you're talking about five guys with a software package and could bring a level of national threat to another nation. so we like to think that we're going to be able to negotiate between nations to get this sorted but unfortunately this is really just the whims of a few people somewhere that are going to be the threat going on. >> and how -- how much power does the united states or the united states in concert with private enterprise have to fight this. it strikes me, you understand better than i do, there must be some say of tracing where the money goes or where the threat email or malicious code comes from. is that true? >> there are ways to do it sometimes. but those hackers are getting better and better and better and with the vpn services and the redirection and misdirection you could do to cover your tracks, it is not that easy to find. think the best the biden administration could hope for on