legislative priority. brown along with a few other republicans voted for the senate's version of wall street reform earlier. but when the conference committee added in a $19 billion tax on the largest hedge funds and banks, he balked. now, keep in mind, this $19 billion fee was to make sure the reform bill didn't increase the deficit, take note deficit hawks and it also had the added benefit of providing a disincentive for financial institutions to grow too big. brown, however, said he wouldn't support it. so yesterday, the conference reconvened and they got rid of the tax replacing the money with some funds taken from remaining t.a.r.p. money and higher fdic bank fees. okay, let's be clear what just happened. the t.a.r.p. money is taxpayer money. it's not some magical golden lamp that spitz out doubloons. what brown has succeeded in doing is transferring the burden of paying for reform from the big banks and hedge funds to you, the citizen. writing for the atlantic david invoguelyio says it's harded to see how pushing the tax to average americans and smaller banks helps matters. well, indeed it is. there are two ways of understanding his actions i think. a, he really wants to transfer wealth from american taxpayers and small banks to the same large reckless financial institutions that create the crisis or b, he wants to kill wall street reform as just searching for an excuse. as evidence of the latter, he wrote a letter to dodd and frank today asking for more time to consider his support even after they gave him what he said he wanted. but maybe like his house republican colleague john boehner, what brown really wants is to maintain the status quo. today president obama in a town hall meeting in racine, wisconsin fired back at boehner's comments from yesterday. >> the leader of the republicans in the house said that financial reform was like, i'm quoting here, using a nuclear weapon to target an ant. that's what he said. he compared the financial crisis to an ant. of this is the same financial crisis that led to the loss of nearly 8 million jobs. same crisis that cost people their homes, their life savings, maybe i'm confused. do you think that the financial crisis was an ant and we just need a little ant swatter to fix this thing or do you think that we need to restructure how we regulate the financial system so you aren't on the hook again and we don't have this kind of crisis again? >> get your cell phones out. we want to know what you think. tonight's text survey question is do you think senator scott brown is trying to kill financial reform. text a nor yes, and b for know. we'll bring you the results later in the show. joining me now the other senator brown, democratic.senator sherrod brown of ohio. thanks so much for coming on. >> good to be back with you. >> i guess my first question is, what's your feeling what they did in conference committee late yesterday told appease senator brown? do you think that was the right direction to go? >> i don't like it. i wish that -- i don't get it. people like scott brown have this kind of impact in writing this bill. i understand 60 votes and all of that, but you know, i start with scott brown said, scott brown yesterday broke his no new taxes pledge. he said he wouldn't vote for taxes. he doesn't want a tax on big banks but wants tax on other american taxpayers and a tax on the medium and smaller banks. i start with that. you know, i'm tired of hearing republicans preach this fiscal responsibility when ten years ago, we had a bunch of surplus and then there was billions of dollars for the war in iraq charged to our grandchildren, billions of dollars for the bush tax cuts for the rich charged to our grandchildren, billions of dollars in giveaways to the drug and insurance companies, a bailout for them in the name of medicare privatization and now they only care about.balancing the budget when it comes to workers and when it comes to the health care bill and all of that. so i guess i'm just tired that have hypocrisy more than anything, chris. >> what do you think, obviously, massachusetts is quite a more deeply democratic liberal state than the ohio you represent. i imagine what are the politics of this bill look like to you? what do you hear from your constituents about what the politics of voting for or against this wall street reform package are? >> i don't think anybody in ohio looks at this financial crisis the way the ohio republican leader does. john boehner, that it's an ant and we're killing it with a nuclear weapon. i think people see -- just go around ohio, go to middletown, mansfield, lima and see the number of people who lost their jobs, then they lose their insurance. then their homes are foreclosed on and in this crowd, wants to deny them unemployment compensation and wants to take away the assistance we've provide the last year and a half so that people can keep their health insurance. i just don't get it. i just wonder if my colleagues really talk to people who have lost their homes who, have lost their jobs who, have lost their insurance. i think they need to get out a little more and talk to real people that face these problems. you've got to explain to your kid, to your son or daughter, honey, we have to leave our home because we can't pay for it anymore. i don't know what school you're going to go to. there's nothing we can do about it. they need to talk to people like that. i don't think they would be casting no votes and doing what scott brown did yesterday or do what so many of my colleagues are doing on extending unemployment benefits. >> well, i wonder about that. i mean, given how the politics look to shake out and given the amount of pain that's out there, and i agree there's a tremendous disconnect what, do you think the determining factor is to get those votes and make the extension happen or to push over wall street reform over the final hurd? what do you see as the think thing that citizens can do or can happen in the next window of time that's going to make the difference on those votes? >> i think it's the president of the united states with the loudest microphone in the country saying up and saying who's side are you on, on the side of wall street banks or main street, these people that don't care about unemployment benefits or are you on the side of ohioans and virginians and montanans who have lost their jobs through no doing of their own. i think it's important the president of the united states use that is very loud microphone to say to the public, which side are you on and i think then republicans are going to not want to be on the wrong side of history like they have been so many times in the last couple of years. >> senator sherrod brown of ohio, thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thanks. >> up with me now is heather mcgee, the washington office director for dimos, a nonpartisan public policy and advocacy organization. she's been following financial reform as closely as anyone. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to talk to you but senator russ feingold. he has announced he's voting against the bill. he wrote on "huffington post" today about his opposition to it. i think there's progressives who look at senator feingold and think to themselves is, is it true what he's saying which is basically this doesn't fix the problem enough. it's going to give us false security, ergo i'm not going to vote for it. what do you think of that argument? >> i'm as cynical about the power of wall street to get around whatever regulations we try to put up, whatever fire walls we try to erect. this bill i think really passes the test of strength in two ways. first politically. for the past 30 years, the banks on wall street have been writing the laws in this town. whether it's credit card, the bankruptcy bill, whether it's the repeal of glass/steagall, every single regulation that's come down has had the real thumb print of the big lobbyists on wall street. and the major banks. so the fact that this is for the first time in really i would say since in my lifetime and in your lifetime that the bill has actually been written to protect consumers to protect investors to give shareholders a say on pay and corporate governance and actually to say, regulators hey, it's your job to rein in bank risk, no one was saying that was even possible three years ago. so i think politically, it's strong and i think we need to pass it because the alternative is to say wall street, you won yet again. >> so tell me what you think the sort of biggest victory is coming out of this piece of legislation. there's been intense hand to hand comment between dimos and a new way forward and other coalitions have done a lot of the work on this. what do you think the biggest victories are, the things you're proudest about and the biggest tarnishes on it. >> that's a great question. i can start with the consumer agency but i feel like people understand we've now got someone in washington watching out for the consumer and credit cards and mortgages and payday loans and things like that. what hasn't gotten enough attention are the structural issues that i have been working on. it's been very challenging to really go at glass zeigle and the way that will wall street operates. i didn't have a lot of optimism at all going on in this process particularly around drifts, the $600 trillion market that caused the gas price spike in 2008 that cost world hunger to spike around the world because of speculation in commodities and then of course, was at the center of the aig debacle and turned a housing crisis into a global financial crisis. that's where the money is made. $600 trillion in derivatives and we won that. we've gotten 90% of the derivatives market that's going to be not in the shadows anymore. that's amazing to me and frankly i think everyone who was looking at this bill a year ago who looked at what came out of the house, even what came out of the senate didn't think we were going to end up this strong. >> i'm going to save your worst thing about the bill till after the bill passes so we can have a conversation about what the next fight is. >> absolutely. >> great. heather mcgee, thanks so much. i really appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. all right. coming up, bp's latest fight. hurricane alex winds and waves are ripping up in the gulf and impacting clean-up. alex could hit land tonight. jeff corwin joins me live. and day three of the kagan hearings where some of the most noteworthy developments came from the questions rather than the answers. democrats using the day to lay out what's wrong with the roberts court. senator cardin joins me in a moment. all that, plus harry reid won't give up the fight and sharron angle wants to cut all unemployment benefits. shocking stuff. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. coming up, the colorado senate primary has divide bill clinton and president obama. clinton endorsing andrew romanoff against obama backed candidate michael bennett. but this is really about loyalty. clinton and romanov go way back. who is the candidate progressives should be supporting? andrew responds at the bottom of the hour. stay with us. whoo! ♪ ♪ well, if you come from the hood ♪ ♪ or ya come from the burbs ♪ got the fellas up in here tonight ♪ ♪ this is my generation ♪ my own congratulation ♪ we at the block party having fun ♪ [ dog barking ] [ sniffing ] [ male announcer ] missing something? like 2 pairs of glasses for $99.99 at sears optical, with bifocal lenses for just $25 more per pair. hurry in to sears optical today and don't miss a thing. welcome back. just moments ago, an the senate judiciary committee wrapped up its questioning of supreme court nominee elena kagan. i'll say it again, full disclosure, my wife works in the white house counsel's office. you know, republicans have a knack for taking a word and simply through incessant repetition transforming it into an insult like liberal or in the context of the court activist or hide the children, a liberal activist judge. the technical definition of an activist court is one eager to strike down or invalidate federal or state statutes if they don't jive with jurisprudence. it's a word to degrade justice who's don't do what republicans want. no one has a problem with an activist who's acting on their behalf of. the court roberts court which has overturned precedent and struck down local laws in the recent gun cases is a conservative activist court and democrats on the judiciary committee have decided to pull back the curtain. during questioning, they have been vocal about the problems with the current court particularly its consistent privileging of corporate interests over citizens interest interests. >> five conservative justices rejected the court's own precedent, rejected the bipartisan law enact bid congress, rejected 100 years of legal development, in order to open the door for massive corporate spending on elections was such a jolt to the system. >> joining me now is senator ben cardin of maryland. senator card is on the judiciary committee. senator, thanks so much for taking the time. >> my pleasure. good to be with you. >> senator, i wonder watching the hearing today, it seemed like the members of the committee were having a debate about what constitutes activism and elena kagan was kind of the reason for it. i wonder if you can give a definition of what you see as activist and whether you think it's a really relevant or clear distinction to make. >> i think my republican colleagues believe activism is when the court reaches a decision they don't like. activism is when are you creative on your law where you don't follow precedent where you use it to restrict constitutional rights for individuals, where you allow government to have more power and special interests to have more power. that's what this activist conservative court has done. by the narrowest of margins 5 oil 4, they have reversed legal precedent, have ignored congressional action. and they have restricted the rights of individuals against the abuses of government and against the abuses of special corporate interests. that's a very activist court but it's a very conservative activist court. >> i thought it was interesting because there was a very strange theme the first few days around justice thurgood marshall. you were quite spirited in defense of him. we have a piece of tape i'd like to roll and get your response to it. >> justice marshall's judicial philosophy, however is not what i would consider to be mainstream. as he once explained, you do what you think is right and let the law catch up. he might be the epitome of a results-orient the judge. >> miss kagan has associated herself with well yoen activist judges who have used their power to redefine the meaning of words of our constitution and laws in ways that not surprisingly have the result of advancing that judge's preferred social policies. and agendas. >> aside from sticking up for a local hero from baltimore, i wonder what you make of the strategic reasoning behind the republicans seeming attempts to want to kind of rewrite the history of justice marshall? >> as a senator from maryland i take this personal because as you know, justice marshall was born in baltimore. i also take it personal because bron v board of education. i attended a seg gra gatd public school in baltimore city as millions of children benefitted from his brown v. board of education successful arguing that case before the supreme court. justice thurgood marshall was one of the great americans, one of the great jurists, one of the great legal scholars and he certainly represented what mainstream america needed, and that is a person who would stick up for the rights of ordinary americans so that everyone could vance in our society. >> we finally come to a close here. i think there's been a general consensus that elena kagan has acquitted herself quite well. that quote in 1995 from the article called the proceedings vapid and hollow. how would you characterize these three days of testimony? do you feel like you got a better substantive sense? was it really a kind of debate between the members of the committee about the roberts court? >> no, i think that slistder general elena kagan really got the american people got to know her. she's a very bright person, she has a great sense of humor. she's extremely capable and she was responsive to our questions. we learned a lot about her views in education and election laws on the religion, on privacy. i thought she was very forthcoming to the committee. more so than in recent confirmation hearings and the american people know that they have a person who will give them a fair shake. she's made that a key part of her opening statement and it's something that i believe in and something we need on the supreme court. >> senator ben cardin from maryland on the senate judiciary committee, thank you so much for taking time with us tonight. >> thank you. coming up, the latest mess bp is dealing with. this one not cause bid them. hurricane alex is threatening to make it worse. nbc's science and environment expert jeff corwin joins me live from pensacola up next. ♪ [ folk rock ] - ♪ hey, what you doin' today - [ phone rings ] - [ horn honking ] - [ tires squealing ] ♪ i'm ridin' down the highway i'm just rollin' ♪ [ announcer ] without the right auto insurance, a crash might impact more than your car. 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[ cat yowls ] hurricane alex is barreling across the gulf toward mexico and south texas with winds up to 90 miles per hour. the storm is expected to hit land later today as a strong category one or even a category two hurricane. the eye of the storm is 500 miles away from the oil spill in the gulf but it is still reeking havoc on containment efforts. bp says so far, they have been able to continue work on the relief wells but 12-foot waves and 25-mile-per-hour winds have forced the coast guard to stop skimming operations as well as dispersing chemicals and conducting controlled burns of oil on the surface. rough seas are also washing up more oil on coasts as far as away as florida. joining me now live from pensacola is he nbc's jeff corwin. thanks so much. what is the latest news down there about relief efforts? >> reporter: well, chris, good afternoon to you. here i am on the lovely famous ivory white sands of pensacola beach in florida. that is the gulf of mexico behind me. now normally, chris, can you see my hand? >> yeah. >> can you see this? this is what the sand should look like. this beautiful postcard perfect sand. unfortunately, this is what it really looks like this. can you see that? >> yeah? >> >> reporter: this is what is now glazing this entire beach, chris, as far as my eyes can see for hundreds of miles along this coastline, we're seeing the kiss of death coming from the deep water horizon. and what is really spooky is just hours ago, they cleaned this beach. but unfortunately the tide's come in being pushed by that will storm surge and every time a wave laps in the sand, it brings more oil. >> jeff corwin, thank you so much. that is disturbing report from the gulf. coming up, bill clinton and president obama on different sides in the colorado senate race. the white house is quiet. clinton backed andrew romanoff joins me ahead and john boehner defends himself for his antd comment. the dnc has a new ad slamming him for it. is this the fundamentals of the economy are strong moment of 2010? plus putin rips the u.s. on the russian spy story. have i proof that oil and booze don't mix. i'll explain. you're watching "the ed show" on pl snbc. 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[ high male ] fizz, fizz. welcome back to "the ed show"". in the battleground story tonight, the clinton versus obama primary take two. well, sort of. former president bill clinton has broken with the democratic establishment including president obama in the colorado democratic primary. clinton is backing andrew romanoff over democratic senator michael bennett. in his endorsement letter, the former president wrote "we need andrew's leadership in washington especially now when so many americans are losing so much." joining me now is andrew romanoff, democratic candidate for senate in colorado. thank you so much for being on. >> thank you, chris. i appreciate it. >> mr. romanoff, i want to start by asking you is, i mean obviously the endorsement is a big deal politically and i think it comes out of a sort of personal relationship you have with president clinton. but what are the ropes that progressives should be looking to you rather than michael bennett in terms of substantive policy? where is the daylight between the two of you? >> i think the reason that so many progressives have logged on to andrew romanoff.com in the last 24 hours is because they recognize that the oil industry, the big insurance companies, the big wall street banks have enough politicians on their payroll. we need a senator for the rest of us. i'll give you a quick example. a couple weeks ago, the senate had a chance to remove $35 billion in tax breaks from the oil and gas industry and use the savings to reduce the deficit and invest in energy efficiency and conservation. my opponent voted against that plan. and rocketed to the number two spot behind blanche lincoln among senate democrats on the ballot this year as recipients of oil gans money. individual voted for the proposal to remove the tax breaks because i believe it is critical for us to accelerator our transition to a new cleaner energy economy. >> this is a bit out of left field and obviously endorsements are not reciprocal. but i was watching the financial regulation today and one of the key bills was the graham leech blil little bill which essentially revoked glass/steagall. i wonder if you think that deregulation was a mistake? >> i believe we should restore the glass/steagall wall of separation between commercial and investment banking activity. i also believe we should prevent banks from becoming too big to fail. my opponent in this race voted against a proposal to do exactly that. and now serves on the banking committee. has become one of the top ten recipients of wall street cash. if every progressive listening to this show today logged on to andrew romanoff.com, chipped in $15, $20, $25, we could beat the special interests bankrolling the opposition here. >> mr. romanoff, thank you very much. kudos for your deft insertion of your url. it was a pleasure to have you on tonight. >> i appreciate it. now let's turn to our panel for rapid fire response on these stories. you have will one more republican step up and provide some relief and desperately needed help to people whose unemployment benefits are about to run out? democrats have two and need one more but it appear anesthesia are all jim bunnings now. >> they are seizing on boehner's likening of the economic christmas to an ant to president obama hammering boehner in atown hall in wisconsin today. is this the fundamentals of our economy are strong movement 2010? and sharron angle in an interview with nevada political reporter jon ralston. she's been freshly zrubed by gop consultants and she just wants to personalize social security. will the late conversion be enough to beat harry reid. with us tonight laura flaernds host of grit tv. and tim carney, lobbying editor for the washington examiner and author of obama nom micks. thanks for both of you coming on. i'm used to being on the other side. tim, i want to go to you first. do you think, is there a real reason to block this unemployment extension? even from a very kind of bedrock libertarian perspective, do you really think the people who have exceeded the 99 weeks are doing it because of misaligned incentives as opposed to an economy that's fallen through the floor? >> one of the first things you have to remember, nancy pelosi said this democratic congress is going to pay for everything as we go and that's the roadblock that republicans are throwing in the way saying you have to pay for this. on the other end, you have paul krugman saying extended unemployment can lead to the benefits can lead to unemployment. on this particular issue, i'm not sure that the jobs are really out there and so that the insentive structure is being thrown out a lot. but it's about paying for it, and democrats are not doing that. >> i'm going to toss to laura. what do you think? >> i think you're right. nancy pelosi backed herself into a corner. what we need is a government job creation scheme. rooseveltian kind of plan. with that off the table, they're in the situation of hoping that some goper will wise up. do we really want to be defending the use of taxpayer dollars to protect banks but leak the unemployed who are unemployed through no fault of their own to fend for themselves. it's going to be an interesting midterm season if the gop continue to resist this. the painful thing is that people are hurting day by day that the struggle goes on. >> it looks like, i'm going to roll a piece of tape from sharron angle. she's backed off on other comments but does seem to be going to the mat on this unemployment issue. take a look. >> you're saying they're sitting on their couches, all spoiled, they don't want to get a job and i'm going to cut off their benefits. >> no, come on, john. >> you said they're spoiled. >> i said that it had spoiled our citizenry. that's a little different. they're not spoil. what has happened is the system of entitlement has caused us to have a spoilage with our ability to the go out and get a job. >> tim carney, we are all welfare queens now i suppose. what do you think of how spoiled we are? i personally think the military industrial complex is spoiled. what do you think? >> you know i don't get upset about regular welfare as i do about corporate welfare. >> that's why we have you on, buddy. >> if i'm angle i go after all the job killing proposals that harry reid has such as obama care and global warming stuff. so i mean, she's got to. >> don't you think this is bad -- i mean, honestly, what do you think of the politics of this? >> yeah, i don't think it's great politics. this is what happens when we get tea party candidates. it's funny how so many of the guys on the left go after rand paul and sharron angle making sure that every future republican is an establishment republican. >> that's what you're doing. >> laura, what do you think. >> this is the person, sharron angle who looks at the oil gushing off the gulf coast and says let's do away with the pe a. it's the entirely in keeping she would say the unemployed don't need help from us. >> i wonder what you think about this. anytime you start getting e-mails from the dnc about something that a republican just said, you know that everyone over there thinks they've got the political upper hand. that's the case with this ant comment from boehner. the president himself responded today which i think is a little out of ordinary. take a look at this piece of tape. >> the leader of the republicans in the house said that financial reform was like, i'm quoting here, using a nuclear weapon to target an ant. that's what he said. he compared the financial crisis to an ant. maybe i'm confused. did you think that the financial crisis was an ant and we just need a little ant swatter to fix this thing? >> tim, because you're honest, i wonder do you think boehner got it right? do you think financial reform is actually an overreaction? >> no, i think what's going on is the democrats are targeting an ant while termites are eating the house. you have goldman sachs said we will be a prime bish riff this bill. fannie mae, freddie mac completely left alone. so. >> dee they're delisted. >> so the problem here is that they are going after the ants but there are other problems going on. it's not a nuclear bomb i don't think it has a dramatic effect on any of the big banks and i think that's part of the reason why you don't see goldman, you don't see the hedge funds opposing it now that you've got the tax pulled out of it. >> i think if we're going to talk ants and nukes in our crisis right now, they've got it the wrong way around. this is like sending this financial reform while it has some good parts, it is like send agant to you know diffuse a nuke. that's the problem. >> very good. you guys both get awarded metaphor points. laura flanders of grit tv and tim carney from the washington examiner, i appreciate you guys coming on. coming up, washington has a very full plate these days. unemployment, war strategy, on going oil spill. there is something else i think needs to be back in the spotlight. that's next. lap! slap! slap! ] -ow, ow! [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium rich tums goes to work in seconds. nothing works faster. ♪ tum ta tum tum tums tonight's text survey question is, do you think senator scott brown is trying to kill financial reform? text to 622639. we'll bring you the results later in the show. dn't exist. and facebook was still run out of a dorm room. when we built our first hybrid, more people had landlines than cell phones, and gas was $1.75 a gallon. and now, while other luxury carmakers are building their first hybrids, lexus hybrids have traveled 5.5 billion miles. and that's quite a head start. ♪ [ dog barking ] [ sniffing ] [ male announcer ] missing something? like 2 pairs of glasses for $99.99 at sears optical, with bifocal lenses for just $25 more per pair. hurry in to sears optical today and don't miss a thing. ♪ well, if you come from the hood ♪ ♪ or ya come from the burbs ♪ got the fellas up in here tonight ♪ ♪ ♪ we at the block party having fun ♪ i'm friend, secret-keeper, and playmate. do you think i'd let osteoporosis slow me down? so i asked my doctor about reclast because i heard it's the only once-a-year iv osteoporosis treatment. he told me all about it and i said that's the one for nana. he said reclast can help restrengthen my bones to help make them resistant to fracture for twelve months. and reclast is approved to help protect from fracture in more places: hip, spine, even other bones. [ male announcer ] you should not take reclast if you're on zometa, have low blood calcium, kidney problems or you're pregnant, plan to become pregnant or nursing. take calcium and vitamin d daily. tell your doctor if you develop severe muscle, bone or joint pain, of if you have dental problems, as rarely jaw problems have been reported. the most common side effects include flu like symptoms, fever, muscle or joint pain, headache, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. share the world with the ones you love! and ask your doctor about reclast. or call 1-866-51-reclast. year-long protection for on-the-go women. since ed is on vacation, i'm putting a spin on his his playbook and calling it my nerd book this week. in tonight's nerd book, i'm sounding the laempl on something i think we all need to pay attention to. one out of every three homes sold in the first three months of the year from foreclosures. that's slightly down from the same quarter last year but in a normal market, the homes only make up between 1 and 2% of all sales. the scourge of foreclosures continues wreaking havoc in people's lives and blythe neighborhoods and creating massive legal inefficiencies in the housing market. there doesn't seem to be a lot of motivation in washington to put a stop to it. joining me is jim carr from national community reinvestment coalition. thanks so much for joining me. >> thanks, chris. my pleasure. >> jim, we've seen the foreclosure crisis kind of continue and continue. it's been a little off the radar screen. i want to start by asking, what grade would you give the white house, the obama administration on their foreclosure mitigation efforts? >> well, the grade i would give the program that's put into place which is the home affordable modification program, i'd have to say that program is failing the test. as of right now, there have been maybe 340,000 permanent modifications, chris. just last month alone and that's in the entire year since last march. so for a whole year about, 300 permanent modifications. >> 343, 350, that's it? not 350,000? >> 350,000. sorry. >> okay, okay. >> but last month, thank you, but last month alone, we had 322,000 foreclosures. since the beginning of this year, we've had already more than 1.6 million new foreclosures on route to 3 million this year. clearly that program is not up to par. >> we're looking at modifications happening in the neighborhood of 10% of the foreclosures that we have. >> exactly. >> so what should the president be doing? what should congress be doing if the current program that's in place to do these workouts and modifications isn't working, what is a plan for a solution that would work? >> well, chris, from the very beginning it was very clear the foreclosure crisis had a number of dynamics going on. we knew, for example, program elements such as having the program be voluntary and letting the services volunteer to participate was a problem. we had seen that all the through the bush administration. it's still a volunteer program. when the program was put into place it, didn't have penalties to actually compel the servicers who did volunteer to be in the program to actually comply to the program rules. so we've had a host of problems with compliance with the program. at the same time, the problems of foreclosure have morphed since the program was put into place. so for example, foreclosure is now driven principally by unemployment. there is no real program in place right now to deal with the unemployment components. there have been -- they've introduced some program elements. they're not fully in place yet. principal reduction has been a major issue for more than a year now. the rules and principal reductions still are not in place for the program. >> let's talk about principal reduction for a second. i want to make sure the viewers are with us. the mortgage has got the interest on the loan and the principal which is the actual value of the home that you paid for. the point is that it seems like to get to a place where it's sustainable for a lot of people to keep their homes, banks have to write down the value. that's what you mean by principal reduction. >> that's exactly correct. the fact of the matter is the banks receive hundreds of billions of dollars in bailout and the borrowers didn't. the fact of the matter is that every failed loan was was a compact between a bank or an investor and a borrower. and putting the money? on the investor side has helped the banks recover. but it hasn't done anything to stem the foreclosure crisis. so we need to address the fact that many homes are severely upside down and to make them actually affordable to the borrower, we need to reduce that principal. here's the interesting thing. in many cases chris, people col actually sustain their home, avoid foreclosure with basically a 30%, a 40% write down in the value of the loan. but instead, the servicers are allowing those loans to go to foreclosure at which point these homes are worthless than or about 40, 45% of the value. so the reality of it is that allowing consumers to modify these loans to make them affordable is actually in the best interests of the investors and that's not happening. >> last question real quick here. i guess as a practical matter what, does the president have the authority to do independent of congress on things like going after the principal or write downs or does there need to be statutory some legislation passed in congress that could make that happen? >> well, there needs to be statutory changes passed. to be fair to the white house and the president, they actually proposed one of the most powerful tools to stem this foreclosure crisis would have been to reform the nation's bankruptcy laws to allow a bankruptcy judge to weigh in and create a modification that was suitable both to the investor and the borrower. the president asked for it. congress rejected it what's interesting about that is that alone could have addressed 30% of the foreclosure crisis at absolutely zero cost to the taxpayer. instead we have these very expensive alternative approaches rather than going to bankruptcy modification and why is that? because the banks don't want it. we need to really challenge the status quo on the banking system and really put into place mechanisms to require modifications where they're in the best interests of the consumer and the investor. and to allow bankruptcy judges to weigh in, it would cost no money at all. final thing, chris, we need jobs. and laura, in your previous segment pointed out the fact that we need jobs. chris, if we don't get jobs going, we're going to see this foreclosure crisis continue and potentially expand. >> jim carr of the national community reinvestment coalition, i really appreciate you coming on tonight. >> my pleasure. a couple of final pages tonight. vladimir putin is slamming american law enforcement for breaking up that alleged russian spy ring which the "new york post" is loving where 11 suspected spies were arrested. putin brought it up with president clinton on a visit to moscow yesterday telling him have you to come to moscow at the exact right time. your police have gotten carried away, putting people in jail. putin had no specific comment on the accusations but russia has acknowledged the suspects are russian citizens. a group of progressive and environmental groups are lauchblging an ad campaign for clean energy future. the first one goes right after senator ben nelson. it's pretty shocking and funny stuff. take a look. >> we pulled one out of the water this morning. completely covered in oil. >> oh, he's covered. >> the name senator ben nelson. >> senator nelson's record is a little oily. big oil has showered him with hundreds of thousands in campaign cash. and when it came time to hold polluters accountable, senator nelson voted no. >> we're trying our best out here but until he supports clean energy climate legislation, i don't think we can save lim. >> spot was sponsored by the sierra club and others. finally here's proof oil and whiskey don't mix. british oil futures trader stephen perkins bought 7 million barrels of crude last year and single-handedly pushed crude prices up 20%. the problem, he did it during a drunken bing where he was reportedly blacked out trading from home. the financial services authority barred him from the securities business for at least five years. i've heard good storiesers about drunk people but this might be the best. finally we have a winner on wall street today. team usa star landon donovan and his coach bob bradley rang the clothes bell at the new york stock exchange. sell scored three of team usa's five goals including the goal heard round the world against algeria. sharron angle finally met the real press. she said something dumb. she wants to cut unemployment benefits. i think she speaks for a lot of people that agree with that, which is scary. katrina vanden heuvel joins me on that next. and our special fiber helps our probiotics so that you can show those symptoms who's in charge. this isn't even floor. [ elevator bell dings ] this isn't even band now we're insuring overts do18 million drivers. gecko: quite impressive, yeah. boss: come a long way, that's for sure. and so have you since you started working here way back when. gecko: ah, i still have nightmares. anncr: geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. like 100% whole grain, the way triscuit does, you always end up with something delicious. ♪ triscuit. weave some goodness. senate republicans have successfully blocked the extension of unemployment benefits time and time again as we have been discussing on this show. but senate majority leader harry reid is still trying to get it done. today he acknowledged he may not have the votes to get a bill through before the july 4th recess. reid's opponent this november, sharron angle provided her take on unemployment benefits. >> system of entitlement has caused us to -- to have a spoilage with our ability to go out and get a job because they have to enter at a lower grade and they cannot keep their unemployment. they have to make a choice now. we're making them make a choice between unemployment benefits and going back to work. what we need to do is make that unemployment benefit go down, not just completely remove the safety net from them while they go out and go to work. >> hear that, folks. go out and get those crappy jobs and make her happy. she's making it clear if she gets to washington, she will be in lock step with her republican colleagues and giving voice to what they really want to say. joining me is catrin that vannen hufl, editor of the nation. the woman who keeps me from joining the ranks of the unemployed. >> grill away, chris. don't ask for a raise. >> i'm going to grill you tonight, boss. you know, i wonder what you think the tipping point is going to be on this. it's gotten to this point where i don't think -- i didn't think it would have gotten to the point that they think they can manage this politically stonewalling this. i wonder what you think could be the tipping point. i asked senator brown that earlier. >> i mean, i think we have a jobs crisis, not a deficit crisis in this country. it's unusual to see someone like angle who is incoherent as well as heartless. she should speak to one of the 300,000 teaches who have gotten a pink slip or one of the more than a million losing unemployment benefits and cobra health coverage. i think part of the problem, chris, is too many of the elites, too much of the establishment media, too many of the pundits bought into this line that debt and deficits are the greatest fear we have. so we have a political debate that is more about posturing and pandering than about the fact that the greatest threat to our economy is unemployment and the failure to rebuild our states and cities. so i think we need a new debate in this country but we need to understand that there are lives in the balance. >> yeah, the matthau refer to annie loury, a fantastic writer calculated out how much the unemployment bill would add to the debt. i sort of stopped breathing after like nine or ten zeros after the decimal. >> but chris, the key thing is we need in the short term to spend. and we spend in a productive way. we spend to invest in the future of this country and the future of our children. and the future of our safety and the future of health and the well-being of this nation. what is truly scary as well is that the whole world is now on then austerity kick. we saw this at the end of the 1930s but it is more dangerous today because at least then for better or worse the europeans were building to fight world war ii. today the entire world is withdraw interesting stimulus. that is going to be on the backs of working people around the world in this country. so i think we need to fight hard. the good news, chris, i met with someone this afternoon how wrote about for the nation, george gail, national people's action. there are groups coming together street heat, but also popular mobilization, working inside and outside, la raza, naacp, sciu, center for community change others are mobilizing in october for a march for jobs. there needs to be attention paid and our president today in wisconsin, he speaks well. we've got to hold him accountable. he said the greatest danger is that we don't reverse the damage of this great recession. we've got to put people back to work. let's hold him to that. >> i thought the rhetoric today in racine was really good. >> very good. >> in those environments when he's being combative and putting out where the obstacles are, it's worth remembering, i'm interested about the mobilization around jobs. i think you're right there has to be pressure put. part of it is that the unemployed i think are even though they constitute such a large percentage of the populace at this point still are marginalized by this notion we've had for 20 or 30 years that there is something kind of indolend. >> you heard it from sharron angle. it was heartless, it was wrong. the greatness of this country is giving people an opportunity to move through the mobility is dying, chris, as you know. it was interesting in racine where obama was asked about mortgages and your previous guest was so right. if we don't get jobs right it, metastasizes through our society. about education and access to education about, what we can do to build our infrastructure. and you know, president obama responded wisely but he needs to respond to the urgency of this moment because we do need to understand that the health of this country, the pew study came out yesterday and said of the 13 recessions this country has faced, none since the great depression have been of the breadth, depth and length so punishing in that you have troy ca. >> on that note, i'm going to say good-bye to our fearless leader at the nation, katrina vannen hufl. >> tonight we asked you, do you think you senator scott brown is trying to kill financial reform. 97% say yes, 3%