inasmuch as with that case, with raffensperger, we have the phone call, we have the recording, we know what was said, we know it was clear. whereas with this case, it's kind of left up to the interpretation of the different accounts and other people on the call. as to the degree of pressure which was being placed on donald trump. legally what that's going to mean is everything comes back to the timeline. what did you know at the time that you made these calls? and then, what was said on the actual calls? so i think that is going to be the linchpin that determines whether a prosecution moves forward wrts to arizona, as compared to georgia, where you have the actual recording and you know what was said. >> good point. to stay with you just a second, charles, the other thing is, right, we don't know what trump might have to fear from what mike pence or doug ducey might say to jack smith. but there are other people. former trump campaign official, mike roman, who was involved in efforts to put forward these