i don't know the identity of the whistle-blower. i just hear it's a partisan person, meaning it comes out from another party. but i don't have any idea, but i can say that it was a totally appropriate conversation. it was actually a beautiful conversation. >> so there's that. multiple reports now that president trump urged the leader of ukraine to investigate joe biden's son while perhaps holding u.s. assistance in the balance during a call between the two leaders, apparently overheard, the issue apparently at the center of this new whistle-blower complaint that has taken washington by storm. we have two very special guests here with us tonight to talk about it. jon meacham, pulitzer prize-winning author and