jury. going through and looking from journalistic standpoint the way the trump organization operated, when michael cohen and others said that this is a way of underpaying people. relatively low salaries and compensating them with presents for them, their kids, house to live in. did you find that thing in the internals of the trump organization? particularly the stuff that mary trump provided? >> we didn't see so much that because we had tax return information. this is now what they didn't tell the tax man. but what it had the effect of doing is reducing the amount of taxable income the irs could go after. getting perks on the one side, and just the way they're being accounted for is not fully reflecting the taxable income. when i heard the remarks on saturday, i heard two things. joy talking about they're going