the other republican senators there, whether it's romney, collins, gardner, tillis, could you see a scenario where four republican votes emerge on the rules of a trial? >> i suppose you could see that. i think the big challenge is what intervening factors between now and when a vote on the rules of the trial happen that would impact the thinking of the four members of the senate. you mentioned potentially others like rob portman, who might be in that next traunch of republican senators who would want to have a fair trial. what's going to change their minds between now and the actual vote? it's not clear to me that either nancy pelosi or chuck schumer has something up their sleeves that's going to change anyone's minds. you have the reality that pelosi is holding the articles of impeachment from the senate with no real sort of end game in terms of what may happen because mcconnell has been very clear. obviously, we can all talk about