mcgee from the washington office and senior editor of the atlantic former new york governor eliot spitzer. if you're watching at home, you are one of the best stylists on the entire internet. you're doing it wrong if you're not reading him. i want to talk about the outrageous development that came out of oakland this week which stunned me. this happened on tuesday night. scott olson who is a 24-year-old veteran of the iraq war was in the plaza. he was one of about 1,000 occupy oakland protesters gathered in the square. he served two tours. received seven medals. he had a job. and he was active in veterans for peace and iraq veterans against the war which is an activist group. and police were cracking down on the occupation in oakland. and clearing the square. and they used tear gas to clear the crowd. in the course of the police action -- the images of the tear gas were shock. they did not look like something that happens in the united states of america. olson was critically wounded. he suffered a fractured skull. brain swelling after being hit what witnesses said was a police projectiles. after protesters trigd to help olson. this is what happened. i want to replay that just to people understand because it's confusing. take a look at it again. you'll see a police officer tossing something into a crowd of people who have crowded around olson to offer medical assistance to a wounded man on the ground. group carries around scott olson, already fallen and the police lob some sort of projectile into the crowd. here's olson being rushed from the scene to the hospital where he remains to this day. oakland says it is investigating what happened. occupy oakland has called for a general strike in the city on wednesday. protests in other cities have gotten more intense. there were evictions in san diego. at last downtown 2826 have been arrested in protests. mayors in boston, los angeles and chicago say protesters cannot stay on public property indefinitely. what happened to scott olson prompted vigils from los angeles to new york to london and even this thursday kcairo's tahrir square. that's remarkable images. that's where things stand. i want to get your take -- i was in bed on tuesday night with my ipad watching the twitter reaction to who was going on in oakland. my instinct was maybe people are hysterical what's going on. i went to the computer and looked at the video that was posted and it was disturbing to see this in a major american city. what were you thinking when you saw this, heather? >> exactly the same. i try not to have that reaction it shouldn't happen in america, right, because in fact neither should the kind of latin america type of inecaught with a or police brutality that happens with alarming regularity in communities of color. then you see the video and particularly the large scale of it. you know, thousands of protesters in the streets and then a really military style intervention on the citizens of this citizen's residence of a community that police are supposed to be serving and protecting. to do what? combat gang violence. combat a crime ring? into a peaceful protest was broken up for what looked like to be fatal mass violence. >> what was interesting about that, i think maybe it's not an easy separation between what is a major crime ring and the tactics we take to break up that crime ring and the same sort of tactics we employ to break up a peaceful protest. we accepted a certain level of militarization in our cops for a long time. this is a long train ride of this. i was totally unsurprised. it's shocking to see it on video. the fact of the matter is when we've accepted a level of violence, state sanctioned violence from police for a long time to expect that it won't then be employed against demonstrators is expecting too much. >> it's true. the thing i worry about or think about in terms of the context of the occupy movement is that there's these two planes and i was getting it into this with people. on one it's a protest of inequality. fundamentally we're the 99%. on the other level what's happened with it is that at every point of police, you know, repression, essentially or overreaction or police violence, the pepper spring incident, the corralling 700 people on the brooklyn bridge that happened in new york that produced a spark. then you worry a little bit about the movement becoming about the police as opposed to the underlying concern and i kind of -- at the same time, though, this, these clashes with the police are illuminating something about the nature of where we are as a nation in terms of how we feel about the first amendment. >> right. >> also the relationship, at a fundamental level something that unites the tea party, occupy wall street, police brutality movement, the anti-police brutality movement, there's something about the individual's relationship to the state and what our government can, is willing to do for us, how human they see us, and so i think there's something there. i think it makes a lot of sense that we would be moving into this issue of police brutality. frankly i think it's great because it helps to diversify the causes of the movement for the white protesters in new york to be treated that way by police was an eye-opening experience, the first time they had felt the police were sort of not there to protect them but were criminalizing them for every day behavior like the 800 stop and frisks that happen every year, the majority of whom are young people of color. >> but the problem, right, is it was just five months ago when the biggest issue for progressives was stopping crack down the public sector unions including the police and protecting police pensions and police benefits and police as part of the 99% were being screwed by the bureaucrats. whose side are the police on? >> you know, i don't want to be too conspiratorial about this. this can become about police brutality as opposed to income in equality. not to bang too hard on this but african-americans have long known that there was some relationship between how much wealth you had and the police's attitude towards you. so these might be closer related than we might think. >> there's something that civil disobedience when it's doing it right provokes reactions from the status quo that shock people because it demonstrates some deep truth about the nature of the status quo, about the nature of who is defending what. in oakland to give a little update olson has improved. mayor quan was flying back from washington, d.c. when this whole thing went down. it's become a scandal in oakland. people have seen that video. she had to issue this press release that used the term 99% about 99 times. she expressed her solidarity. we're seeing the backlash from the reaction of the police. maybe we're all kind of getting education a little bit about what's going on with law and order in this country. my story of the week is up next. it's new! ahhh-ahh-ahh! it's nice 'n easy colorblend foam! permanent color with tones and highlights. now in a delightful foam. just three shakes, foam it, love it! it's foamtastic! new nice 'n easy colorblend foam. your right color. whoa. new nice 'n easy colorblend foam. whoa. how do you top great vacations? whoa. getting twice the points on great vacations. whoa! use chase sapphire preferred and now get two times the points on travel, and two times the points on dining and no foreign transaction fees. whoa! chase sapphire preferred. a card of a different color. apply now at chasesapphire.com/preferred she's supporting breast cancer programs for her neighbour's tennis instructor's daughter's 1st grade teacher who's also her mom. help fund breast cancer programs in your community. redeem your lids today [ horn honks ] ♪ oh, those were the best of days ♪ ♪ i still feel the summer rays ♪ that graced our backs as we went down the lane ♪ [ horn honks ] [ male announcer ] when your car is more than just a car to you, the right insurance matters. are you getting the coverage options you need and the discounts you deserve? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage or visit travelers.com. my story of the week, we revisit the fictional utopia previously featured in a return to inequalistan. you know the guy behind woody allen is hammering about marshall and then this happens. >> it's the influence of television, marshall is in terms of being a high, high intensity, you understand, a hot medium. what do you when you get stuck in a movie line with a guy like this behind you. >> why can't i give you my opinion. it's a free country. >> do you have to do it so loud. you don't know anything about marshall's work. >> happen to teach a class at columbia called tv, media and culture. i think my insight have a great deal of validity. >> that's funny because i happen to have him right here. so here. come over here a second. >> heard what you were saying. you know nothing of my work. you say my whole fallacy is wrong. >> if life were only like. >> indead. i love that scene. this week we had kind of the wonk version of that scene because for over a month, right, occupy wall street movement across the country has been growing and occupying the nation's attention. we are the 99%. there are no concrete demands or agenda the one complaint, the central complaint is clear the top 1% managed to rig the game in their favor and capture a shocking percentage of the nation's total wealth. then amidst dismissal from the administration and attacks from the conservatives aimed at the drum circling hippies comes a new report from the congressional budget office that says to wall street critics you know nothing of my work. cbo looked at trends before taxes and transfers just based on what people earned before government takes out taxes and begins cutting social security checks and the like and they found something shocking. in the time period they studied, the top 1% were the only group that increased their share of the nation income. the only group. you have massively expanding inequality in income with the 1% able to eat a larger and larger part of the national pie and here's what is even more damning. as pretax inequality is increasing the government is making our tax system less progressive. at the same time the top 1% is getting more and more of the national income we're taxing them less and less. as the cbo puts it in their understated way the taxes on household income was smaller in 2007 than it had been in 1979. the result is this chart from the cbo study. this chart shows the distribution of income growth after the government has gone in and done its redistributing. what do we say? the shape of the graph is still radically unequal. our tax system has taken the unequality problem and made it worse. it's so inequal it looks like the disruption of unequalistan. where one single jheroic job secretor -- they have a flat tax which means the vastly unequal distribution of income is preserved entirely in its pristine state. lo and behold this is what the republican primary candidates are rallying around. herman cain has unveiled his famous 9-9-9 tax plan which will reduce the tax burden of someone earning a million dollars merely by half. rick perry would allow millionaires to opt into a 20% flat rate and would also be kind enough to end taxes on their estates, dividends and capital gains. in other words, faced with growing inequality and a government that's doing less and less to rectify the situation, with thousands in the treats across the country decrying this state of affairs the gop response has been to advocate a set of radical tax proposals that would make the problem much, much worse, proposals that would funnel even greater shares of the national income in to the bank accounts of the 1%. in almost no other area of policy would making the problem worse count as a proposed solution. think about a social problem like drunk driving. imagine we were to learn that over several decade period drunk driving fatalities had increased dramatically. also during the same time the government has been passing all kind of foils make things worse, repealing open container laws, lowering the drinking age to 11 and allowing kegs to be installed at gas stations. and one major party's response is going to mandate automakers install a new bar in every new car made in america. if i want sounds preposterous, it is. even this republican party would be dead in the water if they made such proposals. that's because we have a shared political and social consensus that drunk driving is a problem. and it wasn't always that way. in fact it took a long time for society to come to this understanding. now there's no going back. remarkably, despite the fact that rising inequality is the signature trend in american economy over the last three decades it's only now that our political culture is even discussing it. we will know occupy wall street is working when even republicans have to start talking about redistribution. the man who is wall street's public enemy number one long before occupy wall street, eliot spitzer joins us next. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles on every purchase, every day. that's setting the bar pretty high. owning my own business has never been more rewarding. coming through! 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[ male announcer ] take the fixodent 12 hour hold challenge. fixodent denture adhesive challenges you to a 12 hour hold test. ♪ thanks to its time-released formula, you apply fixodent once, and it holds all day. ♪ take the fixodent 12 hour hold challenge. guaranteed, or your money back. ♪ and for guaranteed freshness, try fixodent cleanser plus scope ingredients. joining us here at the table now we have former new york governor eliot spitzer who as attorney general made more than his share of enemies on wall street. occupy wall street movement has succeeded in calling people's attention to this sort of inequality we were just talking about. i want to ask you first off the bat, i like to make news at 7:20 here in the morning. first off, the guy who has your old job, andrew cuomo. that old job. there were two. eric snyderman, we were a big fan -- >> eric is doing a spectacular job as ag, especially on the wall street stuff and the mortgage issue in particular. >> andrew cuomo, new york like all the states have intense fiscal problems. they are trying to close the gap. there's strong pressure for a millionaire's tax. new york is an unequal place. new york city one of the most inequal place in the country. millionaire's tax is going over very well. cuomo is in opposition to it. he was explaining his opposition. he says my father was governor of the state. he was against the death penalty. everyone in the state wanted the death penalty. everyone. it was near 80%. he said he was governor of the state. he wasn't going to sign it. the governor isn't a big poll taking a main the fact that everyone wants it that doesn't mean all that much. what do you think of his opposition to millionaire's tax and him comparing the moral righteousness of standing up for people on death true millionaires. >> how can you fathom an equestion valence on those two issues. in terms of new york state they are talking about extending tax ballisticses to weightier folks that should have been extended. andrew cuomo is wrong about this. the consequence of his opposition to the sort of ration enamel tax policies that should be put in place we're caught our investments in education, health care, infrastructure, the very sort of investments we need to fund the continued growth of new york city and the rest of the state. he's also wrong because he was trying to evict the wall street folks from park in albany. it would have happened but for fact that the mayor of albany pushed back and said we won't do this. and the district attorney said we won't prosecute them. i don't know what political calculus is taking him to this point and i know that from conversations i've had with many people close to him. he's dead wrong. it's simply -- i'm amazed at it. >> isn't the political calculus, every politician that comes on the show, i literally ask them the same question. look you're a politician. you have to go hat in hand to these millionaires. let's not fool around. this is what you have to do. doesn't that play some role. >> you shouldn't forget that one of the biggest most vocal supporters of andrew cuomo was ken mcgone. >> a man from your past. >> understand what that line. >> explain who so. >> he was one of the individuals who supported chris christie and a vocal support of that political world view and support dick grasso. they paid him $1450 million and when andrew cuomo was attorney general that case didn't turn out the right way. i won't get into the legal case itself. put that aside andrew is wrong about what he's doing on tax policy and wrong to try to evict the occupy wall street people from the state park and rightly being criticized a fair bit for both of those decisions. >> in the beginning of occupy wall street it was, i think there was a sense i even had the sense it was some kids in sleeping bags and this wasn't much and then it has and the on this momentum and someone like yourself, someone who has been quite vocal about the crimes on wall street. >> good thing? >> come on, mr. spitzer. you're a former governor and part of the establishment on a certain level. i think what happened that's interesting is that you came out and said look i support what they are talking about. i think this is a good thing. >> i've been supportive of it from almost as early as i saw what was going on. not because, i've made this very clear, there are fringe groups attracted to every social movement. you say we wish they weren't there. they are to be disregarded and pushed to the side. the core of what occupy wall street has done is remarkable. they've succeeded in a way that no politician has succeed. no editorial board. no columnist. no member of the media h succeeded. they refocused the entire debate. they managed to say to us as a nation this is about equality. this is about this tension between the 1% and the middle class or the 1% and the 99, however you want to quantify it. look at the presentation you just did. spectacular. i loved it. i'm a geeky sort of guy. what they've done is said these numbers are real, they are tangible and now there are events saying every night what's happening. >> i want to get your reaction to this. because you're on the record saying i support what they are talking about, you feature e prominently in this ad. because it's a threat there's a predictable backlash. the backlash came from a very surprising angle. i want to play the ad from people. it's from the emergency committee for israel, i believe. eci. associated with bill crystal and a bunch of those folks attacking occupy wall street for what it alleges is anti-semitic streak. here's the ad. >> political leaders are praising occupy wall street. >> doou support them? >> i support the message. >> i think it expresses the frustrations of the american people. >> i'm with them emotionally, in my bones i know they are right. >> what is happening at the occupy wall street protests? >> ethnic jews population in this country they have a firm grip on america's media, finances. >> hate is not an american value. >> all right. so there's the ad. what was your reaction to that ad? >> first i was mazed and shocked that anybody with the staff of bill crystal and he's a prominent individual we can disagree with him all the time but he's a prominent individual he would try to equate occupy wall street with hate and anti-semitism. it's mislogic, why is he doing this? as i thought about it i said well because those who can't respond to the under lying issue change the topic. it's the oldest game in the book. what's hateful is their ad because their ad tries to conflate two things that have nothing to do with each other. occupy wall street is genuine. you can be bill crystal on social issues or president obama these are serious issues that have to be discussed. for him, bill crystal to say this is about hate is demagogue, it's cheap. it's offensive. and the cheapest form of propaganda. >> i agree with that largely and i want to give some props to an unlikely source which is the glenn beck website the blaze. to their great credit they did a due diligence to report this out. they found the people in the video. there are parts of the video online which is very disturbing. well it turns out one of them was featured, is a man who is a homeless man who calls himself jesus, the other the guy that plays the starring role is somebody known as motion man. this is just a clip. so we're clear where we stand with him who is now the star. do we have the lotion man? >> always drinking red bull. i got wings. wings. i got wings. >> so this, indeed -- in the imagination of bill crystal on the right -- >> let me add one other thing because i think it's important for us not to do the same thing to the tea party that he bill crystal is trying to do to occupy wall street. i don't want to speak for anybody else but when tea party had fringe groups around it that they themselves were spewing hate let's not call the tea party racist, there's many good people that care. we may disagree, just as occupy wall street attracts fringe groups so does the tea party. >> i really appreciate the fair mindedness you're generating here. the fact is tea party within their leadership who are actually saying i won't go so far to say are racist things but it's pretty disturbing to african-americans. when you have a congressman saying let's bring back the poll tax. >> i agree. even there the better attack and the more substantive attack of the tea party was on the merits. i'm not saying the two situations are analogous. we should recognize social moments. grassroots activism we see here attracts crazy people. >> when you have an open square. this was also used -- this is an old trick in the playbook because back, i remember during the marches against the iraq war which proved to be the signature failure of american foreign policy in 30 who iv years, the bill crystals of the world were deriding the protesters for being hippies and for their connection to a stalinist group. that wasn't the point. the point is that the iraq war was a bad idea. >> we have to make sure we don't fall into their trap. they are trying to change the topic. they want us to equate wall street and all those other groups, we have to keep a single minded focus, occupy wall street has gotten. >> bar charts. just bar charts. >> we'll be joined by the chairman and editor and chief of u. 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[ male announcer ] in here, you're never away from home. it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. at&t. your plan by cutting the top rate 20% eliminating dividends, capital gains, interest income taxes would provide a huge tax cut for wealthy people in this country. for those at the top it is hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars for them. >> i don't care about that. what i care is about them having the dollars to invest in their companies to go out and maybe start a business because they got the confidence again that they actually get to keep more of what they work for. >> that was rick perry talking about his tax plan. joining us at the table this morning i want to welcome mort zuckerman. publisher of "new york daily news", a paper i grew up here. mort, thank you for being here. we were just having a conversation here about inequality. it's the signature issue on the table right now because of occupy wall street largely and you saw rick perry's response to it, a question from john harwood about his tax effects making inequality worse. from where you sit is inequality a problem? >> sure it's a problem. the problem is on both sides. i think the tax code is very counter productive to where this economy should be going and we have to fine some way to shall we say redistribute the economic benefits of this society in a better way than we're doing now. in my judgment the best way is to reform the tax code to eliminate all the special privilege, all the special benefits given to a lot of groups who don't deserve it and simplify all the tax levels for everybody, including for the business community. that was a core part of the simpson-bowles commission and everybody knows that's the right thing to do and we should do it and do it soon. if we keep it revenue neutral but the most stimulative thing we can do for the economy. >> mort, i could not agree with you more. simplify. you can lower some of the marginal rates. here's the interesting thing. in bowles-simpson, they said tax capital gains and dividends the same way you tax ordinary income. what rick perry is saying don't tax them at all which is a fundamental -- >> i'm not trying to justify it. >> this is sort of one, an ideological choice and be interesting to see what people thought the actual impact of what rick perry proposes because i don't think it would stimulate more investment. >> it probably would stimulate some investment. that's not tissue. the issue is not just investment it's also demand. demand side of the economy is critical. you lower taxes across the board for the consumers by eliminating all these special benefits you have the chance for the single most -- you know how many hours this country spend and how much money we spend just on preparing taxes. 8 billion hours. >> we all agree simplification is where we need to go. it's a demand crisis. >> i want to get back to the central issue of, because there's two sides of this inequality. there's the fact that our tax code isn't doing a very good job of mitigating the effects of inequality. before we get to tax and transfers, the signature fact of the american political economy in the last 30 years is the fact that the 1% has seen this massive expansion of what percentage of the national income it captures and how do you understand that phenomenon? what is going on there? because i think the way that occupy wall street explains it is that the game success rigged essentially by those folks. >> i don't think the game is being rigged. we've had a massive change in technology, okay. that technology has made it possible for us to lose, this is bad news, 6 to 7 million blue collar jobs in the first couple decade of this century. this is an enormously important thing. since this administration has come in to power we have not created a single full time employment job. we've lost millions and millions of jobs overseas. the second thing is the technology has changed the way we do things and so people who understand the technology will end up doing better than the other. >> so you can, and often people do blame globalization, technological change, the information age, two important foist layer on to that and i was proud of the cbo report did this. a, even with those trends a functioning society that actually wanted to mitigate those forces would have done certain things. not withdrawn so much support for higher education. would have joined the industrialized world in doing early childhood education and care. we've pulled back on what we know would mitigate those trend. we've had a major power shift in this country. a major power shift in our democracy and a major power shift in the terms of organized labor in corporations. >> you're right. if you accept a premise 2 billion additional people joining the workforce, as mort points out we've seen a technological leap forward. workers are more productive but workers have not shared in the uptick because of the overseas competition so the question then is how do you respond. you got to invest in them and redraw the lines. >> i think it's more than the 2 billion workers pap lot has to do with the financialization of the economy. i want to talk more about that right after this. 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[ male announcer ] introducing spark the small business credit cards from capital one. get more by choosing unlimited double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? this guy's amazing. we are back here on an early saturday morning. i want to show -- we're talking about inequality and its sources and how we deal with it. i want to show this set of graphs from some behavioral economists. they said i want you to tell us what the distribution of income should be. this is what people estimate the distribution is between the bottom 80 and top 20. the to 7 getting over 50%. this is what they would like to see. this is their ideal. far, far more equal society than what they estimate and what the reality is, is that it's far less equal than even people realize. right. so people have a conception of the distribution in this country that doesn't fully integrate how unequal society is and even from that model they want something more equal. we don't see the political system respond to that desire. mort, we were just talking during the break about the dysfunctionality of the system. there's a story of dysfunctionality of the political process advocated by people of my ideological ilk. it subverts any kind of populace message about taxing millionaires or financial transaction tax. do you think that's part of the dysfunction in the system? >> i think it is part of it. look, i'll give you another part of it. that's the ability of governors in every state to, shall we say, draw the congressional lines for each congressional district that's to maximize which ones go to the party that they belong to. then you have a situation where the extremists on both parties can say we'll primary you if you don't stand in the most ideological place in the party. there's all kind of ropes why this goes. to my mind, anyhow, the only way our system has ever worked in an effective way, as i said, we've said this before is through presidential leadership and that's something which has not worked and until we get that working we're going to be in the worse kind above signatures, in my judgment. >> how is presidential leadership address a filibuster threat? >> what's the causal mechanism. >> i'll give you and example. in 1983 tip o'neill and president reagan worked out an agreement. they did -- social security, by the way which we have adjusted 40 times since it was originally passed in 1940 so it can be done with the right kind of leadership. i'll give you and example. >> why don't he talk about john boehner. >> because it's the president that leads this country. i'm sorry to say that. that's the way it works. the president did not meet with mitch mcconnell the leader of the senate for the first 18 months of his presidency. that was a front page story on the "new york times". unless you develop those kinds of personal relations you can't be an effective leader. >> to go back and look at the moment in which barack obama wanted to have a ronald reagan/tip o'neill moment. he said it. he walked up to john boehner here's a $4 trillion plan. let's go big. they walked away because unlike reagan who okay a deficit reduction deal of 2-1 spending cuts, he had 1-1 in the first one, we've seen every republican on stage at the debate saying they would walkway from a plan that would be 10-1. can you negotiate if one side says absolutely 1,000% the signature part of what you want to do we do not accept as a pre-condition of negotiations. >> not that i want to disagree with you at this time of day because it's very difficult to do that. have enough caffeine i system, as i can tell. >> let me give you another example. on thursday night in the major debt ceiling crisis, okay, there was a tentative agreement between john boehner, representing the republicans, and the president, to take $800 billion out of the tax code for all special privileges and use that to simplify the tax code. that was the preliminary agreement. the next morning the president comes into the meeting and says, i want another $40 0 billion at which point the deal craters. now, you could pick these things apart. all i can say to you is there has not been the kind of buildup of mutual trust or -- >> i agree with much of what you're saying but i think you're pointing blame exclusively at two sets of people. one, the president. second, governors. oddly, jerry mannedering isn't worth getting into. it's the legislators who care more than governors. the legislators care about preserving themselves against primary challenges. put that aside but that is critical because that is what moves parties this way rather than toward the center. >> right. >> when it comes to the president, i'm with chris on this. i think the president has made a series of missteps along the way. but having said that, you cannot negotiate with a party that simply refuses to negotiate. the republican party has been moving more and more into the grasp of a tea party that is so rigid and that has managed to scare the john boehners of the world. john boehner would have made a deal. i think mitch mcconnell would have made a deal. the fringe of the republican party has pushed barack obaobam willing to deal where he can't even defend a deal. >> the tea party voters, the base, majority want to raise taxes on the wealthy. >> that's right. >> so, it's -- it's not actually the tea party. it's -- this is an important point. >> it is an important point. >> even the republican politicians, because of their dependence on grover norquist, the straitjacket they're put in by their donors and the fox news, is actually out of step with not only the american people but -- >> we're going to pick this up actually right after this commercial break. we have to go to break. mort, i'll get your thoughts after this. gomery and abigail higgins had... ...a tree that bore the most rare and magical fruit. which provided for their every financial need. and then, in one blinding blink of an eye, 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bipartisan. the president who said he was going to stand by them did not. it was the one way to give bipartisan cover to a lot of difficult issues. the reason why the president didn't want to do it is because it involved dealing with social security, amongst other things. i thought it was a big, big mistake of the president. >> let's not forget paul ryan voted against boll simpson as well. so the big crusader on mafl -- >> simpson, one of the most conservative republicans out there actually saying good, smart things on taxes. mort and i agree on this. the president -- nobody loves have piece but it would have been a reasonably centrist smart -- >> to what problem? >> exactly. we're going to have jan, on the bol/simpson -- congressman from the great state of illinois was on the commission, she is going to join us in our next hour. we'll talk about the super committee, deficits, boll/simpson and we will get into the footnotes. what you haven't heard, the om thing you haven't heard about 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[ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. i'm chris hayes here in new york. with me we are eliot spitzer, former new york governor, senior editor of "atlantic," mort zuckerman, chairman of "u.s. news & world report," publish of new york daily paper, and heather mcgee, progressive think tank. we've been talking about inequality, occupy wall street, simpson/bowles, presidential leadership. we'll have jan schakowsky join us but we were having a discussion during commercial break about bipartisanship. you said something i want to get you in. >> we had, i think, four liberals sitting here so i'm trying to be polite -- >> don't be polite. >> i just don't -- i'm sort of amazed after come out of the debt ceiling fight the conclusion can be that barack obama was not bipartisan enough. that was an unprecedented event. the notion it's his fault to spread more presidential leadership magical dust, things would have worked out differently. shocking. shocking to me. >> i'm in that same camp. it's unclear to me -- we can talk to -- >> chris, let me reiterate. we disagree a little bit. i think there's been an ab sen of presidential leadership. not bipartisanship. i think he has not had a partner to negotiate with on many of these issues. having said that, he has not made his case to the public. in order to negotiate effectively, he need to make his case. he has not explained to the public with numbers, with the articulate brilliance of persuasive skill he has, why we need to simultaneously deal with the entitlement crisis long term, deal with investment and infrastructure short term and create jobs. he hasn't made the case. >> can i press on you that point? >> of course you can. >> can you explain how that moves us to a position of dealing with the very structural issues we have in congress? 60 votes in senate, putting some sort of pressure -- and i imagine this is where you're going -- on house republicans, how does that get you to getting actual votes? >> what's the causal mechanism? i feel -- >> i'll give you a few things that go beyond rhetoric of the great speech. one, the democratic party could have and should have changed the rules on filibusters. it had a window in which it could have done that and it's mystifying to me -- >> we're in agreement on that. >> -- why the democratic leadership did not say we're no longer going to be held hostage to 60. it's undemocratic. gives 10% of the population to veto forward movement. it gives that tiny fringe to block consensus progress. >> plain states, but continue. >> no, no, i'm trying to be kinder. it's early in the morning. secondarily, why are there democratic senators from states that would clearly benefit from what the president has proposed, former governor mansion, senator mansion, were permitted to stray so far from what is core to democratic party, democratic party brings this em into the oval office and says, you're either in my party or you're not. we have -- i have the power of the presidency. vote with me. lyndon johnson would have made this happen. >> who was a much more partisan president. i mean, we're asking for two different things here. >> yes. >> that's a great point. that's a great point. >> a facilitator who can reach across the aisle with a fictitious -- >> no, i'm saying is make the case more aggressively. that is where -- >> but it's unclear whether that meeting -- i think we have this sense that lbj, you know, we have all the famous photos. the photo of him getting closer, leaning in, we have the famous stories, right? robert cairo has documented in 1,000-page volumes of him arm-twisting in the oval office. the question is, how much of this was magical presidential leadership dust and how much was this -- just the sort of -- i mean, we forget lbj, who had the biggest mandate in the world and he had the death -- he had the death of the martyr john f. kennedy that rallied public -- >> president obama came in a reservoir of -- >> it wasn't 64. i want to bring into the conversation because she is someone who has seen this up close. joining us is representative jan schakowsky, served on simpson bowles. how are you doing? >> good morning, chris. congrats on your show. >> thanks so much. i'm so glad to have you join us. i don't know if your ear piece has conveyed to you the discussion we're having -- hold on a second. that's better. has conveyed the discussion we're having about simpson/bowles but you sat on simpson/bowles. >> i did. >> you did not vote for the co-chair final work product, but you had your own proposal. just tell me a little about why you didn't vote for it and what your own proposal was. >> i felt it was too skewed toward cuts. i felt that those cuts, particularly in medicare, they did a social security proposal, even though it has nothing to do with the deficit. that i proposed my own balancing the budget. it achieved the same numbers, without hurting the middle class and those who aspire to it. i have to tell you one thing, chris, i think in some ways this is yesterday's conversation. the obsession with deficit reduction right now, certainly the narrative in the country right now, has shifted so much now to jobs, the notion of the 99%, the unfairness that we have in the tax code, the way that most of the wealth now and the growth in the country has gone to the top 1%. yet we're still dealing with this issue of how we have to make these drastic cuts right now in the budget. i don't think that's where the american people are. and even simpson/bowles postponed all cuts until 2013. and i think that this idea of coming up with some sort of a grand bargain, frankly, i think the super committee might be better off not to agree on anything. or at least the american people would be better off if they did not and go into sequestration, or at least some low income programs are protected. if we can't cut $600 billion from the defense budget over the next ten years, then that's ridiculous. of course we can do that. >> yeah, i'm glad you mentioned the super committee because i think you're right. you said this is yesterday's conversation. but what's remarkable is how yesterday's conversation has birthed today's super committee. so, even though the fact that the narrative, i think, has changed politically, what people are talking about, there's a deficit mania that seized washington, the political press in the beltway for a while. it really has turned, i think, quite strongly towards job creation, the recession, the sort of -- some sort of short-term stimulus and yet we're left with a legacy the super committee, either going to come up with $1.5 trillion in cuts or trigger 1.2 trillion in cuts. those cuts are baked into the cake. there's something maddening about the fact we're able to get that deal struck but not going to be any deal struck with for all the people hurting on unemployment. >> the congresswoman -- >> that's exactly right. the very -- i mean, the reality is that jobs and people actually paying taxes reduce the deficit. if we can get the economy moving, if we can focus on putting people back to work and stimulating the economy, then we're going to -- we're going to grow our way out of this deficit problem. and i have to tell you that any deal that cuts medicare and social security benefits, not cuts the programs or makes them more efficient but cuts those benefits should be, to most -- and is to most americans completely unacceptable. we don't need to do that. >> let me just quickly show a graph that compares the two. democrats propose their proposal, the super committee this week. it was republicans balked, republicans leaked their version. we have a graph showing -- comparing them. total deficit reduction, both coming a little over $2 trillion but medicare cuts to beneficiary cuts in the democratic version. there's a little bit of stimulus and a lot in spending cuts. the ratio of cuts to tax increases is 6-1. so, it's marched oon further from simpson/bowles toward the republicans -- i'm other. you wanted in there. >> the congresswoman is right. the debate has shifted toward job, infrastructure, education, all those issues, however -- here's the piece even question as democrats, liberalsing whoever you want to cat rise me or us, we must control health care spending long term. you can't have an economy where the percentage of gdp up towards 20% -- >> agreed. >> -- and expect us to be competitive long term. we have to confront that, as liberals, democrats, it's a reality. >> congresswoman, do youave a response? >> absolutely. we could have medicare negotiate with the pharmaceuticals for lower drug prices. we could have a medicare prescription drug benefit all together so you don't are to go to the private sector. we could have a public option. these are things that i put into my plan. of course, they're considered unpassable. but the idea of cutting benefits to medicare beneficiaries? that's just fine. while medicare beneficiaries are spending about as much out of pocket right now as they did when medicare was first put into place. and they haven't seen a social security for two years, they'll get one right for you. why is that okay? i think we have to further change that conversation to say, yes, there are ways to make these programs more efficient. we could have a single payer health care plan that would absolutely reduce costs of health care. but we don't talk about that. we talk about putting seniors under the gun. no. it's not fair. >> congresswoman, if it's okay with you, i want you to stick around. we'll take a break and come back and talk more about exactly this. "hey wrinkle face!" that's what people could say if you're still using a liquid foundation that can settle into your lines and wrinkles and make you look older. covergirl and olay floats above lines and makes you look younger. can your anti-aging makeup do that? simply ageless from olay and easy, breezy beautiful, covergirl. it's still good. it's just a little dirty. it's just a little slimy. it's still good. it's still good. it's just a little airborne. it's still good, it's still good. >> it's gone. >> i know. >> of course, that's the episode of the simpsons remining us of negotiations in the obama administration and democrats in general continuing to tell themselves republicans' faith is still good no matter how toxic or airborne it gets. congresswoman jan schakowsky on satellite from illinois, mort zuckerman, healthier mcgee, eliot spitzer. we were just talking about deal-making and whether there's someone on the other side to make a deal. congresswoman schakowsky, mort zuckerman has been arguing the lack of a grand bargain is due to the president's lack of leadership. i wonder what you think of that. >> oh, you know, i think -- >> don't strain yourself now. >> in fact, the president has compromised too much, as reached out too much, tried to attempt to bring them in and have a reasonable conversation. and be as they say, the adult in the room. there hasn't been anybody on the other side. so, i think right now the president is exerting leadership. he is going out into the country and talking about what people themselves are actually attacking about. and that's jobs and that's about getting the economy actually moving and putting people back to work. so, this is the kind of leadership i think most people appreciate about the president. let me say one other thing about the health care debate. u you know, we're talking just about president's programs, medicare and medicaid. if we don't deal with the private sector, private insurance companies, which the president's affordable care act which passed does, sets up exchanges, sets up a benefit package, puts people -- allows people to go into exchanges, otherwise we're not going to do anything to solve the problem. we're just going to shift costs. shift costs to people who actually have to pay out of pocket. so, the president certainly showed leadership on the affordable care act. now, the republicans are trying to undo that. >> congresswoman, i agree with so much of what you've been saying. in respect to social security, it is not a deficit-specific issue. there are two things democrats don't want to do that we should do. one, is raise the 800 threshold for taxability. >> you got. >> that's to fund social security. and you'll flinch when i say this, we can raise the retirement age gradually over time. >> no. >> yes, question. the world has changed since this program was created. i knew -- i knew i'd get a reaction. >> i wish this weren't so dire but for wealthier white men, absolutely, longevity and healthiness has increased. for working class women it has decreas decreased. >> over time we can look at it. >> we have to look at the equity issues. i wish that weren't the case. >> can you imagine us passing -- all right, let's raise retirement age for wealthy white men as the solution, splitting -- congresswoman, you wanted to get in there. >> the very idea that we would raise the retirement age, as heather said, for poor women, that -- that longevity has actually gone down. maybe at some point we can do that. the other question is, so where are the jobs? you're going to go out and at age 65 find yourself a job? where are those jobs? how will those people have income? 10% of people on social security rely on it for 100% of their income. and the average social security benefit is $12,000. $10,000 for women. this is such a modest benefit. i think the idea right now of raising the age, which is a benefit reduction, is just ridiculous. at some point maybe we can consider it, when there are jobs for older people and when people are actually all living longer. not just rich, white men. >> congresswoman jan sha ck shai represents -- >> ninth district in chicago and northern suburbs. >> great to have on you the program. thank you for joining us. we'll definitely have you back. >> thank you. >> we're going to talk about the new herman cain ad that is a phenomenon and a sensation right after this. the employee of the month isss... the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles on every purchase, every day. that's setting the bar pretty high. owning my own business has never been more rewarding. coming through! 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[ male announcer ] layaway's back for christmas in our toys, electronics, and jewelry departments. pnc virtual wallet gathers your spending and saving in one place. credit and debit purchases, checks, bills, and other financial information. it lets you see the details as well as the big financial picture. so you can do more with your money. see what a complete view of your money can do for you at pncvirtualwallet.com. ♪ pnc bank. for the achiever in you. oh, nice. just to get by. herman cain has been doing more than getting by. like that segue? hey. herman cain has been doing more than getting by. he's actually leading the polls. i mean, he's beating mitt romney in the polls. we it were talking about jon hunteman, and herman cain as a washington lobbyist. if you said to me, in these times that we're in where people were worried about krony capitalism and big business and big government getting together, they're going to go out and elect a lobbyist, which is what this guy wants. >> no one knows that. >> that's a testament to his ability to project an ability of outsiderness. part of that is a series of bizarre campaign ads he's put on youtube. this is the one that dropped this week and got a whole lot of attention. let's take a look. >> i really believe herman cain will put united back in the united states of america. and if i didn't believe that, i wouldn't be here. we've run a campaign like nobody's ever seen, but then america's never seen a candidate like herman cain. we need you to get involved because together we can do this. we can take this country back. ♪ i am america ♪ one voice united we stand ♪ ♪ i am america ♪ one voice united we stand ♪ >> look at the smile. so, that was his campaign manager, the man banned from wisconsin politics because of accusations he created a slush fund in a judicial race there. that ad got a lot of attention. you're saying during break you're a defender of the ad. >> yeah, i think it's a great ad. i think he really understands his base. his base is a group of people that love nothing more than to stick it to liberals like me. and i think that's a great comprehension of that fact. if i were herman cain, i'd be much more worried about my organization in iowa and the states than my ads, but i think if he actually had something behind that, some sort of structure behind that that would help him in the primaries, i think he'd be well on his way. >> when you say stick it to liberals -- we have been talking -- we were talking about this ad on the staff the whole week. i threatened we were going to do a karaoke segment where i sang that song. the cigarette smoke is so fascinating because smoking has become this intense class identifier. like, this -- like if you were among a certain kind of socioeducational group like no one smokes and if you're in different socioeducation groups, a lot of people smoke. i wonder if it was intentional or subconscious. >> it's a brilliant ad. the smoking is basically saying, i'm sticking it to the establishment after all these years of you're saying, i can't do this, i'm doing it. and the other piece of it is music. the words -- i have no idea what the words were. all i'm focusing on is this guy smoking and the power of that music that emerges at the end, it's brilliant. it's a good, vapid movie that makes you feel good. it's great tv. >> the first thing he says is, i'm going to put the -- he's going to put the united back in the united states of america. it's suddenly, you know, a barack obama -- >> and the lyrics of the song, that tea party anthem which we've been blasting in the office, i am america, one voice united we stand. i want to also play the -- just because colbert is brilliant, let's show colbert being brilliant. this is his spoofing on the ad on his program this week. >> hi. mike kilpatrick here. it is my privilege to be chief strategist for the cain campaign. i believe herman cain is the man to restore america's greatness. won't you join me? ♪ i am america >> hi, i'm debora, herman cain's personal assistant. no one has ever had a vision for america like herman cain. we hope you share our vision. ♪ i am america ♪ one voice >> i'm sam romano, i do herman cain's taxes. ♪ i am america ♪ one voice united we stand ♪ >> well, mort zuckerman, you've been watching politics for a while. are you surprised by the rise of mr. herman cain? >> well, of course. how could you not be? you know, it's interesting what makes him so appealing. there was a kind of genuine quality to him. you know, in a sense his prominence as we say was due to the flattence of the ground around him. there was an energy to him, intelligence to him and appeal to him. a personal appeal on television. that was extraordinary. again, by contrast. yes, i was surprised. but on some level when you see him on the air, you're not surprised. i don't think he's going anywhere in the nominations. that's not the point. but he has established himself as a real personality rather than a real campaigner. >> you know, i just to want say something quick on his prominence, too. i think his prominence is attributable to people who he very much disagrees with. the presence of herman cain is a testament to the progress of the civil rights revolution that's been happening in this country. you can take it back 200 years but over the last 50 years. herman cain, as much as it mains me to say this, is sign of progress. the fact you can see that ad. i would love nothing more for herman cain who bills himself as a real black man, to win the republican primary and see him run against barack obama. >> it would be the most mind-blowing -- you and every kainl cable producer in the entire universe has the exact same -- >> wait a minute. there's a reason for it. i agree with what we've just heard. i interviewed herman cain at one point. he couldn't answer a single question on stance. he's articulate, grib, charming, a pleasure to chat with and he stands in distinction to the others in the republican party. he's saying, i'm not government. i'm actually somebody who's done something real. for the republican voters, that matters. as it should to all voters. >> healther? >> and i think just less we get into substance on this herman cain thing -- >> oh, god, no. >> sorry. i know you heat that. if you look at the appeal of the 9-9-9 plan it would raise taxes for working families. >> the vast majority of taxpayers. >> 84% of american families would have taxes increased. but here he ties into something really critical which is the desire of the country to have all of this bull that's in the tax code just sort of eliminated. >> simplistic. >> it shows the distrust of the government. i want to know what the actual number is i'm supposed to pay and you're supposed to pay, and i want to know that they're similar. >> and a certain cult of simplicity part of it, too. we talked about this on the program where there was this critique of the health care bill, particularly on the right. it was about how thick it was. you know, it was, oh, you plunk down 200 pages -- >> by the way, i don't know if the "daily news" has 2,000 pages. >> right. these are all -- this is mort zuckerman's -- >> that's no good, mort. >> if you look at the rick perry event he did the other day, his tax plan he had his he's iscy form, one form he took out and the 9-9-9 plan. it gets to this sort of cult of simplicity and get to this -- we have seen, if you look at the last -- the 2006, 2008 and 2010 election. you have seen an electorate whose prime characteristic is serial discontent. in 2008, 2010 and still because things are not been going well in the country, for a bit of time now, and so this outsider status takes on this sort of evaluated feeling when you think, the whole political system is completely bankrupt, totally dirty, let's get someone who doesn't do things corrupt. >> steve forbes, we haven't mentioned his name in a long time, was the first person to really project the flat tax proposal. many think of him as herman cain 1.0. that's on his resume. >> many looked back then and said, this is bad in items of distribution of income, the issues we fundamentally do and care about but it's gained traction because of the simplicity gives public what they want which is tell me who's doing what. your point about dissatisfaction, single best predictor of politics is what percentage of the public is dissatisfied with the way the economy is moving. that barometer does not bode well for the president because those are the votes we're going to vote -- voters will vote against imcouple bant party. >> we have to deal with some basic facts. 25 million people in this country who are either unemployed or underemployed. these are government numbers. 15.1% of america lives below the poverty level. that's 47 million people in america in the poverty land. that's not the america i know or even imagined. so, there is something really serious going on. and rightly, in my judgment, people are focused on how terrible this economy is. and it is. it's the worst economy i've ever known. >> wow, mort zuckerman dropping knowledge on poverty. we'll talk about the pregame -- we'll give a pregame show of the sunday political talk shows. ♪ we're centurylink... a new kind of broadband company committed to improving lives with honest, personal service, 5-year price lock guarantees and consistently fast speeds. ♪ that's why i buy new charmin basic. it's very reasonably priced. plus, it's two times stronger when wet versus the leading competitive brand. new charmin basic works for my bottom line. and my bottom. new charmin basic. the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu. some of the big names on tomorrow's sunday talkers include white house senior adviser david plouffe and herman cain and rick perry. we got you a list of the others, too. this is when i like -- i call it, we play dress up. anyone you want to ask a question to? >> michele bachmann will be on the show -- >> who's she -- oh, yes. got her, michele bachmann. >> take yourself back in time, front-runner -- >> cover of "newsweek." >> exactly. she's been beating up on occupy wall street doing something of what the governor was saying, sort of deflecting, right, talking about the tea party and their tactics and whether they clean up after -- i'm sorry, occupy wall street and whether they clean up after themselves. but if i were -- if i had her at my table i would like to ask her, would you do, as many tea party members have done, and go down to an occupy site in your town and actually talk to them because tea party members who are going down to occupy wall street have a lot in common with folks, particularly about the corruption in government. >> that's a great question. >> bill gates will be on one of the shows. i would love politicians aside. they talk to much, rarely do they say anything new and interesting. >> tell me about it. >> okay. that's my former life. bill gates has been operating playing on two fields that matter so much for our future. education and health care. when it comes to education, the issue is, how do you scale and bring to scale the success stories that are out there. some schools that work, how do you do that? when it comes to health care, he's focused on malaria. what lessons have we learned combating malaria in africa? >> we should note that the bill and melinda gates foundation, committed itself to all this education. they have gone through experiences in which they have sort of found the solution and funded it and then it turned out not to be the solution. so, they went through a period where they said, small schools. data shows small schools. they put hundreds of millions of dollars into making small schools and recently this past year they said, we looked at the data, turns out, not small schools. >> a guy so harshly analytical and he's rigorous. say, what it working? he doesn't have a political axe to grind. he's done remarkable stuff, both in terms of education and health care. so i would say what are the lessons? >> it's my experience everyone has a political axe to grind. do you have a question? >> yeah, frankly, i -- i'm going to piggyback to what i was saying last segment. herman cain leading in the polls. i want to know why he does not have a strong organization in place? i think, you know, if you were a candidate of substance, wants to be a candidate of substance, he could make a run at this thing. i don't know how you waste an opportunity like this. >> i am extremely on the same page as you because -- and i have to say. i'm not going to buy into the whole notion he's trying to hustle a book, take him at his word he's an actual candidate. >> right. i'm coming around to the same opinion which is that i think we've seen these -- this sort of rise of people that are the anti-romney. there's been a carousel and it comes around, michele bachmann, goes by, rick perry and goes by. so, there's -- a lot of us were expecting, we're in the herman cain bubble, you get cynical. but i am now coming to believe he does have staying power, actually. if he were -- if he could get an organization under his feet he could make a run. maybe that's diluted. heather is saying, you're completely delusional. >> the people you list, they fell for actual reason. there were things that actually happened. michele bachmann lost her campaign manager. they didn't just deflate. there were structural things that were wrong. rick perry severely underperformed in debates. things actually happened. it's not be unavoidable fate. >> mort zuckerman, do you have a question? >> i would have asked herman cain what his strategy was? frankly, given the fact he has not followed through on an operational level, i would ask him what is he going to do after this campaign and i'd like to ip vest with him. >> right. always closing, says mort zuckerman. >> you're more savvy than that. i wouldn't invest with cain. you said something during the break, 84% of the american public would see its taxes go up. under cain's plan. that was the number mort gave us. i have absolute confidence in it. that's why herman cain will not survive at the end of the day, that number will deflate his bubble. the phrase, someone said this is the andy warhol primary, everybody gets their 15 minutes of fame. i think this is cain's 15 minutes and then he passes. >> i want to ask you guys about one more thing, which i wanted to bring up earlier. two of the most -- the concrete things that are sort of coalescing around in the occupy wall street movement and as people start to think about how to operationalize it, one is a march for financial transaction tax, the g-20 is meeting. people say rightly in order for it to really work, you'd have to be global, right, so that you don't have it in the u.s. and then capital goes -- flees to wherever it is. the other thing is people are doing this move your money campaign. moving money out of too large to fail banks into credit unions and institutions like that. what do you think about this? do you think this is -- particularly the move your money campaign which is so nicely concrete but also seems sort of weirdly -- >> insufficient to the task? >> thank you for completing my sentence. what's your feeling? >> two things. i want to correct you it's actually not a 1% financial speculation tax but a 0.1 of 1%. ten cents on every $100 in trading. >> just like i said. >> if they're going to flee for that, then they have a serious problem when 401(k) brokerage fees are 7%. we're talking about ten cents for every $100. that on the financial speculation tax. >> excuse me. it's not speculation. it's financial transactions. >> right. >> but you get hit the most -- >> when you imply it's all speculation. that's not really the case. >> well, it's not -- >> we tax everything. >> it's not checking accounts, it's not -- >> but it also is the case that if you are buying and holding, if you are doing the kind of sort of long-term investing that we sort of tend to idealize you'll not get hit that hard. if you're running 40 transactions a day, then you will get hit. >> what mort is saying is correct. the impact of the tax declines over the duration of a longer holding but it is not just a tax on speculation. >> sure, sure. >> understand what it is. >> it's on every transaction. >> it used to exist in new york. significant revenue source for the state of new york, it lapsed. could it be put back in place without having a huge impact on where capital flows? yes. should it be done? yes. at a low level or you would see distortive impacts. >> the distortive impacts we want. dean baker found if we can shrink the size of the financial volumes by just 3%, we'll have a 0.8% rise in productivity. we go through herculean sort of backflips to try to get -- >> counterproductive. >> actually, the size of our financial sector has been a major problem -- impediment to the growth of the real economy. >> you're right about that. what do we know when the week began? 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[ male announcer ] in here, you're never away from home. it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. at&t. just a second i'll tell you what i didn't know when the week began. right now, time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt," and richa richard is filling in. >> coming uhm in about 15 minutes, october surprise at the top of the nine, we'll bring you details of the snowstorm hitting parts of the northeast. some places will get a foot of snow. we'll tell you where. and president obama in 2012 battleground states, could some gop governors end up helping the president win re-election? we'll talk to howard dean on that one. invent with more profound implications than you might imagine. the world's 7 billionth person, he or she will be born on monday. we go inside the interesting numbers coming up. >> so what do we know now we didn't know last week? we know popular support for occupy wall street's agenda remains high. according to a "new york times" poll, 65% of those polled say taxes on those making more than $1 million should be raised. the support is one of the most consistent, robust results in polling on public policy for a good long while now. we also know 1% has managed to insulate itself pretty effectively from public opinion in the halls of congress and we know this is exactly the heart of the problem. we also know 24-year-old iraq war veteran scott olsen is thankfully no longer in critical condition after he was apparently struck by a tear gas canister that fractured his skull during the occupy oakland protest tuesday night. we also know so far each instance of police overreaction to the occupy protesters has only strengthened the movement. we now know exactly how right nina was when she sang mississippi god damn as voters in the state appear to be poised to pass a state constitutional amendment that would declare a woman's fertized leg a person criminalizing abortion, some forms of birth control and even possibly in vitro fertilization. we also know there are similar proposals percolating in a number of other states so we know this isn't going away. we know there's a very thin wall comprising a single supreme court justice that keeps the country out of the hands of those who support forced pregnancy. we know the gop field is in trouble if pat robertson, yes, that pat robertson, thinks the republican base is demanding too much extremism from their candidates. here's him giving his take on the 700 club. >> forcing their leaders, the front-runners into positions that will mean they lose the general election. >> officially upside down and robertson is the voice of political reason. we know the occupy wall street protesters are right. 1% really is different than the 9 9%. thanks to a new report from the congressional budget office, we now know that since 1979 the 1% is the only group in the country to see its share of the national income increase. we also know that the gop field's solution to growing inequality is summed up nicely by rick perry. >> i don't care [ bleep ]. >> thanks to the dogged investigative reporting team at fox news we know a.c.o.r. nncht n. reanimated the corpse and the new zombie version is behind occupy wall veet. we know in the right wing imagination, a.c.o.r.n. during life span would eye rolling is apparently as hard to kill as res putin. after fears democracy would have shea rhea law in the middle east, we know the first democratically elected government in tunisia is a moderate democratic party. the platform is more open-minded and freedom loving than certain quarters of our own religious right here in the u.s. spokesperson has said atheists and homosexuals have a right to exist and respect for lbg tunisians is a matter of dignity. that spokesperson could not get very far in the gop primary field. finally, we now know our syborg future is here as evidenced by this man, trevor, who successfully installed a smartphone docking station in his prosthetic arm allowing him to make phone calls or text with his other hand. we do not know if britain's national health service covers upgrades. what do my guests know? thanks for laughing. that was kind of you. [ male announcer ] nature valley sweet & salty nut bars... they're made from whole roasted nuts and dipped in creamy peanut butter, making your craving for a sweet & salty bar irresistible, by nature valley. for a swwhoa. salty bar irresistible, whoa. how do you top great vacations? whoa. getting twice the points on great vacations. whoa! use chase sapphire preferred and now get two times the points on travel, and two times the points on dining and no foreign transaction fees. whoa! chase sapphire preferred. a card of a different color. apply now at chasesapphire.com/preferred want to find out what my guests know that they didn't know when the week began. we start with mort zuckerman who publishes this, which is a great subway read in the city. mort? >> well, i find myself astonished at the role that steve jobs played in the sort of consciousness of the country. particularly as almost the leader of the whole world, the transformative world of new technologies. his loss is a shock. >> you've been surprised by how much it's a cultural moment it's become. >> right. >> heather mcgee, you run the washington office of demos, progressive think tank, vetd ran of "up," we'll have you back. >> so, i feel like i always come on this show and talk about fish, but consumer reports put out an article this week. 22% of the fish that the testers bought at restaurants, small fish markets, grocery stores, big box stores, was not the fish that it was advertised. fish fry -- >> fake -- >> across the country, it's fish fraud. >> that's fascinating. >> it is. >> the funny thing is that what ends up happening -- i remember reading what's been happening is we overfish popular fish and no longer -- so we start fishing fish fishermen used to throw back and they rename it something. i think brunzinof you go to restaurants, it's not that. but it was called bottom feeder, gupy or whatever and then someone is like, we'll call it brunzino and put it in front of you. 20% fish fraud. good to know. >> i'm so glad i'm a vegan. >> wow. are you really? >> for the last two years, yeah. >> this is the thing now. bill clinton, mort zuckerman. >> what's the percentage for chicken? >> eliot spitzer, what do you now know -- >> here's what i didn't know. baseball can be incredibly exciting. the sixth game of the world series -- if we get -- one of the great games ever played. >> amazing. >> and it makes you appreciate the beauty of the sport, the grace of the sport. a sport where a clock doesn't dictate the outcome. we're into the last pitch you can come back. >> congratulations. ly say this. i am -- i was born and raised in the bronx a few miles from yankee stadium but born and raised a cubs fan. my dad is from the north side of chicago. i'm duty-bound to hate the st. louis cardinals as a cubs fan. in fact, it was difficult. i was cross-pressured because there's george w. bush sitting in the front row of the texas rangers, versus the cardinals? my cubs fan won out but i'll tip my cap to the st. louis cardinals. congratulations on a great victory. >> i know something a little more abstract and that is the importance of your own moral comass. along with my writings i've railed against the tsa. i decided i would put something behind it and take a nine-hour train ride instead of a one-hour flight. i felt good after it was done. and i want to relate that back to a conversation we were having earlier today about moving your own money. i don't know if that's going to have any sort of policy effect or any implications when you look at it from that angle, but the whole idea of not participating in something that you believe to be a great injustice is worth something in and of itself. whether birmingham succeeded or not, it's worth something to say, you know what, i'm no longer going to -- i'm sorry, montgomery, i'm no longer going to ride this bus. i'm no longer going to allow people to treat me this way. >> you chose to take that train because you wanted to opt out of what tsa is doing at airports. >> yes. we'll see how long i can do that. i'm a big believer in citizens not just sitting back and complaining but doing something. whether it's going to change or not, you have the right of saying, i'm not going to participate. >> the moral force of opting out my thanks to eliot spitzer, ta-hai sichlt, mort zuckerman and heather mcghee, thank you for getting up. props to kim harvey in the control room who butchmped us o with "i am america," thank you and thank you for joining us on "up." coming up next is "weekends with alex witt" and tomorrow we'll talk about glenn greenwald and follow us on twitter. see you tomorrow. thanks for getting up. we're america's natural gas and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. 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