i perceived his goal with all of this to keep trump in office. you know, he had very seriously deeply considered that allegations of voter fraud, but when he began acknowledging that maybe there wasn't enough voter fraud to overturn the election, and i witnessed him start to explore potential constitutional loopholes more extensively which were connected to john eastman's theory. >> the white house chief of staff mark meadows seriously deeply consider allegations, basically found there was nothing to them, and instead he turned to trying to find constitutional loopholes to keep trump in power anyway. that is, i know he lost, i am going to try to keep him in power anyway, knowing that he lost. that moment was not a criminal