-- i know you'll say. what i'm saying is, should we be anxious about the culture of number 10 at the time? >> i think there clearly were things that went wrong, that's why the pm overhauled of the operation at a number 10 downing street. it's well-known the individuals that come in, and the individuals -- some of them have left. and that's because he takes it so seersucker seriously. my experiencing this across government, and government gets things wrong, and civil sir. if you're asking me, what i saw during the pandemic. huge number of people working incredibly long hours under incredible pressure to do the right thing. >> just before i let you go. from friday, if you had a cough or a cold, or the symptoms that were flu like. would you test for covid? >> me personally, i would take a judgment call on where i was going. and i think that's the common sense, and the process of getting back to living with covid. and us taking responsibility.