Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20140429

The clippers but an existential crisis for the entire league. Reporters who cover professional basketball already understood things about Donald Sterling. That thanks to this weeks audio dump the rest of the country is now being introduced to. Yeah, it bothers me a lot that you want to promo broadcast that youre associating with black people. Do you have to . Over the weekend, the world all got to know l. A. Clippers owner Donald Sterling a little better. Late friday night the gossip website, tmz sports, published audio of someone purported to be sterling talking to his then girlfriend. You can sleep with them, you can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. The little i ask you is not to promote it on that and not to bring them to my games. He told her not to bring black people to his games. Nbc news has not been able to confirm the thauthenticity of t recording. Deadspin released an extended version of the exchange. Do you know that you have a whole team thats black that plays for you . Do i know . I support them and give them food and clothes and cars and houses. Who gives it to them . Does someone else give it to them . Do i know that i have who makes the game, do i make the game or do they make the game . The statements quickly led to speculation about what action the nba and National Basketball Players Association would take before the clippers sunday playoff game. The Clippers Organization released a statement saying mr. Sterling is emphatic that what is reflected on that recording is not consistent with or does it reflect his views, beliefs or feelings. Clippers Center Deandre Jordan uploaded an all black photo to instagram that was widely interpreted as a protest against sterling. Chris paul, acting as his role as head of the Players Association said they would be looking into next steps. The nba said it would be investigating the disturbing and offensive statements. But as many close observers pointed out, sterling had a history of alleged racism, including a multiMillion Dollar payout obtained by the department of justice to settle allegations he discriminated against africanamericans in apartment complexes he owned. At the time, it was the largest such payout in history. One that the nba was certainly aware of. Dont just blame Donald Sterling for this. This is a guy they have kept around for three plus decades. Theres been a pattern of terrible behavior, and racism. Nobody is surprised that this happened. Charles barkley and others agree, saying the nba has to act. When youre in a position of power and you can take jobs and Economic Opportunity from people, thats what crosses the line. But we cannot have an nba owner discriminating against a league that were a black league. I think the league needs to take a very long, hard look on whether this guy should continue being an owner or not. Lakers star kobe bryant tweeted i couldnt play for him. The biggest name in the league, lebron james, said sterling would have to go. Theres no room for that in our game. We cant have that. We cant have it from a player, an owner, a fan, so on and so on. It doesnt matter if youre black, whites are hispanic or whatever the case may be. By sunday the controversy reached the other side of the world, the president weighing in from malaysia. I dont think i have to interpret those statements for you. They kind of speak for themselves. That afternoon all eyes were on the clippers playoff game against the golden state warriors. There will be certain player that say will be great and there will be certain players that have been thinking about this all night and they cant function. Magic johnson, who is mentioned in the purported recording of sterling said the 80yearold billionaire shouldnt even own a team. He shouldnt own a team anymore. He should stand up and say i dont want to own a team anymore. Donald sterling did not attend the game, while his estranged wife sat courtside. As the team walked out, they threw their warmup jerseys at center court. Its a unified statement from the clipper players wearing their warmup shirts inside out so the word clippers are not across their chests. They went on to lose the game 11897. To some, their silent protest wasnt strong enough. In the meantime, the Players Association has demanded that sterling be banned from all playoff games. Its now up to the nba to act. A published recording may be new, but allegations of racism against Donald Sterling are very much not. Joining me now, liam roaden, sports columnist and author of 40 Million Dollar slaves. Bill, i thought about your book and thought about that title and thought Donald Sterling had read it and interpreted it as a proactive model that he was sort of explicitly endorsing in that conversation that is alleged to be him on the tape. Or maybe, chris, maybe he was testing it, you know. You know, ive got a lot of comments about the book which back when i wrote it, people were come on, guys are making 40 million, how can they be slaves . The whole point of the book is about power. Is that wealth doesnt always equate with power. You have a league with a lot of wellpaid guys but the question is who pays you . If somebody can afford to pay 15 of you 10 million, how much money are they making . And so i think this is a very interesting point and a lot of things. People wondering what are the players going to do . What can the players do . Some people said the protest wasnt enough. You know, there are a lot of my colleagues who would like to see something more dramatic. You know, like striking or burning the uniforms or banning. I personally think, chris, the players are in a tough position. Yeah. Theyre contractually obligated, but i do think that this is a time for fans, consumers basically, to speak out. I mean if you embrace this, you know, then go to the games. But if this really bothers you, then stay away. You know, thats hard because people are addicted to the spectacle of the nba playoffs. Theres two things about sterling, i thought, that are pretty shocking. One is what the record has been and the fact that people have turned the other way. The other is heres a guy who theres a strong empirical case is the worst owner in all of professional sports. I mean has the losingest record, is horrible at what he does and yet you want to talk about power, you want to talk about wealth, hes still in the club. The team is appreciated hugely and the question is how can everyone hold this guy to account. How did the nba let this go on so long. You know, im thinking because of what he just said, because he was so terrible, a lot of the owners in the west wanted him to be there because he kept them from being in last place. Thats like alabama used to say thank god for mississippi. You know, i think a lot of owners are please let there be sterling because the franchise was so cheap, so terribly run so as long as it was there, you knew if you were portland, the lakers, you know, seattle when they were out there, well, were not going to be in last place because of the clippers. Now the irony is that theyre really turning the corner. They really are, because of doc, because of chris paul, you know, griffin, they really are becoming a very viable franchise. So its so then the question becomes does the league has it, as i understand, in the constitution of the league, there is the power to take the franchise away and theres certainly the power to suspend him. I think back to what happened to marge schott and her comments with the Cincinnati Reds about hitler and antisemitic comments and she was suspended for a year. What do you anticipate this owners club is going to do to one of their own . I think if in fact these comments are his, there are actually two provisions. There are two provisions in the constitution. One that allows the commissioner to step in when theres not really a penalty for an unprecedented act to act. And another one governs an act of a nonplayer. You know, so i think that if in fact this is true, and because theres so much heat on adam silver, poor adam silver, i think that at the very least theres going to be a long suspension. Probably a ban from probably daytoday operations. But, you know, the question is how do you really hurt a billionaire . What do you particularly if you make him sell a team that he bought for about 17 million and is probably worth between 800 million and 1 billion now, which also says something about power and wealth and how those two might or might not be related. William rhoden from the New York Times, thank you so much. Joining me now, ben jealous. Hes a partner at the kpor center. Heres a guy whos got a heinous record. I will say this, a record that is alleged to be heinous in court fiedle in civil suits. Sure. Who was honored by the local chapter of the naacp, who was going to be honored again. And it wasnt like people didnt know this guys record. I want to read you a column written back in may, 2009, about the local chapter of the l. A. Naacp giving him an award after this settlement, the largest settlement ever on fair housing discrimination. Naacp air brushed this away, simply said sterling has been a gem in giving oodles of tickets away to needy inner city kids. Ladling out some cash to charities and sports camps for them. How did this happen . Look, theres an investigation going on right now and it needs to happen. And the association needs to make sure that this cant happen in the future. I mean its you know, there are 1200 different, if you will, bodies throughout the naacp who get to choose, you know, honored at the dinner. Were active in 1200 communities. How this decision was made once, but twice, thoroughly i dont understand. Its leaving you speechless. Really, really, really. And so, i think the association is doing ultimately what needs to be done. Theyre doing an investigation and they have to come out and figure out how this cannot how to ensure this cannot happen again. But what frustrates me, chris, each time that one of these things happen is that there seems to be an inverse relationship in the media between the number of people impacted by an act of racism and how much the National Media is willing to talk about it. I mean the association sued an entire city in Los Angeles County for housing discrimination two years ago and it was like crickets from the National Media. They just didnt want to talk about it. The president picks up our charge or now the associations charge to go after the persistent discrimination against longterm Unemployed People in this country who were disproportionately black and brown. We dont really talk about it. The troy davis case, it took 15 years to get the National Media to focus on it. Or the case of this guy. I mean here you have you have a lawsuit alleging deeply heinous, malicious instances of Racial Discrimination in which, again, a lawsuit that was settled for an undisclosed amount in which it is alleged that he is directing his people to bar black tenants, to harass black and latino tenants out of buildings that he is renting to, in the case of an elderly woman who was half paralyzed, not answering her calls for repairs in a flooded apartment. Deeply heinous allegations and that got 1 1,000th of the coverage that this taped conversation will get. Thats absolutely right and the president of the naacp said that she suspects money was a factor here. That the local branch was trying to raise money, theyre volunteers, and this is something who they see as being generous in his Charity Towards the community. If persistently having trouble. But that frankly isnt good enough. Shes absolutely right, there needs to be an investigation. We need to make sure this cant happen again. But in the meantime we as a country have to get beyond our fixation just simply on the racism of individuals and actually look at the racism of institutions. We need to be asking ourselves if this guy who employs all these people are saying this how many other people are saying things like this that arent being taped and released is the first thing that popped in my mind, particularly when i thought about owners, the owners of the other nba teams. Lord knows what bosses around the country and owners around the country are saying in private conversations thats being taped, civil and human rights activist, ben jealous, thank you. Thank you. Coming up, more on the reaction to Donald Sterlings comments. Former nba player etaun thomas will be my guest next. Stick around. music defiance is in our bones. Defiance never grows old. Citracal maximum. Calcium citrate plus d. Highly soluble, easily absorbed. Pcentury link provides reliable yit Services Like multilayered Security Solution to keep your Information Safe secure. Century link. Your link with whats next. The was a truly amazing day. Without angies list, i dont know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. For over 18 years weve helped people take care of the things that matter most. Join today at angieslist. Com to get your clients attention. From brochures to business cards to banners. Everything. Except your clients attention. Thousands of products added every day to staples. Com, even bullhorns. How much . [ male announcer ] staples. Make more happen. Today comedian bill mayer tweeted his reaction to the Donald Sterling story. Take away his team . Include the clippers have played yesterday . Calm down. Being an ahole is still legal in america. Well talk more about that when bill joins me here tomorrow night. You dont want to miss it. People here know that our operations have an impact locally. Were using more natural gas vehicles than ever before. The trucks are reliable, thats good for business. But they also reduce emissions, and thats good for everyone. It makes me feel very good about the future of our company. But when we put something in the ground, feed it, and care for it, dont we grow something more . We grow big celebrations, and personal victories. We grow new beginnings, and better endings. Grand gestures, and perfect quiet. We grow escape, bragging rights, happier happy hours. So lets gro something greater with miraclegro. What will you grow . Share your story at miraclegro. Com. Do you make a message as a member of that clipper team or what is the reaction . What happens when you take the floor the next day . Well, you know, you still have to go out and do your job. Donald sterling is one man and i agree with chuck, he owns the team, but theres a lot more at stake. What we have to understand is all these young men need their jobs, though, right . And they need to take care of themselves and their families. So we cant blame doc rivers or the players. They have to do their job to take care of their families and play the game that they love. Despite what was said on tnt and es pcht n over the weekend, playing the game and doing their jobs wasnt a foregone conclusion for the clippers before yesterday. There was a question of whether they should have boycotted the game, refused to take the court. It was something the clippers reportedly did consider. Ultimately they took the floor after a silent protest. They turned their practice jerseys inside out that seemed to disscarred their public identity and just a few moments ago the miami heat did the same thing. Like the heat tonight, once sundays game started, the clippers put their teams game jerseys on and more or less that was that. Now, under the circumstances there was no obvious choice for what the clippers shove dould h done. Now theres a report the clippers are considering making a stronger statement during tomorrows game in los angeles. There certainly was no shortage of criticism for their muted symbolic protest on sunday. But then again, everyone has got someone that signs their paycheck, and it is easy to judge how other people react to their own boss. So i want to talk to a former nba player who had a reputation for being unafraid to speak up and speak out, even when he was playing. Joining me now is former nba player, etan thomas. Hes authored more than an athlete. What was your reaction to the symbolic gesture during warmups the clippers did on sunday . Well, i understood. They made it very clear that they were going to give adam silver, the new commissioner, his time to do his due process. Kevin johnson, who is now speaking for the Players Association, said hes going to give him by the start of game five. Thats tomorrow. Everybody i know wanted them to have a bigger statement, but theyre working with the commissioner to see exactly what he is going to come down with as a punishment. And, you know, the commissioner said that he was just as appalled by this as everybody else was, but there needs to be Something Else in place. Just because the way that the players are held to a certain standard. So you can be suspended from a team and the only thing they have to give, the only thing they have to give is conduct detrimental to the team. There has to be the same standard to the rest of the employees of the nba. For the gm, for the president s, for the ceos like Donald Sterling. They have to be held for conduct detrimental to the nba, because thats what his statements actually have done, have been detrimental to the entire nba. To the image of the nba and now economically, as you see Different Companies pulling out of sponsorship by the truckloads. And so what hes doing is really hurting the entire league as a whole, so there needs to be something in place. There needs to be checks and balances but theyre waiting to see what commissioner adam silver is going to do tomorrow. So really the ball is really in his court. Its interesting youre putting this on the commissioner and the fellow owners as opposed to the players. I had a somewhat similar reaction because i felt like i heard people condemning the players for not standing up or speaking out more strongly. My instinct was in some ways it was a little strange to put it on them. At the same time, if there was ever a moment that you could have done something dramatic and not had anyone question it, if they had boycotted or Something Like that, that would have been the time, right . Well, yeah, but you have to let the system play itself out. I mean theyre giving everything time. Adam silver said to just give him a little time to do the due process. Hes going to do whatever he needs to do and then make an announcement. The announcement comes tomorrow, so just be patient. After he does his announcement tomorrow, if its a little bit slap on the wrist, then its time for more drastic things. But and theres precedent for adam silver. Theres what happened in cincinnati in 99 with marge schott and they removed her, made her give up her sell her interests in the Cincinnati Reds after her racist comments. Now, its a little bit tough right now because we know what Donald Sterling originally paid for when he bought the clippers and what its worth now. He paid, what, 15, maybe 17 million and now its half a billion that he would net so thats not really a punishment, you know. I mean thats not really a punishment. So what needs to happen is he needs to really feel it in his pocket, which is, you know, maybe they could have it to be open like what the Green Bay Packers did and sell it to the public. Or just remove him. You know what they should do is have him give him back what he originally purchased it for and send him on his way. Buy the team for 17 million. Thats what they should do. I should read the official statement from doc rivers whos out with a lengthy statement tonight. Saying id like to reiterate how disappointed i am in the comments of Donald Sterling. I had a meeting with members of our organization and we want to make the right decision here. Were doing our very best. We know fans are in a dilemma as well. We want them to cheer for their players and their team. From the fans that i have heard from, thats how they feel. I keep coming back, this is my team, these are my players im cheering for, thats not going to change. I hope Staples Center is packed. Players are in the middle of it and have to deal with it. I keep coming back to that line in the sterling tape thats pretty profound not just about basketball but the relationship between employers and employees, between labor and capital, workers and bosses. He says who makes the game . Do they make the game or do i make the game . And the fact of the matter is, what is the answer to that question . Because thats kind of a profound question. When you were playing, did you feel like you made the game, etan thomas, in a tremendously talented athlete in the top of athletes or did you feel like the owner made the game . This is the problem, that he thinks that hes bigger than he is and hes more important than he is. They dont come there to see him, they come to see chris paul, blake griffin, Jamal Crawford and deandre jordan. Not to see him sitting in his row with his girlfriend. Thats not what they pay their money to come see. But he is a representative of a much bigger problem. Some people say who cares if he is a racist. But when youre in a position of power like he is, when youre able to inflict that racism like he did in the discrimination lawsuit, that was the biggest discrimination settlement in l. A. History. Belongs to him to the tune of 2. 7 million. When you have a history of racism, you shouldnt be in another position where you can assert that racism again. When child sex offenders move into a new neighborhood, everybody is known that they are child sex offenders and they have to register so they cant be in positions of power and hurt people who hurt children. I think Donald Sterling needs that same provision where they cant be in positions because its a lot bigger than just him having a problem with black people. Regular white guy having a problem with black people. No, hes in a position to hurt people and theres no place in the nba for that. Im imagining a kind of like drive down road in Beverly Hills ringing door bells announcing that he is a racist. Hi, im Donald Sterling, moving into the neighborhood and im a racist. You can look in Court Documents and see that. Those are complaints in a lawsuit but yes, etan thomas, always, always wonderful to have you. Thanks for having me. Coming up, vice News Reporter Simon Ostrowski was released last week. He joins me to talk about why he wants to go back there, ahead. In pursuit of all things awesome, amazing, and thats epic, bro, weve forgotten just how good good is. Good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. Good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ] good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments. So start your day off good with a coffee thats good cup after cup. Maxwell house. Good to the last drop maxwell house. I just saved 15 on carim insurance in 15 minutes. Dont live in beatrices world. Live in the modern world where 7 and a half minutes could save you on car insurance. Esurance. Click or call. Why relocating manufacturingpany to upstate new york . I tell people its for the climate. The conditions in new york state are great for business. New york is ranked 2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. And now its even better because theyve introduced startup new york dozens of taxfree zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. Youll get a warm welcome in the new new york. See if your business qualifies at startupny. Com if you google the words obamacare microchip prepare to fall down an antigovernment youtube vortex. If like me you have a perverse fascination with conspiracy theories. Like the death panels, this is one of those rumors that zings around and prompts debunking responses from serious Media Outlets who have to patiently explain that was never true and the Affordable Care act doesnt require microchipping and its all very funny. Except for this little anecdote from the New York Times. Quote, the Political Polarization complicates our efforts to enroll people and educate people about the Affordable Care act. Theres no question, said perry bryant, head of West Virginians for Affordable Health care, literally people thought there would be chips embedded in their bodies if they signed up for obamacare. Those are the human consequences of the ceaseless propaganda war demonizing obamacare. It doesnt just make fodder for goofy internet high jinx its standing in the way of improvements in peoples lives. The fear maurnging about the Affordable Care act is stopping people from signing up, like those folks in west virginia. Or this guy, dean, who told his story to the philadelphia inquirer. He was so resistant to submitting to obamacare that he refused to sign up even though he needed to have a heart valve replac replaced. Finally his friend staged an intervention helping him apply and choose a plan which enabled him to have lifesaving surgery. Without that, he said, i probably would have ended up falling over dead. It is not hyperbole to say fee maurnging almost took his life. But as sure as im sitting here talking to you, there are people in this country who are lied to about this law, who believe those lies and are going to pay for it with their own health. Paranoia is its own kind of communicable disease. Tall the building is, or how ornate the halls are. It doesnt matter if there are granite statues, or big mahogany desks. When working with an investment firm, whats really important is whether the people behind the desks actually stand behind what they say. Introducing the schwab accountability guarantee. If youre not happy with one of our participating Investment Advisory services, well refund your program fee from the previous quarter. Its no guarantee against loss and other fees and expenses may still apply. Chuck vo standing by your word, thats what matters the most. Explaining my moderate to severe so there i was again, chronic plaque psoriasis to another new stylist. It was a total embarrassment. And not the kind of attention i wanted. So i had a serious talk with my dermatologist about my treatment options. This time, she prescribed humiraadalimumab. Humira helps to clear the surface of my skin by actually working inside my body. In clinical trials, most adults with moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis saw 75 skin clearance. And the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer have happened. Blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening Heart Failure have occurred. Before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. Ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. Tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. You should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. Make the most of every moment. Ask your dermatologist about humira, today. Clearer skin is possible. And this park is the inside of your body. See the special psyllium fiber in metamucil actually gels to trap some carbs to help maintain healthy blood sugar levels. Metamucil. 3 amazing benefits in 1 super fiber. Simon ostrovsky is someone weve relied on to get firsthand accounts of what is going on in you kraen and hes done some fantastic reporting from that country, in particular from the dangerous epicenter of what may be a slow motion russian take overof Eastern Ukraine. Last monday simon was abducted by armed prorussian militants. Just hours before his abduction, simon was interviewing a man who the New York Times was saying was a Russian Special forces soldier, evidence that Russian Special forces are indeed, as long suspected, leading the armed takeover in Eastern Ukraine. Simon asked the bearded man if he was the Russian Special forces officer identified in the New York Times. [ speaking Foreign Language ] ive just seen my first russian passport on an armed man here in Eastern Ukraine. Hes from the kuban region of russia. The New York Times showed a picture of a man who looks like him from georgia in 2008 who was part of the Russian Special forces, claiming that he was that man, but it seems that hes somebody else. But he is actually from russia. Again, about one hour after filming that report in which simon was working to uncover the official secret most zealously guarded, russia involved in Eastern Ukraine, this happened. When we got to the final checkpoint, which was literally maybe 300, 400 yards away from our hotel, a man pulled a piece of paper out of his pocket with my face on it, shined a light on my face, showed it to his friends. His face lit up and hes like i got him, i got hilm, this is hi. That terrifying moment was the beginning of a threeday abduction. Joining me its my great pleasure to welcome safe and found vice News Reporter simon ostrovsky. Its great to meet you in person. I feel like i know you, i have this connection to you. We were very upset about your abduction so im so glad youre here safe and sound. Its good to be back in new york. I want to say thanks for being such a strong advocate for me while i was being held there because i know now since ive come out youve been on your show a couple of times mentioning me and i really appreciate that. Well, i just happen to know that the peoples mayor is a huge msnbc fan and delivering those direct camera addresses would get this all wrapped up. I think thats what did it. So take me through this. Youre at the checkpoint. Ive got him, ive got him. Whos at the checkpoint . Whos manning that checkpoint and why do they have your picture . My picture had been circulating for about a week and a half before on the internet on russian social net works with a message saying i was a liar working for the kiev authorities, paid propagandaist. So somebody on the internet was trying to get it out there that i was criticizing the prorussia stance in Eastern Ukraine. The people at the checkpoint, theyre locals mostly, wearing camouflage with guns. One of them had a machete, another guy had a shotgun, a couple of them had ak47s. At the checkpoints its mostly youngsters but its at the Security Headquarters where they took me later where the really scary guys came into play. And what happened there . I was led to the Security Headquarters. They blind folded me, tied my hands behind my back. Led me down into a cellar and two or three guys beat me up for the next sort of ten minutes, beating me like on my torso, clapping me on the head with their hands and telling me that they would shoot me, threatening to kill me essentially and telling me that if i died, nobody would ever find my body or remember me. And was this to terrify you . Was this to try to get you to confess to the fact you were a spy . What do you think they were trying to do . At that point in time, i think they were trying to scare me because they knew that they were going to hold me so they wanted me to behave. And by intimidating me very early on, you know, the threat of more physical violence would mean that id cooperate with whatever they wanted me to do. But i think the whole greater purpose of what they did was to intimidate me and other journalists more generally from criticizing the prorussia forces. So who are this is the thing. When we are following a story its like who the heck is the peoples mayor. I want to play some questions of your abduction. [ speaking Foreign Language ] who is this guy . Who are these people . As far as i know, hes a local businessman from slov aan who had a soap factory that he ran and somehow he rose to the top of this chaos. Whether he was chosen by whatever forces were at play here or whether he just sat himself up as the boss of the town, i dont know. But until a few weeks ago, nobody knew his name. And he is now effectively running the town with thugs that are abducting a journalist and beating him up. Hes calling himself the peoples mayor. Nobody actually voted for him. But hes got gangs of armed men hanging russian flags on top of ukrainian builds, manning checkpoints, abducting people and holding hostages. Hes held over a dozen hostages so far. What is his name . His name is pennamariof. The big question that looms all over this is the kind of crypto nature of whats happening. In crimea it was troops at the airport one day with no flag on their uniform and all of a sudden these folks are showing up with guns and theres questions of are these russians . Is this Russian Intelligence Service and special forces . Having been on the ground, what is your answer to that 64,000 question . Its actually a lot more frightening whats happening in Eastern Ukraine now compared to what happened in crimea because it was regular russian forces. Thats pretty much confirmed that were operating in crimea. They may not have been wearing flags, but they had trucks with russian license plates on them and all of the equipment of the Russian Military and behaved like military units, very professionally. In Eastern Ukraine what we have is this ragtag army of god knows who. You dont know who theyre taking orders from and if theyre taking any orders at all and thats the scariest thing because they may not be answering to anybody. I met the bearded man that you showed in the video. Hes a russian citizen, but, you know, whether he was sent there by russia or whether he came of his own accord, thats an open question. Who are some of these men . Well, until we see their faces and i. D. Documents, we cant know for sure. And that just gives a lot of plausible deniability to russia and it means that theres no one to talk to when these kind of situations like mine take place. Are you going to go back . Id very much like to go back because we would like to continue covering the story. Weve been covering ukraine since the protests began in kiev in the winter, and the story is far from over. We need to follow it through so we can see how it plays out. For the love of god, please be careful when you go back and come back on my show. Thanks very much. Vice News Reporter simon ostrovsky. Theres new video from ukraine and more from simon posted on vicenews. Com. You should definitely check that out. Dont go away. [ female announcer ] the secret to luminous, shiny color . Innovative cc cream from nice n easy. Our advanced treatment helps keep highlights and lowlights shiny and luminous. Cc cream, find it in every box of nice n easy. The most natural shade of you. In every box of nice n easy. And im his mom at the dog park. The kids get trail mix, and heres what you get after a full day of chasing that cute little poodle from down the street. Mm hmm delicious milos kitchen chicken meatballs. They look homemade, which he likes almost as much as making new friends yes, ill call her. Aww, ladies man. Milos kitchen. Made in the usa with chicken or beef as the number one ingredient. The best treats come from the kitchen. Coming up, congressman Michael Grimm was indicted today on fraud charges. Before that happened he was famous for a couple of things. He was making headlines for a very rare kind of conversion. It turns out i was part of that conversion. Ill explain next. Cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moment is right. Cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. Side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. To avoid longterm injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30tablet trial. Time to take care of business with century links Global Broadband network and cloud infrastructure. We constantly evolve to meet your needs every day of the week. Were going to fight tooth and nail until i am fully exonerated. So let me be perfectly clear. I will not abandon my post or the wonderful people who entrusted me to represent them. Congressman, very simply, are you a crook . No. We are not going to address the charges at this time. He has the presumption of innocence and it will be handled in a court of law. Congressman Michael Grimm was defiant today after surrendering to fbi agents and being indicted on federal fraud charges for allegedly underreporting wages and payroll at a new york city restaurant called healthalicio ucht s that grimm ran before he entered congress. He was also accused of lying under oath when questioned which began by focusing on his campaign fundraising. Before the indictment, of course, Michael Grimm was most famous for this interaction with reporter michael scotta. Congressman Michael Grimm does not want to talk about some of the allegations concerning his campaign finances. We wanted to get him on camera on that but he as you saw refused to talk about that. Back to you. Let me clear, you do that to me again oddly enough, i have been spending a lot of time with Michael Grimm over the past year. A team of producers from the years of living dangerously and i followed grimms response to Hurricane Sandy and traced his trajectory on the issue of Climate Change and something amazing happened over the course of our time with him. Republican Michael Grimm went from being a Climate Change denialist, someone who rejected the overwhelming Scientific Consensus to coming around. Even more remarkable than his change of heart on Climate Change was the exchange i was able to have with him afterwards, which was by far hands down the most honest i have ever seen a sitting member of congress be about politics while the camera was rolling. Last time you and i spoke you said the jury was still out. Yes. On the climate science. Do you still feel that way . After speaking with bob english, it made me do my own research and i looked at some of the stuff that he sent over and my staff looked at the vast majority of respected Scientists Say that its conclusive, the evidence is clear. So i dont think the jury is out. The basic story of were putting carbon in the atmosphere, the planet is getting warmer. Thats going to make the sea levels rise. The basic story of that you pretty much agree with, right . Sure. Theres no question that the oceans have risen, right . And the Climate Change part is a real part of it. The problem that were going to have right now, theres no oxygen left in the room in washington right now for another big debate. Thats the reality. Between immigration, tax reform i dont disagree. But let me ask you its just not going to take front stage. But theres a study coming out, because this gets precisely to the point. If you take just the amount of Sea Level Rise and factor into what the sandy storm surge was, this study says youve got about 25 square miles of flooding that wouldnt have happened. So if in three years from now theres another one of these storms that takes out another 72,000 homes, its like at what point does this become the priority . Washington is not real life. You see youre talking the substance and the science. Right. And my point to you is irrelevant. Right, right. Irrelevant. You have to first get them to the table to say lets work together. So then whats your role in getting them to do that . If you told me theres too much other stuff going on in washington right now, we cant get sandy relief, you would say sorry, excuse me language, [ bleep ]. And im saying the people on the sidelines, there are going to be more storms and theyre going to be worse unless we get our act together. Can you sit down with fellow republicans and say, look, come to my district. We have water in places it shouldnt have been. Yes. But not while everyone is saying immigration, taxes and members of congress dont want to talk about anything else. And 20 years from now, you and i are going to have a conversation where we look back, i really believe this. And its like what do you what do you think about when you think about that conversation 20 years from now about where you were. Where your personal voice was of leadership. What im telling you is its much bigger than me. I dont think that humans in america, americans have the will to do it. But thats a terribly depressing statement. It may be, but its true. But we have the will to settle the frontier, we had the will to land on the moon. If you think my generation or the generation after me has that, i think youre living in fantasyland. They dont. They dont. I wonder how you are going to look back at yourself as a member of the United States congress if history unfolds in the way that i think the science says it does and makes these distinctions between the people that actually had the fortitude to stand up and say the unpopular thing and those who didnt. History judges those people incredibly harshly. Those who met the biggest challenge of their time and people who didnt. The big takeaway from that exchange is, well, pretty discouraging. This idea that even people who think we need to do something about Climate Change feels theres no appetite to do it. That the unfolding disaster just sits there, hovering over our heads like an eternally unchecked item on the global to do list. Well, theres a group of people who are doing a Pretty Amazing job of refusing to take later for an answer when it comes to Climate Change. Actress daryl hannah is one of those people. Im going to talk to her, next. [ male announcer ] staples has everything you need to get your clients attention. From brochures to business cards to banners. Everything. Except your clients attention. Thousands of products added every day to staples. Com, even bullhorns. How much . [ male announcer ] staples. Make more happen. Add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance. And well replace destroyed or stolen items with brandnew versions. We put members first. Join the nation. Nationwide is on your side does your mouth often feel dry . A dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. Thats why theres biotene. Available as an oral rinse, toothpaste, spray or gel, biotene can provide soothing relief, and it helps keep your mouth healthy, too. Remember, while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isnt. Biotene for people who suffer from dry mouth. A dry mouth isnt. woman this place has got really good chocolate shakes. growls man thats a good look for you. woman that was fun. man yeah. man let me help you out with the. woman . Oh no, i got it. man you sure . woman just pop the trunk. man vo i may not know where the road will lead, but. Im sure my subaru will get me there. announcer love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. Grossemisconduct. Ortho crime files. Disturbing the pantry. A house, under siege. Homeowner calls in the big guns. Say helto home defense max. With the onetouch continuousspray wand. Kills bugs inside. And prevents new ones for up to a year. Guaranteed. Nothing to see here people. Ortho home defense max. Get order. Get ortho®. Purina pro plan can help him drachieve it. Epic Classical Music stops music resumes music stops music resumes [announcer] purina pro plans bioavailable formulas deliver optimal nutrient absorption. [owner] come on. [announcer] purina pro plan. Nutrition that performs. Last week, we witnessed the implosion of onetime right wing hero cliven bundy. He was protesting the federal government for trying to charge him a heavily subsidized fee for letting his cows graze on land he didnt own, federal land. But there was another group of ranchers out protesting last week who got way, way less attention but who were attempting something far more honorable. They were trying to convince the government not to take the land they actually own away and allow a big old company to build a pipeline through it. The ranchers are part of a group called the cowboyindian alliance which gather to protest against the proposed keystone pipeline. Last week the u. S. State department delayed a decision on whether to approve the pipeline, likely until after the midterm elections. Standing with the protesters on the National Mall was actress, environmental activist, daryl hannah. She joins me now. Its great to have you here. Thank you very much. So i want you to start out by responding to what congressman grimm said in that interview which is basically, eh, what are you going to do . Theres lots of issues out there. People talk about this stuff, theres no will to tackle this. Well, theres no political will because of the Citizens United decision and the mccutcheon amendment which means the government is for corporations instead of which the people, which its supposed to be. But i think in terms of the public, the public has just been barraged by disinformation for all of these years, so i completely disagree. I think once the public gets informed, i mean we see it with the keystone issue right now. You see both the conservatives and liberals coming together and working together to work against this thing because they realize that this is a Foreign Company coming in to take advantage of our lands, our water, our soils, to get their product to market for private product so they can put it on the Global Market for the highest bidder. I like this distinction between political you know, political will on capitol hill and public will. Well, were living in a very different type of democracy than we think that we do, you know. We are now living in a democracy where it costs a billion dollars to run for president. Thats ludicrous. This is no longer the democracy that we all kind of, you know, believe in and agreed to. It is not it is no longer a government for the people by the people. It is now for the corporation by the corporation. And we need to take our power back, our Renewable Power back. There was this and the event in washington, this cowboyindian alliance, you have ranchers there and folks who are opposing it who own farmland in nebraska along with the aquifer there, you have First Nations stretching up into canada, their ancestral land that is being taken. What was the scene like there . It was actually it was beautiful. It was very serious. There was almost a solemn nature to it because i think because the ranchers and farmers who have been affected, there is a farm today, this very day thats being dragged into court by this Foreign Company, transcanada, in order to take his land on Eminent Domain on a project that hasnt even been approved. Its insane. And then you have First Nations communities up in canada who are experiencing the tar sands and having cancer rates at 400 times their historical rate. And you have the native American Communities who have already had their water compromised by past uranium mills and mines and now are looking at, you know, droughtridden lands that are also, you know, endangering their precious and very dwindling water that they have left. And so this is the demonstrations were almost like a prayer rather than like a sort of shouting type of an event. It was quite beautiful. To people that say you activists are making too much of this, theres all sorts of ways. Weve got to have a global solution, carbon tax, this one pipeline wont make or break things, what do you say to that . Well, weve moved toward extreme extraction methods. Deep water drilling, mountain top removal, fracking, tar sands. Theres even one permitted in utah now, you know. And if this pipeline goes through, theyre going to expand the tar sands five times so it will be the size of the state of florida. Were talking a strip mine the size of the state of florida. They use not only cars jeng chemicals. Theres so many elements that make this pipeline this key kind of turning point. Yes, a key turning point to say we need to switch our infrastructure to Renewable Energy and solve the climate without shifting our practices. That is all, the Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Thanks for joining us this hour. Happy monday. Example number one, football. This is tom udall, a democratic senator from the great state of new mexico. His dad, his father was secretary of the interior under jfk. John f. Kennedy won the presidency and the election in 1960. He went to washington and was sworn in as president in january, 1961. But the other big n