Transcripts For MSNBC NOW With Alex Wagner 20130124

Open layup. It is thursday, january 24th, and this is now. Joining me today assistant managing editor of Fortune Magazine lee gallagher, and New York Times columnist frank brunhy. This morning senator john kerry spent an hour on the other side of the panel he chairs. The Senate Foreign relations committee. In his confirmation hearing for swuf state, kerry sat in the same room where a day before the committee grilled secretary of state Hillary Clinton about benghazi. Kerry didnt exactly face the same firepower. I look at you in being nominated for this as someone who has almost lived their entire life, if you will, for this moment of being able to serve in this capacity. Xhind his nomination to you without reservation. Ill have some questions later on policies and your views, including how you explain to World Leaders how you could have been rooting for the Boston Red Sox instead of what the world knows as the yankees as the team of the world. I dont want this to affect your questions, i have never seen a better looking and distinguished group of Public Officials in my life. Clintons five and a half hour questioning on benghazi was slightly more hostile. Though she agreed to implement all 29 recommendations and the accountability ae view board, the majority of which will be in place by march, she with stood sharp questions about her character and her conduct. Madam secretary, you let the consulate become a death trap, and thats National Security malpractice. When you have a United States ambassador personally warning about the situation over there, send this cable to your office if i could. One point of the three million cables come to the year. They are all addressed to me. But conservative analysis after the hearings focused less on the actual diplomatic policy and more on the optics. She opened up crying, which is, um u, partly the script. This anger this outrage, i can tell you, was not spontaneous. This was all preplanned. They had four months. They knew this was coming, and this was their strategy. Laura ingram, in a tweet that was later deleted wrote beyonce lipsyncing the marshall anthem, and hillary lipsync crying. I think she just decided before she was going to describe emotionally the four dead americans, the heroes, and use that as her trump card to get out of the questions. Joining now from capitol hill is a member of the Foreign Relations committee, democratic senator from pennsylvania, bob casey. Senator, thank you so much, and thank you for the hustle. We know you were just in that hearing, so tell us, we have seen two very differents faces in the last two days. There was no shortage of bows and arrows as secretary of state clinton sort of with stood questioning from some republicans on the committee and then today it seemed like i dont use this term often, a kumbaya moment in the senate, something we thought was perhaps impossible at this point. I would say, first, with regard to todays hearing, i think what you are seeing in the confirmation process for john kerry is a manifestation of building a bipartisan relationships over many years. That certainly is helping him m hearing. I think yesterday senator clinton did an excellent job dealing with difficult questions, taking responsibility, telling us how the implementation of all the changes and reforms are taking place, and i think, unfortunately, what you saw both a little bit in the house, a little bit in the senate is a lot of hot air. Kind of the typical hot air in washington. Its one thing to ask a probing focused question that will lead to an answer that will help us understand what happened better. Its another thing to blow a lot of hot air, and thats what i think you saw. She handled it with dignity and grace, and i think with the kind of Expansive Knowledge that weve come to expect from her as secretary of state. And, senator, i think youre exactly right on that point about questions, and thats sort of beyond the benghazi incident. I think theres been a dearth of discussion around Foreign Policy, and in some part thats due because the republicans themselves dont have have not verbalized or outlined a Foreign Policy agenda thats measurably different from that which the president is pursuing. I want to draw your attention to an article in the boston globe, an op ed that says basically the idea of a Foreign Policy doctrine is outmoded. Grand strategies are overrated. They are no more likely to guide this nation to noble he was than painful ones. Intervention is fervor, no matter the reason, tends to reflect not reality, but advocacy by people with agendas. One of the issues right now is that the president faces a number of shifting puzzle pieces around the globe. Does that, in effect, mean that there cannot be an Obama Doctrine that applies globally . I think its always helpful for a president and an administration to have a Foreign Policy and a philosophy about how to approach Foreign Policy, but you are right that even the greatest enunciation of strategy can be impacted by kind of the shortterm retactical challenges that you have, and a really volatile world, whether its the middle east. I chair a subcommittee that has all the middle east and all of south and central asia. Very volatile regions of the world. I want to play one piece of sound. I mean, as far as this being a layup, as i said earlier, it seems to be his confirmation is all but assured. Senator kerry did mention the use of drones. I thought this was really interesting. Lets replay the sound from earlier this morning. President obama and every one of us here knows that american Foreign Policy is not defined by drones and deployments alone. We cannot allow the extraordinary good that we do to save and change lives, to be eclipsed entirely by the role that we have had to play since september 11th. A role that was thrust upon us. Is that a sign that its looking more seriously at the after effects, the notion that drones may radicalize certain populations of a country . What how did you interpret that . Well, in some ways i think you have to ask the strigs that directly, but a Statement Like that may be as much a reflection on how our Foreign Policy is interpreted or analyzed as much as it is a commentary on strategy. Obviously, the Drone Program has been an effect ti tool or tactic, but even with that kind of capacity, we also immediate to make sure that we have all measures of our Foreign Policy and Security Policy at work, and why its so important to have a strong secretary of state is because we need diplomacy. Rough, tough difficult challenging diplomacy, even as we have a military strategy that is aligned with it. I want to open this up to our panel here in new york. You guys have been waiting so, so patiently. What we saw was a grilling that was as much personal if not more so, and the same is true for john kerry. He has as senator casey, he has established warm, very close relations with his colleagues in the senate, and i think perhaps because of that we are not going to get the sharp questioning that we maybe would, oh, say, if susan rice had been the nominee. The question still remains. The president will have a close, strlized circle around him. Its going to be a tight, cohesive policy. Yesterday and today its like comparing sesame street and zero dark thirty. Its different for all the reasons you said. It was theater. Yes, we need to get to the bottom of the issue, but, you know, it was really a lot of the people that are questioning its as much for their constituents back home to show that theyre doing what they want to be done as anything else. Not just their constituents, but you have to remember 2016. When hillary was sitting there in the same way that the democrats were saying, hey, we didnt get a chance to work with you or a chance to work with you for long, but were looking forward to doing that in the future. In the same way they were conscious of 2016, and i think the republicans who were giving her a tough grilling were conscious of 2016 and were thinking here is an early chance to draw some blood and give her some wounds as she goes forward into a possible president ial campaign. I dont think it worked. She held her own. Bear in mind, the whole testimony was several hours. What we saw was just a little bit of it, and i mean, Kelly Odonnell was saying this morning that the tone was overall very respectful. I think its important to remember that secretary clinton really has elevated this role. Her Approval Ratings are in the high 60 . Her tenure as secretary of state is extremely well regarded. Look at the way she handles herself. The difference between Hillary Clinton today and ten years ago or even further back, i mean, she is a cool, cool customer in a way that i dont think she ever was in the past. I would also say unafraid to show her emotional side in a pretty strong fashion. Staged or not, its effective. I, for one, do not think it was staged. You can interpret as you wish. Not that we know. Did he end of the day a real genuine emotional tenor to what she was saying, and i think she has very much, i think, grown into the roll. She also made the ultimate strong point to say we can go back to what susan rice said on what day. We have to look forward. Four american lives were lost here, and a lot of the questions being asked about what was said in the immediate aftermath have nothing to do with what we do Going Forward to make sure another incident like this never happens again. Its the strongest point to be made. Senator casey, before we let you go, in terms of republicans and Foreign Policy, you know, were talking about the questioning of Hillary Clinton was seemed to be in large part driven by 2016 ambitions or worries about electrics in the future. In terms of actual policy, what is the other side most concerned about visa vee, you know, Foreign Policy moving forward. Unfortunately, yesterday instead of asking, as i did, about the implementation of changes and getting those changes made so that we can prevent this from happening again or at least reduce the likelihood substantially, what you saw was a lot of frankly a lot of politics, but i think most americans saw it for what it was, and its important when you ask questions about benghazi to have looked at not just the information on the public record, but the classified information as well, and i think some of those questions would have been a little different if more people looked at the classified record on this. Just slightly different. It begs the question, though, senator casey, if the biggest concern right now is allegiance to either the yankees or the red sox, are you going to hold this nomination up over the phillies . I think i have to make sure that we have a secretary of state in place. I cant allow my prejudice to get in the way. By the way, the reason i have to leave is i still have to ask senator kerry some questions. I think it should be a phillies question. Im, of course of course kidding. Thank you for a thoughtful and substantive response to my very surface questions. Senator, thank you. Thank you so much. After the break stop gap deals, incoherent fiscal policy, and longterm political problems. You could be talking about the e. U. Or you could be talking about washington. We will flip a coin with cnbcs Andrew Ross Sorkin when he joins us live from davos, switzerland. Next on now. [ male announcer ] theres a story behind the silver of philadelphia cream cheese. 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By averting, we, of course, mean punting the ticking time bomb three months down the road. Another 90 days away so we can continue to royle this congress, this country, our people, and our economy. We should not even be having a debate. It should be no doubt that the full faith and credit of the United States will be honored, and that is what our constitution says. The gimmick nature of this whole thing i wont elaborate on, has been done before. Either way, the passage of this bill has allowed lawmakers to skip from brinkmanship to probably more brinkmanship. Looming just over the horizon is a budget battle that could shut down the government and automatic steep spending cuts that could cost thousands of jobs. Welcome to the new normal in washington. Joining us now from davos, switzerland, is cnbcs squawk box cohost New York Times columnist and author of too big to fail, Andrew Ross Sorkin. It is great to see you. I cant see the snowcapped mountains in the background, but im sure they are there. You cant . Come on. Theyre there. Theyre there. I promise. I believe you. I promise. I want to ask you, andrew, what is the view from davos . Colder, by the way, in new york than here, apparently. What did you say, alex . Thats the Climate Change block that well keep you on for later. In terms of the view from davos, here we are fiddling around with the u. S. Economy. What do the worlds great financial and fiscal minds have to say regarding the antics in washington . Well, ill tell you, actually, the prevailing few here, and eric cantor just arrived. The prevailing view is that even in three months from now, the idea that weve punted on this issue, i think the prevailing view here is that we punt it forever, meaning in three months from now while there will be a fight about it, it will either get pushed off again or that there will be some deal that allows us to raise the ceiling for another year or two. I will say the view among economists here, ceos, executives, much better than i would have ever expected. You know, i think were all very doom and gloom back in the u. S. Or at least it feels that way, but this is a much happier mood. Having said that, i should tell you, the its sometimes a contraindicator how people feel at davos. Weve looked historically over the past decade, and when people say they feel great, theyre awful, and when they say they feel awful, theyre great. Take it for what its worth. What is that . The mold wine . Why is that . Before you answer that, to prove your point, if you look at the dow over the last three months, the dow has been up 600 points since election day, and we have seen a very tumultous time in terms of talking about the u. S. Economy and certain folks wanting to perhaps hold it hostage. What is that what is that counter indication . What does that mean . Heres the good news. The good news is i think a lot of executives now have decided that theyre actually just going to have to live with fiscal cliffs. Were going to have a series of them, and that this is the new normal, as you would say, and that theyre just its like the weather. Now maybe its raining, maybe its not, but well have to live with, it and to the extent theres more confidence, i think its sort of theres been a come to jesus moment that this is sort of how its going to be. Whether thats the right thing or wrong thing, i dont know. Also, that there seems to be a lot more support here in europe for the economy and a sense that things are actually getting better, a sense that maybe austerity doesnt work, which is a real shift, and, by the way, is a real shift in terms of how republicans are going to have to think about whats going on in the u. S. We talked austerity, austerity, austerity, and theyre seeing how thats worked, and everyone is saying we got to find a way to get growth, and thats, of course, the million dollar, trillion dollar question how we get there. Andrew just said something that struck terror in my heart, which is we may be living on the fiscal cliff from now on. I dont own a caribbeaner, nor do i intend on buying one. That is crazy. The idea that this is just the new normal, please tell me thats not true. Please tell me you have thoughts to the contrary. Look, the brinksmanship, that says the new normal. I think playing toy with the debt ceiling and putting the chances of default at risk, that would be disastrous. Weve kind of avoided that for now. Dont forget, the fiscal cliff itself is a device that was put in place because of the current situation, because we cant come to an agreement on everything. But now it may actually be fostering a lack of bipartisanship, right . The snake has eaten its own tail. Yes, exactly. I love that. Its so useful. Losing our appetites, right . In terms of the other piece, the Austerity Program that the republicans would have us on, you know, for a long time weve been able to look not a long time, but at least a year weve been able to look at what has happened to the u. K. And their economy and sort of this fiscal austerity and how it actually hasnt worked, and as andrew points out, do you think republicans are sort of finally coming to terms with that notion . I dont think so. That goes against everything that they stand for. The fact that that would not work. Its funny. Andrew mentioned the imf issued some concerns specifically when talking about Global Economic growth that the u. S. Should not issue sharp cuts in spending, and they issued it in that they said that warning in that broader context along with calling out europe. The situation in europe. This is a big, pressing issue for us. Especially as we are teetering on the were in a recovery, but were still teetering, and so its very pressing right now. Austerity hasnt worked in the shortterm for the european countries. Its not whats recommended for us right now. The spending battles arent just about what happens in the shortterm. We have an entitlement fiasco, and i think the meritorious thing that republicans bring up in all of this is we are not addressing that, and that isnt so much about how our economy will do next year and the year its about trend lines and aging population, and a looming fiscal disaster in a couple of decades if we dont get entitlement spending you should control. Andrew, House Republicans are talking big talk about trying to get a balanced budget by 2023, which is real bold, i will quote, jonathan chat who says paul ryans budget even while employing fanciful projections didnt balance the budget until 2040. Moving that up by 17 years changes the plausible level from level union corn to level unicorn being ridden by santa claus. Your thoughts on that . Theres a larger point. Have republicans im not suggesting theyre not embracing austerity anymore, but theres an acknowledgment here. Were talking about there used to be a time they wanted a balanced budget the year after, next year, the year after. I do think theres been a fundamental shift in appreciation and understanding for how you get an economy going. Again, though, to me the bigger question goes back to what you talk about getting your caribeanor. Were going to be living with a series of fiscal cliffs, even if in three months from now we get a debt ceiling raiseded, that will be raised for a year, maybe two. Thats all were going to get, and well be in the soup and having the same conversation. Do you think thats true even if i mean, this is a pie in the sky scenario. What if the republicans lose the house in 2014 . We are looking at the numbers as they do, they lost the notion that they could get a balanced budget plan in ten years is basically poppy cock, and would you have to cut Discretionary Spending in half in order to do that. Frank is also right. Democrats will have to come to the table too. You have to ultimately balance the budget. You cantco what were doing no matter what side of the aisle youre on, and so, you know, whether you think the democrats take the house or whether the republicans keep the house, ultimately something has to happen, and by the way, i do expect the democrats will come to the table with something because i think if they dont, i think that the general public is actually much more in the middle than after the Election Results ultimately suggests. Oh, andrew. That is a great dispatch from davos. Next time we would like is it skiing or snowboarding . Whats your preference . Im a skier. I actually just learned to crosscountry ski. That is kind of fun too. I cant say that im surprised. I can see you slol emily across davos thinking of great fiscal insight. We ran a clip of it this morning of me falling, so it was, you know what happens in davos should probably stay in davos. Scloo as they say. Cnbcs Andrew Ross Sorkin from davos. See you back in new york. Big wigs are gathering to map out the partys longterm strategy except were not quite sure who the real leaders are or whether a coherent plan is even possible at this point. One thing we do know, the gop has got some issues, and we will discuss them just ahead. Hi dad. Many years from now, when the subaru is theirs. Hey. You missed a spot. Ill look back on this day and laugh. Love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. Nothing. Are you stealing our Daughters School supplies and taking them to work . No, i was just looking for my stapler and my. This thing. I save money by using fedex ground and buy my own supplies. Thats a great idea. Im going to go. We got clients in today. [ male announcer ] save on ground shipping at fedex office. A regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. The usual, bob . Not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib Atrial Fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. 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Blame president obama for the polarized Political Climate zoosh i think instead of trying to bring people together was a manifesto for, hey, its my way or the highway. I dont think thats necessarily productive. We will get a reality check on the grand ole partys grand ole problems next on now. Excuse me, sir im gonna have to ask you to power down your little word game. I think your friends will understand. Oh no, its actually my geico app. See . I just uh paid my bill. Did you really . From the plane . Yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24 7. Sounds a little too good to be true sir. Ill believe that when pigs fly. Ok, did she seriously just say that . Geico. Just click away with our free mobile app. What do you think the party must do better . Where do we go in the future . This is your chance to make your voice heard, and were listening. As the rnc begins its annual winter meeting in charlotte, chairman is soliciting ideas on how to renew, grow, and win. Mretco reports that he will tell attendees tomorrow that growing the party to be more welcoming and more inclusive does not require abandoning our principles. One way to be more welcoming might be to try to actually communicate with minority voters. According to the rncs website, the latest update for hispanic republicans was on october 18th. Romney for president launches his radio ad in spanish. The last team the rnc attempted to reach out to africanamerican republicans . September 5th, when mitt romney, the man who did not win the election nearly three months ago, announced his black leadership council. While this finely tuned targeted outreach will no doubt do wonder for the gop among hispaniced, who they lost by nearly 50 points, and africanamericans who they lost by nearly 80 points, yesterday Iowa Republican congressman steve king was busy reprimanding democrats for their nasty habit of playing identity politics. Neither can we disregard the vicious attacks on republicans that came from democrats during this last campaign and it was designed to divide people down the lines of race and ethnicity. They are masters at identity politics, and i think many republicans just seem to ignore that. Steve king was not alone in his sentiments, addressing the Rippon Society on tuesday. Speaker john boehner had this to say. Were expecting over the next 22 months to be the focus of this administration as they attempt to anilealate the Republican Party. I do believe that is their goal. To just shove us into the dust bin of history. Kevin mccarthy doubles down. This persons main goal is to continue to try to break the Republican Party. He is out of touch of where america is at with what he is trying to do. It was more of a speech for a Progressive Party agenda. Then there was congressman paul brown who offered this choice analysis. I think the only constitution that barack obama upholds is the soviet constitution, not this one. Joining the panel now is the editor of the new republic, a man who has suffered for several hours on the amtrak train, frank lynn for. Privatize that sucker. Seriously. Bloodsucking libertarian. That is saying something, my friend. Exactly. We keep asking whether the Republican Party will come up with a new idea . The biggest idea is that president obama is trying to uphold the soviet which was adopted in 1977 and says, among other things, in article one, the union of soviet socialestist republics is the socialist state of the whole people, expressing the will of intdz of the workers, pheasants, and nationalities of this country. If were most worried about getting sent to the goulage, check themselves in reality. I think there is something to their point which is that obama is not trying tore anile ate the Republican Party, but he is trying to break a fever. I mean, he is sick of dealing with guys that are obstruct and who he is unable to do business with, and he is trying to create a different set of circumstances where they come out of this next election with a different understanding of this political incentives . Arent they doing a fairly effective job of putting themselves in the dust bin of history when they have policies on everything from gay rights to voter id laws and those not in mathemati mathematics . Is there a sense inside the Republican Party, in among leadership . You have to wonder that something measurable needs to change. I actually want to bring up this thomas edsal New York Times piece which i thought was one of the best analyses i have read about whether republicans can change. He writes, the problems that faces Business Leaders pressing for reform is not just the reluctance of a Political Party to change. Instead, it is the fact that much of the republican electorate, as presently constructed is profoundly committed, morally and idealogically, to traditional values. Youre asking groups of people to change who were brought together by their resistance to change. Their opposition to change is why they are republicans, and oh, lo and behold, another man who has suffered several hours on a terrible ride up to new york city, the washington posts jonathan kaphart. It wasnt bad until we started rolling. Unfortunately it was a slow roll. In terms of that notion that republicans youre asking the party to change if the party wants to survive, it has no point to figure out how to appeal to women, young people, africanamericans, latinos, gays and lesbians, who turn their backs on the Republican Party. If the Republican Party had policies or positions similar to president obamas on gay rights, they would have been tied for that vote. I think it was 26 of the selfidentified gay and lesbian respondents said they would be more likely to vote for mitt romney. The naacp battleground poll after the election showed that if the Republican Party had similar positions or even cared about civil rights i think it was 14 of africanamerican voters said that they would be more likely to vote for the republican candidate. There are changes in this country that they can no longer deny, and thats why you have people like ralph reed coming out and saying we cant stick our head in the sand anymore, and you have theres supposedly Winter Convention going to have skype training and Google Hangouts and i think Google Hangouts sound great and skype training sounds great, but i go back to what pribus said. We have a message that we dont actually have to change our policy, right . If we have enough google hangs we can convince minority voters, gay voters that were inclusive, and, yet, you have the president delivering a message to the country on monday which was about immigration, gay rights, as civil rights issue, and immigration. None of which should be controversial. I dont think he believes they have to change anywhere. I think many are willing to change on immigration. I think youll find more and more of them changing on gay rights. Abortion is a whole different matter. I think he is saying our limited government message can go over as jonathan mentioned, if in some of these social areas both in temz of our positions and our tone, we make clear that we care about other people as well. I think is he talking about small limited government, not the whole spectrum of things they stapd for. Its a race against time, though, isnt it . Politico reports today that square my bird is heading up an effort to turn texas blue. Thats a big well, im not going to quote joe biden, but thats a big deal. It tends to be from coastal places, whether its Silicon Valley or corn gi melon, and they tend to flock to democratic leaning candidates and or causes, so the question is in the amount of time that you have, which is not a lot of time, how do republicans attract those kinds of that kind of talent . It does require wrestling with some of the fundamental tenants of the party. You are looking at very superficial things. Hangouts on google. Immigration reform was the was not a controversial issue within the Republican Party during the george w. Bush years where you had vast theyre not going to core issues about their view of government, of society, of the market, and i think that you see a great deal of desperation instead taking place. You look at whats happening in virginia and pennsylvania and michigan and the places where theyre trying to change the rules in order to kind of hang on to some their president ial electoral hopes. Alex, on this question of democracy, i was trying to think of this quote from Bobby Jindahl in this speech that he is going to give. He says we must reject the notion that the noegs that skin pigmentation dictates behavior. The first step in getting voters to like you is to demonstrate that you like them. That is the crystallizing issue for the Republican Party. How do you convince anyone not of the Republican Party current demographic hue, how do you convince those people that you like them and right now all those folks have a number of examples to point to to show that the republican does not like them, does not want them. Well, i mean, lets talk about the semiotics visa have i minorities calling undocumented workers illegals and conservative dog whistles over the president s nationality asserting that he is a kenyan revolutionary or the latest that he is only paying attention to the soviet constitution. Or not updating the website in six months, the website that is reportedly to outreach to minority republicans. Its maybe not the best strategy. What do i know . I guess i should just spend more time in the Google Hangouts. We have to leave it there, but coming up, the pentagon is about to make it official. Women can serve on the frontlines. Well look at what it means for the future of the u. S. Military just ahead. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare . Thats a good thing, but it doesnt cover everything. Only about 80 of your part b medical expenses. The rest is up to you. So consider an aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. Like all standardized Medicare Supplement plans, they help save you up to thousands in outofpocket costs. Call today to request a free decision guide. With these types of plans, youll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. 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Wherever your business takes you, nobody keeps you on the road like progressive commercial auto. [ flo speaking japanese ] [ shouting in japanese ] we work wherever you work. Now, thats progressive. Call or click today. Later this afternoon leon panetta due to leaf his post in midfebruary will announce that the pentagon is removing their ban on women serving in combat roles. The decision could open 230,000 jobs to women who will now be able to serve on the frontlines. Lee, this seems like a nobrainer, and, yet, the wall street journal has this to say about it. Owe despite the professionalism of marines, it would be distract and potentially traumatizing to be forced to be naked in front of the opposite sex, particularly when your body has been ravaged by lack of hygiene. In the reverse it would be painful to witness a member of the opposite sex in such an uncomfortable and awkward position. Ravaged by thats exactly right. Body odor that costs the army its victories. What . I didnt know hygiene or its lack could ravage you. As you pointed out, how many times were people fighting in the nude . I havent seen a lot of naked warfare, but maybe im just really the frontlines. Loo this is resistance to change. This is something thats been debated for decades. There are many women, as so many people have pointed out, who are basically already doing this, and so this is just sort of formalizing whats already happening, and more importantly, making it equal for opportunity for advancement and things like that. I will say, you know, there is no corporate boardroom that has not benefit from having women in the room, for other reasons, and i dont want to stereotype. You hear all the things. Women are more emotionally, you know sophisticated . Women are more pragmatic. Women are more collaborative. Women reach across the aisle more, all we can agree is probably a little bit true, but there is something to be said for that. Women approach things differently, and there is no boardroom, battlefield, anywhere, medical room, that cant benefit from that. Diversity in general. Lets take a moment to see how the u. S. Military has changed. Gays and women serving in the military. It is a great moment. You should be able to do or not do a job based on your ability to do it. When you say no women across the board, are you making a generalization, and making a summary judgment. You are not looking at whether individual women did can do individual jobs just as well as the men. I dont think we live in a country where we want to make those summary judgments. No, go ahead. Well, another thing is that we live in this age where you have an all volunteer force, and there is a cultural gap between the military and the rest of the country. I think addressing this one major issue for them helps to a large degree keep the military in step with the rest of the country and helps prevent that divide from getting even wider. These are listening to you read that paragraph from the wall street journal, i could not help but think are they talking about women or are they talking about gays serving in the military . Those were the same arguments used to resist gays serving openly in the military. We now know that gays serve openly have been serving in the military and now serving openly in the military, and the military has not fallen apart, so what secretary panetta is doing is perfectly fine and just. The unremarkableness of it, pair phrasing Melissa Harris perry, is almost a testament to how far weve come. Yes, this is just naturally par for the course. Its a great way for panetta to go out. This is a great kind of bookend on his tenure, i think. Leon going out on top. We have to leave it there. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Really, truly, for the battle today. Jonathan lee, franklin, and frank. See you back here tomorrow at noon eastern, 9 00 a. M. 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