>> exactly right. so, we will see lots of conventional -- but the risk of more unconventional, whether the chemical, whether the bio, or even nuclear -- that risk must be higher. the comeback to putin does not have many military options. and they're there for his options to escalate or an hour. >> and of course, this has an impact on how the west responds. >> it does. lewis has got a challenge. it has got to strike a balance between trying to deter beefy of your without excessively escalating. so, this is a really difficult tightrope to walk. but we have to be strong. we have to be resolute. putin does not respect weakness. he sees us as. week he sees us as decadent. he knows every time he pushes us, we take a step back. so, he would've been surprised by the overwhelmingly strong