those details are, quote, state secrets. and yet abu zubaydah's torture has already been confirmed by john kiriakou, the former cia counterterrorism officer who helped capture him. in 2007 he became the first current or former member of the agency to publicly acknowledge its use of torture. and in 2013 under the obama administration, he was imprisoned for leaking classified information. i'm joined now by john kiriakou. john, thank you so much for copping on the show this evening. the central issue of abu zubaydah's case is this idea that his torture and detention at a black site in poland is a state secret, even though the facts about his treatment and cia torture are now widely known, partly thanks to you. do you buy that argument? and is it strange for you, the man who caught him, to now be advocating for his release from guantanamo where he has been held without charge since 2006? >> it is funny the twists and turns that life takes, isn't it? you know, so much has been written about abu zubaydah, not just by journalists, but by the people who were involved in his