right. they'll feel that pain, but the flip side is because they're so well integrated, because we and europe in particular do still depend on certain exports of theirs, particularly oil and gas, right, but steel, nickel, aluminum, these are things that if they're completely cut off, which they would be by sanctioning the central bank or by cutting them off from s.w.i.f.t., we're going to see those global markets, the price for those skyrocket. and everyone is going to be angry about that. we have to be very careful and deliberate and strategic in how these sanction rgs deployed with maximum effect but without too much blowback. >> ashley, that was the part of the conversation yesterday, the idea that biden wouldn't say they were going to go after putin himself, he didn't take that off the table, other options that hagar just talked about. so today, right now, inside the situation room as he's talking to members of nato, many of whom