Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20140829

Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Tonight, washington is bracing for a dramatic fight over whats shapes up to be the most polarizing and defining issue of president obamas second term. An expected executive action by the president on immigration that could potentially prevent millions of people who lack legal status from being deported. The end of his press conference today, which had been focused almost entirely on Foreign Policy, the president decided to return to the podium after starting to walk away. When reporters pressed him on immigration. He then made clear, once again, he plans to act where congress will not. Have no doubt, in the absence of congressional action, im going to do what i can to make sure the system works better. All right . Thank you, guys. President s comments came after 145 immigration activists were arrested this afternoon outside the white house where they were protesting deportations of undocumented immigrants. Advocates hope the president will expand his deferred action program, or daca, deferring prosecutions to those brought to the United States without papers as children to cover those with close relatives in the u. S. Immigrants with a clean criminal record and many others. President s action on immigration which is expected soon doesnt just have massive implications for undocumented immigrants, it also has the potential to completely alter the Midterm Election landscape. This week brought provocative comments from two different republicans, senator marco rubio, and representative steve king, who both suggested they might effectively shut down the government if the president , as king put it to the Des Moines Register wields his pen and commits an unconstitutional act to legalize millions of people. Congress has ten scheduled working days after it returns from recess on september 8th to pass a continuing resolution to keep the government funded. What king and some of his colleagues are threatening is to block that resolution if the president acts on immigration. That would lead to a shutdown, which you no doubt remember from the last shutdown, is the most destructive things republicans have done to the republican brand. This is crucial, theyd be doing it right before the Midterm Elections. While some vulnerable republicans are calling on the president not to act on immigration, others have taken to painfully painting the gop. Meanwhile, despite paul ryans insistence his party will pass a clean continuing resolution and avert a shutdown, the atlantics molly ball reports, a well placed House Republican house says, this is key, gop leadership is increasingly nervous about the potential for a rebellion on the funding bill from hardcore house conservatives. Joining me, congressman luis gutierrez. I know where you are substantively on this. The politics of it are fascinating to me. You have folks on the democratic side who think you can get a bear trap, to cause republicans to freak out over it and cause a shutdown. Do you think thats smart politics . Heres what i hope first and foremost, chris. I think the president is going to put in good justice policy, our Immigration Community in this case, ahead of good politics. I have to say, i think its almost as though theyre going backwards yes. Right . In some abyss. And they dont see it. They dont understand the demographics or refuse to come, you know, steve king, where he lives and where hes at, is a reflection of america. It is not a reflection of the totality of the america. There will be let me just say this to you, chris. When the president of the United States said im no longer going to deport immigrants that are undocumented, arrived here at children, right . Daca. Right. He did that in, what, june of 2012. Then about two months later at the democratic convention, you had undocumented youth speaking at primetime at the democratic convention. Thats right. And barack obama not only got 2 million more votes from latinos in 2012 than in 2008, he got a higher percentage of the vote. Okay. If you want to look at the politics just through a political lens thats i got to tell you, the last time he did Something Like this, it was pretty good for democrats. If im an adviser, im being paid to game this out, theres a case to be made, are you really going to do something this polarizing, this high risk in the runup to the midterm . Why not wait until after the election . Thats a decision the president is going to have to make, and i believe that you and i, we can talk about this, but we cant thats one thing were not going to be able to answer. I think the decision has been made i think this is what i believe. Its not what i know. Not what ive been told. But its what i believe. You know, by extrapolating from all my conversations. So, between you and i and everybody watching this on the program tonight, i believe its i suggested this to you a couple months ago. Its going to be millions. Could be up to 5 million people. Hes got to make a decision. Does he do it before or after the november election . I hope he says, you know what, i have principles, i have values, im going to put them forward and im going to im going to do what i said i was going to do. I said i was going to make a decision by the end of the summer and im going to announce it, and i hope he does that. I hope he puts good Public Policy because, you know what, pryor is doing what pryor has to do so he can continue to be a democratic senator as he feels from arkansas. But we have to do what we have to do as a Democratic Party to stand up for our principles and values. Very important History Lesson from congressman there about the president saying he would announce something at the end of the summer. People should remember that. Congressman luis gutierrez. Thank you very much, sir. Earlier this week we showed you incredibly awkward footage, a republican trying and failing to block a banner held up by protesters who were confronting marco rubio on this issue, on immigration. It was a perfect image of the at times painful clumsiness of the Republican Party as it tries to deal this issue. We have yet another illustration on how awkward republicans be on this. This time from nathan deal. Theres a fundamental problem that can only be solved at the congressional level, and that is to deal with the issue of children, i presume you probably fit the category i dont. Im not an illegal immigrant. I have no idea why you thought i was undocumented. Is it because i look hispanic . Ouch. There is fox news Host Bill Oreilly who last night wanted to, well, debate two immigration activists about californias immigration policy, and then despite their very polite demeanor, decided to cut their mikes. Heres how it went with his guest Enrique Morones. First of all what would you do . Mr. Morones, what would you do to stop people from coming in here illegally . What . First of all, its not 100,000. What would you do . Last chance, sir. Last chance. What would you do to stop it . When your forefathers and foremothers i appreciate your time. We appreciate your we appreciate your time tonight. The sergeant mr. Johnson, what would you top people from coming in here illegally . They keep talking but theres no sound because the mikes were cut joining me now, Enrique Morones of border angels. Enrique, how is your mike level . Youre not going to cut me off, are you, chris . I actually have i mean this seriously, we have a nomikecutting policy on this show which enrages viewers sometimes when people go on. I want to hear your answer to this question, because this is always the question, security first, border control, every sovereign nation has an obligation to patrol its borders and decide whos in. What would you do, Enrique Morones . Right. Im not arguing that. Like i was telling bill, i said todays migrants want the same opportunity that his forefathers and foremothers had which is to have a way to come into the country through the front door. That doesnt exist today. These children from Central America are turning themselves into border patrol. People crossing the desert where we put water are crossing the desert not because they want to but they have to because they want to feed their families and theres no front door for them to enter, no line for them to get into, so lets create a line. This is a really important this is partly true in the senate bill that passed. Its but its probably not sufficient which is one way to deal with illegal immigration is to just massively expand the amount of people who can come in legally, right . Thats right. The senate bill thats been offered right now, a lot of us dont support that. We dont want to double the size of the wall or double the size of the border patrol. The border patrols dont want that. That will lead to 200 more deaths a year. We want humane policies humane terminology that you always use. Thats another thing that got bill mad when i said theres no such thing as an illegal human being. When hes losing or scared and his bullying doesnt work, he just shuts you off. Its disappointing. We got so much feedback from the normal people that watch Something Like that. Because we know that theres fox and theres facts. So the people that like the facts, they were calling me going, that was great, the way you shut him down. And he couldnt handle it anymore so he turned off your microphone. But thats why i was delighted that your office contacted us because we do wan to have humane policies. Congressman gutierrez is a great hero to all of us. I do believe president obama is going to take executive action by the end of summer and allow these people to be documented. Theyre not clambering for citizenship. They want to be documented, they want to have the same opportunities you and i have had, to work hard, get ahead and so forth. Were a great nation because of that diversity. Lets keep that spirit alive, regardless if theyre from a european country like we discussed last time, those children from Central America where the murietta Police Stopped them. The people coming today are from Central America, no longer from mexico. People get in line, we find out who they are, they become documented and they come into the country. Its a supply and demand issue. Do you believe this do you believe theres two ways to think about this. One way, if we were to expand the legal channels, expand the amount of work visas, for instance, which part of whats been debated and part of whats in the senate, work visas, and the people who can apply to become citizens, that would reduce illegal inflow. The other side of it, i presume folks like bill oreilly would say thats going to incentivize even more come to come, were going to be overrun if we do that. But thats not true. Just look at the facts, once again. Theres been a 40 drop in migration, unauthorized migration from mexico, and why . Because the situation in mexico is better. Theres a stronger economy. I met with the mexican president this week and with governor brown. Things are better so less people are coming without visas. Its a supply and demand issue. Undocumented people, 250 million around the world, arent in this country. Theyre in other countries. Theyll go where theres opportunities. Its supply and demand. Thats an important statistic ive never heard before. 250 million undocumented immigrants around the world. America tends to think its only poor america that has to deal with it. Enrique morones, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Gracias. Lots more to talk about tonight including an update on the story of the gun range instructor accidentally killed in arizona by a 9yearold girl he was teaching to fire an uzi. Thats next. Female announcer through labor day at sleep train, get 36 months interestfree financing, plus big savings of up to 400 on beautyrest and posturepedic. Even get three years interestfree financing on Serta Icomfort and tempurpedic. Plus, free same day delivery, setup, and removal of your old set. When brands compete, you save but this special financing offer ends labor day at sleep train. Sleep train your ticket to a better nights sleep this was a very mature young lady and something she wanted to do and her parents were treating her. This was something that was high on her bucket list to do and her parents took her out to do what she was going to do. Were reviewing the policy of age. Of course, were not going to close the range, obviously, and were not going to stop the range operation or rental of automatic weapons whatsoever. The show last night, the operator of the gun range at arizona last stop in white hills, arizona, told me that his business would remain open even after a 9yearold girl learning to fire an automatic uzi submachine gun accidentally shot and killed one of the range instructors. The man you see there right next to her on monday. Despite what the range operator said on this program last night, tonight that range has been shuttered indefinitely. We will continue to follow the story, and well be right back. We are not taking military action to solve the ukrainian problem. A military solution to this problem is not going to be forth coming. Just hours ago, president reiterated in the strongest language yet the basic reality that undergurds the situation between russia and the ukraine and the u. S. Which is that a military confrontation between United States and russia is inconceivable and irresponsible and both countries know it. And because of that, russian president Vladimir Putin has pursued his interest in ukraine with an unnerving persistence. After a month of bloody but successful ukrainian oppositions to retake southEastern Ukraine from russianbacked separatists, russia has apparently launched its own counteroffensive within ukraine. Ukraine military released this tape showing a russian tank in a ukrainian town they say is under russian control. On monday, Ukrainian Forces captured ten russian paratroopers in their military. A position reiterated by Vladimir Putin even as he traveled to belarus for talks with the new ukrainian president this week. Today, one separatist leader reportedly said there were 3,000 or 4,000 Russian Troops fighting with rebels but added they were in ukraine on their vacations. The way Congressional Staff will sometimes take Vacation Time and go work on a campaign. Nato said there are over 1,000 Russian Troops in ukraine not on vacation and released satellite images today to back up their claim. Russia has deliberately and repeatedly violated the sovereignty of ukraine and new images of Russian Forces inside ukraine make that plain for the world to see. Russia blaming ukraine and the u. S. Calling russia liars. In every step, russia has come before this counsel to say everything except the truth. It has manipulated, it has obfuscated, outright lied. Russia has to stop lying and has to stop fueling this conflict. The mask is coming off. President obama is traveling to europe next week for nato summit and to coordinate with u. S. Allies on ukraine. Next month, he will welcome ukrainian president to the white house. But the question still remains what difference will any of that make given how russias acted so forth . Joining me, andrij dobriansky, executive board member for the Ukrainian Congress committee of america. What the president announced does seem to me the bedrock logic upon what all this is, were not going to two to russia and not have military intervention with russia. Ukraine is in russias backyard and not ours. Its not being fought in the margins, its been fought in ukraine. No matter what position the president keeps laying out that he doesnt want ground troops, thats, again, another bargaining position of the president where he doesnt lay out things you can bargain down from. He says theres no ground troops, what is there to stop an invasion . Nothing. Nothing that stopped russia after georgia or five other conflict zones in the world that putin has been involved with. We should say, the thing that has stopped russia in the last few weeks is the Ukrainian Military with an its an offensive into ukraine. So its an offensive against the country. I wouldnt call it that. What has stopped russia has been military power, has been from the very beginning. Once ukraines army went from literally zero to standing at close to 80,000 russia changed the timeline for its crimea invasion. The vote went down to the beginning of april then it was flee weeks after the invasion. After the president of ukraine, poroshenko, got elected, that very week he launched this antiterrorist opposition and reduced by 2 3 the amount of space, the territory in ukraine, and people need to understand when you say Eastern Ukraine, there are eight provinces in Eastern Ukraine, six of which do not have these problems. Right. Only a third of which in these two provinces have issues. Theres this interesting statement put out by putin today in which he addresses the separatists rebels in Eastern Ukraine as the novorossiya. It has to do with people like me when i call news station around the country when they dont list it in the way the ukrainians spell. They spell it in the russian spelling. Its whenever anybody pronounces donetsk as donetsk or other names. Its a colonial system. Its where other countries have fought against colonial rule for centuries and finally get their recognition in the west and ukraine doesnt get that because weve been an oppressed people for centuries. The term means little russia. It was part of russia when russia had an empire. We were colonized. We were ethnically cleansed as crimea was ethnically cleansed. What about the way folks in that part of ukraine feel . This is a Washington Post Foreign Correspondent talking to me a few days after the plane went down. I asked him, the folks the civilians running across, how do they feel about whats going on . Take a listen. They, by in large, are really angry with the Ukrainian Military for what they see as an offensive that does not make any distinguishing between the rebels who have taken up arms and ordinary civilians. A lot of residential complexes have been hit with artillery fire in the area around donetsk. People are angry about that. They feel paranoid about what the intentions of the government in kiev are for them. What do you think of that . This is, again, just propaganda coming out of russia. Though its from ukraine, the people saying that, you dont think theres a legitimate grievance in that part of the country with military offensive or kiev . A grievance with them . Yes. Grievance enough to kill people, shoot down an airplane . Whats the level of grievance . I guess my point is i think the obvious deceptiveness with which putin has engaged there, right, which we can all agree, they crossed the border accidentally, yes, right, sure. Has perhaps skewered the fact theres a genuine political grievance in that part of ukraine that is not just the product of russian propaganda or incursion. Theres political grievance everywhere. Theres political grievance in states in america. We dont allow armed resistance. Andrij dobriansky. The nfl issued a new policy against Domestic Violence, anyone who commits an offense. Thats ahead. National Football League today introduced a sweeping new policy on Domestic Violence with by far the most punitive penalties of any major professional sport. In a letter to all team owners, nfl commissioner Roger Goodell announced violations of the personal conduct policy regarding assault, battery, Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault that involve force, a sixweek suspension without pay for first offense, heres where things get very serious, and for a second offense, banishment from the league. Goodell writing a banished player may petition for reinstatement after one year, but there will be no presumption of assurance that it will be granted. This announcement was a surprise today but didnt come out of nowhere. Goodell and the nfl faced an avalanche of criticism last month after ray rice was suspended for two weeks because of this incident caught on tape in an elevator which rice appears to be dragging his thenfiancee after knocking her unconscious. Goodell now admits rices suspicion was not strong enough. My disciplinary decisions led the public to question our sincerity, our commitment and whether we understood the toll that Domestic Violence inflicts on so many families. I simply didnt get it right. Simply put, we have to do better and we will. Joining me now, zerlina maxwell, grio. Com, mrs. Maxwell of espns highly questionable. You were wrestling through this and i felt i was wrestling through it in the same way, because at one level, incredibly critical of goodells decision on ray rice, and the culture that sweeps Domestic Violence under the rug. There was something about this that didnt quite sit well with me. What didnt sit right with you . Well, it didnt sit right with me when i did not realize there was supposed to be legitimate outreach measures that were underlines, all the talk about punishment. Seems like after the totally tonedeaf way they handled it the nfl seemed to think their solution was, were going to throw more punishment out there and that will make everybody happy. I think by in large thats whats going to happen. If theres going to be underlying outreach behind this, i dont wrestle with it nearly as much as before. What do you think of it . The devils in the details because, you know, its not a zero tolerance policy on Domestic Violence which i think we should all strive for, but its a year suspension with the right to appeal and then maybe you will have a lifetime ban. Its almost like an olivia pope statement. Its in the headlines, were all talking about it you just said zero tolerance. I think thats actually why i was first a little uneasy about it. Because i think we should expect for people not to hit other people. Right. And if we dont have that bar set, and it becomes the cultural norm, were going to see this happening and get swept under the rug. Isnt there i guess my worry was about what are the unintended consequences here . Of a policy like this. If you had a zero tolerance, if you have a lifetime ban. The appeal seems to shade it quite a bit. What kind of perverse incentives do you start to produce, which is dont call the cops. When you call the cops, 100 million in career income on the line. Theyre going to tell the women that right. To not, you know, not make the claim and to lie and blame the victim. That thats always going to happen. So, again, for me, we have to shift the culture in order to make it the zero tolerance just something across the board that were all doing. Monty, how much do you think this affects behavior in the right ways and wrong ways. The big issue ive got with this as i think about it and look more at it, i heard goodells statement he gave with this and sure thought, boy, he sure says i and my a lot. A lot of first person singular. As if as much of this is supposed to be reaffirming the commissioner of the nfl. His credibility became tattered in the course of this when people compared that suspension to others for much less significant offenses. When i see this through goodell i wonder about this issue a lot of people are looking for him to legislate the right and wrong of the world and find that to be disturbing. I get the idea that, no, people shouldnt hit each other and with this issue you need anybody to take a stand that is willing to. I remain terribly uncomfortable with the idea that Roger Goodell is arbiter of right and wrong in the world. Thats the other thing that bothered me. The interesting wrinkle, zerlina, as a lawyer this is particularly important, the reason goodell can do this is because the nfl Player Association is the weakest commission in sports and theyd never allow him the kind of latitude to issue the decree from up high. I think what were missing, this sounds like a new policy but its not a new policy. Could have always suspended ray rice for six games or lifetime ban or one year he has an insane amount of discretion. Obviously the structural issue in terms of his power isnt at issue here but, again, cultural issue, not a problem, only in the nfl. Not a problem only in college, not a problem only in steubenville. Its a cultural shift that needs to take place. Thats part of it also in terms of what bomani is saying. This is a kind of thing where a lot of people can say, oh, yes, those big jacked up dudes in the nfl are the neanderthals that engage in Domestic Violence. The nfl has a Domestic Violence problem and now theyre getting tough on it. Everybody is like, look, were doing so much better and were not. Domestic violence is a problem in all socioeconomic statuses. All cultures, all neighborhoods. Its something we all have to deal with and not something that is a private issue. Thats one of the things, too, i think people have an uncomfortable a level of uncomfortability with dealing with Domestic Violence. They think its somebody elses business. This is also, bomani, i always remember that summer in which Ben Roethlisberger was accused by multiple women of Sexual Assault. There was never a conviction or a plea, but there were multiple accusations, and i think it was the next year when all of a sudden they were doing this Breast Cancer stuff with the pink and seemed like crass, reactionary pr management of the issue and this feels like that as well. It always works. Thats true. Thats completely true. You can never lose with more punishment. People really get off on punishment. Absolutely cannot lose with more punishment. One thing the nfl didnt talk about with this which is a compelling issue, how does this game affect the way these guys and brains being battered and everything else, how does this affect their behavior down the line . Zerlina maxwell, bomani jones, thank you both. President said something today that had his press secretary immediately taking to twitter and giving all sorts of interview, including to me, to clarify what the president said. Ahead. I dont want to put the cart before the horse. We dont have a strategy yet. I think what ive seen in some of the news reports suggests that folks are getting a little further ahead of where were at than we currently are. President obama sporting a tan suit that got a lot of mention on twitter, was in the midst of answering a question about whether hed need approval from congress to take the fight against isis into syria when he delivered the line his critics have already seized upon to blast him on Foreign Policy. We dont have a strategy yet. During a summer in which the entire world has been aflame in conflict, the president s conflict, and refused to take the big action pushed by Foreign Policy critics from both sides of the aisle made his Foreign Policy a popular political target. Dont do stupid stuff. White House Press Secretary ernest was quick to clarify the president s remarks. In his remarks today, he was explicit as he has been in the past about the comprehensive strategy well use to confront isil threat. I asked josh ernest a while ago exactly what needed to be clarified about the president s statement. Its really important for people to understand what the president s approach is. The president was asked specifically about the options that are available to him. The military options that are available to him for dealing with isil in syria. And the fact of the matter is the pentagon and the Defense Department is still hard at work on developing those options. The president is still considering how those options might fit into the broader more comprehensive strategy that the president has already laid out for dealing with isil. Okay. The fact of the matter so if youll allow me, let me talk about what the comprehensive strategy actually is. There are five components to that strategy. The first is the president believes, and this is most important one, the president believes that iraqs political leaders need to unite that country, unite the country of iraq, to confront the existential threat that isil poses to their country. Josh, wait, can i stop you on one . Sure. That is not given what the iraq political system has looked like since the American Invasion in 2003, if item one on your strategy is iraq has to do something that it has not yet ever done as a political entity, which is find some genuine crossconfessional National Unity to take on isis, you know, okay, fine, sure, but thats like saying, you know, if isis just goes away tomorrow is the first plank of our strategy. Not really, chris, because the stakes for iraqs political leaders and for that country have never been higher. They face an existential threat thats posed by this violent extremist organization. Its never been more to focus on the common enemy posed by isil. Theres a clear motivation for them that may not have existed before. So there is some optimism and evidenced by the fact they have made progress in the last several weeks in putting together the elements of a diverse leadership for that country. Now, theres more work to do. They still to have form a cabinet. They have made progress in terms of appointing a speaker, couple deputy speakers and kurdish president. They have in place a shia Prime Minister that needs to form a cabinet, and once thats done, youll have an inclusive government in iraq that can unite the country to face the threat thats posed by isil. This is not an easy situation. Its not an easy solution, but its the most important one and its never been more clearly in the interest of iraqs political leaders to do it. So, okay, that all sounds sensible, whether its going to happen or not is sort of a different question, but thats a completely sensible approach. Before getting to the strategy, though, there seems a fundamental existential question. Is United States presently at war with isil . No were working with international partners, iraqi and Kurdish Forces to take the steps necessary to mitigate the threat posed by isil. The first is, the president has already authorized military action in iraq to protect american personnel that are in iraq. So it was American Military strikes were consequential to blunting isils advance on erbil where there is an american consulate. American military strikes have also been beneficial in helping Iraq Security forces retake the mosul dam. The destruction of the mosul dam would have posed a threat to the safety and security of american personnel in iraq. Those both seem from sort of the kind of tactical pursuit of american interests and protection of american forces, both victories in the short term. But let me ask you this. The first air strikes against isil, or isis or is, whatever you call them, the first air strikes came in response to humanitarian emergency at mt. Sinjar with the yezidis. Theres reports today we havent done a humanitarian drop since august 13th. Were still bombing. Convince me this hasnt been a bait and switch or mission creep, when what started as a limited humanitarian mission to get the people off the mountain is now the mosul dam, erbil and strategy to vanquish isis . The president was clear. There would be two purposes associated with it. The first would be the protection of american personnel and that was blunting the advance on erbil and helping iraqs Security Forces retake the mosul dam. Those elements of Critical Infrastructure are critical to making sure that american personnel in iraq remain safe. The second element of the strategy was to use American Military force to prevent a humanitarian disaster. You had isil forces promising a genocide against the yezidis and other racial and ethic minorities in iraq. The president has authorized military strikes and thanks to the service and courage and skill of our men and women in uniform, those two elements over the last three or four weeks have been very successful. Josh ernest, white House Press Secretary. The man with the secondmost scrutinized job in washington today after president Barack Obamas tailor. Why are neoconservatives so in to Hillary Clinton . That question is ahead. Like dancing. When they wake up dry in pampers. While ordinary diapers only have 2 layers, pampers has 3 absorbent layers. So they stay up to three times drier. For up to twelve hours of protection. And good mornings. Wishing you love, sleep and play. Pampers. Ever since we launched snapshot, my life has been positively craycray. Whats snapshot, you ask . Only a revolutionary tool that can save you bigtime. Just plug it in, and the better you drive, the more cash youll stash. Switching to progressive can already save ye 500. Snapshot could save ye even more. Meat maiden bringeth to me thine spiciest wings of buffalo. Weve had a tempurpedic for a while. But now that we have the Adjustable Base, its even better. Male speaker 2 when i put my feet up on this bed, my stress just goes away. I go up, hey. Female speaker our tempurpedic is the best thing in our house, except for my husband. Wait. Wait. Where are you going . Female announcer 1 discover how tempurpedic can move you. Female announcer 2 save up to 500 on a tempurpedic mattress with Adjustable Base while supplies last at sleep train. The white house is struggling a bit to describe its Foreign Policy strategy right now. It is not alone. Events have come together this summer in such a way as to throw the normal politics of Foreign Policy into chaos. Were facing two different ongoing conflicts. One featuring russia and ukraine, the other involving the militant group known as isis among others in iraq and syria. Conflicts are so messy, complex, and utterly lacking in good options or clear answers theyve scattered the washington power structure into the fore winds as everyone scrambles to fig year out what to do. Add to that, Hillary Clinton, her hawkish sounding interview with Jeffrey Goldberg earlier this month in which she criticized the president for failing to intervene enough in syria. Dont forget the strain in the Republican Party led by rand paul who threw down gauntlet today in an opped attacking Hillary Clintons Foreign Policy from the left. We are lucky mrs. Clinton didnt get her way and the Obama Administration did not bring about regime change in syria. That regime might be isis. The left and right have essentially switched Foreign Policy positions in some major ways. Joining me now, writer and Foreign Policy analyst, ari gharib and dan klaidman. Aside from a few people, Lindsey Graham and john mccain, its fair to say, barbara lee, for instance, in the Democratic Party whos the only member of congress to vote against the original authorization use of military force. Theres just no matrix for theres a lot of criticism of the president , but the politics of all this seem remarkably influx to me. Yeah, look, first of all, its incredibly messy, violent world that doesnt lend itself to overarching theories of the case. What the doctrine ought to be. Yes. And then, you know, youve got obviously, you know, weve been at war for a very long time and so it is a warwary nation. Deeply. Lets be clear. Poll after poll after poll on everything is no, no, thank you, no thank you, no thank you, no thank you. You have rand paul whos testing this libertarian moment and obviously this is a position that plays well with his base with younger voters. Then there are generational issues at play here, too. Remember, Hillary Clinton came up in politics at a time when, in her formative years when, you know, democrats were pushing back very aggressively against the yes. The mcgovernites. Pacifism and weakness. More generally. Right. Do you think that the rand paul thing to me, the dynamics of the Republican Party have always struck me such that even if theres antiinterventionist sentiment in the base, the big funders and donor class are all very hawkish and none of this is going to wash out. It does seem to me that things are aligning in such a way that you could see someone like that actually getting further politically than they would have four years ago certainly. Yeah, i mean, i think thats true. You look at this kind of swing among the elites as compared to, say, george w. Bushs first term. Look what happened when obama said he was going to bring the vote for syria action to congress. A lot of people say that putin and his deal for a syrian chemicals weapons bailed out obama. The truth is, it bailed out john mccain. He was going to lose that vote in congress. Obama and john mccain were on the same side and they were going lose. Its a different Political Landscape with intervention were looking at now thats driven in part by the tea party. Theres elite donor money behind the tea party. Its difficult to articulate restraint, or just difficult to articulate at least to the kind of Foreign Policy elites who are leveraging the most criticism, like, were not going to go around and do a lot of stuff. You know, look, this could change quickly, and so there is peril for rand paul and for, you know, anyone out there whos suggesting that we should be pulling back and not intervening at all. All it would take would be one attack domestically, and look at the reaction understandably because it was so brutal, but look at the reaction to jim foley, the journalist who was beheaded. There are lots of other that is a descriptive truth about the politics but drives me crazy. No one cares about the fact that libya is a complete mess in which we the whole things a basket case. The fact of the matter, if there were to be an attack, you look at isis, we made isis, helped make isis in the iraq war. Its easy to identify the costs of nonaction. Youre choosing a counterfactual between those two. Absolutely. If you look at the isis leadership, a lot of these people are former generals. Iraqi soldiers. Right. Exactly. Iraqi soldiers who had no place to go, as they saw it. Ali gharib, dan klaidman. Thank you so much. All right. We will be right back. Shes still the one for you. And cialis for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moment is right. Cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. 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Health care. Remember obamacare, that big controversial piece of legislation . Well, we learned today that more citizens of pennsylvania are going to have access to medicaidstyle coverage. Republican governor there announcing today the federal government had approved his healthy p. A. Plan, a win for the 500,000 people who will qualify for federal subsidies to purchase private insurance. In arkansas, a red state that also agreed to a privatized version of medicaid expansion, an announcement came this week premiums for that exchange for next year are going to be 2 lower. Also a victory. Thats not the only Health Care Cost containment news. Huge news out of the medicare trust. Medicare costs for 2019 now projected to be 95 billion less than the original projections four years ago according to the new york times. Thats more money than the government was expected to spend that year on unemployment insurance, welfare, and amtrak combined. Or more depressingly, 1 5 of projected pentagon budget. Remember when the federal budget deficit was the number one issue and people were in the streets rending their garments over it . Oh, yeah, thats down to 3 of gdp, the lowest level since 2007 according to this Congressional Budget Office and the revision today on gdp growth in the Second Quarter has it up to 4. 2 after a 2. 1 decline in the first quarter. So, economy growing, deficit shrinking, longterm Health Care Costs shrinking. Also, good news in massachusetts today. Rdt is back at the helm of Market Basket. We brought you the story of the epic family feud that almost brought down a Supermarket Chain in new england. They rallied to bring back the ceo they loved arthur t. Demoulas after forced out by the board and his rival cousin. Artie t. Kept the prices low. And after months of negotiations and worker action, arthur s. And his supporters have agreed to sell artie t. Their shares. Welcome back, artie t. , and congratulations, employees of Market Basket. At least someone had a good summer. That is all in for the evening. The Rachel Maddow show begins now. My extended family is very, very invested in the Market Basket thing. Its sort of the biggest thing thats happened to my family in years. Its a great story. Its like the arab spring over there right now. Yes, exactly. I cant get over it. In new england, Market Basket is bigger than every other story in the country combined. I know it, man. Thanks. Thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour. Theres a lot to come on the show tonight regardless of Market Basket including the president making a dramatic and much anticipated afternoon announcement today in which he said we are not going to freaking war in syria, you guys. Will everybody please shut up about were going to war in syria . I never said were going to war in syria, were not going to war, have a nice weekend. It was a surprise announcement from the president in the sense nobody knew he was going to make an announcement. When everybody realized what he wasnt going to announce, it was kind of a big deal. And an unexpected one. Well have more on that in a moment