what it's too political, who sensitive, we don't want to get involved. i have a real problem with that. >> i want to put up a map of nato and ask you, given that we do have mutual defense treaties. that's a real treaty between presidents and countries. we do have a mutual defense relationship with nato w countries. russia seems to be awfully cautious about not encroaching on a nato country.be what's th role of those bright green countries a member of which we areun in nato in this conflict? >> well, look, there's a big difference between a country thathe is part of the nato trea and a country like ukraine that isan not. the president hasne made it ver clear they're going to reinforce our nato allies, that's where our ships are going, our trains, all centered on putin thinking for one minute that he can go into a nato country. so the role is to reinforce. you know, i think there's a good debate to be had about what we could be doing for ukraine.