about policies that they're hearing that are polling well, and this is directly opposite of that. >> goes straight to the middle class persona and undercuts it. >> mike mcfaul, the president is meeting with him next week. what do you do? he is between a rock and hard place i feel like as far as right now, can't afford to alienate a future president, can't afford to alienate this president. >> well, it is difficult. i think it is up to the trump administration. they could clean it up by having a good meeting, reaffirming support for the ukrainian government. and remember, chuck, this is a pivotal moment in ukrainian history. they elected this brand new president, brand new parliament. this is their moment to break through. >> what do you make of zelinski. >> i don't know him personally, i know people that worked for