brush you can go around the world and dab into places to the degree that you want, that's when you get into serious trouble. when the united states has done well, we have had vital interest at stake in large scale issues. we have fully committed as a nation to fighting and winning a war and in those cases in the modern context we've done well but it's when we try to play a half way game with warfare that it's wrong and i think there is a certain i'm morality to it, as well. >> philis, the -- one of the things we'll talk about for the next several days, weeks possibly is this tragedy of people left behind and for a lot of people who never seen this before, this is going to be the first time they wrestle with the moral issues involved here, but the idea that this is not what is going to happen every single time that you have any kind of exit that is shaped like this from a losing war is just --