Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20130206

Wall street was really . Those guys arent in jail already . Thats all ahead tonight. Plus charts imitating life. Weve got the onetime sheriff of wall street, former new york governor, new York Attorney general Eliot Spitzer here. Weve got more, as i said to ed, more on Michael Isikoffs big security scoop. There is lots ahead this hour. But we start tonight in the fall of 2008 when president obama was first elected. He was elected on november 4th, 2008. And after the partisan combat of that election faded quickly and the country absorbed that this was going to be our new president of the United States, the Approval Ratings for barack obama soared. His approval rates went to 79 . By inauguration day, 2009, nearly two Million People would turn out on the National Mall to see him sworn in. It was a heady, heady time whether or not you had voted for him. But of course that was not true for everybody. Election day was november 4th. November 10th, so six days later, not even a week later, there was one republican congressman from georgia who was already denouncing the president elect as both a marxist and a nazi. If you think about it, its kind of a hard thing to pull off simultaneously, right . A marxist and a nazi . Look at the time stamp here. November 10th, 2008. Congressman paul broun of georgia telling the Associated Press already at that point that he, quote, fears that president elect obama will establish a gestapolike Security Force to impose a marxist dictatorship. Thats exactly what hitler did in nazi germany, and its exactly what the soviet union did. Yes, barack obama still months away from even being sworn in as president at that point. But congressman paul broun was already on him for being both a nazi and a soviet communist. And that kind of set the tone for how congressman paul broun of georgia would handle himself over the next four years. I believe this administration wants to destroy the Free Enterprise system. There is a word for that, socialism. He is a marxist. Fellow patriots, we have a lot of domestic enemies of the constitution and theyre right down the mall in the congress of the United States. And right down independence avenue in the white house of that belongs to us. Its not about my ability to hunt, which i love to do. Its not about the ability for me to protect my family and my property against criminals, which we have the right to do. But its about, its all about us protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government of the United States. Do you think president obama is a socialist . I know he is. In fact, you look at his own writings, he said when he was in college, he leaned to marxist tendencies and marxist professors. He joined marxist clubs. You look at who he has put in his administration, theyre avowed socialists. But you think he is an american citizen and a christian . Well, im not going get involved in that im talking about you cant say he is an american citizen . Well you cant say the president is an american citizen . I dont know. You dont know. And is he a christian . I dont know that. Who knows if the president is a christian . And who knows if the president is an american citizen . Who knows if the president is really not the president because he is secretly foreign . Who knows if the president caused the deepwater horizon spill on purpose. Using the crisis of this oil spill to try to promote his energy tax. And ive had numerous people all over the district question whether his poor response to this oil spill was purposeful so that he could promote his energy tax. I dont know. I dont know. Maybe he is just letting that oil spill for political purposes, because he is a nazi and a marxist. Who could know . The same congressman decided during the state of the Union Address in 2011 that he would not attend the speech in congress, but rather he would troll the speech on twitter. Quote, you dont believe in the constitution, mr. President. You believe in socialism. Thats what he was tweeting during the state of the union. He has declared nancy pelosi a domestic enemy against whom he is sworn to protect the nation. He has said that president obama is part of a socialistic elite planning to declare martial law. And he has said that the president may use the excuse of a flu pandemic to declare a martial law. He said, quote, weve seen that historically. Guess how this gentleman feels about Health Reform . Folks, this is obama care. Let me start this by telling you what i think of this bill and obama care. They only have one agenda, and that is socialism. I call it i call it a steamroll of socialism that is being driven by nancy pelosi, harry reid, and fueled by barack obama. So very strong feelings about obama care. I should also tell you, though, that congressman browne also has very strong feelings about fruits and vegetables. He has very, very strong feelings about fruits and vegetables. The cdc, theyre going to be calling you and finding out how many fruits and vegetables you eat today. This is socialism of the highest order. You see, there is kndominion and cherubimss. And the cdc calling on your vegetable intake. The highest order. One more. This came when people started to lose patience with the fact that the Republican Party puts guys like paul broun on the Science Committee in congress. Yes, paul broun is on the Science Committee. He oversees federal science policy for us as a nation. Ive come to understand that all that stuff i was taught about evolution and embryology and big bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. And its lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior. That one led to a writein campaign in this past election where people in paul brouns georgia district got thousands of voters to write in Charles Darwin instead of voting for paul broun. It was protest vote against him while he ran unopposed technically. It was also a plea to the Republican Party in washington to at least please not put that pit of hell guy back on the Science Committee. Republicans in washington put him back on the Science Committee anyway. The existence of a congressman like paul broun says something about our times, and it says something about his district, and it says something about the bar to entrance in Congress Since apparently it does not exclude a man who apparently thinks the soviet union still exists. Thats him accusing president obama of upholding the soviet constitution. That was from this past year. The importance of congressman paul broun today is that paul broun is running to be the next u. S. Senator from the great state of georgia. Paul brouns wife is already reported to have started telling people that back in georgia. Paul broun himself is reported to be telling donors already. And at a press Conference Tomorrow afternoon in georgia paul broun is expected to officially get into the u. S. Senate race. Unless of course all this reporting is lies straight from the pit of hell. All that is lies straight from the pit of hell. If its not lies straight from the pit of hell, then paul broun is in the running to be the Republican Partys standard bearer when they try to hold on to georgias soon to be open senate seat once Saxby Chambliss retires. What could possibly go wrong with paul broun as their candidate . And further news how paul broun is adjusting to a second term of barack obama, senators decided in virginia that vote shotgun be made much harder in that state. In the state of arkansas, republicans voted their state should ban abortion at 20 weeks. This comes just days after republicans in the senate there voted that their state should ban abortion not at 20 weeks, but at six weeks. In iowa today, a new round of polling shows that Iowa Republicans first choice for their open seat does remain congressman steve king. Congressman steve king, seen here in this footage, demonstrating on the floor of the house how he thinks that immigrants should be electrocuted just like livestock. The announcement from karl roves money machine a few days ago that they would try to stop candidates like steve king and paul broun from continuing to cost the Republican Party seats in the u. S. Senate. The reaction to that announcement on the right was immediately and uniformly and vociferously hostile. How dare karl rove and his money guys try to do any such thing. And so yes, paul broun and steve king may be the prototypical examples of the kind of off the cooke end candidates that karl rove and the big money guys do not want in republican politics, because those are the kind of guys that Lose Senate Seats that are otherwise winnable. But karl rove and his money guys kind of stand alone in that assessment. The rest of the party wants that. They want those guys. And they want it not naively. They know what they are getting. Steve king and paul broun have been around for a long time. When the party stands up and says these are the guys they want, they know who theyre talking about. They know who these guys are. And it is what they choose. So if you were a Republican Party stalwart, if you were part of the Republican Party and you loved the Republican Party and you wanted what was best for the Republican Party, what would you do at a time like this . What would you say . How would you try to fix this problem . Well, today in Washington House majority leader eric cantor tried something, and he does this from time to time, as he tries to be taken seriously as a leader of his party, or at least as a potential leader of his party. In 2010, eric cantor launched his young guns thing. Young guns, presumably to try to supplant the old guns in the party. He then launched something called cut and grow so you at home could set the Republican Partys agenda instead of the old guys in the party who are setting the partys agenda. In 2009 he launched something called the National Council for a new america to tap outside the beltway ideas for the Republican Partys agenda. Sadly, the pizza parlor that he chose for that launch event for his big outside the Belt Initiative was a pizza parlor that literally was inside the beltway. You see, the beltway is not just a metaphor for things around washington. The beltway is a freeway around the d. C. Area that defines that area. And mr. Cantors outside the beltway pizza parlor excitement was actually well inside that freeway loop. And that actually was the only event that that eric cantor Republican Party relaunch ever had. So eric cantor does not have the worlds greatest track record with relaunching his party, right, with choosing a new Republican Party image that everybody should go along with because he has suggested it. He keeps doing it, but nobody ever seems to follow his lead. Still, though, he is trying. Today in his latest effort he called for his party to accept the concept of the dream act at least in terms of Immigration Reform. But while he was doing that, literally at the same time, his own Party Members in his own house were holding their own hearing on Immigration Reform, denouncing reform as amnesty and denouncing any path to legal citizenship, like for example the dream act, as something that was way too extreme. So who wins this fight ultimately . Eric cantor and karl rove and all the beltway sages saying the Republican Party really has to get its act together, or the lies from the pit of hell guys . The electric fence, no amnesty, well just make it harder to vote, ban abortion, tripoli ban abortion, home state republicans who are not shifting position one iota and see no reason to. Who wins this fight . And given that it makes up half of the major Party Apparatus in our american democracy, what do we do in the meantime while this fight is happening . Joining us is e. J. Dionne, author of our divided political heart which is now out in paperback. E. J. , great to have you here. Thanks for being here. Good to be with you. This is the fourth time that eric cantor has attempted to rebrand the Republican Party. When he has previously tried to do that, it has not stuck. How do you think he is doing now . First of all, when karl rove is on the Progressive Side of the argument, you know how far to the right the Republican Party has gone. I think there is a giveaway in the word rebranding because rebranding doesnt talk about changing the product. The same stuff is still inside the can. Its about a new label with a nice friendly type face, nicer colors. But what is inside the can is the same. But i think there is very hopeful news. Thats my job on this show, to be hopeful, in what eric kantor did today. One of the most important things in politics is to control the terms of the political debate. And if you read eric cantors speech, the terms of that speech were progressive terms. The question he was asking is what can government do to help make peoples lives better. Thats not the old republican question. The old republican question was how can we create a Smaller Government . How can we cut taxes on those job creators, the rich people. And weve been here before. The democrats tried to do this in the reagan era when they all tried to look like members of chambers of commerce or corporate boards. So when eric cantor has to go out there and say message we care, you know something is changing in american politics. Well, how did karl rove and actually, george w. Bush specifically on the issue of immigration, how did these guys get on the left side of the argument . I mean, has there been a backlash against them on the right that has driven the party further right in a way that has demonized them, and now they need to be seen as the old liberal establishment, or has Something Else been going on . Well, i think you begin to see the backlash against bush right in the middle of his term. Remember, he tried, as did a lot of democrats and john mccain to get Immigration Reform through in 2007. And thats when the backlash grew. And then when the Bush Administration was deemed a failure, which many of us believed broadly that it was, a lot of conservatives said thats true. And instead of trying to moderate the party then, they said the problem was this compassionate conservative guy was too liberal. So they pulled the party way over to the right. The problem they have now is the Tea Party Folks are the folks who kind of got them there in 2010. And its as if the republicans are saying well, we needed your votes to drive this car to the country club, but we really dont want to let you inside the country club. So theyre courting a kind of class warfare in the Republican Party over the next couple of years. E. J. , one of the things i think you have written about more eloquently than anybody else is the idea of youve written ambitiously i should say about the idea of civility, that we can have reasonable disagreements about even very profound differences in governing philosophy in ways that dont threaten violence. In ways that are about honoring the basic democratic agreement that we have as americans. What struck me going through paul brouns record today, and i ended up swimming around in it for way too long and now i feel like i need to take a shower is that he and steve king, these are guys who really consistently sell an almost militiaesque apocalyptic line. You know, the president as hitler, the coming authoritarian dictatorship, and mix,ing up fascism and marxism and automatic of these things. That timeless, or does that become less politically valuable to them over time . Is that going to go out of fashion while barack obama is still president . I think it doesnt work in the long run in our country. I mean, joe mccarthy had a really good run, and then he was brought down partly by the Republican Party, by dwight eisenhower. And when you look at the results of the 2012 election, they were throwing all this stuff at obama for four years and it didnt work. And if you listen to the tone of eric cantor today, there was none of that. And that suggests to me that at least some of these guys know that that stuff makes them kooky to a lot of people who might agree with them on some issues but arent going to go there to overflowing the dictatorship in washington as they put it. A lot of americans dont think we live under a dictatorship, and theyre right. E. J. Dionne, setting the barlow there. Hopefully we can agree on that. Thank you for being here, e. J. Its great to see you. Thank you. Lots more to come, including a followup on Michael Isikoffs scoop from last nights show. That story has gotten much bigger since then. And Eliot Spitzer live here with us tonight. Please stay with us. [ male announcer ] Research Suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. One a day mens 50 is a complete multivitamin designed for mens Health Concerns as we age. It has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. One a day mens 50 . Your doctor will say get smart about your weight. I tried weight loss plans. But their shakes arent always made for people with diabetes. Thats why theres glucerna hunger smart shakes. They have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. And they have six grams of sugars. With fifteen grams of protein to help manage hunger. Look whos getting smart about her weight. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. A smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. I need you. I feel so alone. But youre not alone. I knew youd come. Like i could stay away. You know i cant do this without you. Youll never have to. Youre always there for me. Shh ill get you a rental car. I could also use an umbrella. Fall in love with progressives claims service. All stations come over to mithis is for real this time. Step seven point two one two. Verify and lock. Command is locked. Five seconds. Three, two, one. Standing by for capture. The most Innovative Software on the planet. Dragon is captured. Is connecting todays leading companies to places beyond it. Siemens. Answers. Last night on this show investigative agent Michael Isikoff broke a story about obama and its policies. He broke the story ahead of the president s announcement for new choice of cia director, john brennan. John brennan was once the deputy cia director. He is now president obamas counterterrorism director at the white house. But if he is to run the cia for president obama, john brennan is first going to have to face questions on thursday about some of what Michael Isikoff turned up here on this program last night. A Justice Department white paper elaborating the administrations reasoning for why it thinks it is legal to kill american citizens on the president s say so. Or actually, on the say so of an informed high level official of the u. S. Government. So maybe thats the president , but maybe thats somebody else. Michael isikoffs scoop ended up at the New York Times today and the Washington Post and the hill and slate and salon and ap to name a few. It was everywhere. And then at a press conference today, the attorney general was asked about it. Last night nbc reported a white paper that was prepared by the Justice Department undated, unsigned about the legal the legal pinnacles for targeting americans overseas. Could you please give us what the precise definition is and how that would be carried out . Well, there have been a series of speeches that i gave, jay johnson gave, john brennan gave where we tried to lay out for the American People the considerations that go into the operations. We say that we only take these kinds of actions when there is an imminent threat. Mr. Attorney general, you brought up the phrase imminent threat. Is that the same as an ongoing threat or is this a difference . So many of these things are factbased. I cant necessarily get into the weeds and kind of parse these things. You cant examine these terms without having a reference to the facts. The fax. These things are based on facts. Facts that i cannot facts that i cannot tell you. So i cannot reference them because i cannot tell you them, but they are facts. Watch. Why not release the memos . I mean, you were a driving force behind releasing the Bush Administrations torture memos. Why arent you a force for this . Well, i mean, well have to look at this and see how what it is we want to do with these memos. But you have to understand that we are talking about things that are that go into really kind of how we conduct our offensive operations. Right. Exactly. They go into how you conduct your offensive operations. Thats the thing we want to know about. This memo, the memo doesnt seem to be classified. The writer is marked confidential, but not classified. Why not release that to the general public . You said you can only discuss that in a classified setting. But the memo were discussing. Were taking what sounds like an ongoing threat and saying its an imminent threat. Thats something we would have to look exactly what is in the white paper. We would have to look into that. Youre not aware of what is in the white paper . Well have to look that. Have to look into that. You know, your agency wrote it. Also, nbc put the whole thing online. Seriously, check it out. Super easy. We linked it at maddow blog. 16 pages long, shorter than most articles in the new yorker. Now a Bipartisan Group of 11 senators has written to president obama asking him to release about what is still secret about why the president and the administration think it is legal to kill americans this way. Quote, it is vitally for congress and the American Public to have a full understanding of how the executive branch interprets the limits and bound relatives this authority so that congress and the public can decide whether this authority has been properly defined and whether the president s power to deliberately kill american citizens is subject to appropriate limitations and safeguards. Honestly, in the real world, particularly in the real political world, there is some compunction, but very little compunction about the president using extreme counterterrorism measures. The president using lethal force against bad guys. In the case against the american whose killing seems to have inspired a lot of the secret legal reasoning, the case against Anwar Al Awlaki doesnt seem to tug at the heart strings. Adds a senior recruiter for al qaeda he was associated with the mass shooting attack at ft. Hood in 2009 in texas and with the attempted Christmas Day airliner attack, the underwear bomber, right . Later that same year. If we accept that the u. S. Is at war with al qaeda, then it is not a stretch to believe that the u. S. Would target a prominent al qaeda figure like Anwar Al Awlaki in that war. With some exceptions, the broad political and moral issue here is not an issue with u. S. Forces killing bad guys. The issue here is who is a bad guy and how do you figure it out . If this is the means by which were going to decide not that youre going to be arrested and tried, but the means by which we will decide whether the president can order you dead, then on what basis is the president making that decision . How do they determine who is a bad guy . Or as oregon senator ron wyden put it in a question, a written question to the president s cia nominee john brennan, how much evidence does the president need to determine that a particular american can be lawfully killed . Following naturally on from that, and this is the one that keeps me up at night, does the president have to provide individual americans with the opportunity to surrender before killing them . Does this obligation change if the president s determination that a particular american is a valid target has not been publicly announced or publicly reported . Think about that, right . If youre an american citizen and the president is going to kill you, do you have the right to give yourself up instead so you dont get killed . And how do you know you should do that if the president s decision that he is going to kill you is a secret decision that nobody ever tells you . And are we right also in only imagining this kind of thing happening in places like yemen or pakistan . Quoting again from senator wyden here, are there any geographic limitations on the intelligence communitys authority to use lethal force against americans . Do any intelligence agencies have the authority to carry out lethal operations inside the United States . Good question. Good questions. And now the question is whether the administration is going to make john brennan field those questions alone before the senate on thursday at his confirmation hearing. Are they going to disclose anything else to provide answers to these questions before their nominee is forced to try to handle them alone on thursday when his nomination is on the line . Ticktock, the hearing is thursday. Well see. Citi turns 200 this. In that time thereve been some good days. And some difficult ones. But, through it all, weve persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. 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Has arranged for itself. The president insists that there is no reason to go through with that automatic set of cuts so deep they could easily throw us into another recession. He says there is a reasonable way forward to talk about taxes and the budget and the overall future of Government Spending without forcing ourselves into another round of hared negotiations. The republicans of course want another round of harried negotiations. They say they do not want out of this latest self imposed crisis in washington. They want to use the threat of that crisis. They want to use the threat of this sequester thing, the threat of a selfimposed recessionary force to force the president into spending cuts he otherwise would not make. The wall street journal reported earlier this month on why they feel that way. Quote, the driving passion for mr. Boehner in these fiscal debates is his conviction that trillion deficits are sapping the country of its energy and prosperity. Trillion deficits, his driving passion. Everybody loves John Boehners passion. But this is supposedly what he feels so passionate about. This is a chart of the countrys budget deficit levels every year. Red bars are president bushs deficits from 2008 and 2009. Blue bars are president obamas deficits. Those really big bars are when the whole World Economy crashed, including ours. Remember that . You notice how the deficit gets smaller when the bars are blue over time . See how theyre getting shorter as you go to the right . Today the Congressional Budget Office released their deficit projection for 2013. So for this upcoming year, the nonpartisan cbo. According to them under president obama the deficit is slated to continue to shrink, as it has been under president obama. But the supposedly gigantic growth of those deficits is why Congressional Republicans are committed to us lurching from selfimposed crisis to selfimposed crisis instead of us working this stuff out like adults. The accusation that president obama has grown the deficit giantly since he has been in office is a very politically potent accusation. And when republicans say it, the beltway media tends to write it down as if it was true. It is not true. It has not been true for a very long time, and there is really no excuse anymore for not knowing that. Meet the 5passenger ford cmax hybrid. When youre carrying a lot of weight, cmax has a nice little trait, you see, cmax helps you load your freight, with its footactivated lift gate. But thats not all youll see, cause cmax also beats prius v, with better mpg. Say hi to the allnew 47 combined mpg cmax hybrid. Impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u. S. . At t. Rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. Its just one reason over 75 of our mutual funds beat their 10year lipper average. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. 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In march 2007, some of the fine folks at Morgan Stanley were brainstorming via email about what they wanted to call a new product they were working on. It was an investment package essentially that they would eventually go on to sell to a chinese bank. Here are some of the potential product names that were suggested in this brainstorming session by a particular Morgan Stanley vice president. Flutter fish 2007, or mike tysons punchout 2007, or he also suggested Nuclear Holocaust 2007. Now, you dont think that will sell it . What about subprime meltdown 2007, or perhaps best of all, the right to the point suggestion of poop bag 2011. Only the Morgan Stanley guy did not suggest the word poop before bag, but suggested the other fourletter word that means the same thing but starts with the letter s. The reason they insisted on giving their products such derogatory names, is because they knew it was poop bag. They would go on to sell it for a price that would indicate it is not worth thes. This is why our Financial System collapsed. Wall street was selling things for prices that did not reflect the value of those things at all. But here is the thing. That was not supposed to be allowed to happen. Youre not supposed to be able to sell Financial Products for way, way, way, way, way, way more than theyre actually worth. Somebody is supposed to be in charge of making sure that the value of investments is at least reasonably related to the price that is put on them. In fact, not just someone, there is a whole industry there is a whole part of the Financial Sector whose job it is to do that. They rate Financial Products. They give them ratings to help guide consumers as to what they are worth. They issue ratings. They are the ratings agencies. And they are central to the reason wall street cratered. The American Economy didnt crater like it had been hit by an asteroid because people were investing in companies that didnt pan out. It wasnt that kind of a collapse. It wasnt that there was a war somewhere and suddenly nobody could get any oil or something. That was not why we had a financial collapse. We had a financial collapse because of fake erie. We had a financial collapse because people were buying and selling things at prices that were totally, totally fake. And the people who were selling them knew it. It was a con game that everybody was in on. And when everybody finally had to acknowledge that the actual value of these things that they had been trading at these inflated prices was not the value they had been trading them at, everybody finely had to admit what the real value was of these things they had been buying and selling. Everything collapsed. So even if you dont understand the overall dynamics of the Housing Market and all the different ways things are traded and how people in Lower Manhattan make money off of it, this is the one thing all of cuss grasp about what went wrong when our economy was destroyed in a way that we have still not recovered from. Thats one thing about the meltdown that everybody gets, right . Which makes this headline today both a wow moment and a duh moment. U. S. Sues s p over precrisis mortgage rating. The government alleging that Standard Poors Rating Agency knowingly inflated its ratings on risky mortgage investments, giving high marks to mortgagebacked securities because it wanted to earn more business from the banks that issued these poop bag investments. Oh, poop bag isnt in the quote. Sorry. I added that. So thats a duh, right . These guys clearly should be busted. These were the guys in charge of the ratings. These were the guys who were supposed to be labeling the poop bag financials as such. Eventually that system of selling worthless junk for tons of money stopped working and the economy fell apart. So duh, yeah, these guys should be in the dock, bigtime. But also not just duh, but wow. Look at the date here. Its today . These guys arent in jail or something already . Nobody has sued them before now . We still have not handled that problem . Should we be encouraged by the fact that they seem to be trouble now or should we be very, very worried that it took this long . Joining news is former new york governor and new York Attorney general Eliot Spitzer. He earned the nickname the sheriff of wall street while he was in office. Governor, its great to have you here. Thank you for inviting me back. Have a laymans understanding of the meltdown. You have a much more advanced understanding. Did i explain any of that wrong . And what is the significance of the Ratings Agency getting in trouble now . You got it exactly right. Let me be very clear about something. The rating agencies and everybody on wall street will say over and over again we were wrong, but being wrong isnt a crime. Theyre right. Being wrong isnt a crime. Lying is the crime. Yeah. What happened here, and you got it exactly right in your introduction, the investment banks, the rating agencies, all of the links in the chain that marketed this junk, all the debt that saddled and then destroyed our economy was marketed by people who knew they were selling us poop, to use the polite word you just used. And they thought it was hilarious. Thats why they were joking the terms. Give them credit for the good sense of humor. You read the emails. They made up new lyric tots the song burning down the house. Theyre clever, but malicious and dangerous. Listen to this one excerpt from page 46 of the complaint today. They said they could have released a revised better system of the Rating System if we didnt have to massage the all day prime numbers to preserve market share. What does that mean . They wanted market share and profits over integrity. Its the same story we saw for over a decade on wall street where integrity was thrown overboard to preserve profits. They lied. The idea that there were people on wall street, that the ratings agencies would play the role of cop, of keeping everybody is honest is how they deflected any idea that there should be government regulation. This was the old line selfregulation. We have a mechanism in place to make sure we will not defraud you the public and the marketplace. Of course, selfregulation is one of the great oxymorons of all time. But just so its clear, the rating agencies are insurance that is paid for by the investment banks. So the investment banks can pretend that what theyre marketing is good. Theyre paying the rating agencies a small fee. So the rating agencies will put the stamp of approval on the debt. The rating agencies which wanted to get that fee which in aggregate was a lot of money, sold the credibility of the market for that profit. Right. And thats what this very thorough very good complaint lays bare. Fraud upon fraud upon fraud. I feel as somebody who is not very well versed in this subject, somebody who has never been well versed and just covered it as news, this is with one thing i got very early on was wrong with the system. Why did it take so long . It shouldnt have taken so long. On the day they announced this case, i have been pretty harsh on eric holder of the Justice Department for not doing much more. On the day they final lly make case, dont want to come down on them again. It should have been years ago. This is indicative of something that has been going on for way too long. And until we get over the presumption. You said something that is revealing. You said look, i didnt really understand it. You got it enough. You understood first of all, we all know youre rachel maddow. You got it all together. But put that aside, you understood the essence of this. They were lying. Thats all you need to know. They were lying about the quality of what they were marketing to the public. And at the end of the day, we the taxpayers had to pick up the tab. And is lying the thing that you need to prove in order to get a conviction here . He says its unfounded and theyre going to win the case. Floyd abrams was saying it was a First Amendment right. Show them that they knew what they were saying was not the case is what makes it a fraud as opposed to simply being wrong. Being wrong isnt a crime. Were all wrong all the time. Lying intentionally in the marketplace is what transforms into an actionable offense. I knew you would help me understand this better. Eliot spitzer, former governor of new york, former attorney general of norm o new york. Always great to have you. Will you come back again soon . Sure. All right. Coming up, john mccain specifically loses a round big time. But theyre refusing to admit it. Im here to tell them they lost. Thats coming. [ male announcer ] susan writes childrens books. When shes happy, she writes about bunnies. When shes sad, she writes about goblins. [ balloon pops, goblin growling ] she wrote a lot about goblins after getting burned in the market. But she found someone to talk to and gained the confidence to start investing again. And thats what you call a storybook ending. Its not rocket science. Its just common sense. From td ameritrade. Ithto fight chronic. Se. Osteoarthritis pain. To fight chronic low back pain. To take action. To take the next step. Today, you will know you did something for your pain. Cymbalta can help. Cymbalta is a pain reliever fdaapproved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. One nonnarcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. 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Talk to your doctor. Cymbalta can help. We have some real breaking news to report at this hour. A tsunami alert has just been issued in the South Pacific at a magnitude 8. 0 earthquake struck just northeast of australia in the solomon islands. This has since been a series of powerful aftershock that have hit the area. There is no damage we know to be associated with this quake itself. But much of this region is either under a tsunami warn organize a tsunami watch. According to the u. S. Tsunami warning center, a tsunami was in fact generated by this very large earthquake. They advise that the impact of that tsunami could be destructive near the earthquake epicenter, which you again see marked on your map here northeast of australia in the solomon islands. They also say the tsunami could impact, quote, more distant coasts. Now, again, this information is still coming in. But again, an 8. 0 magnitude earthquake has struck in the South Pacific tonight. It has triggered a tsunami watch for among other place, seem mow with a, indonesia, and the u. S. Territory of guam. The closest u. S. State is hawaii. At this point no tsunami watch or tsunami warning has been issued for hawaii, but officials in the state have been warned that if tsunami waves reach hawaii, it would likely happen around 10 00 p. M. Local time in hawaii, which would be about 3 00 a. M. Eastern time on the mainland. Thats the latest that weve got right now. Well bring you more information as it becomes available. Stay with us here. Well be right back. By the armful . By the barrelful . The carful . How about. By the bowlful . Campbells soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. Campbells. Its amazing what soup can do. I want candy i want candy. It is not technically over, but yeah, it is over, in the senate, there is one threshold of obstructionist that has never been violated. The thing that never happened in the modernday senate is no senator has filibustered to fill the cabinet. So the last 40 years, no matter how unpopular the president s choice for his cabinet, no senator in that time has used the filibuster to deny the cabinet level nominee an up or down vote. Not everybody gets through once theyre nominated, but nobody gets clocked by just a minority of senators. And it was remarkable when he was asked today the possibility that the republicans may filibuster president obamas nominee for the defense secretary, the leader said it was entirely possible. It is unclear yet. Senator hagel didnt do a very good job before the Armed Services committee, i think the opposition to him has intensified, whether it means he will achieve 60 votes or 51 is not clear. Meaning they will filibuster, the republicans call themselves conservatives. But that word, i dont think it means what you think it means, overthrowing decades of unprecedented issues, it is certain, noises for filibustering, that is a leap, if they filibuster chuck hagel, they will not succeed. We know it because of math. There are 55 senators in the democracy caucus, they support chuck hagel, you need 60 to override a filibuster, so if you carry the one, the democrats only need one on their side to support a filibuster, there are two on record supporting chuck hagel for defense secretary, and weve seen reports for another six republican senators who have said that even though they may, oppose hagel, they wouldnt support a filibuster, there are two that seem unlikely to filibuster as well. That means a total of ten republican senators who wouldnt support the filibuster, and if i have done the math right that is double the amount they need to override it. It is still more than enough, even if you subtract the squishy two. 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He met with progressives and labor groups to talk, and then met with business leaders, the c ceos of 12 companies to talk about immigration. Yesterday, he was in minneapolis to talk about gun violence and gun safety reform. And there has been some movement on the issue of gun safety reform today. Some unexpected movement. On the senate side, republican senator from nevada, dean hiller said that looking at it is a reasonable thing to do, a reasonable step forward. Yes, that is a baby step, but coming from a republican senator that is a step. Even more surprising news on the house side today. Today, a bipartisan announcement from four members of the house on gun safety reform. Democrats Carolyn Maloney and elijah cummings, and scott riggel, unveiling a bipartisan gun protection act. When is the last time bipartisan anything came out of the house . The act would do two things, crack down on straw purchasers, so people who can buy guns because they pass a background check, but then they give the guns to a person who cant pass a background check, it would make it illegal. It may surprise you but that is not against the law. So it would change that, the bipartisan would make gun trafficking a federal crime, making it punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Now, that is it some right . Straw purchases and making it a federal crime. These are not the worlds most ambitious proposals . But the bipartisan supporting it . From the house, that is amazing, and on guns, it is amazing