central value that middle americans clung to was the idea of strong values and george bush was a good man, a man of values. he goes to church, loves husband wife. those things. i find it hard to believe, and it's not the one thing, it's as the old folks would say, it's a tide of these things that i think if you put this case before moderate middle america, and i still do have faith in democracy, i still have faith in the majority of american people. if you put this to that suburban mom in wisconsin, that suburban mom outside of atlanta, and look at this and she's going to say, these are not good people. these are not the values i want to instill in my children and my family. and i think that bedrock of voters are going to continue to slowly move toward biden and the democrats because the republicans have lost it. >> the thing is, we were going to talk a lot about bill ackman today. we didn't get into him as much. this is the whiny big time