appeal that to the supreme court. the democrats say they don't want to play this waiting game and they got to move forward. that they got to do it now. is it a risk? >> well, it's an important test of the claim of immunity that the white house has been trying to exercise. and it's amazing that this case dates back to the mueller probe. still litigating which actually gives you a sense of why democrats aren't going to wait for it. this has been percolating for months and months. but i would say in today's news, the fact that someone has -- the tires of rudy giuliani's consulting business should be cause for great alarm for both him and the president. >> is he michael cohen in this scenario? >> i think so and i think he would be wise to look back at what happened to michael cohen when he is thinking about the things he's saying on television or twitter because when you are under this type of legal scrutiny, the worst thing you can do is talk a lot in public. and i think that he is seemingly very confident about his position. but i don't -- i don't know what that stems from. >> an insurance policy. >> i don't know what that means