unclear what she wants. she has played this game, has infuriated the white house, who regard her as, at this point, mysterious and irrational. and to go to elizabeth's point about the politics of it, again, joe manchin is the only democrat people say could get elected in west virginia. kyrsten sinema is from a state joe biden carried. it's a purple state, not a blue state, but has a lot more political latitude for her to play than joe manchin has, and yet she is still playing hide the ball even more than manchin is. i think there's a lot -- the question is, what happens? they have the crack the kyrsten sinema code, whatever that turns out to be, for this to come together and puts the country in a tough place. >> and joe manchin also works around the clock like the form er governor and talks.