right? even though we gave them all the evidence, they wouldn't do it. so look, i would -- i very much wish it were otherwise but i just -- these guys are spineless and now, now, if we take a bunch of them out in the primaries in 2022 and the precondition for getting elected is we're going to fight this stuff, then maybe we got an opportunity. >> joining me now is lauren windsor, executive producer of the under current and project exposed. thanks for being here. quick question, were you surprised how open john eastman was in admitting he really did mean when he put it in that memo he intended it to be done given the fact he's denied that to the national review? >> yes, i was very surprised. i expected him to be more shell shocked honestly because of the incoming flak he described himself in one of the first videos we released. >> let's talk about whether or not this was just john eastman