that are attacking them are responsible for creating in the first place. yeah we're in a dangerous moment, rachel in the country and it's going to get worse. >> and, steve, when you talk about danger, as you describe it, increasing radicalization -- the thing that stuck with me today about mr. kagan's piece, is his critique of the underestimating of this as a threat, the understilting of the power of in authoritarian movement. and the consequence of underestimating which is apiecement. what it has me wondering is what is the opposite of underestimating it? what is the op opposite of apiecement? what are the options that are available if we decide to confront this as a country and do not take this -- to not play this down, to recognize the threat here and the historical echos you describe here in a way that is bone chilling? what does that look like? what is the opposite of