Transcripts For MSNBCW All 20240705

The imminent indictment watch on the maralago documents. I dont think about it, all i know is this, everything i did was right. Tonight have got thoughts on trumps real motive for taking all that classified info. Then, the Winning Strategy for candidate desantis. Being the most anti vax person on the ballot . We can never allow warp speed to trump informed consent in this country ever again. Plus, president Bidens Oval Office address. Passing this Budget Agreement was critical. The states cannot have been higher. And the crazy story of why republicans in iowa have stripped the power from the State Auditor . All in starts right now. Good evening from new york im chris hayes. President joe biden just wrapped up a Primetime Address to the nation from the oval office touting the Debt Ceiling Deal that he brokered with speaker Kevin Mccarthy this week. A lot of attention has been focused on the swift passage of that bill in the house on wednesday, the senate late last night. Large bipartisan majorities. All thats been happening, Special Counsel jack smith has been barreling ahead with his investigation of the ex president , now the leading contender for the republican nomination in 2024. Earlier this week we learned that smith had obtained a key new piece of evidence in the case of Donald Trumps handling of classified documents. Hes now in possession of an Audio Recording in which trump acknowledges he held on to Classified Pentagon documents about a potential attack on iran. On that recording from july 2021 meeting at his bedminster, new jersey golf club. Trump began railing about his handpicked chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff general mark milley who was described in media counts at the time is having guarded against trumps strike in iran in the final days of his presidency newtowns reports the ex president began referencing a document he had with him saying it had been compiled by General Milley and was related to attacking iran. According to new reporting just out this afternoon, trumps attorneys have not found that classified document in question, even after receiving a subpoena specifically for earlier this year. So where is it now . We dont know. But i think this new information that we got yesterday, this recording and the context of the document and mark milley. It finally clarifies a key question, the question around Donald Trumps motive for holding on to these many classified documents after he left the white house. In a strictly legal sense the motive doesnt actually matter. In order to file criminal charges the Special Counsel just has to believe that a crime was committed. Its a shock if its Strong Enough to lead to a conviction but of course juries, and us the public, we do want to know why. Why would he do this. The question of why the ex president took these documents and then refused to give them back and apparently obstructed attempts to get them back, so far has not been clear. Theres been a few theories. So some people have suggested, floated this, not based on any evidence, just as a theory. That trump had a corrupt he wanted to sell the information he had taken to foreign interest. I have to say, that always struck me is pretty unlikely. I think that would be a more complicated highrisk play that donald trump is equipped to even attempt. Then theres another theory, a suggestion that he kept the documents because the guys just a paragraph who really likes souvenirs. And i have to say, thats been kind of my leading belief. It seems totally plausible, just given the state of his office in trump tower. This office is all you, and its a little bit junkie. Yeah, you know what, this guy just got a few weeks ago. This is from the marine corps, thats the chair for the apprentice that are used. Tom bradys super bowl helmet. This is mike tyson spell. This is vince mcmahon, from the World Wrestling federation, this is Shaquille Oneals shoe. Is that a real issue . He took enough of a game and handed it to me. Okay, so, i dont think thats a bit. Thats not a bit this is a guy who really likes knickknacks and memorabilia. And he likes to show them off to people. Do you remember he even stuck in empty classified folder that he had clearly taken from the presidency in a display case at the bar at trump tower. So keeping the dozens of classified documents that went to those could just be his president ial version of mike tyson memorabilia. Its possible. But again, i mean, this might be the reason but when you take a step back it is a lot of time and effort and legal bills for will amount to a bunch of souvenirs. Which brings us to why the new reporting the pentagon document trump talked about is to sow revealing. Almost kind of a light bulb moment in understanding this. As the New York Times mentioned in their reporting in the summer of 2021, there were several news stories about how general mark milley was working to prevent donald trump from attacking iran in the last month of his presidency this one from the new yorker explain that as chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff, really had been engaged in an alarmed effort to ensure that trump did not embark on a Military Conflict with iran on part of his quixotic Panic Campaign to overturn the results of the 2020 reelection, election and remain in power they fear that trump would insist on launching it launching a strike that would result in a full blown war. Trump hated that report and claimed that the document that he had, the classified document he had taken, according to reporting on the recording. That document, he says milley wrote, that would undermine the general story. How could donald trump have been working, how could milley have been working against attacking iran if he wrote the plan of how to do it. Now, again, to be clear, this is all misleading. The military has contingency plans for pretty much everything including a war with iran. Sources have also told multiple news outlets that milley did not write that report. But in Donald Trumps point of view, that document was his ammunition to settle his score with the general. That is the motive that really makes sense to me. That that he just plucked documents for souvenirs. But that he took them specifically as receipts. If he has documents in his possession he can wield the information they contain as leverage. The information in those classified documents is powerful. That is why the entire complicated, overly complicated system of classification exists. It is why the worlds of Intelligence Agencies exist. To extract information against the will of other states because that information is useful and it is powerful. Donald trump would want that secret information for saint reason the spine might want to. To use it to his advantage against his enemies. That motive fits perfectly within Donald Trumps character. I dont know if it is the motive but its the motive, its the first time a possible motive makes the whole Situation Snap into focus for me. And the recording about this one document may be the final piece of the puzzle falling into place in Special Counsel jack smiths investigation. Joining me now is Andrew Weissmann he served as the prosecutor on Special Counsel Robert Muellers investigation. Coast of the podcast, prosecuting donald trump, which is a fantastic way of keeping up with the engine out of the various investigations. Lets start in this mode of question. Earlier i said you dont have to establish a motive for someone to be convicted. But it does just kind of night you. I wonder how important think it is and how much any prosecutor would be giving to establish there are a couple things to think about. If you think about the murdaugh double murder trial. That is the fellow who was convicted of killing his son and wife. The jury didnt have a specific motive. There was a variety of different theories and yet there was a guilty verdict. It is of course possible to tell a jury you dont know and the jury still can find the elements of the crime. But i agree with you. Jurors like all of us want to know why. If you can have a motive it makes it harder to have a conviction. And what you said, i think its totally write that that is a very plausible motive. This is one more to date myself its a little bit like what they said it Saturday Night Live you can have multiple motives. And you could have different motives with respect to different documents. There could be being a paragraph, there could be narcissism, there could be hubris, there could be wielding it as leverage against your enemies. I would say on the financial component, the way havent been thinking about that this is all speculation. Its not that he was thinking of im going to sell this. But it makes him more valuable commodity. If you are trying to do something with saudi arabia or other Financial Institutions or countries. You know, you have this information in little bits and pieces of it could be useful in sort of a pay to pay play kind of way. As opposed to, im going to sell the document. All of those are possible motives. I suspect that jack smith doesnt have. Theres one for each document, but they are all sort of potential ways. I dont think we can put too much emphasis on motive. And i should be clear part of what is wild about this story is just the sheer number of documents. There are so many he took and then returned, and returned, and returned, it was like a vaudeville routine with a Clown Coughing Up Eggs or something. Every time theyre still more so to your point about there could be more motives its like, who knows. Why were there hundreds of documents, if im not mistaken. You were just part of a team that put together, what you are calling a Model Prosecution. That was very interesting, i read it today. Theres a bunch of people that will be familiar with it. Viewers of the show will be familiar with joyce goodman, dr. Perry one of the things you put out in this Model Prosecution memo which i think is key and weve gone back and forth around it. Its whether declassification or classification, whether this cockamamie theory of it even matters. Doesnt even touch what is being alleged here. I want you to talk about that a little bit because you write the memo. The defense based on declassification is unavailable for several reasons including that of the criminal statutes have turned on the Classification Status of the documents. So yeah, this has been talked about. I think its a little bit, it relates to what you said about motive. It is not necessary for many of the criminal charges that the government showed that the document was classified or not. By the way, if donald trump wanted to actually introduce it at trial like he said, i just thought of this and they were declassified. Somebody on his side is going to have to testify. Donald trump or somebody else. Frankly, if you are jacks mitt, you are sitting there going to be my guest you want to hop on the stand. Thats never going to happen because its going to be the greatest gift ever to the government. Its going to be hard for him to dispute that factually if he wants to claim that there was declassification. But getting to the point about is it legally necessary . Its not legally necessary for many of these charges in the same way that motive isnt legally necessary, but it can be very useful. And the reason i say that is because some of the charges, for instance, require the government to show that it is National Defense information. Information thats important to the national security. So if you have a classified document and an actual classified document that goes a long way to establish that element, although its not technically necessary. I actually think that the government is going to just go all in on this. I just dont think that justice is going to persevere as i said, it would be very hard for donald trump to mount that evidence at trial and to take the stand. Final question for you is about something that you have some experience with you worked for Robert Mueller who was appointed as Special Counsel under the Department Of Justice regulations that make that position possible. He very famously wrote a report, headed to the Attorney General who quite famously gave his own gloss on it which, many think was quite deceptive. In this case, how do you view that relationship between whatever determination jack smith makes and the next step in terms of does it go to Merrick Garland, would be garland to make that announcement, would be smith. How do you see that playing out given that you know this pretty well . Thats a great question. If donald trump appeals to Merrick Garland and appears from his letter that maybe what he was doing. Merrick garland ultimately is the Attorney General so he has oversight over jack smith who is legally considered whats termed a subordinate officer. Even though there is a Special Counsel. The reason it is constitutionalist because jack smith reports to the Attorney General, sorry to be so in the weeds. What that means is that the Attorney General has the power to overrule what it is jackson with recommends. Under the regulations which the Attorney General doesnt have to follow but ive mentioned he will. Theres an enormous deference to jack smiths recommendation and binding something that is really abhorrent. Hes going to go along with the. But i think hes going to leave it to jack smith to make any announcement, as it should be. Thats interesting, thats crucial, andrew weizmann, thank you very much. Coming up, ron desantis kicks up his 2024 campaign by going full antibiotics. The way they weaponized these covid vaxxes was a massive incursion into our freedoms. The republican partys deadly race for the bottom of next. O next ive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and bcomplex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. Try nervive. And, try nervive pain relieving rollon. cheering imagine youre doing something you love. Rsv could cut it short. 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They wanted to deny people the right to put food on their table if they didnt bend the knee and get a covid shot that they may not have wanted, and that many of them did not need. We can never allow warp speed to trump informed consent in this country ever again. Desantis can bring himself to say the name trump except to sort of smuggled in there at the end of that. He thinks that position is a winner. Hes touting his anti vax record in almost every speech. While that might be tactically enticing to distinguish himself from trump, i personally think its strategically disastrous from a political point of view. His competition think so too. One trump super pac just released an attack at pointing out desantis was all for vaccines before he was against them. Back to you regularly scheduled programming to bring you this Important Public Service announcement. My view is if you can get a vaccine, vaccines are effective, you are immune. If you are vaccinated, fully vaccinated, the chance of you getting seriously ill or dying from covid is effectively zero. The vaccines protect you, give activated. That team trump Attacking Desantis for being trot pro trump vaccine. Because ron desantis clearly thinks, now, that running as the unfettered antivaccine candidate is the way to go. But again, it seems like a truly disastrous position to hold him a general. Democratic strategist tim miller i should note, tim, you wrote about this. I should note that it isnt just, you can do the Vaccine Mandates that the sort of soft version of this but the other day someone was yelling at trump with Anti Vax Tackling at an event and the desantis people tweeted about how he didnt talk about how old people the vaccine has her. Much more than the mandates, the actual vaccine. You wrote this, as expected to Sanders Hits Trump from the anti vax right. But to the best things trump did, Operation Warp speed, theyre the first tax out the gate. Do you think he sticks with this . I do. I think desantis has made the calculation that the answer to my last question there is the they will stick with him no matter what because hes a better bet than trump. Desantis has decided he has no risk, at least in the primaries. No risk in the primary on the central right flank. Eventually people will line up behind him. Hes not worried about the tim scotts of the world. Then he can find issues where he can outflank trump on the maga right. And this is one of them. To that tweet that he said. I thought this was so telling. Trump, in that same speech when he got heckled about the set effects of the vaccine called the person that killed Ashli Babbitt a thug. And the Desantis Campaign does not defend the capitol to police that defended the capitol. They couldve said nothing about the trump speech, but instead they chose to attack him for defending the vaccine. I just think thats very telling about what they think their strategic players. I wont pretend to know about the primary. Marjorie, im curious what you think of this in the general. If you are going to spend 6 to 10 months running as the antivaccine candidate. Again, not just Vaccine Mandates, but the anti vax candidate which i think he is flirting with and sometimes endorsing. What does the polling say, what do you think about that as a general election issue . Well, its interesting. Because for a long time you had a lot of Republican Leaders wanting to tell people to forget about covid, ignore covid. Forget about it. But now they are encouraging their voters to really think about it in a way thats at odds with where they were a little while ago. If this works as a strategy in the general election you wouldve seen republicans more successful in 2022 around the country, there were lots of governors races, senate races, congressional races, local races where you had republicans trying to go back to the times and harken back to the times of School Closures and use that as something. Its different from the vaccine but, jason, it didnt work. Because now people are looking forward. As time has moved on to go back again i think its going to be hard. The polling we did shows most republicans say they have received the vaccine. About two thirds say they receive the vaccine. Its about 14 of the country better republicans who have not received the vaccine. Its not really enough to have a general election strategy. That doesnt mean that all those voters are going to be, base their vote on the. But its a sign that this is not a unifying message. The first point you make there i want to go back to. There is the specifics of the Vaccine Messaging which i think is actually substantively incredibly dangerous that weve unnecessarily lost hundreds of thousands of our fellow americans because of and i will never forgive the people that played a part in that to be totally honest. But theres also just this political question of being obsessed looking back. And theres think theres something, people on the right, particularly the most part of the base are very obsessed with 2020. They are obsessed with the george floyd protests. They are obsessed with the trump election. They are obsessed with the media and hunter biden and why they didnt, they are obsessed with the covid policies. It is like this fuel of rage and i think its driving a lot of Republican Base politics in a way that the rest of the country is like really trying out to think about anymore. Yeah, and it makes them seem kind of we are and obsessive to be continuing to talk about this. But i do think its true that its bottom up. I went to turning point usa, charlie kirk Group Conferences september. Exactly those issues you talked about. Covid, george floyd, woke, 2020 election fraud. Thats what was animating the attendees i talk to. Thats why politicians are talking about it. The Risk Desantis plays here its a big part of his argument, the soft maga voters is that he is more electable than trump. I think the more he floated this kind of stuff there is this unforeseen risk of him going far to the right in seeming weird, some out of touch and having those voters look at trump kind of like they looked at trump in cruise and they thought trump was the more mainstream one. And i think this is a risk that desantis plays. And theres one more thing and i think that is what has to do with the complexities of politics. People think about trump as sort of beating other one, everyone in that primary to liberate. He was actually to the left on a lot of things. Entitlement to social insurance, the iraq war, he seemed to support universal health care. He is Attacking Desantis from the left on Social Security and medicare and National Sales tax which was a big sort of rightwing plan, we are going to get rid of the income tax. It strikes me is thats actually pretty effective step stuff even in a republican primary, im curious to what you think the Polling Shows . It goes to show that politics is not always about just voting for a list of policy positions, especially when it comes to trump. People are voting for the vote for who they feel is fighting for them, who cares for them. Who would go out and fight for you wants to meet you, want to talk to you, understands, you get to. And a lot of republicans feel that way about trump. Its less about the whitney of policy positions. And that is made some of this very complicated both for democrats and republicans. Republicans say hey, conservatism means this, it doesnt mean spending on all these programs, democrats say republicans are all over the place. Margie omer antimalarial and you both have a great weekend. Still ahead, just days after negotiating a deal to prevent a Global Economic collapse joe bidens economy just delivered another big win. More on the president s victory lap, next. Lap, next. Chevy silverado factorylifted trucks. Where will they take you . With the capability of a 2inch lift. The versatility of the available multiflex tailgate. And the connection of a 13. 4 diagonal touchscreen. Chevy silverado. Taking adventure to a whole new level. Dove invited women who wanted their damaged hair trimmed. Yes, i need a trim. I just want to be able to cut the damage. We tried dove instead. So, still need that trim . Oh my gosh i am actually shocked i dont need a haircut. Dont trim daily damage. Stop it with dove. Mom hey cheap flight alert i am actually shocked i dont need a haircut. 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Cecily its the hub of the neighborhood. Grant in addition to academic services, we look at serving the whole family. Cecily no two Community Schools are alike. John many of our classes are designed around our own students cultures. Kenny its about working with the parents. David the educators, the parents, the students. Rafael we all come together to better meet the needs of our kids and our families. Jackie its been really powerful. Terry im excited to go to work every day. Narrator californias Community Schools reimagining public education. Unemployment is 3. 7 . More americans are working today than ever in the history of this country. And inflation has dropped ten straight months in a row. In this debate, i refused to put what was responsible for all this economic progress on the chopping block. The president just gave his first ever Oval Office Address to mark the Debt Ceiling Deal which is removed the most pressing and dangerous threat to the economy. He also touted the strength of the economy which really does seem to be defying expectations. Another job report showing the 29th straight month of job growth. Payrolls increased by 339,000 way back from 190,000 dow jones estimate. The economy has now added 13 million jobs under joe biden, more than any other president history. They remain real concerns about elevated inflation and a weird way the economy has been behaving ever since the pandemic. But for the first time in a long time it does feel like there is a path for what economists and others are calling a soft landing, instead of some kind of crash. Its great to have you on the program i want to start with the mcglynn but im going to ask you this question. A week ago, two days ago, the biggest possible exogenous threat to shake up the economy, makes things bad would be a catastrophe around the debt ceiling and a default. That is now been removed. What is keeping you up at night when you think about this economy . I think we should start with how strong of a position we are in right now. As you noted, 13 million jobs created in this presidency, Unemployment Rate is at a 50year low. Data looks good in terms of consumer spending, business investment. 480 Billion Dollars of private investment, in part because of the incentives that the president put in place in his first two years in office. So we are in a very strong position to weather whatever headwinds we may encounter. However, we couldnt have anticipated that russia invaded ukraine and all the disruptions that caused for the global economy. We couldnt have it anticipated delta and omicron in 2021 which caused real headwinds to the economy. And through all of that, this economy has powered through and its been the fastest recovering from a recession that weve had since world war ii. Its because of the president s commitment to rebuilding the economy from the bottom up in the middle out. Its about providing relief and support directly to lower income and middle income families, making sure that they have financial security. And when the American Consumer is strong the American Economy is strong. I feel quite confident about the position of the economy and where we are going to go over the next several months. I would argue that omicron or some variant of that was foreseeable. But obviously the sort of continued crises of covid, particularly that really bad hit had really delirious effects. As you list these off its almost like job, right. Theres a Supply Constraint coming out of covid and then theres this war on the european continent. The other one is weve had two of the Biggest Bank Failures in American History just a few months ago. Pretty close to each other, i guess we had three total that went down, wound up auto. There was real worry of like, okay, is this the kind of black swan event. This things been humming along, people call it a honey badger economy. Its been churning, its been managing to deal with all the shocks. There was concern that shock might be the thing to knock it off course. How confident are you that thats resolved . I think thanks to the intervention of our regulators we stemmed the bleeding there really quickly. They stepped in to make sure that all the depositors that those banks were made whole and had access to all their money. Immediately that was crucial to inventing broader run on banks as people got concerned about their deposits being available. We saw a little bit of choppiness in the markets in the days and weeks after the. Largely what we have seen is that Deposit Outflows have stabilized. People feel confident in the Banking System and they should. What we might see some ups and downs in the stock market in the months to come, fundamentally the Banking System is in really strong shape. And it actually continued to provide access to credit for Small Businesses and for potential homeowners at a level that is higher than a lot of people anticipated. Final question for you, adjacent to economics. Over theory im curious what you think. Pulling on the economy tends to be not great, a lot of wrong track numbers. If you look at the bottom 40 of wage earners they are doing well and they are doing better and seeing more tangible returns, passed inflation wage gains. Folks in my line of work, in the Media Industry for instance, things are pretty tough right now, you are seeing things in a lot of White Collar Professions liken software and things like that. Do you think that part of the economy, adjacent as it is to the people reporting on it and talking about the economy, having a rough patch is skewing the coverage or perception of it . Ill say this, if you look at surveys how people feel about their personal financial situation the numbers are actually really high. Higher than theyve been historically. But if you look at what people say about the state of the economy, it tends to be lower so what explains that destruction . It could be important theyre hearing a lot of doom and gloom on the news. One example that i like is that people you ergo were predicting that recession was imminent. What happened since that was that weve gained millions of jobs, the Unemployment Rate has dropped, inflation has come down. I do think that the News Environment plays a role in all of this. But ultimately if you look at the nuts and bolts of the economy, we really strong consumer spending, we have strong business investment. And remember, all of these investments that were put in place, the chips bill, the queen energy tax credits, Infrastructure Act theyre going to be getting the economy in years to come bring in jobs with them. In many instances the best is yet to come. If the plane lands and there is no crash and no recession, jay powell, president of the united states, economic team, everybody sort of gets to be Legends Forever thing very much. Still to come, there is exactly one democrat Still Holding statewide office in the state of iowa. Republicans just passed a law to strip away his power, hes going to join me right here on set to discuss how hes fighting back ahead. K ahead. Oh, i have a shellfish allergy. One prawn. Very good. Did i say Chicken Wrong . Tired of people not listening to what you want . Yeah. The more we understand you, the better we can help you. Thats what u. S. Bank is for. Moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. Despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. It disrupts my skin with rash. But now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. Rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. Its one pill, once a day. Many taking rinvoq saw clear or almostclear skin while some saw up to 100 clear skin. 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Age is just a number, and mines unlisted. Try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for Muscle Health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. Boost® high protein. Now available in cinnabon® bakeryinspired flavor. Learn more at boost. Com tv what are folks 60 and older up to these days . Getting inspired volunteering playing pickleba. the category of Essential Workers was created. Its fascinating to see just who was counted in that category because it didnt reflect things like Social Status or salary. Of course, people who made a fair amount of money like doctors were Essential Workers, but sober folks like food delivery drivers, Grocery Workers and there was this social realization that the kinds of work, that the function of our lives depend on is not necessarily the kind of work that gets celebrated or compensated. One of the clearest examples was care work, particularly, caring for senior citizens. Pandemic really revealed how people who work to Nursing Homes and Nursing Health aides are some of the most Essential Workers in the country. In fact, more than 10,000 people turned 65 every day. The work of caring for them continues to be poorly paid, poorly regulated and poorly resourced. On this weeks episode of my podcast why is this happening i spoke with a gene pool, president of the National Domestic workers alliance. We talk about the growing need for care work and policy to support it. Feeding a person is a very intimate act. And even, that isnt a category, i want to grasp this without resorting to spiritual terms. But theres something really deep and profound about the kind of work youre describing over and above it as a category and how it fits in peoples lives or how it fits in policy. As a subject of experience, i guess im getting at. Yeah, i mean i think its true that this work is so deeply personal, intimate and essential in a way that goes beyond how we define essential work. Its so fundamental to human life itself. And i mean from the time we are born into the time we die we rely upon the care of others. We somehow cast it as non productive labor. And we have a hard time even calling at labor. Because it is so essential and so emotional and fraught in many ways. It is actually the essential work of the human experience. Its a fascinating conversation, you can scan the qr could on your screen or find wides happening wherever you get your podcasts. Odcasts. To the bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still werent as clean as with tide. So were back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. Do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. Its got to be tide. wheezing asthma isnt pretty. Its the moment when you realize that a good day. Is about to become a bad one. 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Its nonhabit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. Our customers dont do what they do for likes or followers. Their path isnt for the casually curious. And thats what makes it matter the most when they find it. The exact thing that can change the world. Some say its what they were born to do. Its what they live to do. Trinet serves small and medium sized businesses. So they can do more of what matters. Its day after state as benefits. Payroll. Compliance. Trinet. People matter. Weve been reporting on this show weve seen republicans use any means necessary to ruthlessly stamp out even the possibility of a democratic challenge to authority. For example in North Carolina where republicans gerrymandered their way into a legislative supermajority and a 50 50ish swing state they then use that rigged legislature to override the veto of the states duly elected democratic governor to force a statewide abortion ban into law. In ohio, republicans are trying to hastily ram through a dead of august vote that would then make it harder for voters to protect Abortion Rights directly at the ballot box in the fall. Or in iowa, where State Republicans have reached a new low. Despite its Swing State Status a decade ago, but likely republicans are quite ascendant in iowa politics. All four of iowas congressional seats are now controlled by republicans. Republicans also control super majority in the Iowa State Senate and they are within striking distance of one of the state houses as well. Additionally, republicans control every statewide elected office in iowa except for one. State auditor rob sand is a democrat. Which is why, just yesterday, the states republican governor kim reynolds signed a bill, youll never guess what, stripping the auditor of many of his authorities as an elected official. In a statement after the signing, sam called legislation, quote, the worst pro Corruption Bill in iowa history. Robson joins me now. Thanks for having me. Before we get to the bill, i want to ask you a political question, whats your secret sauce. Oh. In the state, it does stick out, in a state that has trended republican. This is like baseball every year you are going to have a team with the great record and then youre also going to have a team with a mediocre record that lost a lot of close games. I think democrats are better than the record books. If you look at statewide races in iowa 48. 7 of iowans actually voted for at least three democrats for statewide office. There are still a lot of people in the state who will split their ticket. We had, lets see more people who put their ticket in iowa for democrats than any other competitive state in the entire country. I look at it and i say im not a unicorn, i actually think that iowa youve had some good breaks. Iowa has been a swing state traditionally. What does this bill now signed into law do, what does it mean for your office . Its a great question. Bottom line is it makes it so that state agencies, as long as the governor agrees can hide documents from the governors office. I feel like i should apologize for laughing but ive been dealing with this for so long and it is comical. Its comically corrupt. So what they can do is instead of us going to courts, and thats what i think is the really interesting wrinkle here. This isnt just an attack on a democrat, its an attack on the independent court system in iowa because they have removed, from the Courts Jurisdiction the ability to decide whether or not the office should get a document, the doctors office. They took that ability away from the court. Not every state has a State Auditor but whats your role previous legislation . Easiest way to describe it is taxpayers watchdog. We do financial audits, Public Corruption Investigations which fits great with my background. You did that lottery case . Yes, uncovered the largest Lottery Scheme in American History. All right. And then we also do efficiency promotion. Thats the three things we focus on, thats what the office has traditionally done. This is not some newfangled innovation in iowa . No. The office is a constitutional office. It has been here as long as iowa has existed the only real difference is, in my first time we set a record for how much waste fraud abuse was uncovered. I think some people didnt like that. So they got together and passed legislation, i think i saw basically we had six House Republicans who voted against it. I want to say that because thats important, its tough to stand up against that party these days. They expect exacting following. So they pass this thing so now if you want documents from an agency, you cant go to court to get them if they deny you . Right. Instead we go to a threeperson arbitration which has one person from the agency, one person from our office, and the second person is appointed by the governor. This is like the amount of process you get as like an employee its not real courts. Its like, okay, i guess. You seem like a very sort of glass is always half full individual. I try to be. Its hard. I can hear it, the voters of iowa probably appreciate that. To me it looks like a blatantly partisan and cynical move. Yep. Theres two things, one substantively we covered waste fraud abuse and didnt like that it also seems like theres one democrat elected, we want to give that guy any power. I think thats undeniably part of it. I think the really zoom out Bigger Picture is theres a handful of people who control legislation in the state of iowa. This little group of insiders doesnt want someone in the audio Auditors Office whos actually really serious about doing the job. Its easy for the rest of the party to go along with something corrupt because im on the other side, right do you want that guy having the power to take documents from the Attorney Generals Office . So they can get their not all but most of their legislators to go along with it because i have a blue shirt on instead of a redshirt. Wisconsin had tried to do this with their a. G. , there was a certain kind of, josh kaul the a. G. In wisconsin there were some attempts for removing certain powers he had hes a democrat elected statewide. Do you think this states with the job . To give you lose than they have a Snap Back Bill where they say like, guess what, the auditor now has his power back. Yeah, probably. I dont know if they would even, i think they have so much trust in whoever that little group of insiders would get into this office if i were not ins in it, at the end of the day it would they would make it harder to find ways for dubious because they dont want accountability. Because i happen to be a democrat its easier to get the rest of the legislature to go along with it. I will stay out of a rub stand. This is a story i really appreciate you coming to talk to us tonight. That is all in for the week, alex wagner tonight starts right now, forgive me alex. W, forgive me alex at some point decide on what is happening at the state level. Couldnt agree more. And what is happening in iowa. Theyre like, no, dude, no more audits, democrats dont get to do audits, get out of here. Its unbelievable. Thats a great story, chris. Great weekend