. You have had a lot of tussles with the bright bart crew. What is your sense of how much they have seized the party, how large they are and the continuity, you know, should trump lose or win . I think its an overstatement to say that the al right as taken over the gop. Quite frankly, i dont think you said earlier in the broadcast tonight that youve never seen people talk about nazis. Were in a different area here. Being identifying as at right is uniquely evil. I think Hillary Clinton today did a disservice to the country if not humanity by advertising this movement and having people who had never heard of them who have hateful or racist thoughts are googing it and finding out what the movement is about. A populous movement by their nature need a figure to rally around. But Hillary Clinton advertised this evil movement today. That sounds a lot like the ignore it and it will go away approach. The idea i mean, thats part of the problem. Steve bannon is on the campaign. He took this guy into his campaign. That stuff is fair game. Its absolutely fair game. But i think theres a way to do it to be responsible. When i watch Hillary Clintons speech today, i knew what she was going talk about. I thought it was fair. I didnt want to hear the words four or five times in a row or advertise a twitter handle that people will follow. This is important. I think jack is right in terms of the scope of those folks. When youre talking about these sort of weird movement to the extent its a movement, right, racists, avowed racists, that is distinct from the broader forces that are shaping what might be something more like an American National front party. Right . Like the front in france. That includes a lot of other people and it has some really gnarly views about race, but its a real block of people. Without a doubt. And what i find really striking. I was sort of reviewing a lot of the altright blogs reported on in the past, and i noticed how much the Vocabulary Words have become part of Donald Trumps campaign. For example, paul ramsay. One of the most popular well known altright bloggers made a definition that i think is helpful. He said republicans see the defining Political Tension as between conservatives and liberals while the altright sees it between nationalism and globalism. Steve bannon 100 buys into the altright understanding and so does donald trump. He talks about defending the nation. We know what hes talking about, and the fact that hes using that vocabulary is significant and a lasting change. Jack, do you worry about what his followers will do if they lose . Weve unleashed something ugly. Were stoking the flames of something on the left and right. Obviously donald trump represents this in the biggest way possible. It scares me. Betsy and jack, thank you for joining us tonight. I appreciate it. Thank you. That is all in for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts now. Good evening, chris. Thank you for joining us this hour. The year after world wor 22 ended. President harry truman signed the employment act of 1946. World war 22 ii was over. The Great Depression was over. The competing economies had been laid waist by the war. Our own economy took off like a rocket during and after world war ii. In that single moment when it was over and the congress came back to do the nations work, congress realized we were a different kind of country in a different kind of world, and the congress decided to assert itself. Economic policy from then on out should be steered in such a way