pretextual efforts? >> they were letting trump learn the trump way which is i'm not gonna be the one who tells him he's crazy. i'm going to let the electoral college tell him that. i think it is entirely conceivable that people like scalia, bill barr, people who had been around government, people like me were watching this thing and thinking, i don't know what trump believes or doesn't believe, but i know at the electoral college is gonna do, so it doesn't matter. and i know biden is going to be president, i know all of this. so i don't care when he figures this out or doesn't figure it out. i'm not gonna be the one who goes in and burns myself up. and if i'm mark meadows and i want to make money from donald trump when he's not president, which is exactly what mark meadows wants, i'm not gonna be the bad news guy. i'm not gonna let the process i will let the process show this guy with a bad news is. and then you get this to this constitutional loopholes moment. cassidy hutchison mentioned