all those appointed by donald trump said there was absolutely nothing to the charges. what was your takeaway talking to donald trump and digging into this as deeply as you did? >> well, first of all, i think that the role of mark meadows that was just mentioned by mika there is incredibly important because there has been a lot of talk about the memo written by john eastman, this outside lawyer who advised trump. no, this was right in the white house. this was the white house chief of staff, this was his -- one of his campaign lawyers, outlining a very specific plan with dates and times that was all send centering on mike pence obeying the orders of donald trump and it was a plan that if pence had gone along with, would have resulted in a much bigger constitutional crisis than what we saw. and, joe, what i found is that's just one example of where this could have gone off the rails and almost did go off the rails, even in a more spectacular way than it actually did.

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