Sylvia matthews burwell. The confirmation should be an opportunity to examine the failures of obamacare and how people are hurting because of it. But Republican Opposition to the Health Care Law could mean a tougher time this goaround. It is still going to be painful for the administration to go through every detail of obamais care. The republican Minority Leader Mitch Mcconnell says we should expect the shortcomings during confirmation hearings. God love her. I dont know why she would want to do that, chris. Is she going to have trouble getting confirmed to this position . These confirmation hearings are going to be a goat roping. You mark that down. Weve marked it down. Goat roping. I dont know what it means. And here was the dramatic packed room beginning to to the burwell hearing. We have convened this hearing to consider the nomination of Sylvia Matthews burwell to be the next secretary of the at the present time of health and Human Services. Can you hear the goats . Can you feel the drama . No, youre not seeing things. Not too many people showed you up for the goat roping of Sylvia Matthews burwell. In fact, it was serene with one of her chief supporters being john mccain. Regardless of my objections to the Affordable Care act, the department of health and Human Services need competent leadership in the position of secretary. I believe ms. Burwell has the qualifications to run hhs and have the assurance that she will work with members of congress as she has as director of omb. I recommend strongly ms. Burwell and hope the committee will endorse her nomination. So that happened. Well, thats sort of change although, if you had been paying attention to the republican attempt to cross raid from obamacare to something else, it wouldnt necessarily surprise you. Because they are trying to very subtly move two Different Levels on the rhetorical switchboard at the same time its easy not to notice. There was a similar scene one day before. The republican controlled house was holding a subcommittee hearing with a bun of Insurance Company executives. But exits on the republican side allowed multiple defensemmocrat speak in a row and let heavy democratic criticism of repub c republicans go unanswered. There was a dirth of lawmakers on the left side of the rostrum and a full bench on the right. As republicans grew bored, democrats held sway to get to the bottom of how Many Americans were paying obamacare premiums, 67 as republicans have prematurely reported, or was it far higher . On the exchange 85 of the people paid, is that correct . Thats correct. 86 paid, correct . Thats correct. For 312014, 81 paid, is that correct . Yes. And for 412014, 83 paid, is that correct . That is correct. And youre still waiting for everybody else to pay because their deadline has not passed yet, is that correct . Thats correct. So it turns out people are paying of the the republicans who managed to stick around for the hearing were getting a bit frustrated. Identify any states where you are offering products in the exchanges where consumers can expect a premium decrease. At this juncture we do not have the information. You dont have the information . A lot of uncertainty floating around out there. Okay. So you dont know if your consumers are going to see any decreases. You know they were promised decreases. I thought that reading your reports you all did analysis and trend lines for the near term, the midterm and the long term. Has anybody done any kind of analysis . So what were republicans focused on now that they were no longer getting any traction on obamacare . Now that they are slowly, gently, sadly backing away from something that is working for many people. They are not passing legislation to end work place discrimination. You know what theyre doing. And we will not take any shortcuts to the truth, accountability, or justice. And we will not allow any side shows that distract us from those goals. House Speaker John Boehner announcing how the select committee on benghazi will not allow any side shows. Of course not. The great Obamacare Benghazi is happening right before our eyes. The early plan for republicans to run on the fail europe of obamacare has collapsed underneath them and they are searching for something to replace it. Theyve decided benghazi is that thing. So while republicans can barely be beared to stick around on health care, just hours ago the house passed resolution to establish a select committee on b benghazi largely along party lines. And almost every one of the 230plus House Republicans is clamoring to be among the Seven Members placed on that ben gazy select committee that will be chaired by tray gowdy. He said republicans shouldnt be fundraising off four dead americans. Speaker boehner in between his revved up base and common human decency. Four americans died in benghazi. Should the nrcc fundraise off of your efforts to the select committee . Our focus is on getting the answers to those families who lost their loved ones, period. But the Campaign Committee which you are very involved in is fundraising off of this. Why is that happening . Our focus is on getting the truth for the American People and these four families. If elected republic wrans understand one thing, they understand where the energy of the base is. And their behavior is always a great way to figure out what the base is exercised about and what theyre not that into. The base is no longer so worked up about obamacare. Its working. And as it does, little by little, each day with each small fact of people getting insurance, it shrinks as a political target. And so republicans need something new. If you dont believe the gop politicians are the best weather vane, how about roger ales at fox news, probably better than any single human being on earth can sense the anxieties of his audience. Fox news programming on these two topics, the Obamacare Ben gaz y at fox news on one graph. Wendtal, are you surprised by both the sort of substantive success and enrolling people and the slow backaway from it as a political target by republicans . Not at all. I saw that the Health Insurance industry was going to be having this kind of information as weve been watching the enrollment figures over the past several weeks. Keep in mind that the Insurance Industry during the Health Care Reform debate, they were siding with the republicans. They wanted to just spread this fear of uncertainty and doubt, and i might note that congresswoman blackman used that word, with which is at the core of their campaign to try to confuse people about the Affordable Care act. But the numbers are telling a different story and thats what were going to be seeing, i think, between now and november. Well, that was what was fascinating about that hearing yesterday, the kind of curtain raising moment republicans hyped this report. The Insurance Company said dont go with this data. Its shoddy. They were prepared to have their big political moment in the sun. The insurance executives who have been on both sides of obamacare at different times said actually, yes, people are paying. Thats exactly right. And weve been ive been saying this ive been watching the Analyst Reports for Health Insurance companies as theyve been releasing earnings. Theyve been doing very well, thank you, since the Health Care Law was passed. Their earnings have been almost off the charts in many cases as more people are signing up, which, you know, it makes the argument this was a government takeover of health care all that more ridiculous because private Insurance Companies are doing quite well. So are republicans just going to walk away from this and this will end up being something that two, three years from now is no longer a central political issue . I think they will after the midterm elections because it will continue to dissipate as a Campaign Issue for them. But theyre heavily invested in this and i think you will see certainly in l some districts and some states that they will keep this up. Once again, it will be a Campaign Based on fear, uncertainty and doubt, and it will be important for the democrats to dispel that and to remind people of what is in this law that benefits every one of us. Every day that more people are enrolled in had it, it gets ease wrer to make that case. Wendall potter, thank you very much. Thank you. All right. We are heading into the last two years of a twoterm incumbent democratic president , with which means were at the peak scandal point of the political cycle. While independent counsel ken starr was in full lewinsky mode and while then president bill clintons secretary testified before the grand jury for a third time on this day 16 years ago. The republican focus on scandal proved disastrous for House Republicans who ended up against all odds losing seats in the midterm election. By comparison how much do republicans really hope to b benefit from benghazi. Charlie pierce, writer at large for esquire magazine and esquire. Com. Charlie, do you see any parallels here . Ive been saying theyre not the that dumb, theyre not that dumb, theyre not going to go through this again. Im beginning to question what i thought before. Well, i mean, it takes a while to get the kangaroo suits out of mothballs. I do think i do think they understand the dynamic and i do think they have shortterm Political Goals that have blinded them to longterm political liabilities which is basically what happened in 1998. Thats right. What happened in 1998,s and here is where i see the replay, they started creating these institutions and bodies that had their own gravitational pull and momentum and once you had the independent counsel it kind of got out of everybodys hands pretty quickly. There were some people urging it on. To me, thats the danger thats the real danger by john boehner. You get subcommittees, you get stalling, invocations of executive privilege and the next thing you know youre on the road to escalating. Thats the thing. When you compare the obamacare issue and the benghazi issue i shudder to call it an issue but lets call it that for arguments sake you can make it up. You can make up the numbers on obamacare but sooner or later math is going to crush you. You can make up anything you want about the benghazi thing, and if the president withholds one email, its no longer about benghazi. Its about what are they hiding . And you get another two weeks out of that. And its the scandal which is the other part of it that is reminiscent of the clinton years. Before we got to mon cue lewinsky and the impeachment and some people remember or may not remember, this was this carousel of scandals, it was about Hillary Clintons investment in cattle futures, it was about everything, travel gate. And eventually they got somewhere and thats whats similar to me about benghazi. What the scandal is keeps changing. There was a memorable moment, ill never forget it, in a congressional hearing when ken starr came before a House Committee and was being questioned, i think much to his unhappiness by barney frank, and ken starr admitted that there wasnt anything on whitewater. There wasnt anything on travelgate. There wasnt anything on the cattle futures. There wasnt anything on the billing records. There wasnt anything on the suicide of vince foster. I think barney looked at him and said something like, it would have been nice if you told us that a year and a half ago. Thats exactly right. Charlie pierce, thanks always for your time, man. Thanks, chris. Last week we met the maryland gun dealer who wanted to sell the personalized ip1, the nations first smart gun. This is all about freedom. It really is, man. Even when the nra, the bastion of great freedom, they say this should be prohibited, how hypocritical is that . Theyre bowing down to fear, bro he. Its cowardice. Theyre afraid, so they bow down to that. And that is cowardice. That is not what people who stand for freedom do. You stand up and you fight for what you believe. You do not bow down. After word got out about his position, he got Death Threats and changed his mind about the smart gun. Andy joins me again tonight, this time from his gun shop. Next. 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Dont live in beatrices world. Live in the modern world where 7 and a half minutes could save you on Car Insurance. Esurance. Click or call. Its not for colds, its not for pain, its just for sleep. Because sleep is a beautiful thing™. Zzzquil. The nonhabit forming sleep aid from the makers of nyquil®. It has now been three days since our special report on that Digital Smart gun that could be a potential game changer that cannot be purchased anywhere in america t. Has been three days since new Jersey Senate majority leader a democrat, a longtime gun control advocate came on the show, made a truly remarkable offer to compromise. If the nra, the gun owners of america, those people who have stood in the way not only of the retail sales, they have also gone after gun manufacturers. Yep. Who were beginning to develop other technology other than armitex that if they would, in fact, get out of the way of preventing the research, development, and manufacture, distribution and sale, i would move to repeal this law in the state of emergennew jersey. She is offering it to repeal the law she helped write, that mandates once smart guns like the digital handgun that i tried out last week at a maryland gun range, a gun that can only be fired by an authorized user with a special watch, that once a gun like that goes on sale anywhere in the country new jersey gun sellers must eventually take all other guns off the shelves and only sell smart guns. The law was designed to encourage the development of safer, smarter guns that could save lives. For Second Amendment activists it served as prooch the government wanted to use smart guns to take traditional guns away. Two different Gun Store Owners who planned to sell the smart gun were bullied and intimidated into reversing course. I met one of them last week, andy raymond, staunchly progun conservative who told me bringing smart guns to the market was all about freedom but it was subsequently decided not the to sell them after he received Death Threats. We will not sell the armitex pistol. I will not be part of anyone be [ bleep ] over anyone when it comes to guns. I believe my principles were correct. Unfortunately maybe i was wrong. I dont know. So the people of new jersey, my apologies. You have nothing to worry about from me. Andy raymond like Loretta Weinberg was trying to find Common Ground, trying to make a little bit of progress in this intractable war of attrition that is american gun politics. The National Rifle association has simply not engaged. We have tried over and over again to get someone are from the nra to come on the show and respond to the offer to say whether the nra will stop blocking Smart Gun Technology in repeal for the new jersey law. The nra just will not come to the table. It it will not accept the olive branch. It will not even acknowledge the olive branch has been extended. Right now it remains impossible to buy a smart gun anywhere in this country thanks in part to an organization that claims to stand for americans having the right to buy whatever gun they want. Joining me now from his store in maryland is andy raymond, coowner. Andy, how are you doing . Im doing okay, boss. How are you doing . Im doing well. I wanted to check in on you because it was remarkable after we had that conversation to watch the trajectory of what happened, to read your facebook page, which we were all reading and the ugliness and nastiness on the facebook page, to watch your video about the decision you made to not sell the gun. Im curious what the reaction has been after that after we did the pace and in the wake of this whole fallout. Well, in the wake of all of this, things have been pretty positive. I got a lot of emails from a lot of people including the people i wanted to reach originally with the gun, fence sitters, antigun people. And ive even gotten emails from progun people saying you have every right to sell what you want to sell. Thats what i do. Im a gun dealer. So i thought that was pretty cool. I havent gotten a lot of negativity in the past few days and thats been refreshing. I thought we had a really good conversation. Weve exchanged emails. Were coming at the gun issue from very, very different sides of it. But one of the things i found worrisome or disturbing about what went down was that its one thing to argue about policy, but there was this real ugliness unleashed. You had that moment you said progun people, how about not calling people up with Death Threats. And i wonder if your view of some of the darkness that is in the progun movement has changed in response to seeing that ugliness up front. It has. You know, i think guns are one of the most divisive things we have in this can country to a certain degree. If people work on it its a black and white issue, i guess, to he so many people. It really brings out the best of people and the worst of people when we talk about this sort of stuff. I clearly ran into a lot of the worst of that. But, yeah, its definitely disheartening from people when i thought of this community and what not and everybody is calling for my head that, yeah, it definitely made me rethink about what i was doing and what im doing here and what im hoping to accomplish, what im dedicating my life to. Do you consider yourself d d dedicating your life to you have a business but to me it always struck me that its bigger than that. Its a cause for you. It is, it is. Thats why im here. To a certain degree, yes. It is a paycheck and its important to me but, you know, we deal with so much antigun sentiment and these messed up laws in maryland, its almost a point for me to fight it. I dont want to lose and i dont want to back down and thats sort of how i am. So, yes, i do this to a certain degree because i also believe in it. What do you think of we were sort of amazed when we called Loretta Weinberg and she said, you know what, how about we come to some middle ground on this . And i said to you when we were in that range, ive been persuaded this new jersey mandate law is bad law. You dont mandate something ten years ahead of market. What do you think of Loretta Weinbergs offer . Chris, that was the most that was exactly what im trying to get at with this whole thing. You, a guy i would consider antigun, cool guy. Dont get me wrong. Youre my buddy, but a guy i would consider antigun, senator weinberg, you guys are actually sitting there talking about repealing an antigun law. That is the Common Ground we found with this. Okay . We were able to say, hey, this law is actually against the free market. Its against the principles of the Second Amendment. However you want to say it. We were able to find Common Ground on this. How amazing when you had senator weinberg say i will repeal it, this law, under certain conditions but that is progress, man. That is what we were trying to do with this whole thing was trying to reach out across the aisle, so to speak, and get fence sitters and antigunners, we can kind of Work Together on this stuff. The obstacle we have now is the fact we cannot i literally want to talk to someone from the nra on the show. You can maybe, you know, vouch for me that im not going to jump down their throat or make them look bad. It does seem to me lets try to follow through on that and we just can get nothing from them. Well, you have to understand from the progun standpoint this technology is kind of dangerous. There is a law in new jersey mandating this stuff she did offer to repeal it, but there is a law on the books so, yes, that sort of stuff this sort of technology is dangerous when youre talking from a progun standpoint. But the fight we need to make is not against the technology. The fight is against legislation. You know what im saying . I dont know why i would also think the nra is about free market and stuff like that, too. I would i dont know what to say about that. Im not a member. But, yeah. They should have at least come on and talked to senator weinberg and at least thanked her, you know what im talking about, reaching across the aisle again. Thats what were looking for. Thats what we do. Andy raymond, coowner of engage armament, who is a great guy to go to the range with. Thanks, brother. Be safe. You too. New details on who is investigating the botched execution in oklahoma and how close they are to the governor who ordered the same execution. Passenger road trip buddy. 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There are a lot of buyers for a house like yours. husband thats good to know. Remember new jersey governorries christiess attempt to investigate himself and clear his name of any wrongdoing in the bridgegate scandal that . Is that strategy is a trend now. This time there are far, far more serious stakes and dire consequences. The day after the horrific botched execution of convicted murderer Clayton Lockett this month, died of a heart attack 43 minutes after receiving a totally untested lethal injection cocktail, Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin who, as we have reported, went to extreme lengths to put this man to death, made an announcement. I also ask the department of Public Safety and our commissioner, mychal thompson, to lead an independent review of the states execution procedures. Independent review. Well, it turns out that independent review is anything but. The man, mary fallin appointed to spear head it, Michael Thompson is, as she said, the commissioner of the States Department of Public Safety but that department, quote, reports to her within the executive branch and thompson is a former employee of the department of corrections, which also reports to fallin. The same department the of corrections that carried out locketts execution. And thats not all. The oklahoman reports that thompson was at the lethal injection in an official capacity. The man tasked with evaluating the states execution protocol because of a botched execution that may have resulted directly from fallins disregarding the Supreme Court when it ordered her to temporarily halt locketts and another inmates executions, that man not only reports to her, works for her, used to work for the very same department hes investigating, and is a material witness to the very execution that prompted this entire thing. So, mary fallin, we see what youre doing there in oklahoma. You are not fooling anyone. This entire mess deserves a genuine independent, thorough investigation. See, i figured low testosterone would decrease my sex drive. But when i started losing energy and became moody. Thats when i had an honest conversation with my doctor. We discussed all the symptoms. Then he gave me some blood tests. Showed it was low t. Thats it. It was a number not just me. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1. 62 testosterone gel. The 1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy, increases testosterone when used daily. Women and children should avoid contact with application sites. Discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. 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Th trail mix, and heres what you get after a full day of chasing that cute little poodle from down the street. Mm hmm delicious milos kitchen chicken meatballs. They look homemade, which he likes almost as much as making new friends yes, ill call her. Aww, ladies man. Milos kitchen. Made in the usa with chicken or beef as the number one ingredient. The best treats come from the kitchen. Ever since the infamous time for traffic problems in ft. Lee email went public Chris Christie has been challenged with the future. Imagine working up for the guy Whose Administration is under five, count them, fave, state and federal investigations, thinking how do we get the gov back on track . Perhaps he might be tempted to use christies highprofile national position, chairman of the republicans association. Chr christie could find a beloved fellow governor and do some photooping and some coattail riding if he could just throw his arms around a really popular republican politician. It might remind everyone how popular Chris Christie used to be. Thats almost what Chris Christie did it this week except instead after popular, beloved fellow republican, he decided to appear in public with this guy. Reporter when the governor declined invitation to the naach mar Martin Luther king breakfast monday as well as a special dinner sunday night, portland chapter president Rachel Talbott ross expressed concern that will he page declined the organizations invitations. A reporter asked the governor his thoughts. And whats your response to them saying this is more than one instance but a pattern . Tell them to kiss my butt. He seems nice. Yes, thats right, governor christie went to the great state of maine this week to campaign for the massively unpopular Tea Party Governor paul will he ple started his tenure by telling them to kiss his butt. And christie didnt Just Campaign with paul kiss my butt lepage. He let everyone know Chris Christie and lepage are two peas in a pod. We dont sound like everybody else. We tell the truth. Were very direct and the other people who dont like that are those who dont agree with our opinion. Thats right. They are very direct. Sometimes people dont like it. For instance the fine folks of the naacp who would rather not kiss lepages butt. Paul lepage being direct over the years like the time he defended the reverse ban on the chemical bpa in baby bottles by say i saying with a smirk, the worst that could happen was some women may have little beards. Or that time he was sitting in a fighter jet simulator and joked he wanted to blow up a local newspaper building. Or the two times he compared the irs to the nazis. Chris christie is right, paul lepage doesnt sound like everybody else. Joining me now is Michael Michaud of maine who is running against paul lepage. I think what the heck are they doing up there in maine . What is going on in your state . You have to have such a reputation for being sensible. How did this happen . Well, good evening, chris. Maine is an incredible state and mainers have a lot to offer. Unfortunately, because of our governor, were on the latenight tv shows with some of the comments that hes made. Thats not what maine is all about. Maine cares about one another. Mai mainers are there. Were a progressive state. And the fact the governor has come up with some of the comments like naach kiss my butt type of comments, thats not what mainers are about. Mainers care about everyone. And thats one of the reasons im running for governor, chris. Ive been able over the years and both the legislature and in congress able it to work across the aisle, work out issues and respect people. Even if you disagree with them, still respect their opinions. And thats one thing our governor does not do. So the respect is clearly an issue. Lets put aside the kind of verbal aggressiveness. Whats the record been for paul lepage in maine over the last four years . Well, his record has been terrible. You look at this governor, hes issued more vetoes than any other governor. Its very clear he doesnt know how to govern. And the fact hes vetoed bills that have by partisan support such as the expansion under the Affordable Care act for the 70,000 mainers for medicaid. It was a bipartisan compromise, republicans and democrats, and hes vetoed it a couple of times and thats wrong. He we put up this map on my show all the time. And theres this one state that sticks out like a sore thumb. You think to yourself how, of all the places, maine, for the love of god, that youre not expanding medicaid. Is that issue a big issue in the campaign . It did he haefinitely will b issue. The governor feels comfortable that mainers do not want to expand it. An overwhelming majority of mainers do want expansion under the Affordable Care act. And as governor on day one, ill submit legislation to expand access for the 70,000 mainers this governor has denied access to because of his vetoes. I dont find the guy particularly appealing. Whats the paul lepage appeal . If you look at how we got elected, there are five individuals in that race. He was elected by a minority of votes, of mainers. And the fact that this race is primarily a twoperson race between the governor and myself, i feel really good where im at today. Weve been leading in all the polls. We will be debating the issues. The. Congressman Michael Michaud who has never told me or anyone else, as far as i know, to kiss his butt. Thank you so much. What could put ted cruz on 0 the same side . The answer when we come back. How can i ease this pain . man when i cant go, its like bricks piling up. I wish i could find some relief. announcer ask your doctor about linzess a oncedaily capsule for adults with ibs with constipation or chronic idiopathic constipation. Linzess is thought to help calm painsensing nerves and accelerate bowel movements. It helps you proactively manage your symptoms. 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It is one of the most confusing, controversial issues in the entire nation and its percolating at the Grassroots Level making its way onto the national stage. Its the common core, a set of National Educational standards for our kids, and it sounds benign enough i think its one of the basic lies about common core that somehow it was state led and voluntary. Its insidious and we are not dealing with flesh and bone. We are not dealing with that. We are dealing with evil. Across the country conservatives are rising up against something they call obama core, known to everyone else as the common core. Mainstream republicans are railing against the standards, while fringe elements of the right wing peddle conspiracies to the end of our Education System as we know it. Two plus two equals five. Teach 5yearolds how to be transgender. If they can get away with that, they can do anything. Thats what this is. States and parents are urged to opt out. In march indianas republican governor became the first to sign a law getting rid of common core, and around 100 bills to stop, slow, or reverse the common core have been introduced in state legislatures this year alone. If youre a republican, common core is toxic. Its very unlikely that a supporter of the common core will be the nominee. And jeb bush is one of them. Correct. What is the common core and why is it so scary . It is a set of National Standards for what kids should know in each grade. Common core does two basic things. It raises academic standards nationwide. And, for the first time, an a will mean the same thing for students everywhere. That may seem harmless but it is shaping up to be one of the most politically explosive issues of our time. Across the country opposition is mounting against a new set of higher academic standards known as the common core, which many teachers say are being imposed too quickly. Children are stressed out and parents are upset. Goofy exam questions are going viral on facebook and it all blew up in the last few weeks when parent and comedian louie c. K. Went on a rant and showed up on letterman. What about the standard testing . If a schools kids dont test well, they burn the school down. Wow. Its pretty high pressure. A lot of pressure on the kids. Wow. And the tests are written by people that nobody knows who they are. Its very secretive. So how do we get here . In america what kids learn in a classroom has traditionally been determined by states in local school districts. Reformers have seen this as a weak weakness. In the 1990s, president clinton made the case for National Standards. Tonight i issue a challenge to the nation, every state should adopt high National Standards. And by 1999 every state should test every fourth grader in reading and every eighth grader in math to make sure these standards are met. Yet with the Republicancontrolled Congress those policy proposals were met with resistance. But then came this guy. As of this hour, americas schools will be on a new path of reform. And a new path of results. No child left behind tied federal money to standardized testing. It turns out now three years after this law was passed, a growing chorus of critics say its leaving the states and local School Systems behind by requiring expensive testing but not paying for it. But it left the testing design to the states. So states could do one of two things. Raise their students performance or lower the bar they had to clear by making the tests easier. Guess which one they started doing . Education reformers then sought to create National Standards everyone would adhere t. O. A Bipartisan Coalition of groups including the National Governors association and the council of chief state School Officers with money from the Gates Foundation hired a private company to help write and research what would become the nations first common core standards. Enter Barack Obamas signature education proposal. With the race to the top fund we will reward states that come together and adopt a common set of standards and assessments. Race to the top worked with carrots rather than sticks, dangling tons of federal money in front of states that adopted the obama administrations education guidelines. And while common core wasnt required, states knew adopting the standards would help them get that money. Oh, and one more thing, teacher evaluations would be tied to students meeting these new standards. As of today 44 states plus the district of columbia have adopted the common core standards. But very few parents in those states know the long checkered history of National Standards. The way common core has been introduced into most peoples homes is in the form of a stressed out kid laboring over a new set of problems for yet another standardized test. Im there for them in those moments. Come on, look at the problem. I look at the problems, bill has three goldfish. He buys two more. How many dogs live in london . Something like that. Right now reare in the midst of an attempt to change education for millions and millions of kids in this country. The only problem no one is being told what is going on. To many teachers it means yet another attack after decades of reform that have targeted them. To parents, it means stressed out kid in an era of highstakes testing. And for some of americas right wing, its all an insidious plot for obama to get into your childs mind. So were going to have a debate between pro and anticommon core advocates ahead. Stick around. In pursuit of all things awesome, amazing, and thats epic, bro, weve forgotten just how good good is. Good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. Good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ] good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments. 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Its a prejorative term to call something obama core amongst conservatives and thats exactly where where we are. But if people dont recognize that dumbed down standards are going to achieve yield the same result that weve had, then were real areally missing the chance to move forward as a country. So im totally committed to this. Joining me now the president of the American Federation for teachers randy wine garden and Joyce Stevens who was an elementary schoolteacher. I wanted to have you both here. Youre on different sides of this issue on the common core, and what i think is interesting about the common core looking at our feed, people are all over the map on it. Across the ted cruz and louis c. K. And lefty teacher folks who hate it and alex jones on his radio show, and jeb bush who likes it, barack obama who likes it. What is the case for it . Why do you support common core standards . So even i dont support it the way its implemented right now in new york and wish that new york had done what we suggested last year which was a moratorium on the stakes of the test. That is crossing, part of the reason this is blowing up in living rooms across the country. What youre seeing in california where they did do that and gave teachers a chance to really get to know the transition, you dont have that. Defend the idea. So the idea was that there is some knowledge that kids need to know and be able to do. To be able, these days, to have middleclass jobs in america, you have to be able to critically think and apply knowledge, not just know things. Right. And so it was taking moving away from the rote memorization of no child left behind which did for 20 years create basically rote memorization and it was moving towards something ive seen in new york city a lot and i used to teach when i was a high skool te school teach er which is how do you do the socratic method in High School Social studies. No child left behind, we get the introduction of high stakes testing across the nation. Theres a sense of teaching to the test, cramming. Common core is the antidote to that. The idea is, yes, you should be able to do these Critical Thinking skills. Everyone in second grade should be able to do this. In third grade be able to do this. You distribute it. You have 44 states who signed on. Whats the problem . That sounds good to me. Here hads the thing. As randi mentioned before common core she did a lot of really great things in her classroom. She did indepth teaching. All of that was possible before. What was Holding People back, number one, is a lack of resources and, number two, a lack of free tomorrow once high stakes testing came in and there was that increased pressure to teach to the test. So thats been the core issue in schools in terms of not teaching to high standards and not teaching Critical Thinking is this requirement to really teach down to what can we show on a fill in the bubble test. And so the issue here that many of us have is that we didnt need necessarily different standards. And so where did this push for standards come from . The two organizations that created this, their education work of the National Governors association and states chief officers is their education is heavily underwritten by Testing Companies and curriculum builders this is part and parcel of the comodification of education that a lot of people have a problem with. This is the one place i disagree because i totally agree the testing has totally overtaken the teaching and, frankly, the comodification has overtaken everything. But this is where and i just want so people understand market, market, market. Growth of the test prep industry. The education industrial complex. Exactly. Which is managing both for profit and nonfor profit, billions of dollars floating around. The fact that this became about testing and not the about teaching has made it really terrible. But this is where i tis agr disagree. Texas has an adopted common core, were 60 years after brown versus board of education. All of the civil Rights Groups from lccr, from naacp, the National Urban league, what they have said and thats been very compelling to me is that the only way were going to break through equity is if we create some access to these Higher Standards for kids in alabama, for kids in buffalo. But, sabrina is quite right, you cant do it in a vacuum. You cant just say, okay, here are the standards. Do nothing. You have to have the resources to work it. Before you respond, i just want to make clear here because theres a lot of this. The standards are set by this they were written and its a binder. You can go down exactly. Its a thing, right . The standards arent a curriculum but the curricula adjusts to the standards and the highstakes testing adjusts the curriculum and thats all bound up in peoples minds. When they see the test, oh, its the standards. The thing is first of all when you have people say thats exactly what bush said, what obama said. Were going to have high standards. Were going to test every year to make sure theyre met. Those things are linked. The other thing i would say, too, part of what makes the conversation so confusing is that a lot of people are conflating two different things. T people are signing on to the idea of Higher Standards because theyre thinking in their minds, i have high standards for people in my life. Theyre not thinking about academic standards. When all is said and done academic standards are words in a binder. Without the supports, without the people in the room who bring this stuff to light why should it not be the case . So here is the standard. Because this had is so for academics or for educators this is not a bad standard. Delineate and evaluate the argument and specific claims in a test assessing whether the reasoning is sound and the evidence that is relevant and sufficient. So for eighth graders thats not terrifying but its the testing that has made it terrifying and the lack of resources. This issue is much bigger. I could never do this on my cable news show. Well have to leave it there. I want to come back to it. I am fascinated by this issue. I, myself, dont know how to feel about it. I learned a lot tonight. Thank you both for coming. Education activist sabrina Joyce Stevens and Randi Weingartner who is answering your questions on msnbc. Com. Good evening, rachel. Thanks to you at home for joining thus hothis hour. The tea party in oklahoma, the sooner tea party in oklahoma, the one way you know they are in trouble, this right now is their website. You type in sooner tea party. Org and look what comes up. That is a lot of things but it does not look like your Typical Tea Party website. If you allow google to Google Translate it for you, things do not get that much better for you. The laundry you do you are in how laundry . Those are roughly have been awash in the washing machine of the house. But i guess some people the