and the co-host of the sisters in law podcast. also with me is a little bit paul, holtzman, the former united states congresswoman from new york who sat on the house judiciary committee when the panel voted to impeach richard nixon in 1974. these two women have a great deal of experience when making these comparisons. good morning to both of you. thank you for being with us. jail, i don't know what you're wearing in terms of opinion today, but earlier this week, you are wearing a pin of toast. because you felt that, as a result of this donald trump, he is toast. so, you think the charges are good, that this will possibly result in a conviction. does that then address the pardon issue? what do you think about that? . >> well, let me say i thought he was toast before i even saw the indictment, which only confirms my original judgment. it is a very strong case, very well laid out in the indictment. in terms of pardon, it is, as you've said in your last segment, undecided.