0 authority took orders to stop the traffic from someone in the governor's office, why he did so just because she sent an e-mail saying it was time to start traffic problems for ft. lee. all this was going on without the governor's knowledge, that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right nostarts right now. good evening, from new york. i'm chris hayes. two new jersey officials have been fired and the governor of that state is now in full-on defense mode. as the george washington bridge political retribution scandal continues to gain momentum. a total of four people have now lost their jobs as governor christie announced today in an epic press conference that he has fired his deputy chiefs of staff, bridget anne kelly, author of the now infamous e-mail reading "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee." one of governor christie's most trusted advisers, campaign >> and you can only imagine, as i was standing there in my bedroom with my ipad looking at that how incredibly sad and betrayed i felt. >> chris christie is, like, really, seriously legit sad. >> but i am a very sad person today. it just makes me sad. but i got to tell you the truth, i'm sad. i'm a sad guy standing here today. >> it was an effort to take some responsibility while showing he has nothing to hide and that he was as shocked about all of this as we were. but after an hour and a half of answers, i've got more questions than i did this morning. first, when did you find out about the e-mails? >> i was done with my workout yesterday morning and got a call from my communications director at about 8:50, 8:55 informing me of this story that had just broken on the "bergen record" website. >> later in a moment of unguarded honesty, christie admits something different. >> i haven't had a lot of sleep the last two nights, and i've been doing a lot of soul searching. i'm sick over this. >> so governor christie, was it two sleepless nights or one? >> if you're asking me over the last 48 ours or last 36 hours, i've done some soul searching, you bet i have. >> next, why do you still think that there was a traffic study? >> there may have been a traffic study. whether there was a traffic study or not, i don't know. >> to be clear, there was no traffic study. remember, this all started when your then-deputy chief of staff e-mailed "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee." to be clear, the executive director of the port authority testified that there was no such study. >> i'm not aware of any traffic study. i don't know why it was done. >> another port authority official said he has never participated in any study like this before. >> my exact words is this will not end well. >> that is because, once more, for those like the governor who are slow tos up, there was no traffic study. >> i don't know what makes a legitimate traffic study. i probably wouldn't know a traffic study if i tripped over it. >> you don't just create traffic to study it. >> this could go back to the nuance of what really constitutes a traffic study or not. >> only traffic study that happened was, what will happen to traffic in ft. lee when the governor's cronies punish the mayor? next, what was david samson's involvement? david samson is another christie appointee implicated in the e-mails who somehow escaped the ax. in an e-mail to bridget kelly, david wildsetin wrote the new york side gave ft. lee back all three lanes this morning. we're appropriately going nuts. samson helping us to retaliate. >> i'm convinced he had absolutely no knowledge of this. >> why would wildstein be lying about samson's involvement in a private e-mail he never thought would see the light of day? and why are so many people on your staff lying to you? >> what did i do wrong to have these folks think it was okay to lie to me? >> that's a good question. and finally, perhaps most importantly, if the people around you did this, what else have they been up to? >> how confident are you that this bullying tactic, this revenge, retribution tactic, did not go off -- >> i won't go out there and certify this unequivocally. >> joining me, steve kornacki. one-time employee of david wildstein. i should say that for disclosure's sake. okay. there are so many questions from the governor's performance today. here's the first one i want to start with. that e-mail, that first e-mail that gets the ball rolling, time for some traffic problems in ft. lee. let's say you believe the governor. he has no idea. wouldn't you be curious, like, how did that happen? how did that e-mail lead to this? what was the prologue to that whole situation. >> right. i think realistically the -- christie wants you to believe he was completely in the dark on everything until yesterday on the treadmill, whatever exactly it was, the gym, wherever it was he found out about this. okay. realistically speaking the best-case scenario for christie goes something like this. he figured it out in his head sometime over the last couple months. all the questions from the news media percolated as this story kind of grew. he's a relatively smart guy. it's hard to stare at this and not put two and two together, at least be suspicious. what he might have figured this version of events would go is he could run the clock out on this. one of the key dates on this was next tuesday when the current legislative session expires and when a subpoena authority of the current legislature expires with it -- it's a long sort of internal new jersey politics story. the incoming speaker of the state assembly in new jersey is a product of this alliance that chris christie has with democrats, pro-christie democrats. there was some thought the incoming speaker would not suspend the subpoena authority until this week. >> what's perfect, that gets to the core of this whole thing because the entire core of the christie appeal, right, of the christie mystique is i bring people together, i've got democrats for christie, christie-crats. i'm the only person who can make this state function because i've got these democrats and we can work together. while washington is broken. and what this does, it shows what the predicate was for that kind of cooperation which is that if you stepped out of line, you got traffic for four days in your town. >> right. the other thing is, like, we have -- one of the -- there are many unresolved questions from today. i think one of them is very much, was -- it's been reported this is about an endorsement, seeking an endorsement from a democratic mayor and denied the endorsement. i'm not convinced that's the case. >> let's bring in new jersey congressman, johnson also of ft. lee. >> part of my district. >> part of your district. >> yes. >> the one thing you got the mayor of ft. lee and governor basically agreeing on at this point is the early reporting which is the assumption that the mayor of ft. lee didn't endorse chris christie and this was retribution for that, both the mayor seems to not think that's the case and the governor seems to not think that's case. what the heck was he being punished for? >> you know, i don't know. i don't know. i just find it very hard to believe that miss kelly, the deputy chief of staff, working in the governor's shadow, in his office, in the front office, didn't -- just did this -- >> freelance. >> well, you know, they say it's a rogue operation, i think is the term was used. i can't believe she would do something without some type of direction from someone in that office. >> do you think the governor lied today? >> i think that what he said today, i have more questions. i mean, i think he had to know something about this. all right? i mean, it's his office, his inner circle. >> as someone who works in new jersey politics and elected official in that state, has to deal with the governor and his staff on various things. you've gotten the sense up until now that this guy is pretty checked out, staff is basically doing most things, bring him stuff to sign and that's it? >> the governor runs a very tight operation. very strict. very militaristic. i've had commissioners that when i request to see him, he'll have to -- >> restate that sentence. commissioners in what capacity? >> department heads. >> you want to sit down with a department head -- >> they have to go through him. >> so before a commissioner will meet with a member of the state legislature, to work out some issue, it's that -- something like that gets -- >> very tight operation. yes. yes. that's why i cannot believe that this young lady, miss kelly, who is the deputy chief of staff in the governor's office, in the front office would do this without some type of directions from someone. >> which brings us back to the other person fired today who was, i think, had much more authority, much closer to the governor. steve, you know the characters at issue here. bill stepien. how close was he to governor christie? >> bill stepien was his campaign manager in 2009. the interesting thing about what bill stepien was doing before he was the campaign manager and why i'd say it's possible this is about an endorsement, might be other factors we don't now about. stepien was his political enforcer in the state. there's a position in the governor's office, ethically, there's an ethical way to do this. his job was to look around the state and deal with the municipalities, mayors, deal with the councils. it's entirely plausible to me, that's by the way, a position bridget kelly moved into. she was probably in the reporting suggests. when i knew bridget kelly, she was chief of staff to a relatively sort of mild mannered assemblyman from bergen county. >> she's come a long way. >> i cannot reconcile the bridget kelly i knew from those days with the bridget kelly -- >> time for traffic in ft. lee? >> beyond that, there's commissioners at the port authority nominated by the governor and put in place by the senate. confirmed by the senate. these people didn't tell the governor that weinberg and i attended the meetings, complaining about the traffic issues in ft. lee, about these stoppages? >> no one told him. i mean -- >> november 13th, we're there. december 4th, we're there. loretta weinberg and i attended these meetings. complaining to them about this traffic -- this traffic tie-up, this traffic chaos in ft. lee, why did it exist? one of these folks picked up the phone and called the governor's office and said, hey, we had some legislators here. i just don't get it. >> do you think it is, knowing a bit about the players involved, is it plausible to you that no one's communicating this to christie at any point? >> in a way, it is, and in a way it speaks to the culture that's sort of created around this add administration. this administration, christie administration, relative to recent governorships in new jersey has been a lot more aggressive and a lot more hands-on when it comes to getting involved in local politics. >> yes. hear that everywhere. >> talk to republicans in new jersey privately because there's been, you know, one of the things, christie's popularity has made it difficult for people to speak up. talk to republicans in new jersey, not drinking the christie kool-aid every day, they'll tell you stories at granular, municipal levels saying something in the local press or taking action on the municipal council. hearing from somebody high up in his administration, hearing from the governor, himself. this is something that did not happen with jon corzine or jim mcgreevey. i respectfully assert my right to remain silent under the united states and new jersey constitutions. >> the first christie appointee to be called before a new jersey house committee clams up. more on that straight ahead. rin. she'd just grab the bounty select-a-size. one select-a-size sheet of bounty is 50% more absorbent than a full size sheet of the leading ordinary brand. use less, with bounty select-a-size. 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