Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20130430

sequester? >> a few hours after voting, members left capitol hill and headed to the airport for a week long recess. oh, right. oh, right. because it's the problem from the sequester that affects them. they don't care about meals on wheels unless it's rolling down an aisle. >> good morning. 6:00 on the east coast, it's thursday, april -- oh, my gosh, it's tuesday only. it's only tuesday. are you kidding me? april 30th. >> i get home yesterday thinking it was friday. >> no, it's definitely thursday. >> my 9-year-old daughter, i swear, she says, is today friday, daddy? >> no. >> i said, no, come on. >> tuesday. >> it's going to be a long week. >> welcome to "morning joe." it is a big day, though. and you've got the reason why. with us onset we have historian and author of "thomas jefferson" jon meacham. holding the book. the book. by the president of council of foreign relations, richard haass. >> with the same tie. >> different tie. >> the case for putting america's house in order is out today. >> today. >> it's big. >> huge. >> really exciting. >> it's no american freak show. >> no. >> and in miami, we have editorial writer for the washington post and msnbc, contributor, jonathan capehart. >> he looks very relaxed. >> the one time i travel without a tie trying to relax and here what happens. >> well, that is what happens. >> that's jonathan relaxing right there. >> congratulations. >> i like the flower in the pocket. a lot of stuff going on. >> yeah, you want to just go there? >> yeah, i guess so. by the way, great show yesterday. >> that was great. >> great reporting out there. those people are still like so many friends we met on the jersey shore yesterday have such a long way to go. >> oh, my gosh, i know. it is one of those things where politicians, those first two weeks, they're there every day. we've got to fight, we won't leave your side. and i'm sure you saw, well, everyone kind of has left and they need help now. maybe more than they did. >> we need to go back in the heat of the summer. >> yes, we do. >> it'll be fun. >> yes, we do. >> here we go. there is new polling out that points to a big drop in support for a number of senators who voted against expanded background checks for gun sales. >> really? i never saw that? what happened? >> some people might be surprised by this. >> i'm surprised. >> it's important to admit you're wrong. >> i might have been wrong. i said it was a great idea. >> knowledge contrary data. >> -- to ignore 90% of the american people on safety. >> i know. >> and keeping guns out of the hands of terrorists. how could i have ever suspected that somebody might be -- >> usually you're so on target. >> -- when there's fbi most wanted suspects saying, please, keep your system the same so we can kill more americans. i never saw that coming. >> character's a journey. >> we'll help you along. >> that's what i was thinking. >> i read that in american freak show years ago. >> so for anybody accusing you of sort of things, bottom line is, this is a reality. a reality. >> let's see what the reality is in the rest of america. >> republican senator jeff flake of arizona. >> he's very popular guy. he had a 40 -- 70% approval rating as a congressman forever. >> minus 19 net approval rating. >> what? >> that makes him the poll's least popular sitting senator. >> what happened? >> the poll's least popular sitting senator. he lost -- >> eclipses minority leader mitch mcconnell. >> he lost 19 points. that's the net -- that's unbelievable. actually, net approval is minus 19 and, of course, he's in gaby giffords state. not helpful. and john mccain voted for background checks for terrorists and criminals. who's next? >> senator lisa murkowski, once among the country's most popular senators, she's down a net 16 points. >> wow. >> from february. her alaskan counterpart jeff begich dropped a net six points. senator rob portman dropped 18 points in ohio over the last six months. and in nevada, republican dean heller has seen a smaller drop, although he's shedding significant support among the key independent voters. so last week, we showed you senator kelly ayotte's numbers in new hampshire go from a net positive in october to a net negative now. >> and the majority of voters support expanded background checks in each of these five states ranging from 60% in alaska to 75% in new hampshire. and you saw this quinnipiac poll, it works the other way. you have on the other side, pat toomey was in charge of this bill along with joe manchin. a lot of people said, oh, gee, this is going to hurt him -- no, he's registered his highest approval ratings ever since he's been the united states senator. >> what do we make of all of this. >> well, wants to jump in here. this is obvious stuff. and we've said it's pretty obvious stuff. and there's no doubt some are going to be hurt a lot more than others, but right now jeff flake is in a freefall, kelly ayotte is in a freefall. we'll see what happens to heidi when her time comes. >> real question is how much this hurt lingers and when people do next go to polls or asked to donate money and get politically organized whether this sticks and whether they pay a price or people on the other side of the issue reap a benefit from this. so to me that's the real question. whether six months or a year from now whether this issue still has the intensity with these results. >> two points. let's talk about money, the senators are worried about right now. i know in the state of florida, the top republican fund rater in the state. a man who helped run jeb bush's along with another huge republican. a group of top donors in the state of florida are getting together and saying here's the deal, we're not going to give you all another dime until you pass rational gun legislation. and by rational, they're not talking, i don't think, about assault weapons. they're talking about background checks and gun trafficking. that's a game changer right there. on the other front. if jeff flake's numbers can drop 18 percentage points and you also have others collapse now, will people be that intense six months from now? no, but this is an issue that moves numbers. the issue that moves numbers, put it in a 30-second ad, and whenever they run, they look extreme and out of touch. whether they run in 14, 16 or 18, this is going to be a terrible hit against them unless they decide to be rational and follow what the majority wants and keep the guns out of the hands of terrorists. don't want terrorists to go to gun shows and buy bushmasters. >> one of the vocal opponents of the bill. and i remember 2 of 3 television appearances he made where he was extremely unclear about why he was against background checks. and i think there were a lot of people who didn't feel he was necessarily telling the truth. >> i don't know about that. you can only judge a man by how he votes. but i've got a feeling, willie geist, i know they're working quietly behind the scenes. i think it's going to be like welfare reform. bill clinton vetoed twice until he realized we republicans were going to keep sending him welfare reform. i think you've got these people. lost 20 percentage points. he's going to want to find a bill he can support and tell his people that. >> they're going to have to do if they want to turn their poll numbers around, but if you look at toomey, joe manchin has said again on sunday he wants to go back in over the next 18 months, put something together and get this done. pat toomey says i'm going to turn to fiscal issues. he says i'm not aware of anything that would turn out differently if we held the vote. you have two guys in the middle of this who seem to have two different mindsets about whether it's wise to keep pushing on th this. >> some people wait until after deadlines. right now if you're republican and you've seen what's happened over the last couple of cycles even though it's not going to apply to 2014. the second you get past that primary filing date, suddenly you are desperate to be on the right side of the 90% issue. i'm telling you, politically it is -- it is not sustainable for a candidate running into the general election in 2014 to be on the wrong side of a 90% issue. it doesn't happen. they will change their vote and do what they think the right thing is. >> i was wondering, practical political level, you're reading these polls, you feel a little vertigo, you know, don't like seeing that. >> yeah. >> is there an effort? is there -- could someone come out? could there be a domino effect if remember in 1991 president reagan wrote a letter saying we should have the brady bill, with the waiting periods. >> right. >> and that helped flip the debate. is there a leadership place where this can -- something would give these folks after the filing deadline passes, they avoid the primary trouble, they can say, well, you know what -- >> a guy like george w. bush could help. he supported background checks, trigger locks all of thoelgz things. coming out after the primary would certainly help, i think. some other people that can help. but 90% in the polls will help too. >> yeah. people act differently. i know jeff, she's not running around the office with his hair on fire. but he's probably thinking if i can get another vote and i have an excuse to vote for it, i'll vote for it. whereas there are other people on the hill right now who are running around with their hair on fire. >> yeah. got a lot of other news to cover. ted cruise in the news, elizabeth colbert bush and mark sanford had their first debate. and jason collins in the news, as well. we'll start with ted cruise who threatened to filibuster the gun bill and openly mocking members of his own party. >> that's good. >> good move. >> helpful for your -- >> okay. it's really great when freshmen mock senior party members. what did he do? >> broke tradition on friday by publicly discussing what went on behind closed doors when fellow republicans criticized him for giving democrats ammunition to portray the gop as obstructionists. crews hit back during a texas meeting of the tea party aligned group freedom works. >> we've had probably five or six lunches with a bunch of republican senators standing up and looking at rand and mike and me and yelling at us at the top of our lungs. i mean really upset. and they said, look, why did you do this? as a result of what you did when i go home, my constituents are yelling at me that i've got to stand on principle. >> look, there are a lot of people that don't like to be held accountable. they said, listen, before you did this, the politics of it were great. the dems were the bad guys, the republicans were the good guys, now we all look like a bunch of squishes. well, there is an alternative. you could not be a bunch of squishes. >> jon meacham. that's a smart move by the young senator. and i encourage him to continue. >> well, it's -- >> to misrepresent what people say inside of -- he's lying. >> that's the key. >> he's lying about what republican senators were saying in those meetings. he's exaggerating. >> right. >> but, you know, he's not lying about democrats, he's lying about his own party. >> right. the problem with that -- >> we know what went on inside those meetings and what ted cruz is saying is not true. >> yeah. it's one of richard's buddies used to say, it's important to remember no one ever comes out second best in their own memoir. no one ever comes out second best in their own anecdote in the constituent meeting. >> jennifer ruben commented on ted cruz making something up to attack fellow republican senators. what did she say? >> she writes in the washington post, don't be a jerk, senator cruz. there's being principled and there's being a jerk. putting down your colleagues to boost your own street cred with the base falls in the latter category. there are many things wrong with senator cruz's comments whatever you think of the merits of the gun legislation for a guy who likes manners, he comes across as whiney. his actions suggest an immaturity and lack of sophistication about conservative governance. he might want to apologize to his colleagues for betraying their confidence and sit down and think what it is he wants to do in the senate. obstruction is easy, governance is hard. >> jonathan capehart, ted cruz, not most likely to win miss hospitality this year. >> no, the guy's only been in office since january and these -- if there's bipartisan agreement on capitol hill, it's that senator cruz is a bit of a jerk. well, maybe not a bit of a jerk. he is a jerk. democrats don't like him. but republicans really can't stand him. there was that day when ruth marcus and another, i can't remember the ore columnist, you know, someone from the right, someone from the left gunning for ted cruz. and that only happens when people in your own party are sick and tired of your nonsense and gumming up the works they want to send a message to you. and watching that video clearly ted cruz couldn't care less what democrats think of him and certainly couldn't care less what republicans think of him in the senate. hep doesn't know, but the senate unlike any institution in the american governance is the smallest of boats. there are 60 people jammed on to a boat. and you and i have seen it through the years. if one guy comes in and he starts acting like this, you know, the oar, just accidentally comes back and hits him in the head several times. he does not realize how small the senate is and you go around making up stories about republicans in republican meetings that are supposed to be in confidence anyway, it's not -- >> it's not what goes around comes around, a more serious level. this is what's wrong with american politics. you've got some responsibility, you've got to govern, it means forgesing coalitions, sometimes compromising instead of playing to the galleries and these extreme groups. >> clearly he thinks this is a jimmy stewart thing, he came to washington, banging on the podium, the lectern. he's one man fighting, swimming upstream. you'll need a lot of votes from those people. >> he's a man of the people. a harvard lawyer. i think he went to princeton undergrad. he doesn't have my cred. >> way higher than number one. >> i went to princeton. >> populism. >> wasn't he working the solicitor general's office? >> clerks for william rehnquist. >> clerk for the great william rehnquist, once alone the center, one of the most influential conservative jurists of the 20th century. he's just a simple guy. going down to texas talking about, hey, i found the place and i'm shaking it up. >> truth to power, baby. >> truth to power because he's never been around it. puts on his best clean shirt and goes to work and puts on the clip-on tie and, you know, does his best. he's a harvard lawyer and this is whatever, good luck today, senator cruz. we're thinking about you. they'd be doing it today. >> okay. there is just one week left before that closely watched congressional race in south carolina. and last night, democrat elizabeth coe ber bush and former republican governor mark sanford had what will likely be their one and only debate. they battle over issues from federal spending to healthcare and gun control. didn't take long for colbert bush to bring up mark sanford's personal past. >> when we're talking about getting our fiscal house in order, we need to look at everything from cutting spending to what are our costs. so during the time when we're having all this fiscal spending and fiscal cutting and back to the days where everybody had a furlough in the state, everybody was losing their jobs and we were pulling our belts in. when we talk about fiscal spending and we talk about protecting the taxpayers, it doesn't mean you take that money we saved and leave the country for a personal purpose. >> she went there, governor sanford. >> i didn't hear what she said. >> you voted for the defensive marriage act and to impeach president clinton for an extramarital affair. would you vote those ways again? >> well, i -- i would reverse the question to you. and i would say this. do you think that president clinton should be condemned for the rest of his life based on a mistake he made in his life? >> well, and the answer is he's not. so there you go. >> no, he's not, and i have a prediction for you out of this. also touted his fiscal credentials and colbert bush pushed back on the claim she was taking cues from figures like nancy pelosi. >> i've gotten into this race with the hope of taking what i've learned in congress, the governorship, on the way up, way down, all of it. and applying it to what i believe is the great debate of our civilization which is, indeed, how do we get our financial house in order? because if we don't there will be real consequences for every one of us. >> i want to be very clear, mark, nobody tells me what to do, except the people of south carolina's first district. and secondly, if you've been looking at the commercials and paying attention, i'm a fiscally conservative independent tough businesswoman. okay. and if you also notice one last point, i push back on the obama budget. let's talk about being reasonable, thank you. i told you no one tells me what to do, i'm an independent businesswoman and i will reach across the aisles. >> yeah. >> all right. any reactions to to the debate? >> reactions, richard haass? >> well, willie was pointing out that the stage craft and the technology was really kind of advanced. >> i wasn't as sarcastic in my analysis. >> willie geist? >> i thought mark sanford's answer to the question about his -- >> the bill clinton. >> that was a good line, but i think he's up against a tough opponent. she's obviously smart and willing to punch hard. >> there's clear issues with leaving the state. but for other politicians in a similar situation, it's interesting to me how they get a pass. and bill clinton's a great example. a complete pass. >> well, i think democrats, and that's the thing democrats going after any republican. after what happened in the 19 d 1990s. it works both way. you can ask mark sanford, did you vote for impeachment? democrats said the audience, did you give president clinton an absolute free pass on all the information that came out? they did. jonathan capehart, i hear you have a point. >> well, i wanted to bring something up. the problem mark sanford has here. it's not only the appalachian trail and his now argentinan fiance, his campaign has been a little weird. and no so much his campaign, but what's been happening around his campaign. whether it's the trespass problem that he has with the divorce agreement with his now ex-wife or some of the other things in the complaint that she made whether it was something about airplanes and the property he has on the plantation. the cardboard cutout debate with nancy pelosi, there's a lot of weirdness attached to him and his campaign that makes what we just saw there in that debate, the real debate seem a little strange to me and a little sad. >> it seemed like sanford wanted to see that information get out and that private confidential information did get out. i think she also commented about one of her sons meeting mark's girlfriend for the first time on stage there. that certainly is not helpful. and yesterday, if i'm not mistaken he came out saying he was against background checks for criminals and terrorists. and if i'm not mistaken in his district, we showed a poll a couple of weeks ago, 86% of people in mark's district disagree with him. we'll see what happens. >> there are issues to win and lose on. >> and right now, that's a key issue. if i were mark, that would have been a great opportunity for him to be different. all right. coming up on "morning joe," jeffrey sachs will be joining us. interesting. him speaking before i believe some bankers and he was a little blunt. eugene robinson will be here along with rana foroohar. kal penn will discuss his exciting new show. and a new look at america's 16th president and why the historic debates with stephen douglass still matter in today's politics. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. we'll improve things all the way up through new england. yesterday was a cloudy damp day with on and off rain, today's a little bit better, then we have a great stretch of weather right into the upcoming weekend. first things first, temperatures are kind of cool in the big i-95 corridor, upper 40s to low 50s. light jacket needed, still a chance of rain showers today from washington, d.c., coastal maryland, delaware, not so bad, though, in new england, we should be mostly dry from hartford to boston. today's forecast looks nice where it's going to be sunny. 63 and sunny in boston, hartford with some sun, low 70s, but definitely cooler in the low 60s for new york city to philly to washington, d.c. the rest of the country, active weather in the middle of the country. in the middle of the nation, but the cold air is returning. can you believe this? another snowstorm is on the way. this will be more wednesday into wednesday night. wyoming, down through cheyenne to denver. as much as 6 inches of snow in denver, colorado, wednesday afternoon into wednesday night. that's may 1st snow for denver. and that could even move into the central plains as we go into the second day of may. areas from kansas city to minneapolis. possibility of snow flakes in may. for seeing your business in a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. let's take a look now at tim tebow's new york jets career. roll it. ♪ ♪ nobody does it better ♪ makes me feel so -- >> all right. >> i'll tell you what, man. willie, they treated that guy so horribly. they should be ashamed of themselves. >> shouldn't have brought him on in the first place, there was nowhere to put him. it'll be interesting now to see if he ends up anywhere. he's not going to start anywhere. >> somewhere. >> you know, and the guy showed, i thought, willie, such amazing class. >> totally. >> any other player in his potion would've spoken out, would've gotten angry. that guy, a lot of people make fun of him for kneeling. the guy lived his faith in new york over two extraordinarily frustrating seasons. >> terrible. he was brought in, told he was going to be the backup quarterback and when his time came, they went to the third string quarterback and even that he handled publicly with a lot of class. and i hope he ends up somewhere, i just don't know where it is. he's been tried as a experiment a bunch of different places and it hasn't worked out. i don't know what the incentive is to pick him up. >> and yesterday he tweeted proverbs 3:56, always acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. >> if you're going into the market, that's a good, you know, i'm going to say it's -- >> don't be cynical. >> it's not cynical. >> no, the guy publicly kicked around and for him to tweet that, i think shows great leadership. >> when he was -- >> but the broncos, he was on his way to becoming and he still could be one of the most important public evangelical figures in the country. >> yeah, he is. >> in a very genuine way. and that line from proverbs draws on the hebrew bible's sense of trying to keep it together during tragedy and difficulty. >> like willie keeps it together when he does politico every morning. >> this is my bible. the "politico" playbook. the editor, mr. jim vandehei. good morning. >> good morning, willie, how are you? >> doing all right. your lead story talking about president obama's budget putting house democrats in a tough spot. how is that helping? >> health care's become a problem in general for democrats right now if you think about it in two different areas. one, the budget that the president put forward does go after entitlement spending in a specific way which you talk about a lot on this show. for house democrats, they feel like running off the election that complicates their lives because they like to attack republicans for trying to reduce spending on entitlement programs. that's o box. there's a new poll out this morning by the kaiser foundation that shows that support for the obama health care law has dropped eight points. it's now at about 34%. and you saw in the debate last night where she was distancing herself from the obama health care law. i think there's a lot of democrats worried that the implementation has been very difficult, unpopular, particularly for small business owners and it could be very problematic for them in off-year elections, much like it was in 2010. >> i read a "wall street journal" last night, areretweet it, and talked to people close to the president saying this is the great challenge for 2014. you talk about the law of unintended consequences. this thing, nobody knows what the practical impacts are going to be. we do know that a lot of people are going to lose their health care. we know that costs are going up higher if you believe what the cbo is saying. man, i would not be surprised. i'm not predicting it, but i wouldn't be surprised if you didn't see not only republicans, but democrats spending 2014 on the campaign trail campaigning against large chunks of obama care. i personally think this is going to be a real problem for democrats. >> it was always going to be difficult whenever you're talking about a bureaucracy, the implementation is going to be difficult. what's complicated it. and i think kind of caught the government a little bit blind sided, so many have taken the medicaid money. a lot of governors are saying we're not going to set up a state-based exchange for people to choose different health insurance plans they can buy. so now the federal government's going to be doing a lot of that managing. when they have demanded something that big, that complex in a short period of time, you inevitably have a lot of plementation problems. that's what house house democrats very worried. if the bill becomes popular, in the short-term, they think it's going to be terribly unpopular. >> max baucus is warning the white house about it. a lot of democrats have been warning the white house about this. and it is, i think it's going to be a real political problem. >> when i used to teach political science, we used to say 90% of life is execution and implementation. this is the 90% of life. all the focus on the design of the bill, now into the rough stuff. >> yeah. jim vandehei with a look at the politico playbook. thanks so much, jim. >> take care. coming up next, jason collins turns the sports world upside down with the announcement he's the first male athlete in a pro sport announcing he's gay. we'll have the executive editor of the magazine joining us next. "morning joe" back in a moment. ♪ ♪ i've got the power people lose 5x more weight following the weight watchers approach than trying on their own. you can too. ♪ ♪ you've got the power ♪ ♪ oh, yeah ♪ get the power the new weight watchers 360 program. ♪ whoo! join for free and check out the new risk free guarantee today. because it works. and check out the new risk free guarantee today. everybody has different ideas, goals, appetite for risk. you can't say 'one size fits all'. it doesn't. that's crazy. we're all totally different. ishares core. etf building blocks for your personalized portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours. how much is too much water? too little? until we got miracle-gro moisture control. it does what basic soils don't by absorbing more water, so it's there when plants need it. with the right soil, everyone grows with miracle-gro. yesterday was a big day in the world of sports. nba center jason collins who most recently played with the washington wizards has become the first active male athlete in the major pro sport to announce publicly he was gay. he made the announcement in a profile in "sports illustrated." in it quoted as saying i'm a 34-year-old nba center, i'm black and i'm gay. i didn't set out to be the first openly gay athlete playing in a major american team sport, but since i am, i'm happy to start the conversation. i wish i wasn't the kid in the classroom raising his hand and saying i'm different. if i had my way, someone else would've already done this. nobody has, which is why i'm raising my hand. joining us now john, good to have you here. >> thanks. >> first of all, how did this come about? did he approach you recently? >> yeah, maybe a month ago. we got a call, his agent sort of indicated there might be a player who is interested in telling his story and wanted to wait until after the season. this whole notion of an athlete coming out has been in the ether and the sports eco system lately. and we were given a date, come to los angeles, we didn't know the identity of this player. and we were thinking maybe he's going to reconsider. obviously that would be understandable. another writer and i showed up and went to the address and jason was there to answer the door and very eager to tell a story. >> were you surprised who you saw when you got there? >> we knew it was a basketball player. we knew just sort of reverse engineering, his team had been elimina eliminated. that's about it. this was a name, if you follow basketball, you know the collins, jason, and this was a guy in the prime of his career he was an all-star? no, but i think this is someone who is really well suited for what awaits. >> the thing that struck me reading was how well thought out it was and how well written it was. he makes such an articulate and passionate explanation of why he decided to come out. >> yeah, part of it is, he's an adult, 34, went to stanford. he's a charismatic, intelligent guy. he obviously gave a lot of thought to. and one of the reasons he came to "sports illustrated," he wanted to tell this in his own words. he didn't want this filtered. here's what i feel. here's how i want to say it. when we arrived, he had a clear sense of where he wanted to go. >> jonathan? >> yeah, john, how did -- so he answers the door, clearly you didn't know who it was. how was he unspooling his story? in telling you the journey that he's been through to the point where you're sitting there and you and another writer from "sports illustrated" are listening to his story? people say how was the interview? it was three guys sitting around a table in someone's house and we probably were there a few days. it was just a conversation among adults. and, again, he had a very clear idea of what he wanted to say. he was very funny, there were times he was emotional. i think he was absolutely steadfast he wanted to tell the story. and, you know, three days later, we were still sort of going back and forth. but, you know, texting back and forth yesterday, he's overwhelmed by this reaction. but for all of the emotions of total palate of emotions, nerves or fear. >> there was a sense this was coming, anybody who looked at sports or followed sports knew there would come a day where a major professional athlete would announce he was gay. i don't think anyone knew it would be jason collins. how big of a deal is this from where you're sitting in miami? >> it's huge. keep in mind, i was on vacation and this news broke and my twitter feed blew up. i was getting e-mails from friends. jason collins is, you know, as everyone knows i'm not big into sports. >> no. >> yeah. i ran -- red the sports illustrated story and read all the links to the making of the story and who is this person. and the thing i find most sort of wonderful about this story, i think john said, you know, this is someone unlikely but well suited to this. jason collins is doing what millions of gay men and lesbians do across kitchen tables, living rooms with family members, friends, coworkers, every single day. and the fact that jason collins isn't some superstar in the nba but is a hard working, well respected, incredibly smart member of the nba says a lot about him and says a lot about just where this country is that it's almost -- and i don't mean this in a negative sense, it's almost unremarkable what's happening with jason collins. you know, he's come out in the nba. he's african-american, he's male, he's also 7 feet 255 pounds. but the overwhelming support that he's getting from the president of the united states, the former president of the united states, former secretary of state on down to just everyday people who are looking at this man and are marveling at the fact that someone with so much strength and courage could do this in a way that's respectful and also maintains his dignity. >> and also quickly, john, the reaction from the nba, kobe bryant didn't take five minutes before he tweeted out. you wouldn't have seen that ten years ago. almost across the board in the nba, people offering their support. >> yeah, across the board period. now that's a big component of the story. we had no idea how this was going to break. >> this is kobe's tweet. >> were you surprised by this? how quickly fellow players came to his defense? >> yeah, when we sat at it his house, there was no precedent. who knew? this had never been done before. i was very surprised by just how the speed and also just how -- the nba was great, but he was getting tweets from every imaginable sector. >> yeah, absolutely. the cover story on jason collins appears in the new issue of "sports illustrated." thanks for coming in. >> thank you, john. >> thank you so much. coming up next, mika's must-read opinion pages, watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. want to invest in something that gives you many happy returns? invest in the lives of children by being a teacher. there's nothing as rewarding as watching kids succeed and knowing you had a hand in it. you'll want to be a teacher. the more you know. mornings are a special time for the two of you...) and you can make them even more special... with fancy feast mornings. mornings are delicious protein-rich entrées... with garden veggies and egg. each one perfectly designed... to start her day with a little love. fancy feast mornings gourmet cat food. the best ingredient is love. withyou'll find reviewsve time, on home repair to healthcareon. written by people just like you. you want to be sure the money you're about to spend is money well spent. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. 48 past the hour. live look at the white house on this kind of dreary tuesday morning. >> don't worry. it's almost may. >> richard haass, this is your debut. your book debut day. >> hitler death day also, right? >> yep. >> the day hitler killed himself. >> and so now we have to crawl down into a bunker and read richard haass' book. >> this is a great book. >> tell us why you wrote the book. >> the short answer, i'm worried. this country over the last decade has been overreaching abroad in places like iraq and afghanistan trying to remake other countries and we've been underperforming at home. if we look at we haven't done on the budget, entitlements, infrastructure or schools or immigration, we're clearly underperforming. and you can be sanguine and say we'll always work it out. americans could always be counted on to do the right thing only after they've tried everything else. well, for the first time in my life, i'm not so sure. i'm genuinely worried about whether our politics will get out of the w and let us do what we need to do both at home and abroad. >> and your concerns, you have many concerns about what's happening across the globe. but you say here at home, the things that worry you the most are exploding deficits and debt, our second rate schools, this convoluted immigraon system that doesn't make sense. and the fact that we're not minding business in the united states. >> absolutely. and it's not an isolationist -- the good news is, we've got a bit of time and space abroad. there's nobody out there like germany in the middle of the century or the soviet union for four decades of the cold war, we've got time and space. there's no equal out there. and the real question is whether we will get it right. and if we do, we will then have the capacity to help spe the world to meet the problems, but if we don't, what scares me, there's no alternative to an american-led world. >> right. >> it's not going to be china, india, europe, japan, it's going to be no one. and the alternative to a u.s.-led world quite honestly is chaos. it's awful for the 300 million people here, our borders will not be a barrier. we will not thrive in a world that is messy. and unless we get our domestic house in order, we're not going to be in a position to act or lead. >> jon meacham, he's come over to my side. he's an american firster. >> well, far fro it. that's the great thing. talk, though, about is there a moment you want to in way recreate. is it the 50s, early 60s, kind of ardent internationalism with care for domestic life at home? >> i actually think the closest is m favorite recent president, one i worked for, which is bush 41. overseas, he had an internationalist role, coalitions and all that. but also limits. we got rid of saddam hussein in iraq, but we didn't march down on baghdad. there was international involvement, but still a limit on what was smart to do. and at home, he was the one willing to go out t andrews air force base and forge a coaliti across party lines and deal with the budget. i think history, you're writing thbook on it. i think history will look at bush 41 as the model of a modern president who was involved but yet realistic abroad and willing to be pragmatic rather than ideological at home. >> do you think that president obama has all this in his head and his heart and feels -- a the constraints of the system? >> i think president obama has it inis head and heart, but it hasn't come out that way. abroad, for example, why did we triple u.s. force levels in afghanistan? why did we go that far? and home, why did he create the simpson/bowles commission and orphan it? essentially he talks about nation building at home and large parts of what he does, i like. i ink, for example, the shift towards asia makes sense. the caution about the middle east makes some sense. the problem with the obama presidency is just hasn't seen it through and he hasn't had this conversation with the american people. we need a bit more fdr. a little bit of a modern fire side chat with the american people would go a long way. >> what's the prescription for the future? we'r going to delve deeper into richard's book ahead on "morning joe." also, nbc chief white house correspondent chuck todd. more "morning joe" in just a moment. man: how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future? 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>> well, we can do that. we have a lot to get to. dr. sachs, i think you scared some people. >> i hope so. >> just for the record, i think you did. there's new polling out that points to a big drop in support for a number of senators who voted against expanded background checks for gun sales. according to public policy polling. republican senator jeff flake of arizona has a minus 19 net appral rating. that makes him the poll's least popular sitting senator. eclipsing minority leader mitch mcconnell. that's interesting. senator lisa murkowski, once among the country's most popular senators is down a net 16 points from february. her alaskan counterpart, democrat mark begich dropped a net six points, rob portman's approval dropped a net 18 points in ohio over the last six months. >> wow. >> and republican dean heller has seen a smaller drop. although, he's shedding significant supporamong the state's key independent voters. last week, we showed you senator kelly ayotte's numbers in new hampshire go from a net positive to a net negative now. a majority of voters support expanded background checks in each of those five states ranging from 60% in alaska to 75% in new hampshire. meanwhile, quinnipiac polling shows pennsylvania voters give senator pat toomey who co-authored the background check legislation his highest marks ever. and it's so strange because, joe, you were telling some of the republicans in this, you know, making decisions about this vote that they really ought to stick to the base and the nra version of things because they'll lose everything. you were warning them to, you know, vote against background checks. and now look what's happened. >> why would you want to be on the side of the 90%? why would you want to cross an al qaeda member who is on the fbi's most wanted list? who actually if you have an al qaeda member going on youtube and basically calling jihad, called jihad against americans to shoot and kill americans and he says background checks, the system is terribly flawed in meshlg. so go to america, what are you waiting for, get guns, kill americans. why would any senator republican or democrat want to stop al qaeda from having access to those guns in gun shows or on the internet? i guess this whole politics thing is just way above me and the majority of the united states senators. let's go to gene robinson. it's not really a surprise, is it? you basically give the finger to 90% of the american people and in certain states, like new hampshire, arizona, where gaby giffords a united states congresswoman was shot and almost killed, that just doesn't go over well with constituents. >> no, they give the finger right back. and, you know, this -- who nd pe because we don't have adequate background checks because these senators are bone heads. >> well, i'll tell you what -- >> that's one way of putting it. >> again, we've had an act of domestic terrorism. you have, again, somebody on the fbi's most wanted list, mika, saying go to america, buy guns at gun shows, get them on the internet. there's not a strong background check system there. how long are the senators going to wait when you have somebody encouraging domestic terrorism of the united states? how long will they wait before they fix this wrong and make america a safer place? >> well, and i think what's getting lost in the process is that we should be focusing on the other two equally as important facets of this debate and maybe even in some ways more important, the mental health aspect of it and there's a bipartisan group of lawmakers who are trying to put together a package. but it's not even how do we move forward? and by the way, how do we address some of these people committing these acts if we can't get background checks? >> let's move overseas in syria, mika, the situation keeps worsening. gene actually wrote about syria today in his column. a lot of people talking about syria right now. >> gene, you write in the "washington post," president obama is right to resist the mounting pressure for military intervention in syria. action by u.s. forces may or may not make the situation better. but certainly could make things worse. would u.s. intervention, at least save civilian lives? perhaps. but if the regime responded to a u.s. enforced no-fly zone by using more brutal attacks against innocent towns and villages, what would we do then? try to destroy all the tanks, as well? start using drones to blast asad's palaces in hopes of taking him out? put boots on the ground? what's happening in syria is enough to break your heart. but for now, the right thing to do is to stay out. >> another columnist in the washington post richard cohen writes this, red lines red herring in syria. ama's policy regarding syria has been a strategic failure. it is permitted or at least not impeded the deaths of upward of 70,000 people and created a humanitarian calamity with more than 1 million refugees. the region is being destabilized. people are living in misery. obama must have known that sooner or later he would have to act on syria. his plan is to let events force his hands. he's issue eultimatu. it's actually an abject failure of leadership. up, quite a different look from two washington post columnists, gene. >> well, done something, everybody feels let's do something. but do what? do what is the question. what could have been done six months ago, a year ago. short of invading syria doing, essentially doing an iraq on syria. and we know how well that's worked out. and i don't know the answer to that. so it does break your heart. it is destabilizing what's happening in syria. what can you do? arm the renls? who are the rebels we're going to argue? yet to find rebels who can be sure would not later turn those weapons on united states allies. >> the longer we go, the more dangerous the situation becomes, the more refugees spill out across the middle east. the more syrians are killed, the more al qaeda is strengthened, because right now the longer this fight goes on, the more chaos is there, the more al qaeda steps in to the power vacuum. and now is the primary source fighting asad. >> and with that factor, we may have iraq without having iraq. i think what gene and richard have written sort of lays out why leadership is so thankless. basically, we want prudence, prudence, prudence until we don't. then it's drift, drift, drift. i do think that this is one where i'm closer to richard on this, which i hate to say. for many reasons, but i think that because of the destabilizing effect, you know, this is not a containable crisis. it's not as to this is a kind of humanitarian crisis in some part of the world where there are not implications. >> i greetly agree with that, and i think richard does have the right idea. and i think the sectarian nature of it, the viral implitions for the entire region for what would happen in iran and also if you look at the appetite in this country for any kind of further military intervention, there just isn't in. there just really isn't any kind of political support for this i don't think. >> that is a serious, serious problem obviously this would have to be part of an international effort. the united states, the public won't support going alone anywhere. certainly won't support any boots on the ground. jeffrey, the president said at least six months ago, assad must go. he's talked about chemical weapons being the red line that's been crossed and that would change his thinking. the red line has been crossed. i don't know how much longer the president is going to be able to lead from behind. we went into kosovo, went far fewer people that were killed. went into bosnia where far fewer people were killed. everybody, all of the official washington rose up and said it was immoral for us to turn our eyes to such suffering and yet, again, you know, by the summer we're probably going to be talking about 100,000 people slaughtered in syria. >> well, i think on this one, gene is right, and the president's reluctance to do something is absolutely right. what are we going to do? open yet another war in the middle east, look at the state of united states. what would happen to us if we started down that road? the problem, i think, though, is we have wanted to support a low level conflict by saying assad must go with no way to back it up. we said there were red lines with no way to proceed if those lines were crossed no realistic way. again, the rhetoric and the reality have been on two different sides. i can't see us going into syria and starting another war with the state of the united states. what are we going to do? this is not our battle. and we were wrong to declare assad must go because we can't enforce that and shouldn't enforce that regime change doesn't work very well when the president of the united states puts down these demands. >> he said mubarak must go, well before, it looked like he was going to go. maybe the president should stop saying somebody must go unless he's going to -- >> well, that was also secretary of state clinton. this was a strange statement at the time. another declaration of regime change. but where was the policy that went along with it? i never thought it was a policy that went along with it. >> go ahead, senator. >> well, and ultimately, everything that happened in the arab spring happened organically from the ground in these countries. i mean, at the end of the day, didn't really matter what the u.s. was saying. the countries, the people themselves want a regime change. >> the problem, though, in syria is that we through the cia and the europeans are funding the rebellion putting in arms and doing other things and this is causing massive destruction but it's not changing the political balance, it's only putting the syrian people in the middle of this incredible violence. and we went into this as a proxy war against iran. this wasn't about assad from the beginning, this was about iran. and we went in a little bit. it's leading to massive introduction, but not leading to real solutions. i want us to stay out, not to go even deeper into it. >> so this is not our battle. i would say, perhaps, maybe jeffrey's opinion is that we have our own battles here at home and one of them is between you and wall street. i'll just -- >> absolutely. >> i'll take a look at some of your words. >> my goodness. >> you said recently -- >> there's a rhetorical equivalent of chemical warfare. >> yeah, dr. jeffrey sachs saying recently that wall street is full of crooks and hasn't reformed its pathological culture. >> too subtle. >> yeah. i don't really get it. but you did also say this bluntly and directly to a high-powered audience at the philadelphia federal reserve. >> yeah, they were a little bit. >> and you said that the lack of reform was down to a docile president, docile white house, and a docile regulatory system that absolutely can't find its voice. what has been revealed in my view is help me here, prima -- criminal behavior. >> that's right. actually, if we could go back to the journal -- >> "wall street journal." >> i don't know if you can see that, underneath the syria is insider trading probe, every single day, we have news of new lawsuits, new criminality. insider trading probe -- >> how often do you get to say that? >> convicted ceo quits one of the world's leading banks. brokerage ills stir auditor scrutiny. open up next page, lawsuit, $25 million, ratings firms charged with selling toxic assets or overlooking the deliberate sale of toxic assets. businesswoman sentenced for tax fraud. >> so, it sounds like systems working, right? they're going after them. >> it is a complete epidemic. out of control, every day. >> why? >> and these are epidemic of criminality and financial fraud. >> why the epidemic? what is causing the epidemic? >> because in the end, the markets were relieved that the cost of the settlement was $225 million. this in wall street terms is a slap on the wrist. you commit massive financial fraud and you get little slap on the wrist, okay, little penalty, you shouldn't have given aaa rating to those bonds. we understand, lots of people lost billions of dollars, you'll pay a little bit. and this goes on and on, and the other side of the story, which is linked is the other headline if i could say it in the financial times today, tax haven climbed down on data sharing. now tax havens, what are those? those are all the places where the hedge funds are operating, where the big money is kept. it's massive secrecy all over the world. 80% or 90% of our hedge funds are domiciled in the cayman islands where they have complete secrecy, no tax payments. this is such a rigged system on all sides. >> gene, the system is so rigged. i've often wondered why republicans along with democrats don't go after the rigged system more aggressively because it would be politically potent for either party to just say, there are two sets of rules. there are rules that billionaires live by and there are rules that the rest of us live by. >> that could have something to do with the large checks that he writes to political campaigns. i'm just saying, that could have something to do with it. now, look, certainly republicans haven't done it, the democrats haven't done it when they did supposed financial regulatory reform. that not only did it go far enough, it didn't go anywhere in terms of attacking, i think, the root problems that jeff sachs so wonderfully points out. so sadly points out, actually, because it's still going on, it's going to continue, and until somebody cleans it up. >> you know, the real -- >> still waiting. >> the real tragedy to me in the banking system. and jeff, you and i have talked about this before, the fact that it's still so disconnected from the real economy that it's supposed to serve. if you look back at the numbers since the '80s. as the financial system has gotten bigger, it's like strangling the rest of the economy. the level of entrepreneurial activity has fallen. and i don't know what we need to do to reconnect those two things. because when we bailed out the banks, we were sold the idea that we had to do that so they could lend to everybody else. but that still p isn't happening. and, in fact, the headlines i read say we're back to complex securitization, the rise of the great recession. >> a lot, gene, a lot of reinvestment into the community that helped crush the financial system. there are a lot of hedge funds starting to jump back into the real estate market because it's at the bottom and they're taking another huge gamble. you wonder, gene, you're in washington, how could it be that after september 15th, 2008, and we elected the democratic president who said he was gog to change the system the democratic majority. you had at times a filibuster approved senate. how could it be that the progressives that have campaigned against wall street greed for so long because, you know, a lot of people -- how could it be that they didn't reform the system? you just said they didn't reform it. why? >>obody wanted -- wanted to do any sort of fundamental reform. and from the administration's initial proposals. for example, we were all talking about these toxic synthetic derivatives and this huge gazillion dollar unregulated unforeseen market that had essentially caused everything to crash because they were making the stuff up. and when you looked at the administration's proposed reforms, the reforms got through. it really didn't attack that at all at base. it said, no, you can go ahead and keep creating these things. i remember talking to secretary of the treasury geithner about that specific issue at the time. and he said, well, you know, if we outlaw this and that, they'll just make up something more exotic and they'll always be a step ahead of us. so we're not even going to try. and it was decision to do incremental, very small reforms that didn't actually reform anything. and as to why, i don't know. >> but, gene, you exactly said why, and i think people would be interested in visiting one website open secrets.org, which lists the amount of lobbying and campaign contributions by sector, finances right at the top more than $5 billion of lobbying since 1998 until now and the largest single sector in financing the 2012 election cycle. the money is huge, and when president obama came in, you know, he brought in wall street. right into the white house, into the inner core, this was a wall street from beginning to end, top to bottom administration. and you still look at the senior economic officials, they're from city group. once in a while, there's a little diversify, they have jpmorgan, they've had others, but basically, it's really a wall street group. and it's not surprising that we don't have that reform. >> have you ever been to opensecrets.org? it's a great website. i hate it when it was in congress. w we've got the pie chart. my two biggest contributors were owners of dog tracks and bingo parlor. it's a bigger problem. but no, they spell it out, pie graphs, who gave you the money? how much they give from what zip codes. pretty crazy. >> okay. >> a lot of money, bingo. >> i think you're making -- >> which is why foreign policy begins at home. >> yes. >> dr. jeffrey sachs, thank you. stay with us. still ahead, kal penn will be here. he's teamed up with the discovery channel to find america's next great innovator. and why good foreign policy has to start here at home. that's the topic of the new book by richard haass. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. the american dream is of a better future, a confident retirement. those dreams have taken a beating lately. but no way we're going to let them die. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help keep your dreams alive like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does. and that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪ a foggy washington, d.c. on this tuesday morning. welcome back to "morning joe." back at the table, the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass, the author of the new book out today, and let's start with syria because as we discussed last block with our other guests. so many of the questions we've faced with iraq and afghanistan over the past ten years, we now face with syria. >> the short answer is we've got to put a limit on what we do. at some point you keep pouring more and more whether it's human resources, military resources, economic resources and you're just not going to get a return in any way on your investment. it's hard. it's hard sometimes to stand back when you see bad things going on. there's a great line in godfather iii where michael goes, every time i want to pull away, they keep pulling me back. and the united states, though, has to resist the temptation to allow the middle east to totally dominate. it's done it now for more than a decade. there's big stuff going on elsewhere in the world. in asia, where the great powers of the 21st century are potentially colliding. in north america, where we've got 450 million people and we're on the cusp of a massive energy boon. we've got to focus on rebuilding the bases of american power just so we can be effectively involved in the world. so sometimes leadership is putting ceilings, putting limits on what it is you do. and that's what the united states needs to do in the middle east. >> that would be very difficult i think at this point in syria. jon meacham? >> you had two great tours in government, two very different administrations. both bushes, what was the difference in the early part of the 21st century to the early part of the 1990s that you think was most critical. >> well, by the time president bush, the second president bush became president, the united states had an unparalleled position. it was only the united states. and we enjoyed tremendous discretion in the world. when the previous president bush was in office, the cold war and all that. so when the second president bush became president, we had much greater choice in what he chose to do was essentially the iraq war after 9/11. he saw that as the defining moment. and then he went on to say and what the united states needs to do is take on as its mission the promotion of democracy in the world. that was to me, i disagreed with it. i simply thought the united states had more limited interests in the world. and again, we needed to think strategically about what it was we could realistically accomplish. the limits to our ability to remake other societies. really the primacy of local realities. the one lesson i took from vietnam from the first gulf war and from both iraq and afghanistan is local realities trump global abstractions. i think the first president bush understood that. the second president bush, look at his library. what he wants to do is talk about the spread of democracy and freedom around the world. i do not believe that can be at the core of american foreign policy. >> i'm interested to hear you use terms like return on investment around foreign policy. what kind of grade would you give hillary clinton's economic state craft? because that was an important part of what she was trying to do and what else do you think we should be doing on that score? >> well, the big thing that was missing, two things, one was trade. we're now finally seeing a trade is a great engine of american economic growth, good jobs through exports, great way to knit together the world. now we finally have a serious trade initiative across the atlantic and i would say let's bring mexico and canada in as well as the europeans. we got a trade negotiation with the major countries of the pacific except china. that's a start there. the bigger thing that was missing was something that wasn't under secretary clinton, that was getting the american economy right. we talked about it before, simpson/bowles, dealing with entitlements, we're growing, you know this, we're growing at roughly half the historical average after world war ii. we have got to get that up. that means dealing with tax reform, dealing with immigration reform, improving our schools so our workers are more competitive. it means above all dealing with fiscal challenges so business feels the confidence and the predictability that it needs to invest here at home. that's what we need to do. that was not something the secretary of state could do. >> paul said we didn't have to worry about deficits for the next decade and really didn't have to worry about medicare until it started going bankrupt in 2025. you pushed back pretty hard on that. >> as my e-mail suggested. >> and that's a big part of this book that we can't keep running up deficits or debt. how does long-term debt impact america's standing in the world? >> one is it leaves us vulnerable to the machinations of deficits. it crowds out the rest of our spending. interest rates are not going to remain where they are now. they're only going one direction, that's up. and again, that's going to squeeze out -- >> let me interrupt you. you're not talking about austerity. there are a lot of simple-minded people that follow paul krugman on twitter and around the streets of princeton and elsewhere that think if you talk about long-term debt they get really confused, walk around in circles and start muttering austerity, austerity, austerity. for these very simple people, will you explain when we talked about long-term debt and speak really slowly because they're just not smart. can you explain to them that you're not talking about austerity, you're talking about taking care of long-term debt. not the next business cycle, not the next year, but the next decade. the next generation. >> we don't want to get to the point where the u.s. budget essentially goes either to paying back the money we owe interest on the debt or on entitlements, on retirement and medicare. and that's where we're heading. and that means there's going to be virtually nothing left for things to deal with national security and there's going to be virtually nothing left for investment for our schools, for our infrastructure, all things domestic. if we want to avoid that, invest on our own future, we have got to do something about our long-term entitlement responsibilities and obligations. and you can't do it when it hits. you know, joe, you can't suddenly flip retirement age. you can't suddenly change the terms of medicare when people are about to turn 65. you've got to do it in advance. >> that's what's so asinine about paul krugman's assessment. we'll worry about it when we worry about it. if you really want to know, and i don't think his followers are smart enough to figure this out. what austerity is. austerity's not taking care of medicare and social security a generation out, it's what's happening in greece now because greece was reckless where you're a postal worker and you get a postcard in the mail one week that says your retirement benefits are changing next week. that's austerity. that's what's happening in spain. that's what's happening in greece. that's what's happening in countries that didn't plan ahead. gene, all we're talking about is planning ahead. and the question is, and i salute president obama right now because the president actually is talking about at least cpi and now you've got the head of the republican political operation on the hill attacking him for that. i don't know that either party's got the guts to do what has to be done to avoid this crisis that richard's talking about. >> well, you know, the problem, joe, is -- and forgive me, but this is becoming kind of a tiresome argument because obviously there are two things that have to be done. obviously you have to look at and take care of long-term debt, crowd out the kind of spending and growth that we need. obviously you also have to promote short-term growth because growth only helps us with our long-term debt situation as we grow the economy, it becomes a smaller part of a smaller problem as a percentage of gdp and more manageable. so you have to -- you have to try to do both things. instead, somehow we do neither. and that's what's so frustrating as we keep arguing one or the other when both are needed and neither is being done. >> wow. all right, the book is "foreign policy begins at home." the case for putting america's house in order. richard, congratulations. thank you. coming up, it's being called a must-read. >> this is a must-read book. >> it is. we're saying that. >> you're saying you have another must-read book this morning? >> well, this is what they're saying. fans of abraham lincoln are saying that. it took 26 years to write it. first, nbc's pete williams joins us live with new details into the investigation of boston marathon bombing. >> the president says they call him big poppi around the newsroom. >> we'll be right back. for seeing your business in a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action. 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[ telephone ringing ] [ static warbles ] [ beeping ] red or blue? ♪ red or blue? i've always kept my eye on her... but with so much health care noise, i didn't always watch out for myself. with unitedhealthcare, i get personalized information and rewards for addressing my health risks. but she's still going to give me a heart attack. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. when their communities needed them, they were there, making sense of the events that might at first seem beyond our comprehension, and that's what great journalism is and that's what great journalists do. and that's why, for example, pete williams' new nickname around the nbc newsroom is big poppi. >> the investigation into the boston bombing is now spanning the globe, extending from the cia headquarters to russia to a dartmouth dorm room. pete, what can you tell us? >> well, i think one of the things they're following right now is a piece of female dna that they say was found on one of the pieces of the pressure cookers that were used to build the marathon bombs, may be surprising that can actually survive a bomb explosion, but it can. and an fbi team was doing a search monday at the rhode island house where tamerlan tsarnaev's widow has been living since the bombing, and officials say they left with a sample of her dna. they caution this could've come from a variety of sources, from one of the victims, perhaps, from someone who may have touched it before the crime scene was completely sealed off or even from an employee in a store that sold one of the pressure cookers. but they are going to analyze that now and see what they come up with. she has said she was shocked by the attack, she had no idea that her husband was planning it. law enforcement officials say they found nothing so far in searching boston area landfills, but still looking through garbage containers in the area because they're concerned someone may have carried items out of dzhokhar tsarnaev's dorm room a few days after the marathon bombings. they say it's not clear whether whoever did that knew they were destroying evidence or was doing something to help a friend. and as for dzhokhar, he's still in a prison hospital, but his lawyers and prosecutors have begun very early talks about a possible deal in which he could avoid the death penalty and return for a full accounting to the fbi of what happened and why. and his lawyers have added an experienced death penalty expert judy clark of california to his legal team. >> i understand the interest of tamerlan's wife. what about the mother at this point? where does she stand in all of this? >> well, she is still overseas. they have talked about coming here, she and her husband talked about coming here. so far, put that off. he said he's not feeling well. she hasn't decided whether to come. the fbi and u.s. officials have talked to her. they'll undoubtedly want to talk to her some more. she continues to insist she had nothing to do with it, but, of course, now we know that it was a russian wiretap of her that first got the russians interested in him in her son, tamerlan, and that's why they sent, they say now, this request to the fbi two years ago in 2011 to ask for more information about him. >> all right. nbc's pete williams, thank you very much. >> you bet. >> up next, who will be the next steve jobs? kal penn and the discovery channel are searching for america's next great innovator. kal joins us next when "morning joe" comes right back. i'm with clemmie, who is looking to save to help make ends meet. what if you could save over $500 bucks a year by changing one small thing? yeah, let's do it! let's do it. the average fast food breakfast can run you over $4 a meal per person. i know. walmart has a ton of breakfast options. a meal like this costs about $1.64 per serving. if you replace just one fast food breakfast each week with a breakfast like this from walmart, your family of four can save over $500 bucks a year. wow, that's amazing! and i could cook for you. 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[squeals] ♪ [ewh!] [baby crying] the great thing about a subaru is you don't have to put up with that new car smell for long. introducing the versatile, all-new subaru forester. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. now, remember, guys, the two boxes on your truck have been wrapped with detonating cord. if your package reaches 25-gs, it will blow sky high. let's do this. here comes the blue one. here we go. >> oh, my gosh. >> this is insane. >> slide, baby, slide. >> oh, my. that was a -- that was from the series premiere of discovery channel's "the big brain theory" pure genius. i want to see how that ends. with us here now, the host of the show, former national cochair of the obama campaign, kal penn. the concept of the show is fantastic. >> it's an awesome concept. we found ten of the best young american engineers out there. they compete in a challenge show, similar to top chef, engineer challenges. they have a limited amount of time, budget, a lot of these guys have worked on everything from the mars rover to the nuclear submarines. it's been fun. >> so this we're looking at is -- what's going on here? >> so the first challenge, it's sort of like your worst math equation if you're not a math fan. two trucks traveling at 25 miles an hour. they have explosives in the back. and the challenge they have to come up with, figure out a way to minimize the g-forces so the explosives don't detonate when the collision happens. i have no idea how you do that? but they have the skill set. >> the worst problem in your s.a.t.s. >> the nice thing about it, these guys have to come up with a creative solution, not just the math -- >> it's not just they don't get into harvard. >> no -- >> they blow it to kingdom come. >> they lose, the winner gets $50,000 and a one-year contract at the design firm, which is the most coveted job for innovators and engineers. >> i want to hear about other possible innovations you'll be looking at. but first of all, let's get philosophical. >> okay. >> this taps into what we're looking for in this country. something a lot of us here at the table feel we lack as a nation. and we're perhaps sort of wayward. can you talk more about that? >> definitely, look, this is something i was passionate about. the discovery folks are, as well. we want to see more young folks go into science, technology, engineering and math. it's the one thing that's going to help us compete against india, china and brazil. and those folks are out there, right. you've got the political side of it where the president's investing $4 billion in stem education and that's amazing for the next 20 years. but right now, there are also people just doing it. they're out there, they're young. if you look at most of these guys, they don't look like our version of what engineers look like. if anyone can make science cool, it's discovery channel. and we thought why not find these guys, team them together, make a show out of it? >> it's interesting. i'm curious what motivates them and what fosters that creativity. it's not just about getting an engineering degree. these people are creative, creative thinkers. how do you teach that? >> allison has a design background, and i think a lot of these guys had had exposure to the arts when they were young. so it's not just stem, stem dishes out great engineers. they have an innovation component, what kicks into the math and science that helps them think creative. you get to know them over the course of the eight episodes. >> we actually have hundreds of thousands if not more jobs going vacant in this country. >> right. >> we don't have enough young people. who have these skills. it's a real challenge for k-12 and beyond community colleges and beyond. how are we going to continue to provide a workforce that fills the jobs that are -- fills in the jobs. >> innovates and makes jobs. >> one of the amazing things with the apple folks in addition environmental law, one of the bigger things we were not seeing manufacturing here is we didn't have enough engineers on site. the hope is the political side of this will change. >> we were at the white house science fair. recollect challenge this is season? creating a machine that can cook for a group of famished tourists here at the santa monica pier, a portable biker that is able to with stand fire. constructing a robot capable of competing in three different athletic events. where do you get the idea or do they come to you? >> the ideas came from the concept of the show and you see the goys light up. other documentaries do yell and scream at each other. they believe they have the answer. the best answer to an engineering solution. the practical applications and race cars and all of that. it was cool to see how they get excited. >> a lot of the show you have to look for the right characters. here i think it's counter intuitive. if you capture the light bulb moment, anyone becomes a character. you get to see this happening in their minds and having to carry it out. >> it's not just sports stars, you are showing the kid who signs and they can do important things. >> how many women compared to men. >> this is something we would see change in terms of the applicant and fewer women than men. >> thank you. >> thanks for having me on. i hope you like it. >> the big brain theory. pure genius appears on the discovery channel. >> chuck todd and ben smith joins the conversation. brewed by starbucks. can acne cleansers be tough on breakouts and be good for your face? 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it seems like friday. >> it does. every tuesday it feels like friday to me. >> it is. stay in bed and water the dog or the lawn. not the dog. >> john meachem is here and richard hoss is here. in miami, jonathan cape hart. here we go. new polling that points to a big drop in support for a number of senator who is voted against background checks for gun sales. some people might be surprised by this. >> the knowledge is contrary. keeping guns out of the hands of terrorists. they suspected that someone -- >> usually there is a target. >> the fbi most wanted suspects saying please keep your system the same because we become more american. we never say that coming. >> character is a journey, not a destination. >> i was saying all of that. >> what do the numbers say? >> the bottom line is this is a reality. what's reality? let's look at the reality. republican senator jeff flake. >> 70% approval rating. >> has a minus 19 net approval rating. the least popular sitting senator. he eclipses minority leader mitch mcconnell. >> he lost 19 points. that's unbelievable. >> net approval is minus 19 and he's in a different state. john mccain voted for background checks. >> senator lessa murcowski once the most popular senator is down a net 16 points from february. senator rob portman dropped 16 points and in nevada dean heller has a smaller drop, but he is shedding support of the key independents. we showed you senator kelly ayotte from a positive to a net negative now. >> supporting background checks, each of those rangeing for 60% in alaska to 75% in new hampshire. you saw this poll and it works the other way. you have the other side in charge of this bill. he actually registered his highest approval ratings ever since he has been a united states senator. >> what do we make of all this? >> this is pretty obvious stuff. they said it's obvious stuff. there is no doubt some are going to be heart more than others. jeff flake is in a free fall. we will see what happens to heidi when her time comes. >> the real question is when people do go to the polls or asked to donate monchy and get politically organized, whether they pay a price and whether people reap a benefit. that's the real question of whether it's six months or a year from now. >> let's talk about money. that's what lot of them worry about. you can't talk about other states. i know in the state of florida, the top republican fund-raisers in the state. a man who ran george w. bush's finance campaign and jeb bush's. the top republicans in florida are getting together and saying we are not going to give you another dime until you pass rational gun legislation. they are not talking the salt weapon, but background checks and gun trafficking. that's a game changer. on the other front, they can drop 18 percentage points and rob portman. will people do that six nths from now. this is an issue. you put them in a 30 second ad, they look extreme and out of touch whether they run 14, 16, or 18. this will be terrible. the side can be rational and follow the majority once and one is over the hands of terrorists. >> senators were more of a vocal opponen opponents. i remember two or three television appearances and he was extremely unclear about where he was against background checks. there a lot of people who didn't feel he was necessarily coming true. >> i don't know about that. i have a feeling that they are going to be quietly behind the scenes. it will be like welfare reform. we republicans will keep sitting in welfare reform. he had no choice. i think you have these people and jeff lost 20%. he's going to want to find the support to tell his people that. >> it's interesting. they will have to do something if they want to turn the corner. this is the principal debate. just again on sunday he said he wants to go back in and put something together and get this done. probably unless you turned, i'm not aware of why people would come out differently. you have two guys in the middle who have seen two mind sets about whether or not to keep pushing. >> seriously they want to see possibly some people like that and the republicans suddenly realized. you look at the best. the second, suddenly you are desperate to be on the right side of the 90% issue. politically it is not sustainable for a candidate to run in the general election. you are on the other side of the 90% interest. they will change. >> when they think the right thing is. >> on a practical political level, you are reading the polls and feeling good. is there an event or could someone come out and could there be a domino effect when we remember in 1991, the letter saying we should have more brady bill. the waiting periods. that's the debate. it there a leadership place for something to give these folks after the filing deadline passes, they can say you know what. >> a guy like george w. bush supported back ground checks and supported locks and all of those things. a guy like george w. bush after the primary would help, i think. 90% of the polls lost. >> people act differently and jeff flake is not going in. >> he's a solid steady guy. he is thinking if i can get another vote, i would be for it. >> he is running around with his hair on fire. >> let's start with peg cruz. >> good move. >> the freshman actually mocked senior party members. >> the facts as freshmen broke on friday by publicly discussing what went on before the tour when republicans krilt sized him. that will give democrats ammunition to portray the gop as obstructionists. crews hit back with the tea party aligned with freedom works. >> we had probably five or six lunches. with a bunch of senators standing up and yelling at us from the top of their loved ones. they said look, why did you do this? as a result of what you did, i can stand on principal. . >> a lot of people don't like to be held accountable. here was the argument. listen, before you did this, the politics of it were great. the dems were the bad guys and the republicans were the good guys and now we all look like a bunch of squishes. there is an alternative. you can not be a bunch of squishes. >> that's a smart move by the young senator. i encourage him to continue. >> to misrepresent what people say in the line. >> that's the key. >> lying about what the republican senators did. he is exaggerating. he is not lying about democrats, but about his own party. that's the problem. a lot of people in washington including myself, we know what went on inside those meetings. cruz is saying it's not true. >> they used to say it's important that no one ever got second best. no one ever comes out second best. >> jennifer ruben commented on ted cruz. what did she say? >> she writes don't be a jerk, senator cruz. putting down your colleagues to boost yore street with the base forcing them to be in the category. there many things wrong when a senator loses comments from a guy who likes banners. he tens to process whining suggesting immaturity and conservative governance. he may want to apologize for betraying confidence and think of what he wants to do with the senate. obstruction easy, governance is hard. >> the guy only has been in office since january and there is bipartisan agreement. senator cruz is a bit of a jerk. he is say jerk. the democrats don't like him, but republicans can't stand him. there was a day when ruth marcus and another -- the other columnist, someone from the right and someone leaning from the left gunning for ted cruz. that only hpens when people are sick and tired of your nonsense. especially somewhere like the senate. they want to send a message to you. watching that video couldn't care less what democrats think of him and what republicans think. >> this is the smallest of both. you and i have seen it through the years. one guy comes in and starts acting like this. just accidentally comes around and hits him in the back of the head several times. he doesn't realize how small thes en is and you make up stories about republicans and republican meetings that are supposed to be that way? it's not just what goes around comes around. this will come back. this is what's wrong with american politics. you want to say you have responsibility and you have to govern and forge the coalition and compromising instead of explaining to the galleries and you look at the source of why politics don't have that. >> coming up on "morning joe," a book on abraham lincoln that every admirer of the 16th president should read. they discuss his new book straight ahead. chuck todd and smith. >> he got a shout out from the president. sort of. >> at the white house correspondent's -- >> the media landscape is changing so rapidly. you can't keep up with it. i don't remember when buzz feed was something i did in college around 2:00 a.m. >> but first, speak of buzz feed, here's a check on the forecast. >> that was the object plug for buzz kill. let's talk about this forecast. we will watch heavy rain in southern louisiana, especially the new orleans area. we have a feature down in the gulf and a cluster of thunderstorms spinning down there. it's sliding through the coast up through new orleans as they go throughout the day. early afternoon. be prepared for two or three hours. nasty weather in new orleans. the weather map, look how beautiful and warm it is. don't get used to it. this here in billings is heading your way. the cold air will return for the first of may. it's a warm day and chicago is 82. minneapolis is 70. they snow in the days ahead. appreciate that 70. here's a look at it on wednesday. denver is to six inches of snow. from cheyenne to denver on the first day of may. it was 70 yesterday. by the time we get to thursday, that could head out to the plain. here's the snowball forecast. here's the latest. snow likely enough that you will have to plow and shovel on the third day of may. unbelievable to get the snow flakes out into areas like minneapolis and kansas city. unbelievable. let's not talk about the cold and the snow, but how beautiful it is in st. louis today. enjoy. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. 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[ male announcer ] book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. >> let's take a look at tim debow's new york jets career. ♪ nobody does it better ♪ makes me feel sad >> joining us now, ben smith and in washington, chief white house correspondent and "the daily rundown" there. any thoughts on tebow? >> i hope he gets a shot at playing quarterback somewhere. the nets never gave him a chance. that is say fact. i never have been a believer that he can be a great quarterback. he will be a great tight end some day, but the jets never gave him a chance and they messed around. >> all right, thank you. >> i can feel it. >> unnecessary hostility. >> her love of the game. >> all right. we have something going on here. a little conplating of an issue. democrats are having trouble potentially because of obama care and yet they keep refineing it and came out with news today at the white house making it easier for people to get access. >> it gets to the core challenge the administration has with implementing the health care law. getting people to sign up and more importantly getting people under 35 to sign up. that demographic group will make or break this health care law. if you get healthy people to get insurance that keeps rates down. if they don't show up, they don't get 2 1/2, three, 3.5 million folks to sign up for the health care, the numbers don't work. everything breaks. the premiums go up. there is not enough healthy people for it to balance out. why does it matter with the application process? the simple process means you won't have folks giving up or deciding it's too complicate and maybe they don't get enough for their money. that's what the attempt is. that's to go after the target group that they have to have to make the law work. that's 18 to 35-year-olds. >> it is three pages long. that definitely is a change. >> one of the ironies is they are aiming to take the health care from the poor and the elderly. you have to get the unhealthy people to pay more than they are getting. it is not obvious. >> do you think it will help? >> yeah, it can't hurt. there will be an effort that is incredibly complicated. >> i would love to get both of your takes. all of them are seeing a drop since the no votes on backgrounds with people who have a one plus one equals two. >> there a lot of reasons right now. i hesitated to suggest it's just that. this sense of overwhelming dysfunction. whether you can tease out the issue. >> what do you make of the numbers? some are dramatic in approval ratings. >> some are. i am always leery of the robo polling. i know some do better than others in this technology. i salute them at that. we will follow their numbers more closely than the others how you make it a press one or press two issue. i will be more interested to see, will you get democratic challengers for a guy like this for instance. i don't think that's going to happen. do you see democrats try to run against the flake on the issue of guns in arizona? i don't believe it. there is private polling telling this guy something different. they wouldn't have done what they are doing. they are somehow missing something and with the sed cruz comments, he is relating embroidered or mythical conversations where the colleagues were saying it makes it look like squishes. >> you know, i continue to go and find it remarkable that many privately say a lot of nice things for ted cruz for the long time republicans let alone democrats. he is a democratic boogie man. what i noticed is that there is this -- i'm sure i'm going to get it on twitter. why do you keep this private republican saying this or that. there is a lot of people uncomfortable with the way ted cruz has gone about his first 100 days. he will say this is what he got elected to do. he's supposed to shake things up. >> he has a niche for being a jerk in the senate. >> there is a way to put it. >> he was not able to work with them for meaningful legislation. this is the major breech of protocol and fixed in the health care law and have seen the jurns attacking and the republican leader and out of line, but also there were a lot of republicans who want that. >> one week left before the most watched congressional watch in south carolina. elizabeth colbert busch and mark sanford had what will likely be their only debate. they got from spending to health care to gun control. his personal past was brought up as well. >> we are talking about in the fiscal house, we need to look at from cutting spending to the costs. during the time that we have gotten all of this fiscal spending and cutting and back to the days where everybody was losing jobs and pulling our belts in, we talk about fiscal spending and taxpayers, it doesn't mean you take that money we save and lead the country for our personal purpose. >> i couldn't hear what she said. >> would you vote both ways again? >> i would reverse the question to you. i would say this. do you think that president clinton should be condemned for the rest of his life? >> during a whole different part of this, chuck todd, is that issue fair game? >> it's the last thing he did as an elected official. it's part of the resume. it's certainly a fair question because he did use taxpayer dollars. you can make the case that it's there. i was surprised at how aggressive she was on this. it's proof positive that this race is a lot closer than even republicans say. >> is it fair game? >> of course it is. it's out there. he brought in his fiance and was it his primary victory and something he is hiding and bill clinton is popular and you go to a bar and he said he was unfaithful, do you love bill clinton? yes. >> in this case, i am not going to make a case and i think it's fair game, but he married the woman and there many of them. fair game? >> sure. i do think if you are governor sanford, you can't have it both ways in the sense that you are running as a candidate. >> you talk about it and he has throughout his campaign and i think it's something he needs to do. >> we have to fast forward these days and give slightly more than the times. it's back out there. >> that's where i was going next. it's so interesting to see who is given a pass and who is not. it will be interesting to see what happens here on a number of levels. >> what i think matters most in whether the redemption works or doesn't work is whether you deliver in office for your constituents. the reason bill clinton is popular is he was an effective president. frankly in the first district of south carolina to congress is not a matter of great public moments, but if you get one of the folks and they are a force for good. >> exactly. >> i get uncomfortable when someone is trying to get personal redemption when they are using congress to do it. i have no doubt that mark sanford has principal positions and different things, but if he is still going through his own personal redemption process, why involve the rest of us. if you are not done, do it on your own. you have to involve the west of us. that was something uncomfortable. if you are not done, don't get us involved. >> the one thing i would say is it proved for some people that politics is an inherent part of who they are. >> not enough time. thank you very much. >> they are on the couch. >> on "the daily rundown." see you then. up next, we have impressive new work on the 16th president. 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[ female announcer ] neutrogena® naturals. ♪ i've got the power people lose 5x more weight following the weight watchers approach than trying on their own. you can too. ♪ ♪ you've got the power ♪ ♪ oh, yeah ♪ get the power the new weight watchers 360 program. ♪ whoo! join for free and check out the new risk free guarantee today. because it works. you can see what the president perceived on iraq and the financial crisis. there is an exact replica of the oval office with the desk and the bush white house for six years. it looks the same here as it was back at the white house. >> oh, my gosh. >> that are is awesome. with us now, the author of the new book, lincoln douglas and the conflict. i will tell you. one of the fascinating parts of the book is your focus on the senate race between lincoln and douglas. you put more emphasis on that than the extraordinary career. why? >> presidential candidates didn't campaign directly for themselves. if you want to see what they thought, you had to go to the senate debates. par r par pa one thing on the line is whether they can draw moral conflicts. if you fight, you may lose or may be transformed into something you don't want to be. >> a very interesting thing. you talk about a contrast between the two men and you said that douglas is madisonian. certainly on slavery, lincoln was not. he was an absolute and slavery is evil and wrong. give us that compromise. >> lincoln was willing to offer compromise as long as they had to go. he was not going to go out where they existed. douglas's attitude was that you have to offer a compromise the other side would tep. his view is i will give them a chance, but if they lose, they have to accept it. they were not even willing to accept that. >> what was it about lincoln's life experience that we saw in 1861, 62. >> he had a sense of what it was like to be human and mortal and fallen and limited. the unique feature is his ability to keep alive the idea that the bad guy is as human as he is. one of the important teaches is i don't want it to be different than me. >> it's a hard thing to love your enemy when you are fighting a violent war against your enemy, but imagine that sooner or later, he would live with that. >> lincoln's tragic pragmatism, his assumption is that north and south of there and they are not different in that way. each sees for definitely interest and self serving. each has no clear interested what it was fighting about. it was about slavery and race. the consequence of this vision is the recognition that every solution is going to be partial and compromised and dirty hands. and we have to protect each other in a forebearing and self-righteous way. >> for took you 26 years to write the book? >> it did. to explain this, i have to explain that. >> you talk about whether or not a nation can with stand a moral conflict. how does that reflect again? what's the modern days we are confronting or not? >> the problem is, sometimes it looks like you compromised your morality. you have to find a way to take a half loaf or one issue to mediate another. that didn't turn out to be possible on slavery. lincoln was trying to find a way to see what the other side really believed. when they argued slaves are property, that looks like a trumping answer. lincoln's answer is do you really believe that? if you believe that, why is it that you allow them to play with your slaves, but not with the slave dealer's children. >> it's fascinating going back the things that lincoln said on the campaign trail in 1859, 1860. how pragmatic eaves about slavery and the promises he made that he was not going to change the system and having to write letters asking why when he made the declaration and emancipation proclamation that he changed his mind. if i can save the union and preserve slavery, i will. i found i could not. he believed and his principaled reality is he wanted to save the union and whatever it took to do that and purge us from that sin was the mission. this is a man who produced more moral change without the sense of pragmatism and tragedy. >> the book is lincoln's pragmatism. nice tie and nice cover. >> congratulations on an extraordinary quarter century in the ebb making. >> right. today is business headlines with brian shackman next on "morning joe". >> welcome back to "morning joe." the treasury is paying down the debt for the first time in years. is that right? >> it's 2007. $35 billion worth of debt being retired. they expected to take out another $103 billion. a decent swing. tax receipts are up and spending is basically flat. it's not necessarily going to be a trend. this quarter is always pretty good because of the tax season. next quarter nay are expected to borrow $223 billion. it is not necessarily a trend, but a big deal if it hasn't happened in six years. >> it's now $16.5 trillion? is that right? >> right. we are supposed to come in about $850 billion for the year. that's not a trillion dollars, but it's a lot of money. >> it's only taken us five or six years to double that. >> i'm to go my best and they paying my taxes. >> you keep it up. the middle engine that could like the red sox. i think i can. >> thank you, brian. up next, lewis manages to harass celebrities and embarrass us all in one fail swoop. >> sharon stone's phone number. >> the dinner, we will never be invited to ever again on "morning joe." for seeing your business in a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action. oh, boy. 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[ male announcer ] book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. welcome back to "morning joe." what did you learn? >> i learned they spent 26 years writing a book about lincoln's tragic pragmatism. looks great. >> as i look for that trench and interview, sharon stone does care a lot about america. >> the future of america. >> we're care about the fast. >> what did you learn? >> those who wanted to do the right thing and the politically beneficial thing misfired when they voted no

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