my work in the intelligence community a determined attacker will always get through. some of the attackers are nation state hackers from iran and north korea but not all that sophisticated. and unless we are good at going at that human attacker on the other side, unless prosecutors are figuring out who that person is and arresting them, we will never make a dent in this program. right now we are all defense, no offense. >> all right. mika oyang and dave aronberg, thank you. come back soon. great to have you both on. and we'll be right back with much more of "morning joe." ch m.