maybe still ally who said this is trump's white whale. this could be the thing that really brings him down. and if it does, no chief of staff will be around to talk about it. >> how much time does mick mulvaney have with this title, which apparently is all he has is the title? >> well, again, the title is symptomatic of the fact that there is no functioning white house chief of staff right now. and therefore i don't think trump is in any hurry to replace him. he clearly has no interest. in a chief of staff. he's unchained. unbound. we're all seeing the results of letting trump be trump. >> and the -- the mulvaney holding on to the omb job at the same time, wasn't that mulvaney's way of saying i know this chief of staff thing cannot possibly work? >> i can't imagine what the motivation was, but it's clearly -- you know, clearly this is just a -- the most dysfunctional white house we've ever seen.