Transcripts For MSNBC NOW With Alex Wagner 20131008

Congressman Nick Mulvaney cut his own slice. The wild theory is that even if the u. S. Breaches the debt ceiling the treasury could continue to prioritize certain payments including social security. Its a line of logic refuted by cannot mists and most people with a general understanding of the way things work. Last week the Treasury Department learned default would lead to the events of the magnitude of late 2008 or worse. Credit markets could freeze, the value of the dollar could plummet, u. S. Interest rates could skyrocket, negative could spill around the world. Cost in 20111 million jobs and 19 billion in borrowing costs. What do actual economists know about this stuff . Apparently a lot. Said former staff director of the budget committee, i donten any serious person who doesnt think this will be cataclysmic. Dont blame numbers crunchers saying default is a good thing for the economy, according to the leadership, it is the democrats who are being reckless. By refusing to negotiate, harry reid and the president are putting our country on a pretty dangerous path. Whether its on the governments funding or the debt limit, people expect to have negotiations when there are two differing sides. The president is expected to make a statement at 2 00 p. M. In response to the latest overtures from the gop. Joining me today Washington Bureau chief of mother jones david corrin, columnist for Bloomberg View margaret carlson. Also joining us from washington nbc news political director and chief White House Correspondent chuck todd. Chuck, as always, thank you for joining us. I want to go to you first in terms of this news that the president will be making a statement at 2 00 p. M. What that is about . Is the white house concerned some talking points from the right that the white house refuses to negotiate is hurting the white house in their argument . They would claim no. Clearly you heard a little shift in tone from the president yesterday. Each day of the shutdown, if youve noticed, theres been a way the white house has tried to have an opportunity for the president to speak on camera. Some of it has been impromptu, like when he walked to lunch but took questions, something he doesnt normally do. That was the way they decided to do it. Yesterday was fema. Today its a news conference. So i think this is more of the president getting his perspective out today in front of cameras, so the form they have chosen is this news conference. They keep sending this message. They did it pretty subtly yesterday. Im guessing not so subtle today, which is simply telling boehner if you simply pass a clean they will accept anything that gets to their desk thats clean, no matter the duration. Hint hint Speaker Boehner. If you want to do this in five weeks, a fiveweek window here to force negotiations, so you can say you got the president to negotiate, as long as you pass the clean temporary clean funding bill and debt ceiling height for even a small period of time, hell sign it. The white house spent all day yesterday throwing out these hints in various ways. I suspect were going to hear the president in some ways say the same thing. So im sort of befuddled here. I think boehner has a way out if he wants to take this. Thats the big question. I dont know if he wants to take it or if he can. Thats the point. Right, david . We dont know if boehner whether boehner feels like he can put an end to this or whether there needs to be a d fault on our debt. We dont know if hes driving the car. The car up to now has been hijacked by 30 or 40 tea partiers in the house, ted cruz in the senate. And dont forget koch brother stoked right wing groups for the past months spending tens of millions of dollars. They have all come in and taken away John Boehners speakership for him. Incredibly shrinking shership. Back in 2011 when they were going through debt ceiling negotiation one of obamas red line was we wont do shortterm extension, i wont go through this in six weeks or six months. Now gene spurling is out there saying, hey, lets not go over the cliff. Lets do something temporary that we can talk about in the long run thats giving in a little bit but not on the substance. Howard, reason here may have exited the room. Clearly. Its not even in the city. You have republicans in the house arguing about whether a default would be that bad for the country. You have Speaker Boehner almost powerless in the face of that. Eric ericson arguing we need to stick to our guns funding obama care. None of this, shutdown, prospect of full faith and credit of the United States being thrown into the red zone seems to be enough to get them to the table. You said logic left the room, its been replaced by religious fervor, the only way i can put it. The more they are criticized, the more correct, heroic and saintly they think they are. In Speaker Boehners case, i know from talking to his people long ago, and he said publicly months ago that he didnt want to do either of these things. He didnt want to attach obama care to the spending bill. He didnt want to threaten another default on the debt ceiling. But here he is being forced into a situation where he has to do both. Thats because the motive power in his party from the outside money and more important their thinking is the more trouble we cause and the more criticism we face, the more proof it is that our cause is just. Its very difficult to negotiate with people who believe they are about to become martyrs. Joan of arc syndrome. They want to do it. Thats the scary part here. With republicans, the degree to which they were itching to shut the government down was kind of fright think. The word was used again and again once it happened how excited they were. They had gotten their goal. So the substance almost doesnt matter if you can just have the driverless car. And the frightening thing about republicans is that no one is in charge. Thats the scary part. Not the extremist necessarily, certainly not john boehner. Remember the indiana congressman last week who said weve been disrespected but we dont know what we want. Certainly not a theory, too, okay, you give them a shutdown and then you dont have default. You try to gain the system out. It seems like they just want the whole ball of wax. They want the chaos. You had these people on early in the show, we dont believe in default the way they dont believe in Global Warming and evolution. The tea party is not just the republicans burden and not just john boehner. The american peoples burden. Its everybodys burden and they made themselves president obamas burden. Its almost as though they are in a situation of demanding that he somehow rescue them from the position they have gotten into. Chuck, i want to ask you, the republicans if they have done anything sort of together and in line, it is passing these mini funding bills. That effort continues on today. Democrats havent seemed to use the legislative toolbox but now Hearing Senate democrats are moving forward with the effort to pass a clean debt krilg lift basic lip. How effective do you think that will be in terms of changing the dynamics and putting pressure on boehner to deal with the bill in the house. Depends what it is. Harry reids challenge, he wants a clean one. He wants it to the end of 2014. Doing that clean and keeping democrats together, frankly thats not joe manchin, thats not easy either. I thought one way this could get resolved, does reid come up with a way that is a clean debt ceiling lift that isnt as long as what they have leaked out but is an attempt to get a dozen republicans on board,right, so you create this isnt just about seeing if you can get passed the 60 votes and pass it in a partisan way but are you able to get the Senate Republicans to send the message they have been quietly sending. These are Senate Republicans not named ted cruz, by the way. The majority of these Senate Republicans who have quietly been sending the signal and some not so quiet they think this is a fools errand, all these tactics have back fired, none of them are working, does harry reid use his bill as a way to give some of these Senate Republicans to publicly join and then basically jam boehner that way, send the message to boehner that way and in a weird way help boehner out, same with the fiscal cliff deal. Look, that got half the Senate Republicans, what am i supposed to do. Weve bought to go with this. It might keep the base at bay. I dont know if that works. Let me ask you, does all this talk coming out of the house maybe it wouldnt be so bad to default, does that push moderates to link arms and pass that bill . One would think outside pressure from wall street and donors hearing the rhetoric that they are would maybe push the moderates to action. Can i just say this has been the assumption for three years and hasnt really worked. The chamber of commerce and Business Community doesnt have the influence inside the Republican Party that it used to. What boehner is trying to do in a weird way, hes trying to paper over what is could be an explosive rift inside the party. Everybody is like is this about boehner saving his job . No, this is about boehner worried the entire thing comes apart, open warfare, a tea Party Grassroots movement to split off from the republicans they dont trust. Thats what boehner fears, thats what mcconnell fierce and what some of these Senate Republicans fear. The linchpin to the strategy chuck is talking about is mitch mcconnell. Who . Hes essentially the republican leader in the senate. Hes got, as everybody knows, hes got his own problems with the tea party. Hes in a sort of uncomfortable alliance of convenience with senator rand paul right now who could sort of pull the plug on mcconnell any moment if he wanted to. So mcconnell is not going to give the all clear signal to those moderate republicans to do what chuck is suggesting. Mcconnell is not going to take that step. It will cost him his job. All comes back to kentucky. I overanalyze things that way. Chuck, dont you think eventually this thing doesnt get resolved unless boehner at some point says no to the 30 or 40 house members who do want to go over the cliff. Its never going to happen. If he doesnt say that, these guys will not accept yes for an answer. I think thats right. Boehner has tried out different last week i thought one of the most overlooked statements mcconnell made was when he came out of the white house meeting, he didnt appear on camera with boehner, he did an interview on cnbc, he started promoting, hey, are you aware Government Spending is at its lowest levels. Sound like talking points obama uses. Trying to sell republicans that, hey, keeping spending levels they got democrats to agree to is a win. No victory. Its not working. Thats the problem. Alex, you identified it. Eric ericson is not going to accept a compromise. I dont think special interest groups, Heritage Action for growth, are going to accept any sort of compromise that comes out of this, anything that isnt total surrender by the president on health care or total surrender by the president on other issues. We know where the president is on this and we know where harry reid is on this. I agree with you, david, i think the only way out for boehner is its not going to happen, weve got to keep the government going. Thats why i assumed this idea of temporary shortterm basically putting off, kicking the can down the road two months which the white house is screaming at the top of our lungs to john boehner, do it. Well lock ourselves in a room. Margaret, we often wonder about boehner psychology, ill play armchair psychology, the only thing that makes sense in his behavior is what chuck alluded to earlier, this is a historic moment in the Republican Party and hes the only thing sewing together these disparate halves. Hes super glue. He said friday there wont be a default expanded ground beyond budgets and obama care. I thought, okay, hes going to play on the ground in which he can declare victory and tea party will as well. But they will not accept a victory. On sunday he said we are going to default. He switched back. They got to him on saturday. How dare you claim that weve won the spending fight. No, we want to fight another day. They want the fight. They love the fight. As you point out, chuck, the Senate Taking 988 billion funding, those are republican levels, those are close to the original paul ryan plan than they are to anything the president has proposed or even the senate. And alex, lets remember there is an ideology here that i think that howard pointed out is being clung to in a religious way, which is theres a core element of the Tea Party Caucus inside the Republican Party that simply wants to shrink government whatever means necessary that does it. Not raising debt ceiling, these guys think, fine, pay the debt down, pull back on benefits by 200 million to cut the gap on an annual basis. They dont care on that because ultimately their ultimate goal is to do what . Shrink the size of the federal government. Thats really what this core fight is about. They lost this leverage and high ground on this when they tried to make it go after Health Care First and this. They have been very muddled in what they want. Emulsioned is, in order, the name of the game. Nbc news political director thank you for your time and thoughts. Of course. You can catch chuck every weekday on the daily rundown on msnbc. After the break, new poll numbers confirm what many of us already suspected. Republicans love a Good Government conspiracy. We will talk a third obama term and the conspiracy to enslave americans through currency manipulation. That is all real next on now. [ male announcer ] if youre a rinse user, you may have heard theres a new rinse that talks about protecting, even after eating and drinking. Crest prohealth has always done that. Its clinically proven to fight plaque and gingivitis. Rinsing with prohealth after brushing can take your oral health to a new level. Now thats the new you need. Right from the beginning i could really feel it changing something for the better. I know theres been an improvement. My pearly whites, they feel really good. [ male announcer ] go pro. With the brand you can trust, crest prohealth. You really love, what would you do . [ woman ] id be a writer. [ man ] id be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] id be an architect. What if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you . When you think about it, isnt that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love . Exceptional, exceptionally prone to conspiracy theories. A month after Sandra Day Oconnor lamented the alarming degree of public ignorance in this country we got another taste with the release of ppps Second Annual Conspiracy Theory poll. In it we learned 17 of americans and 27 of republicans believe that world bankers are slowly eliminating Paper Currency so they can then cut off the power grid depriving americans access to their money and forcing them into worldwide slavery. That is nearly onethird of the gop that believes that. Onequarter of americans, including 44 of republicans believe that president obama is secretly trying to figure out a way to stay in office past 2017, probably because 2013 that been so much fun for him. In news that should surprise no one 36 of respondents including 62 of republicans, 62, think president obama is trying to take their guns away despite the lessons of newtown proving the exact opposite. As to the ever present threat of the muslim state, 42 of republicans think muslims are covertly implementing sharia law in american courts. Where is this baseless fear coming from . Quite possibly republican leaders. Every gop with the exception of mitt romney espoused sharia law rhetoric on the campaign trail. This summer North Carolina became the seventh red state to ban the phantom menace. Democrats may not be immune to the nonsense but a tenuous grasp on reality is a hall mark of the right. A recent group of reporters conducted by James Carville found just how deep the disdain is for president obama among the base of this party. Among the reports, key findings, conservatives think they are losing ground and president obama has won on a socialist agenda. They are very conscious of being white in a country that is increasingly minority. The problem in d. C. Is not gridlock. Obama has won. The problem is republicans failing to stop him. The findings prompted Andrew Sullivan to lament the right return of the party attempting to rationalize the irrational sullivan opined i see no way to integrate groups into broader body politic or conversion. Their alienation is so deep its close to unbridgeable. 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Flexpen® is insulin delivery my way. Covered by most insurance plans, including medicare. Ask your Health Care Provider about levemir® flexpen today. This morning the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in a case that could open the flood gates of Campaign Donations. At stake mccutchen versus fec is the total amount an individual can donate in an election cycle. Currently they can give 2600 to each candidate but only until they give a total of 48,600. The case challenges that cap, they should give the 2600 maximum to as many candidates as he or she wants. The problem is wealthy individuals could give massive donations that could be filtered to various campaigns around the country. An individual could give up to 3. 5 million to politicians and Political Parties. This would dramatically raise the cost of access to elected officials silencing the voices of millions of average americans and giving a few wealthy donors unprecedented influence over legislators. Joining us from outside the Supreme Court is nbc justice correspondent pete williams. Pete, thanks for joining us. What is the argument from each side and what was the response from the justices today . Well, the argument for people who support these limits is just as youve laid it out. Without them people could basically overcome the individual limit, which is intended to prevent corruption and candidates would be so beholden to a few wealthy individuals who would end up financing the bulk of campaigns. The other side here, though, the people who are challenging these limits say, in fact, there already are checks in place that the parties and the other committees can give only so much money to candidates. By the way, some of the conservatives on the court here say thats not an argument for keeping limits. Right now an individual can give as much money as he or she wants to a pack and the pack can give lots of money to lots of different candidates. The people would know who that money is coming from. In any event, i think whats going to happen here, a part of these aggregate limits does seem to be doomed here. Thats the limit that says you can only give 48,600 to all candidates put together. The chief justice is probably the controlling vote here. What he seems to say, doesnt make sense, can give the maximum amount to nine but cant give maximum amount to ten candidates. That doesnt make any sense of the other thing he says, suppose a person feels very strongly about wanting to support candidates who favor environmental regulation and gun control, he said they sort of have to decide which they are going to support. They shouldnt have to do that. A restriction on free speech which said in previous Supreme Court money is. There dont seem to be five votes to strike down other limits challenged here on how much money in total you can give to Political Parties and pacs and other candidate committees. Those probably will survive. There dont seem to be five votes either for what supporters of Campaign Finance would consider doomsday scenario where the Supreme Court goes all the way and says, okay, were going to strike down all the limits on contributions together. That was always at play in this case any time the Supreme Court looks at this issue, that is always a potential that could happen. Unless something happens between now and when this decision comes out, i dont think theres five votes to go that far. David cornyn here. David, as pete notes, its not that the Supreme Court is necessarily going to strike down all Campaign Donation limitations but certainly in the way that Citizens United dramatically changed the landscape, i think we can see the decisions the court handed down thus far on donation limits have really changed the field of play. I would ask pete this, one of the Core Principles of our Campaign Finance laws that came out after watergate was to limit any one individuals influence. We dont want a system when millionaires and billionaires could have outsized influence more than anybody else even though there are free speech issues here. Im wondering if that core issue got discussed much from either side today as they went through some of these technical arguments. Absolutely. Members of the courts liberal wing are very concerned about that, Justice Briar and Justice Ginsburg saying you have a problem here if Justice Ginsburg if the super affluent end up influencing campaigns and other people do not have a voice. Other people will say whats the point of participating in politics anymore if my voice doesnt count. But i think for the majority of the court, the issue, legal hinge are corruption. Supreme court upheld limits on contributions on the theory if you can give unlimited amounts of money directly to a candidate, you buy the candidate, you get corruption, you get something for your money. What the court seems to say here, though, is you dont have that same problem if youre giving the maximum to lots of different candidates. The governments claim here is if you can do that, you can give to candidate committees and that money can get funneled back. In other words, you can circumvent the individual contribution limits. Indeed. Thats been the distinction. Nbc justice correspondent pete williams, thank you for the latest. You bet. After the break latest u. S. Raids in somalia highlight the war on terror, the new front in failed states when New York Times Mark Mazzetti joins us coming up on now. dad just feather it out. Thats right. son ok. Feather it out. dad all right. Thats ok. dad put it in second, put it in second. dad slow it down. Put the clutch in, break it, break it. dad just like i showed you. Dad, you didnt show me, you showed him. 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We took care of your cold symptoms. You take him on an adventure. Tylenol® has been the number 1 doctor recommended brand of pain reliever for over 20 years. But for everything we do, we know you do so much more. Tylenol®. Two counterterror raids over the weekend in libya and somalia, one successful, one not have people wondering if they are shifting from drone strikes and over to ground operations and special forces. In somalia the navys stored s. E. A. L. Team six was forced away. A deadly siege on a Shopping Mall in nairobi. In Libya Special forces got their prize, long sought in connection to the u. S. Embassy bombings in kenya and tanzania. Al libi who has yet to be red his miranda rights is detained offshore aboard uss san antonio. Hes likely to be brought back to the u. S. To stand trial and currently faces charges in new york city. A new focus on capturing rather than eliminating terrorist leaders was broadcast by obama. America does not take strikes when we have a chance to take individual terrorist. Our purpose is always to detain, interrogate, prosecutor. Mark mazzetti, author of a cia, the war at the end of the earth. Thanks for joining us. Your thought about these two raids in the last week and what that means measurably in terms of u. S. Counterterrorism strategy. Partly i think although they happen on the same day they have to be looked at separately. Somalia is this case where the u. S. Is still going to be loathe to do a lot of boots on the ground operation just because of the risk involved. Since 9 11 they have really avoided having american Ground Troops in somalia because of the history there with the United States and somalia but also because the intelligence is so bad. So i wouldnt expect to see dozens of these or a whole lot of u. S. Counterterrorism operations in somalia. In the libya cases, its quite interesting because there is a government the u. S. Deals with. It does signal that, you know, after the arab spring, with all of these authoritarian governments being toppled in north africa, the u. S. Has sort of become more concerned about the terrorism problem in places like libya, tunisia and egypt. So i think its fascinating and extraordinary these two separate things happen on the same day. When you talk about the libya piece, the Libyan Government is now asking the u. S. Ambassador to explain what happened. Any time you sort of have an american operations an american operative on the ground doing anything, it is risk, as you point out. The question, i guess, is how does the u. S. Tactically use these folks in a way that is both there is coverage and at the same time the host country is not alienated in the same way the libyans appear to be today. Well, what the United States tended to do in the last decade, if they want to do an operation in a country where the u. S. Is not officially at war, they put them under cia authority. For instance in the bin laden raid in 2011, they sent s. E. A. L. S in and didnt ask pakistani position but did it under cia authority. The really interesting case in libya, if it is under military authority and libyans didnt know anything about it, then it really would be an extraordinary precedent. Somalia, again, the case is theres never really been a fully functioning government to deal with so the u. S. Interpreted that as sort of they have cart blanche in the country to operate because of its status as a socalled failed state. Its a casebycase basis. It does show here we are 12 years after 9 11 and the military and the cia do interpret these authorities pretty broadly. Your point about failed states, we are conducting drone operations, iraq, not iraq, afghanistan, iraq but certainly doing those things there as well but were talking about north africa, were talking bought mali, al qaeda in northwest africa, algeria, libya, al shabaab operation am in Eastern Africa and somalia and kenya, sharia in northwest and northern africa, mahli, tunisia, libya. Africa is now the new front in the war on terror. I go back to this piece in the atlantic explaining why africa is a good host, if you will, for this kind of islamic terrorism. Islamists are able to take advantage of the fact many of the continents countries have porous borders weak and corrupt governments, undertrained and underequipped mirlts, flourishing drug trades, vast space difficult to mount counterterror efforts even if the war wary Obama Administration chose to do so. What the Obama Administration faces is how deep do they want to get into africa with all of the factors you discuss. They can do these discreet types of operations but the real question is do they want to launch operations across north africa because there are militants or suspected militants, or do they let other countries do it or do they have to narrow the scope. For instance, in smol yaromalian feeling al shabaab is a regional issue, not worth risking troops because they havent attacked United States. The attack a few weeks ago changed that calculation. This is what they have to figure out. Do they want to go to war everywhere or narrow, tailor operations to who the u. S. Is really worried about. Behavior and policy stance on syria would seem to suggest administration doesnt want to get involved any place over there if it doesnt have to. New york times Mark Mazzetti, thank you for your time. Wendy davis highlights Hard Scrabble bioin a campaign ad but a thing shes not mentioning that has some people talking. We will talk lone star politics and other crucial races just ahead. Check it out. 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Find out more at aflac. Com. One of the former state commerce secretary Corporate Executive and millionaire, another is a guy who ended collective bargaining for his states workers. We will preview the very interesting wisconsin Gubernatorial Race next. [ male announcer ] when you have sinus pressure and pain, you feel. Squeezed. Congested. Beat down. Crushed. As if the weight of the world is resting on your face. But sudafed gives you maximum strength sinus pressure and pain relief. So you feel free. Liberated. Released. Decongested. Open for business. [ inhales, exhales ] [ male announcer ] powerful sinus relief from the 1 pharmacist recommended brand. Sudafed. Open up. As washington acts out its on apocalypse now theres some glimmers of humanity. Governor scott walker finally got a challenger when mary burk bicycle executive announced her candidacy. While burke is a millionaire she will need all the help she can get. Survived a recall unprecedented 13 million twothirds of which came from out of state. Margaret, we talk a lot about scott walker. A lot of people think he may end up being a president ial nominee in 2016. At this appoint, where do you put mary burkes prospects . I put walker in the what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. He got his bad stuff out of the way and then survived the recall. She is a really attractive candidate. If anybody could do it, shes the kind of fresh face, you know, entrepreneur, has her own money candidate. However, i hate to disappoint you, but i think its uphill. I think he has solidified his popularity. He has a tremendous amount of national support. I wrote a piece about republicans in the Senate Maneuvering for the 2016 nomination. The smart people saying doesnt run out of Congress Look to conservatives. Shrewd conservative activists looking to governors like scott walker as potential standard bearers in 2016. Hes very popular out there. Hes become a National Icon thats howette 13 million out of the state. Im biased because i own a bicycle and like it a lot. Shes pro bike. Someone that can talk about jobs and growing a family from a Family Business to a global bike powerhouse, shes probably about the best bet the democrats could put up against scott walker. Its a lot of women democratic challengers around the country. Speaking of which wendy davis released her first adin her texas run for governor and features her daughter. My mom started out like many folks do, in a tough spot. She was raised by a single mother with a sixth grade education. She married young and by 19 was divorced and raising me as a single mother. Wendy davis setting aside the pink mizunos filibuster, remember record on reproductive rights, which may not help her in tech, has an incredible personal story. We dont know that much about her as a candidate. I ask you, wendy davis focus on background, by okay, Hard Scrabble economics and not talk so much about abortion and reproductive freedom. Thats not a broadening issue to run on. I hate to be debbie downer, whacking you really hard, in a few years as texas population changes, a democrat like wendy davis is going to have a better chance. I think now, especially since her signature issue, if she can broaden out, that one issue, nobody likes to run on a single issue. And abortion, even if youre prochoice, it is not for the prochoicers the totally animating issue that youre going to vote on. Although it is. 63 of registered voters think the Lone Star State already has enough antiabortion laws on the books. What tech has done to restrict reproductive freedoms is not your runofthemill legislation. One thing she has going for her, shes made a name. Shes now a character, an icon, a public figure. So probably polarizing in certain ways but she has a lot of Good Campaign skills. Ann richards managed one back a few decades ago when texas was a little different, a few democrats would win statewide elections. It really is uphill. The castro brothers have a blue state project but may be more like an eight, twelve year program than anything in the next two years. The democrats, even though they may not win the state house in texas, governorship in texas this way, all these very attractive, interesting populiststyle and busy savvy women candidates help them nationally. It helps the National Brand even more and creates an even bigger problem for the republicans who have huge demographic issues to deal with. Wendy davis may not win texas but she may help the democrats win the 2016. She and mary burke are great faces to have on the up and coming democratic party. Speaking of women in the Republican Partys problem with them. Our favorite woman. And divisive social issues, a new outside ad is attacking wyoming Senate Candidate liz cheney for not being sufficiently antigay. It features a clip from liz cheney appearing on msnbc in 2009. In wyoming cheney campaigns as a conservative. In washington she appears on msnbc to campaign against the marriage amendment and support government benefits for gay couples. I applaud, for example, the state Department Decision to extend benefits to same sex partners around the world. Msnbc, nail in the coffin. This is mike enzy, the sitting senator announcing directly or indirectly were going to play cuff here. You want to come in and tell me im not a conservative, okay, this is going to be tougher than you might think. She has a gay sister. For the record, i love my sister but she is dead wrong on the issue of marriage. This is their version of f t fratricide. Attacking her on the right is a smart thing to do. It is. She came out and said she disagreed with gay marriage with her sister. Her sister posted a facebook thing saying i love my sister but shes wrong. Cheney parents in favor of gay marriage. Now shes being attacked for being soft on gay marriage. At the same time blood feuds between the cheneys, simpson and his wife. This is becoming dallas in wyoming. Margaret, as we saw the schism, i think youre right, you want to play hardball, lets play hardball, this is terrible idea on marriage equality. Maybe not in wyoming but like todd aiken, a legitimate rape. Forces a conversation. Its such an interesting one causes brother versus brother, sister versus sister in wyoming. You have her making every clumsy mistake to people in wyoming who dont want a republican from mclane, virginia coming in and getting hunting licenses and forcing herself on the Community Just for her own political purposes. And that enzi, who is the kind of republican that you want in the senate. He seems reasonable. Has he a pretty conservative record. Theres a problem there. Hes an accountant. He has a green eye shade on . We cant have those. Thats what im saying. You want that kind of pocket protector sort of guy. Shes trying to coin from a tea Party Perspective on a guy who wouldnt get a tea party challenge. Talk about the National Brand, i think its great. Any time he gets out there and reminds the public of cheney in any way, thats not good for the Republican Party. Howard. Enzi having been threatened, having been a pocket protector accountant stair at his own shoes kind of guy, moderate oldfashioned republican is challenged and fighting back the challenge from the right. Last month at a big conservative conference in new york that he never in the old days would have shown up at. He came to say, hey, i want you support. Again, it shows the power of the tea party which basically now enzi and liz cheney are going to fight for support of prosecu. I wonder if in any way dick cheney and the brand are cowed by the potential defeat of his daughter in the senate race that stoked a lot of flames in the party. Does dick cheney feel bad at the end of the day . I dont think hes capable of feeling bad. He started a war. Your kids are always fighting about something. I wonder how much he really encouraged her to do this. I know cheney a bit. Im not entirely sure. Well see. Okay. If father knows best. We know he doesnt know best. Thank you to david howard and margaret. That is all for now. Ill see you you back at noon eastern when im joined by michael steele, ezra klein, aclu and vogues editoratlarge. Andrea mitchell reports is next. A reminder to stay with msnbc for full coverage of the president s statement at 2 00 p. M. Today. Unfortunately the southeast, were still lingering with rain and wind and clouds. There could be minor travel inconvenience there. Middle of the country looks great. Pacific northwest just some showers. 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