delaying their defeat. >> i want to talk about what the president is likely to unveil here in a few minutes on an energy strategy here to try to speed up, get more oil into the market. it's the issue of trying to incentivize -- and i think issuing penalties, if you don't use a lease on government lands is one way, i guess, of incentivizing, but do you think that is at this point -- could you support something like that to essentially incentivize oil companies, hey, make these capital investments? we know your shareholders don't want it, but your country does. democracy does. this is -- not everything should be for shareholder profit. >> first of all, chuck, there are 2,200 leases that have been granted that are in litigation right now, litigation. the biggest problem is 75% of the leases are being used. the problem is they also have to speed up the permitting process. the applications for permits to drill has doubled since just a