Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20120221

something very special here. the great lakes, but also all the little inland lakes that dot the parts of michigan. i love cars. >> those are true human feelings. expressed by a man who is definitely not just listing things he can see out the window. >> there we go. >> it's mardi gras. >> wow, that's 5:00 a.m. on bourbon street. a live pictures from new orleans. look at that, there's carville. >> he's in there somewhere. it's tuesday, february 21st, mardi gras, with us on set, msnbc contributor, mike barnicle and mark halperin and msnbc analyst john heilemann, together they're the co-authors of "game change" and the upcoming "game change ii: this time it's personal." and the "game change" film on hbo. did i leave anything out? >> we have terrific notes. is anybody else with us? >> lots of people. may i finish? >> jillian teck the financial editor of the "financial times" and down in washington, our good friend, the former chairman of the rnc, michael steele. >> john heilemann was present when mitt romney declared he loved lakes and cars. >> you were there? >> i was there. >> what was it like in person? >> it was awesome. it happened last thursday? so it's been, it's amazing to me it's taken this long for the world to catch up to the poetic glories. >> we were all over it friday. >> it was an amazing thing. he goes on, the whole clip, he keeps going on and on about it. it's like stream of consciousness, you know, he starts talking about when he was a kid, he used to be able to describe, you look at one square foot of a car, he could tell what it was. and now he doesn't get it because of the japanese cars. it was great. a stark contrast between him and rick santorum, who i saw the next day, speaking to a faith and freedom coalition. rick santorum does not do that kind of rap. >> how does it play in the room, do the people in michigan feel he's their favorite son? >> yeah, there's a lot of people in michigan who remember george romney and the whole romney family really favorably. in that crowd he was giving that speech at a chamber of commerce event not that far from where he grew up in a relatively affluent suburb of detroit. it was, they were his people in that room and he had the people i think thought it was a little antic, but also really appreciated it. really appreciate him. that's the backbone of how he's going to win the primary if he's going to do it. he's got the whole state's establishment and he's playing on the favorite son card very hard there. it may work for him, despite the polls. >> did you hear anybody, overhear anybody in that room wondering what the right size of trees meant? >> there was some commentary afterwards about what that meant. >> you know what he meant, it was familiar, he was home. >> we should, shins we talking about the sound byte, for our viewers who have not seen it, just play the whole thing. >> a little history. i was born and raised here. i love this state. it seems right here, the trees are the right height. i like -- i like seeing the, i like seeing the lakes. i love the lakes, just something very special here. the great lakes, but also all the little inland lakes that dot the -- the parts of michigan. i love cars. i don't know, i mean i group up totally in love with cars. i used to be in the '50s and '60s, if you showed me one square foot of almost any part of a car, i could tell you what brand it was the model. now with all the japanese cars i'm not quite so good at it. but i still know the american cars very well. i drive a mustang. i love american cars, long may they rule the world. let me tell you. >> michael steele, we chuckle a bit at that sound byte. but it does as john say, show the contrast between mitt romney and rick santorum. i guess the authenticity question. >> it's like a check list, it's like you're reading off of a check list, i touch trees, i've got cars. mention inlets and waterways. i mean, yeah, i'm sure the people in the room, who are romney folks really feel it but you know, for the rest of the folks out there who are going to be going to the polls, part of this ground game of republicans that you're going to need in the fall, you don't. and it doesn't come off as authentic enough, it seems forced, it seems contrived almost. and it's unfortunate to say, i've seen romney in a room where he does wax personal and it's very moving and very touching. that just to me comes off kind of forced. and you have santorum, who relates it to you know his grandfather and you know, hands that are you know, numb from you know, digging in the mines. that's a very different narrative. and people identify with that, particularly in hard times. >> so mark halperin, that was thursday, let's put that behind us and look forward. what does the romney campaign do over the next week? we've heard a lot about perhaps vaporizing rick santorum in a way they vaporized newt gingrich in florida, is that the strategy this week? >> it is, and they're on the air, as well as the super pac with ads. part of running the president is controlling the national media narrative and the national media narrative, santorum is having a horrible 96 hours. this thing of romney's from thursday lives on. not just on this program, but you hear people talking about it all over the place. within the chattering class and political circles. big events this week, the debate tomorrow night in arizona, romney's speech on the economy on friday. wl whether he wins or loses in michigan, he's going forward. he's got the best chance to be the nominee. he's got to start driving an image of himself with a serious focus on policy and ideas. the chance to beat the president, all these things and not create these iconic moments that are just going to live on for a good long while and undermine the image he wants to project. >> julian, yesterday we talked about this for a bit. but the idea that we're talking about theology and i love lakes and trees, when the front pages of all of our papers are, we know, we're reading stories again, a near-collapse in another bailout in greece. when are they going to get their act together? are they ever going to get their act together? >> well rick santorum was trying to shift the debate away from the theology debate on to gas prices and the economy. the economy is still there and it's a real problem. the eurozone, they've had another bailout. but even if they had the bailout, 130 billion euros, $170 billion. we've got a great scoop of the f.t. saying there's a confidential document going around the eurozone ministers saying the bailout is not going to work. it's not getting their act together and they more they crush them down with this austerity package, the more the population is squealing and making the problem worse. and it's all feeding back to america, because there's no question that the stock markets will be a lot higher right now, were it not for the fact that you've had this eurozone problems. >> the world markets look at the band-aid solution and it's not fixing the larger problem that greece and europe have? >> it's a case of one step forward, one and a half step backwards of the that's been the story of the last year and it's really sapping our confidence. what is needed right now in the u.s. and the eurozone is a boost in confidence. for people to actually believe the economy is going places. >> in addition to confidence, you hear business people in this country moan all the time about you know, what's the lack of certainty with all these new regulations, we don't know what's going to happen going down the road because of the lack of certainty. isn't this the ultimate uncertainty? greece? >> absolutely. we've got another great scoop on the front page of the "f.t." this morning which says that u.s. companies are not giving guidance for their earnings this season because they're so concerned about the future. and you look at surveys about what the u.s. companies are saying about their own position right now. most of them are saying well as far as my company is concerned, it's kind of okay. it's ticking a i along, we're maybe hiring people. as far as the economy, we have no idea where it's going, there's huge uncertainty right now. it's feeding into the wider economy and the political debate as well. >> mitt romney has been talking about the economy. rick santorum, the last 96 hours has been mired in these social issues, talking about the president's theology. again yesterday in michigan, here's rick santorum. >> so i was criticized by saying that the president has a radical environmental ideology and even a theology. it's one that puts man just like any other species out there. and that the earth is the objective. we worship the earth or we, we focus on the earth and we don't worry about man. and his like. and he's just well, he's just, he's out there trying to abuse the earth. whereof course we believe that man has dominion over the earth and is the steward of the earth. so what is this? that somehow that man is a parasite? that somehow or another we, that these riches that we find in the ground are liabilities, not assets. and that somehow or another, we shouldn't explore them. that we should drive up costs. that we should make it more expensive for people. this is a president who has his priorities all out of whack. >> so santorum saying again yesterday, this is not an attack on the president's faith, but on his environmental theology. last night, santorum was on fox news. brought the reverend jeremiah wright back into the mix. >> he went to reverend wright's church for 20 years. you can question what kind of, what kind of theology reverend wright has, but it's a christian church, he says he's a christian church. he goes it a christian church now. he says look, i'm not going to question what the president believes in when it comes to his faith. but i am going to question what he's doing in this country to drive up the cost of energy, destroy this economy and do so at the behest of a bunch of radical environmentalists who do, who do in fact want to drive up the cost of energy and slow down this economy. >> mr. heilemann, i have a question for you. >> okay. >> based upon those two clips that we just watched. when you're out in the country, pulling together all sorts of things for your daily reports, as well as "game change ii" do you get the sense that the country is ready to elect as president of the united states, someone 0 who continually comes off as angry as rick santorum? >> look, i think that angry is not a good posture for any political candidate. and optimistic and forward-looking and sunny is always a better disposition. but you know, you think about the, it's really interesting, the republican party, between mitt romney and rick santorum, they are playing to very different kinds of coalitions. the people that rick santorum has decided are going to be the ones he focuses on and he has the most traction with, are evangelical voters, tea party people and frustrated, angry, in his view, working, white working class voters. that's his coalition. mitt romney has a different coalition, more upscale, better educated, more professional. and santorum, i think that as a way of trying to win a republican primary, in a lot of states that are coming up, it might not be the worst strategy for santorum. he's not going to pick off a lot of the upscale voters that mitt romney appeals to in the republican party. he's got this much more downscale, grassroots coalition that he's trying to put together. you think about places like oklahoma, tennessee, georgia, ohio to a certain extent and in michigan, there's a large bloc of voters for whom there is frustration and he's trying to tap into that. and it's a path that he sees as to how to win this primary. >> hey, mark, are you up? >> yes, sir, i'm just thinking about numbers. >> whatever happened to newt gingrich? >> he's part of the numbers i was thinking about. when you think about where we are, we don't have great polling in arizona and michigan, there's polling, but not the kind we normally would like to have. if you assume gingrich and ron paul split about 20% of the vote, okay. that leaves 80%. i'm no math genius, i was working on the abacus during "way too early." so someone has to get to 40. and rick santorum nor mitt romney has got to 40. whoever goes into next tuesday as the momentum candidate, think will probably win. santorum today is still the momentum candidate. romney has done nothing since santorum won those three contests, gingrich is not taking up enough space, to go to your gingrich question, to stop santorum right now. romney has to find a way to become the momentum candidate i think if he's going to hold off santorum in michigan. >> that's why the economic speech he's doing is so important, i think because he's not had a positive, forward-looking, proactive economic message throughout his entire really since he put out his 59-point plan throughout these primaries and caucuses you've not heard mitt romney make a forward-looking conservative economic pitch. if he can do that, at ford field, late next week, he could seize the momentum on the back of a good debate performance, this friday. if he does not, if that speech falls flat and is seen widely as falling flat, he's going to have a real problem. >> on the key issue, it's basically whether they can go from products to program. can they provide something for people to believe in and feel good about. it's very interesting that we have the debate switched towards gas prices in recent days, i think we're going to care a lot more about that. there's real tensions building yet again in the middle east. we've seen gas prices, oil prices hit $121. there are people forecasting it can go up to $135, $150, it will be bad news for the american consumers and whether any of the republican candidates can pull out some kind of program that's going to show how they're going to tackle that is going to be critical. >> michael steele in washington, what if we wake up tomorrow, a week from tomorrow on wednesday morning and rick santorum has won michigan and arizona. what does this race look like? >> well, you know, the fellows on the set wrote the book, "game change." you know i think that would then be called reset. i think you're looking at a complete reset of what happens next in terms of momentum. you're just talking about the momentum piece. i think the whole thing changes. if you see a michigan win by santorum, if he comes close in arizona, right now he's three down in arizona, you know, lord knows if he winds up winning arizona, you're talking a total reset of this process. the establishment in this town will pull whatever little hair they have left out of their head. you're going to hear the clamoring as you're beginning to hear yet again for some white knight in shining armor to come into this thing. but the base, i'll go back to what i've been saying for the last six, seven months, but the base of the party are telling the establishment, we have got this. when you look at the michigan situation, what you're seeing there is people on the ground identifying with santorum. his message is resonating in a way that, yeah, a lot of us, you know, may not think it's kosher or sounds just right. but it does to the people that it's important to. and that's all that matters. i think what mark said a little bit earlier. is dead on point that the dynamics here are working in someone's, in santorum's favor right now. he's playing that angle. and the thing about it is, i think we need to be careful with our, you know, our view, with our nose in the air on this stuff. there are a lot more people out there that agree with some of what rick is saying that may surprise us. they don't show up in polls, they're not going to raise their hand and profess it up front. i've been in the walmarts and heard them. you know, you know, it's making a little bit of sense there. there's a lot at play here and next week is going to be big for this thing going forward. >> i think michael steele is going forward, about the murmur below polling level. so mark halperin, i want to ask you, i find it mildly interesting as john pointed out, mitt romney has this big speech scheduled for friday in michigan. now it will certainly be covered in print, you know, saturday and sunday. but electrically, tv, where most people get their view of what's going on in the campaign and it sets the tone -- it won't be covered. >> yeah. and chris wallace reported over the weekend that he's told there's going to be nothing new in it it will just be a restatement of his previous policies. i'll tell you another difference between romney and santorum. you look at "the new york post" editorial page, which is often a good sign of figuring things out. romney has been pounded by the press for months, right? you don't ever hear, you don't ever read in the "new york post" editorial page, lay off our guy, we need to rally around him this is the press going after the strong republican. the press going after santorum now, right? this page got two columns, two people saying we're going to rally now for rick santorum because the liberal media is going trying to attack our strong candidate. a real sign of strength for rick santorum, as he's pounded, because if it begins to backlash at sarah palin and other strong conservatives have inspired, it's an advantage in the republican process. >> he's the establishment candidate, romney and yet the establishment has come to really doubt whether he can win in the fall against obama and so they're not going to rally for him. they look at him and think, he might be already terminally wounded. they're not there for him, they're not the bulwark that a normal establishment candidate would have. >> the media doesn't like him. >> when i said santorum could win michigan and arizona here, your eyes popped out of your head. do you think it's unlikely? >> i think he can, it would be so cataclysmic, i'd have to clear my schedule. if he wins in both, it's very big. >> it would put you in a different bracket in the tournament. the afternoon bracket. when we come back an exclusive first look at politico's first stories of the morning, plus stephen colbert returns, clears up some of the rumors swirling around his absence. but first, bill karins with the forecast. >> mardi gras, new orleans is looking great, but chicago has snow. temperatures are plenty warm, it's melting, but you'll probably get a little accumulation on the grass and car. northern illinois and southern portions of wisconsin, including milwaukee, you'll see snowflakes mixing in. turning into rain during the day. what a warmup we're going to see on the east coast. today, d.c., 54, chilly morning, cold out there now, but this afternoon it will be warmer. a chance of showers late in the day, buffalo pittsburgh. and look at new york city, we'll see three days in a row of mid to upper 50s. could hit 60 on thursday, all the warmth building in the middle of the country. beautiful day in dallas. and as we go towards wednesday, april-like temperatures tomorrow around the country. it looks like february is going to end feeling just like spring. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? 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[ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. chocolate lemonade ? susie's lemonade... the movie. or... we make it pink ! with these 4g lte tablets, you can do business at lightning-fast speeds. we'll take all the strawberries, dave. you got it, kid. we have a winner. we're definitely gonna need another one. small businesses that want to grow use 4g lte technology from verizon. i wonder how she does it. that's why she's the boss. because the small business with the best technology rules. contact the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 1-800-974-6006. 258, 259, 261, 232, 264, 338, 349, 346, 403. >> he is electric. let's take a look at the morning papers, "the new york times" for the first time in the 39 days since a luxury cruise ship capsized off the coast of italy. fuel something drained from the vessel in an attempt to avoid an environmental disaster. >> "los angeles times," turning now to papers, with gas prices on the rise, experts say the question is no longer if a gallon will hit $5, but when. threatening to cause a major road block in this country's economic recovery. >> gillian, $5 happens when, based on what you're hearing? >> it will be a while. but the issue is that gas prices are definitely rising, it's not just because of iran, although that's an important factor. you go to supplier problems in syria and libya and sudan, and you take that together, and we could see a very nasty shock. and this plays into the political debate. because out of nowhere we've had this focus on social issues for the last few weeks, at what point do we go back to focusing to the economy and the social issues getting sidelined? >> we've heard republicans pinning high gas prices on the president. the "times-picayune," while rain hampered the new orleans festivities, we've heard that fat tuesday will be perfect. that's not rain in the streets, that's when they come with the hoses to clean the streets off, actually. 5:25 in the morning. heilemann would still be out there, right? 5:25? >> what you talking about? just getting going. >> it's not so different unlike a normal night. >> that's actually true. >> just a few more people. >> let's turn to politico, patrick gavin has a look at the playbook for us. good morning. >> good morning. >> your lead story in politico this morning, democrats warn, don't get cocky. who is giving the warning and what are democrats cocky about? >> when you look at the play field right now. there is some reason for democrats to be fairly optimistic. the presence of approval ratings are getting better, the economy is seeing good signs, there's signs that the democrats could keep the smat. unlikely even speaker pelosi is saying she could return to power in the speaker's gavel in 2013. those are reasons to be optimistic. there are a lot of democrats saying don't get too cocky about this. for the obvious reason, it's still 259 days away until election day. number two, of course the economy. the fact of the matter that it's very hard to get over confident when you've got 8.5% unemployment and last but not least, one of the reasons why democrats i think are doing fairly well is there have been some actual democratic victory, you look at the payroll tax, a lot of of republicans think the president outmaneuvered them on that. and some think that the president could make the issue of contraception a win. are the republicans in disarray trying to pick a nominee and once they get to the nominee, is it just going to become a head-to-head match. >> so democrats have some reason to be confident, gillian. but you pointed us to a story on the front page of your newspaper, doubt haunts some u.s. companies. >> this is fascinating scoop we got which shows what's happening in the weeds. normally when you get companies issuing their results, they make some sort of prediction where they think the economy is going. this time around, four out of five companies have been too uncertain or too scared to make any predictions about what's going to happen next. a lot of them are saying we're doing okay, but in terms of where the world as a whole is going, we have no idea. >> why wouldn't they do that? what message does that send to you? >> it's a combination of not knowing what's happening on the political front. not knowing what's happening with the regulatory burden. we could see some policy shifts come in the next couple of years. the big one right now is the eurozone. if we have repeated eurozone problems in the next few months, that could drag confidence down and people are starting to talk about greece being the lehman brothers moment again. portugal, a country people haven't been watching much, is in real trouble and it's a combination of things that could once again damage sentiment. >> and if i could add one thing, one good thing that would easily make the president's approval ratings down is what you just mentioned, $5 gas. if that were to happen this summer, that's a pretty difficult thing for the president to try to address. most voters think the buck stops with him, whether or not in fact it really does. if that happens, any sort of momentum that democrats right now could quickly evaporate. >> patrick, quick before we let you go, you've been following rupert murdoch on twitter. >> yes. >> and he's behind rick santorum, is that right? >> it's not an outright endorsement. but he tweeted, a rare tweet, he said that rick santorum is somebody to keep your eye on. he says that social values do matter in america, and not to be sniffed at. he said if rick santorum wins michigan, according to rupert murdoch, that's game, set match. so from across the pond, that's his pundit prediction for the upcoming primary in michigan. >> two skeptics right here. >> i believe rupert has been out previous on the twitters for santorum. he likes santorum. >> but it's not game over if he wins michigan. >> it's not game over -- >> game change. >> romney is still the most likely nominee. >> but as michael steele said, it will be a big moment if he wins, if rick santorum wins michigan. >> patrick gavin thanks so much for look at the playbook. still ahead, eugene robinson, andrea mitchell and later the reverend franklin graham, the son of reverend billy graham, up next, carmelo anthony returns to the new york knicks lineup. his first game back since linsanity swept the nation. but can melo and lin play together? 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[ male announcer ] the security of a tiguan, one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty ♪ named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. mid grade dark roast forest fresh full tank brain freeze cake donettes rolling hot dogs bag of ice anti-freeze wash and dry diesel self-serve fix a flat jumper cables 5% cashback right now, get 5% cashback at gas stations. it pays to discover. your finances can't manage themselves. but that doesn't mean they won't try. bring all your finances together with the help of the one person who can. a certified financial planner professional. cfp. let's make a plan. time fr a little sports. everybody was wondering what happens to the linsanity when superstar carmelo comes back. we have some new puns for you this morning. new york "daily news," trouble lin paradise. part of the problem, no the just carmelo has been out for a while, but that jeremy lin was playing perhaps i don't know, one or two best point guards in the nba last night. the nets all-star guard darren williams said he takes full responsibility for lin sanity. it was against him that jeremy lin had his breakout game two weeks ago. ever since, darren said he's been tired about reading on twitter that jeremy lin destroyed him and he's had this rematch circled on his calendar. carmelo anthony was back in the lineup. everybody waiting to see how he would fit in. first quarter, lin finds aptny for little mid-range jumper and in the second quarter, carmelo returns the favor and finds lin for an open three. the knicks down eight points at halftime. jay-z and beyonce, new parents watching. darren takes over the three and the foul on jeremy lin. seconds later, williams hits another three, he had 36 points through three quarters. finished with 38 points. the knicks unable to stop darren williams, lose 100-92. lin did finish with a team high 21 points, carmelo anthony had nine in his return. that he was just trying to fit in to this new knicks team. we'll see how they do in their next one against atlanta. odd finish last night. nuggets and timberwolves in overtime, five seconds remaining. the nuggets have the ball and the lead on the inbounds pass, minnesota's martel webster steals the ball, gets a big steal, four seconds left. down three points, pull-up for the three, maybe he can tie the game? let's see if he knocks down the three. remember, got to have the three. they're only a couple of seconds left. and martel webster goes in for the toma hawk slam it seal the loss. that was a two-pointer, martel, we were looking for three to tie the game. they lose by the narrowest of margins. looking for a pull-up three. his teammates stunned, looking at him, rick adelman, just shaking his head as coach. webster said after the game. if i had to do it over again, i would probably pull up for a jump shot. he responds on twitter, best summed up by bill simmons at espn, wow, martel webster just made the dub dumbest play of the season, it was awesome. i don't know why coaches even have time-outs. >> that's what i was going to ask you. don't they go over these things during the time-out? >> they do, but nba players don't always list ton coaches. >> what if he was drawn the foul? >> looking for a little contact? great finish between big east rivals, uconn and villanova. final seconds of overtime. length of the court, lay-up ties it at 70-70. look like we're going to double o.t., but look at this smooth pull-up 30-footer, steps in and drains it. uconn rallies from an 18-point deficit to win 73-70. and mike barnicle, this one is for you from baseball, manny is back. manny ramirez has signed a one-year contract worth about $500,000. he'll have to serve the rest of a 50-game suspension for his second violation of baseball's drug policy. anything left in the tank that he can contribute? >> there might be a little in oakland. that division is certainly not the american league east. his bat speed probably not what it was two or three years ago. he can't play until the first week in june. but he comes cheap, $500 tlourks for oakland, manny ball instead of money ball. >> think he'll keep the $500,000 in an envelope in his glove compartment? >> the way he did in boston. on the list of greatest pure hitters you've seen where's manny? >> he's on it. top five. top five, yeah. in his prime. >> in his prime. >> up next, the must-read opinion pages. ♪ he was a 21st century global nomad ♪ ♪ home was an airport lounge and an ipad ♪ ♪ made sure his credit score did not go bad ♪ ♪ with a free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ app that he had ♪ downloaded it in the himalayas ♪ ♪ while meditating like a true playa ♪ ♪ now when he's surfing down in chile'a ♪ ♪ he can see when his score is in danger ♪ ♪ if you're a mobile type on the go ♪ ♪ i suggest you take a tip from my bro ♪ ♪ and download the app that lets you know ♪ ♪ at free-credit-score-dot-com now let's go. ♪ vo: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. our machines help identify early stages of cancer and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life, matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor, i'm sure i could take something positive away from that. 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>> the first one is michael gerson in today's "washington post." republicans need to offer a credible economic alternative while pointing out that obama has missed his own objectives in reducing the employment and the federal debility by a mile. obama having pledged to cut the deficit in half during his term, has done little or nothing, this is the craven part, about the unsustainable growth of entitlement spending which threatens the security of our government and the future stability of the economy. but as long as republicans are focused elsewhere, they are providing obama with his own private bailout. and michael steele as we've discussed, unless gas is $10 a gallon in august or $5 a gallon in august, aren't they, in effect, the republican field, giving the president a huge, huge lift? >> absolutely. i mean, this piece this morning, just nails it for me. because it is, it is quintessentially the problem that the party has right now. it is rudderless on its message. it is allowing the president three years, three and a half years of untenable increases in debt and spending. to just go unchecked. we're getting into these, these battles within the party and the focus is very clear and the base and others have been saying for sometime now. let's focus on jobs, let's focus on wealth creation. let's have this conversation. i thought gerson hit it out of the park and it's going to take something like $5 gas maybe to get people refocused. the question then is whether it's too late and the country is pretty much on the road or making up its mind. saying well, i like obama, republicans don't have a plan, we'll muddle through $5 gas and that's not where the party wants the country to be. and it's certainly not where they want that conversation to go. >> john, is it fair to say that rick santorum does not talk about economic issues? >> no. >> it's not fair, right? >> in other words, he's asked when he goes on television, he's asked at these events about social issues, it's not like he's offering them at every turn. >> he has such a history of making controversial statements about social issues and obviously we have a moment right now because of the contraceptive debate. we have moment where these things come up. he finds it impossible not to answer them. so he walks into these problems. but if you go see rick santorum on the stump. even at the faith and freedom thing i saw him at last friday, 95% of the speech is not about cultural issues, he had one sentence in the speech about the contraceptive debate to try to turn it into a constitutional issue. but 95% of the speech is about economics and about obama care and domestic policy. he's trying to, you know, trying to get focused on manufacturer revival. on issues around blue collar economics that will appeal to the segment of the population i was talking about before. but he does have, it all plays out against the backdrop of rick santorum culture warrior, so the subjects come up and he, he is not disciplined enough not to address them. and then that becomes the story because those are obviously very sexy and controversial subjects. >> that was the point of my question, is that republicans are accused of being obsessed with social issues. if you go to an event, you'll hear mitt romney and rick santorum talking about the economy relentlessly, but they're often asked by members of the press, about these perceived gaffes. >> you know who is obsessed about social issues? the media. if rick santorum wins michigan, the national narrative is going to be the social issues propelled him. i think he's driving more of a populist economic message that fits michigan right now than romney is, romney has a chance to come back and do it he's not doing very many events every day so he's not hustling the way santorum is. but santorum is undisciplined. if you're doing the balance sheet for a republican, who would be the stronger general election candidate? he is extraordinarily undisciplined. i asked one of his advisers yesterday, would he take any of the stuff he said over the weekend back, absolutely not. this is what he believes, this is rick being rick. that's fine. but imagine if he were talking, every time he's asked a cultural social issue he said you know what, i feel strongly about this stuff, but i'm the grandson of a coal miner. as a grandson of i'm a coal miner, we need to get rid of the president. >> let's go to something that's tangible. one of the most interesting things that rick santorum has been saying is the idea of zero tax on manufacturers. that's obviously going to play very well in michigan but it cuts to a much bigger cord in america right now, which is about the revival of american manufacturing and the revival of the american industry and it's about whether or not you can give people a dream and a positive vision for the future. you've seen the advertisements, talking about ge and chrysler, it's about trying to get a vision for we're going to get america back on the road and manufacturing is a key issue. it's not just a social stuff. >> michael steele from who you're talking to in michigan, who is winning the argument in the state? is it the message from mitt romney? or rick santorum among those vote sners. >> it's santorum all day long. i think, you're hearing michiganders say, this guy relates to me much he's come up the way i've come up. that kind of politics is priceless in race like this where up until now the presumed front-runner has not been able to make that connection with the voters. when you get someone, this is the distinguishing mark in my estimation, between santorum and everyone else who has gone before him, is the anti-romney, is that he is the best and the most legitimate at being anti-romney. he is, he is clearly struck that nerve, that chord, that is not only cutting in with the conservative base, but has the ability to pull those soft reagan democrats back towards looking at him, looking at his economic message. i think john is absolutely right. when you hear him on the stump, it is 95% populist economics. it is the social question that he gets off-camera or right after one of those stem winders that becomes the headline. he now needs to make his speech, what he just said about the economy, the headline. if he does that, going from michigan forward, it's going to be a tough road for romney in his team. they've got to get out of this static box that they're in right now. >> you can argue, economists can argue about whether the special tax treatment for manufacturers is a good idea or not. even the president's advisers say that is a breakthrough idea for the population, not just in the republican contest, but a general election, much more than anything that romney is talking about right now. >> it's the bruce springstein moment. can you appeal to the american public with a vision and he's doing it very well right now. >> gillian we'll get to your op-ed at the top of the hour, why size matters to banks, in the "financial times." coming up, exhale, colbert fans, stephen colbert addresses the rumors about his absence. 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[ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro. is that live? that's prerecorded jonathan capehart, he'll be the host of "way too early" on thursday. >> i like when he does sports. he's really good. we love jonathan capehart. time to talk about stephen colbert. the man is back, the colbert report abruptly suspended production last week setting off a near panic among his fans, wondering where he had gone. most of the of the speculation was that he had gone home to south carolina to be with his ailing 91-year-old mother. here is stephen last night back in the saddle. >> tonight -- hi. how you been? as the hub around which the republic turns, i can understand why the machinery of this great nation ground to a halt last week when you were denied this. there was some wild rumors about why i was gone. one person or whatever part of that original person has not been dermabrased, as cuesed me of being off for plastic surgery. >> he's back. >> he left for like mysterious reasons. at least last week the report came out they're suspending the show indefinitely. we're not saying why. >> he had a nose job. you watch, stephen is going to have new eyes. >> i did not have my eyes done. that is ridiculous. i had my ass done. the doctors cranked this thing so high and tight it can barely blink now. anyway, rumors quelled, moving on. oh, one more thing -- evidently having 11 children makes you tough as nails. confidential to a lovely lady -- >> that lovely lady is his mother. one of 11 children. good to see stephen back. coming up next, eugene robinson and andrea mitchell join the conversation. ♪ ♪ let's go ♪ ♪ cruise like a norwegian ♪ the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles on every purchase, every day. that's setting the bar pretty high. owning my own business has never been more rewarding. coming through! 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boss. because the small business with the best technology rules. contact the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 1-800-974-6006. so i was criticized by saying that the president has a radical environmental ideology and call it a theology. it's one that puts man just like any other species out there. and that the earth is the objective. we worship the earth. or we, we focus on the earth and we don't worry about man and his, and his like. he's just, well, you know, he's just -- he's out there trying to abuse the earth. whereof course we believe that man has dominion over the earth and is a steward of the earth. so what is this? that man is a parasite? that somehow these riches that we find in the ground are liabilities, not assets? and that somehow or another, we shouldn't explore them? that we should drive up costs, we should make it more expensive for people. this is a president who has his priorities all out of whack. >> rick santorum yesterday in michigan, good morning, look at the beautiful sunrise over new york city, it's 7:00 in the morning here on the west coast. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm willie geist. joe and mika have the day off. we have mike barnicle, mark halperin, john heilemann. gillian tett, along with michael steele and joining us from d.c., pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson and the host of "andrea mitchell reports" every day at 1:00, andrea mitchell. it should be pointed to right off the bat -- ♪ a story of a lovely lady ♪ >> fox news has the five, fox, we see your five and raise you eight. eight people on television right now. >> let's start talking at once. >> thanksgiving at the barnicle house. >> this is an awful lot of punditry this morning. good to see all you guys. gene, he want to start with you to set off our conversation. we were just listening to rick santorum. you're conveniently writing about senator santorum this morning. saying santorum could take republicans down with him. gene rights in gop circles there is more than a whiff of panic in the air, unemployment still painfully high. americans remain dissatisfied with the country's direction. even the most favorable polls show president obama's approval at barely 50%. and yet -- there is a sense that the republicans' odds of winning back the white house grow longer day by day. the issue for republicans is not just that santorum would lose in november, it's that he could be a drag on house and senate candidates as well. imagine say senator scott brown of massachusetts, trying to explain to his constituents why someone who doesn't fully understand women's participation in the workforce, should be president. listen closely, and you can hear the anguished cries, mitch, chris, jeb, help! >> gene, you want to expand on that a little bit for us this morning? >> well, in the basic point is that rick santorum, who is suddenly the new front-runner, that status could be confirmed if he wins michigan, is, has extreme views. and views that are way outside the mainstream. he has this obsession with women's reproductive rights, which he goes on and on about. but also about women in the workforce. and the stuff that he wrote in his book in 2005, "it takes a family." which he essentially implied or said, that you know, a lot of women work outside the home, they find it, they find it basically a convenient excuse to get out of the home and have a more gratifying career. rather than staying home and taking care of the kids. and he didn't say this, but it's implied, where they belong. and that's, you know, try that with voters in 2012 in this country. it just doesn't work. he seems not to realize that two-income families are two-income families because both incomes are needed to put food on the table these days. but then again he's made a lot of money since he lost his bid for the senate so maybe he doesn't realize that any more. >> andrea, at, i want to leave the country for a while here, okay? i want to leave the presidential debates for a while, put them in the background. and i want to talk to you about something that perhaps might in the long run be more important than contraception and home schooling. it is this -- yesterday -- >> weapons grabs? >> yesterday in most of the papers, we're reading about the degree of difficulty that would be entailed if israel decided on its own to go it alone and attack iran. and yesterday also we find out that benjamin netdanyahu is coming to washington to see officials in the united states i assume about just this topic. where are we on this? >> we are in a very tense place. and that is one of the reasons why the gasoline prices, oil prices are up. and that spike is going to continue. it's not just iran, as gillian tett was saying earlier. there are a lot of unrest, syria, concerns about the future of egypt. the bottom line is that iran is a very tense place and netanyahu is coming here, the actual reason is apec. he's coming for the annual meetings, they'll be all the gathering of powerful jewish american leaders here for that meeting next sunday, monday tuesday in washington. the day before super tuesday. but the fact is that he's going to be meeting with the president. we know how bumpy the relationship has been in the past. i would bet you almost anything that this will be a very good meeting of the white house. that all of the sort of cosmetic and dramatic pictures that you see around this meeting will be very positive. because the president does not want to have a tense meeting with netanyahu at this moment in time. in the middle of an election year. but the israeli perspective is very different. they see this as an extension threat. the u.s. is telling them, the national security adviser over the weekend, that there is no proof that iran has actually decided to build a nuclear weapon. they have a nuclear program that is currently under the eyes of international u.n. weapons inspectors on the ground there this week again, the second time in a month. and that we should wait to see if negotiations and sanctions work. but that is not the israeli view right now. >> and of course one of the reasons why we're getting these signals from people saying slow down, it's beginning to dawn on the military, that actually knocking out iran's ability to create nuclear weapons is not going to be easy at all. i mean too many people have been thinking you can press a button, you get these drones and guided bombs and stuff. and that will sort it out. that's not the case. people who have been looking at the situation on the ground closely say it could be a very messy situation, actually trying to take military action. >> and andrea, syria plays into all of this. iran moved a couple of warships to dock at a naval station in syria and saying explicitly, the government official in iran saying it sends a clear message to america about possible adventurism that was their quote, inside syria. >> that's a double-edged sword, because both russia and iran have been helping to rearm sirria the assad regime. those are those in israel and the united states who believe that syria's weakness and distraction internally could be the moment to go after iran militarily because syria could not come to iran's help. the bottom line as gillian said, as was wrote in the "new york times" yesterday. it's 1,000 miles for israel to get to tehran. they do not have great refueling capacity. i'm told that they have about seven refueling planes for mid-air refueling on the way. they have to carry 5,000-pound bombs which are not guaranteed to be enough bunker buster to get to the underground facilities. and it is unclear that israel and the united states know where everything is. although they say the intelligence is very, very good. so it's not easy. they might get a wink and a nod and even help on refueling from the saudis, they're not going to be able to fly north through turkey. the easiest route would be directly, the shortest route, over iraq. >> base dli they've bought themselves a lot of time in terms of iran, dealing with things like the suxnet and the cyberwar staff. and that's helped them. as andrea says one of the problems between the u.s. and the israeli relationship is not that tight and it's going to be very different as they start going forward and talking about militia tactics. >> i want to sort through gene's column and go down to michael steele. you heard gene make the case that republicans are very concerned about a rick santorum win. going all the way down the ballot is that what you're hearing as well, michael steele? >> yeah. it's, you know, the tale of two cities here. you've got the establishment types, those who are the political intelligence here which i've always thought a little bit oxymoronic when it comes to some things that republicans do. but the fact of the matter is that they are very much gnashing their teeth, trying to figure out how to nuke santorum. so the reality of it is the second voice out there is everyone else who wants this thing to play out. i've said earlier, i think you know, people may protest a little bit too much about the impact and effect of a santorum movement beyond michigan, into the, you know the throes of actually becoming the eventual nominee. santorum has resonance out there with everyday folks. and while you have those in the press who talk high and mighty about this stuff and beat up the likes of a santorum because of what he is saying is outside the mainstream, well the mainstream is being defined by those very people and they like some of what he's saying. so that dynamic still has to get played out a little bit as well. >> you know, michael, another dynamic at play here that will eventually come into play. if we could get the guys in the control room to rack up the gingrich tape, talking about president obama yesterday. if we get the tape can you hear what he calls him. we'll get to the tape. because they're in there having breakfast and they'll eventually get to the tape. but it has to do with america's role in the world. and gingrich is trying to address it. and the degree of danger that the world posed, not only to the united states, but to other countries. i'm wondering from you two guys who are both out there occasionally on the stump, with actual real people, do you hear -- we got the gingrich thing. listen to the gingrich thing and we'll come back. >> all of you should be very deeply concerned about national security. barack obama is the most dangerous president in modern american history. the president wants to unilaterally weaken the united states, he wants to cut the aid to israel for its antiballistic missile defense. he refuses to take iran seriously. we're in a world that is very dangerous. so defeating barack obama becomes in fact a duty of national security. because the fact is, he is incapable of defending the united states. >> incapable of defending the united states. john heilemann, talk about the degree of difficulty selling that argument out in the country when this president has arguably been tougher on terrorists than george w. bush ever was. >> it's a ridiculous argument unless there is some foreign policy crisis that proves that, that goes against what the president has accomplished in the last three years. if iran blows up, and somehow the president is found wanting, that's a different thing. but at this moment, for most average americans, president obama is the guy who killed osama bin laden. and who from a slightly more elevated perspective, has pursued as aggressive and conservative a foreign policy on anti-terrorism as george w. bush did. and i think for most people who think about foreign policy at the level that average americans, normal people out there think. they hear talk like this and it just doesn't mean anything to them. there's no sign of that. i mean, obviously people at the republican base whoor, for whom they are receptive to the notion of the apology tours. but most americans think he got osama. that's what they think. >> it's a good base issue, john's characterization of the president's record is accurate. there's a couple of exceptions think maybe have broader appeal. israel, relations with israel and what's going on in iran. and the failure to stop the iranian nuclear program. although the president's predecessor didn't do much to stop it either, in the end. this is a base fight, though, and that line of reasoning with the base. there are again, this is not saying they're accurate. but tens of millions of americans find that argument about the president compelling. even though his overall foreign policy and national security ratings are high. so gingrich is saying what viewers of fox news and listeners to rush limbaugh and other parts of the republican base believe, even if it's not particularly supported by too many facts. >> but -- interesting, gene, that you don't hear that much in debates, you don't hear a lot of it on the stump outside of newt gingrich. because the fact of the matter is that president obama did kill osama bin laden. he got us out of iraq at the end of the day. is scaling back in afghanistan. it's a tough case to make for many republicans against president obama. >> it's a very tough case. and i think what you guys were saying is absolutely right. it's a base argument and it appeals to people who are already disposed not to like president obama. and it riles them up. but it's not something that you hear out and around the country. you don't hear criticism of obama on foreign policy. quite the contrary, you hear -- at least i hear -- not just from democrats, but from a lot of republicans as well, gee, you know, it is, it's time to bring back some of the troops and let's end some of these wars. and you hear about the economy. so when the general election, again unless something really bad happens, i don't think it's much of an argument at all. >> let me just jump in for a second. i think where you will hear this is when netanyahu comes to washington, it's the kind of base argument that newt gingrich can make and can be amplified. it gives netanyahu a great deal of leverage when he comes here. that's the argument to the republican base, they'll be there at the conference and there's going to be an echo chamber. and the other piece of it is $5 gas, bumping up again that on the coast and you'll see it go higher if we do become engaged in some sort of action over iran. if israel does and if we get caught up in it. and get taught into their defense, then there is the risk of a regional war. then it becomes an economic issue in the summer campaign. >> andrea, as someone who has covered the middle east so extensively over the years, is it a fair criticism of president obama that he's not been as friendly to israel as perhaps some people would like him to be? >> it's a fair criticism that it's been an uncertain policy. that in the first year he came down hard on the settlements. harder than some of his predecessors. and then reverted back down from that. so there's been no action at all on the israeli, the fundamental israeli-/issues. he came to israel's defense strongly on the palestinian statehood issue. so he got right with it but it's been a zig-zag policy. that's where he gives his critics some ammunition. but he's been certainly on terrorism and every foreign policy issue, on the war, the surge in afghanistan you can't argue that he's been weaker than any of his predecessors, in fact, a lot tougher. >> michael steele, let me ask you, despite the objects appeal as mark and john and andrea have just alluded to. it's the appeal to the base, that arguments appeal to the base. at some point doesn't even the base, doesn't the argument about the costs of war kick in? starting with the human cost? the war weariness that afflict this is nation, rightly so? the fact that people are going to be paying $4, $5 a gallon for gasoline. to drive over roads that need to be repaired. to schools this need to be repaired. doesn't that kick in? >> it does kick in. you hear it going back over a year on afghanistan. i got in trouble for calling out on afghanistan, at the time as national chairman. what i was saying was a reflection of what i was hearing from a lot of conservatives around the country. as i traveled around the country, there was this angst about it. the neocons in the gop, the bill cy kristals of the world have been wrapping themselves around the obama policy. because it was an extension of the bush policy. so to the extent that that war weariness began to set in, yeah, among the rank-and-file conservatives, they were feeling it, too. they were seeing it as well as hearing it. there was not this response back from the establishment types, you know, to acknowledge that. so i think you're absolutely right. when it comes to playing this particular card, there's a limitation to it. because a lot of people have seen what the obama presidency has done on this front. and they like it because it is supportive of exactly where they were going with bush. >> the big conference -- there are people talking about the fact we could be seeing $150 a barrel going forward and that would translate into gas prices of $4 or $5. that is is going to be very nasty and it's going to bring the foreign policy issue straight back home. >> absolutely. gene, put a bow on this segment for us here. we've got a week until michigan and arizona. the polls show it, just essentially neck and neck between santorum and romney and both states, where do you see this going and i'll ask you the question we asked in our last hour -- if rick santorum wakes up as the winner next wednesday morning of both states, what happens to this race? >> well, what happens to this race? we've been wrong consistently, because it keeps zig-zagging back and forth. so actually i do not know. if rick santorum ends up the winner, he, he becomes the front-runner. romney still got all of this money. he's clearly going to do well in some other states. i guess they continue to duke it out. as the party becomes more and more concerned about eventually losing what they saw as a winnable election. >> all right. gene writing this morning, rick santorum could take republicans down with him. can you read it in the "washington post".com. gene, thanks so much, gooed to see you this morning. andrea, stay with us and gillian, thanks so much, great to see you as always. still ahead, the politics of religion, reverend franklin graham weighs in on rick santorum's criticism of the president's theology. and 12 years after leaving office, a new documentary explores the legacy of president bill clinton. that film's director joins us, next. i'm robert shapiro. over a million people have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. at legalzoom we'll help you incorporate your business, file a 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really -- my sole goal was achieved, however. i wanted so badly to make michael dukakis look great and i succeeded beyond my wildest expectation. >> inan instant, he turned it around. >> that was a clip from "the american experience" called "clinton" showing president bill clinton rebounding from his panned performance. the 1988 democratic convention in atlanta. here with us now, the writer and director of that film, barack goodman. we have a couple of people with us in the room. andrea mitchell was there, john heilemann was there. andrea, was it as painful in person as it was on tv? >> it was worse, it was awful. you're there in the crowd and everyone is screaming. and barack goodman in that film which i watched last night has captured the reaction, some of the faces of the people in the crowd, it was amazing. the fact that he was able to go as harry thompson said, immediately go on carson and have that moment and play the sax? and got it back. we were off and running. >> how good is carson, by the way? you just remember watching those clips, how great he was. tell me about the genesis of this project? what was the timing on this, why was it time now for a look back on bill clinton's years? >> i think the executive producer of "the american experience" that enough time had passed and emotions had settled enough, proved to be partially true, i think. we've entered a period of sort of scholarship about clinton, the journalistic period is over and now more serious scholarship is being produced. i did feel the people who talked to us were extraordinarily candid. i felt that they're sort of not as concerned about the sort of blow-back from their words. and we were able to get some really nice candid stuff. >> history as it often is, is kind to presidents. i think in light of george w. bush, a lot of people said, my gosh, bill clinton was great. and even in light of president obama, some democrats have said, who how great was bill clinton. what did you find looking back, was it a rosier picture than the reality? >> you do have to fight against the nostalgia. i felt the thonostalgia going i the project, we're trying to understand people in their times, why they made the decisions they did. how it reveals who they are. so when you go back and you put yourself back in those times, it was obviously a very mixed bag. a very successful presidency in some ways. very unsuccessful presidency in some ways. >> you know it's kind of interesting watching the first part and the second part is on this evening. is there's an element to it that is reflective today of our politics, that began at the beginning of the clinton presidency. newt gingrich is still in the arena. the, this antagonism, this bitterness, this polarization between the two parties was all there. >> it really has its roots. one of the things that makes this film i think feel very timely is that a lot of what you see today in the political landscape really had its roots, in fact the obama administration tracks almost perfectly with the clinton administration, they have the same arc almost. you can learn a lot about what's going on now, what may happen in the near future by looking at what happened to clinton. >> you have bob reisch, the former secretary of labor, a long-time friend of clinton's who went to law school with him at yale. saying that clinton helped the country. but then he said, there are elements of tragedy here also undoubt undoubtedly. what tragedy is bob talking about? >> he's talking about missed opportunities. it's sometimes hard to judge a president for what he didn't do. there was such a sense of possibility with clinton. he had so many political tools. he was brilliant man. he had great political instincts and after he was re-elected, he had a booming economy and a real opportunity to solve some big problems and he sabotaged that with the monica lewinsky affair. so people like riesch who believed in clinton, there was a sense that it was good, but it could have been much better. >> you spend a lot of time in the documentary on the monica lewinsky affair, do we learn anything new about it? >> i think it deepens the portrait. one thing i didn't know was that clinton did confide in one person in the midst of the affair while he was essentially lying to the country, to hillary, to everyone. he called up dick morris, i'm sure a favorite person around these parts, he called up dick morris and he confided in him. he said to him on the phone, according to dick, you know, i didn't do what they said i did, but i may have done something. and true to form, dick morris immediately says, i'm going to conduct a poll to see what you should do now, and comes back to him and advises him to tell the truth. to confess it, because people will forgive the sin, but they won't forgive the cover-up. >> do you believe that dick morris was the only one who knew for a while? >> i do believe that. it makes sense, clinton saw morris that way. he thought morris was the one person who wouldn't judge him in a situation like that. >> and how did that shape or change bill clinton's presidency at that point? once he told the truth? >> well i think he told the truth, a partial truth to dick morris. but i don't think it did change, unfortunately perhaps from an historical point of view. he didn't take morris' advice. he continued to perpetuate a lie. in general, morris is one of the most interesting figures in this drama. i think that he was enormously influential in moving clinton to the middle after the debacle of the '94 mid-term elections. he doesn't sometimes get the credit for the kind of person he is and the kind of person he was seen to be at the time. but he was an important man in that administration. >> another pretty important person, ken starr, who you also talked to. what's your sense of how he views his role in history and his relationship with the president. >> i found ken starr fascinating. i don't think he has changed much. i think ken starr believed then, i think he believes now that he was on almost a godly crusade to bring justice in this situation. i don't think he was acting out of partisan motives. but i think he was someone who had a prosecutorial zeal that overtook him. i don't think that's diminished at all. he sees the world in black and white. he thinks clinton was guilty, therefore his job was to bring clinton to justice, no matter the consequences. >> michael steele is with us in washington and has a question. >> mr. goodman, what is it about the clintons and the democratic party, and by extension -- >> michael, hang on one second, we have to fix your mike, one second. >> i was struck by a couple of things, the nostalgia of seeing the '92 campaign and the way that as dee dee myers put it in your film, that bill clinton viewed every opportunity as an opportunity to reclaim himself, to you know, come back, the comeback kid as he defined himself even after coming in second in new hampshire. but also, the anger and the sort of vicious nature of the opposition. you had an interview, a bit of an interview with lucy ann goldberg, who played such a big part in the unraveling of the monica lewinsky scandal and she talked about how so viscerally about how the wife was so horrible and the wife had no sense of humor. anyone who has known hillary clinton then and now knows that despite everything that they went through, that's not who hillary clinton is. and it was just this, i hate to revert to the great right-wing conspiracy, but there was really, a group out there who were not going to let him succeed and he of course played in to that with his own mistakes. but there really was an enemy group out there who just wanted to take him down. >> i don't think there's any doubt about that. it's hard to understand where that came from. there was this feeling, the illegitimacy, republicans felt that, some republicans felt that clinton didn't deserve to be president. it had to do with his sort of embodiment of the '60s morality, the '60s, everything that they thought was wrong with the 1960s. which wasn't really fair. clinton was never a, you know, draft card-burning, although there was a draft scandal, as mark well knows. but he wasn't a hippie, dippy kind of '60s figure. but that's the way they saw him. and there was something about the way he would talk his way out of jams, that they just could never trap him and corner him and he would always sort of escape them and it drove them crazy. they really detested the man and his wife. both of them. that never really subsided. i think it accounts for why they impeached him finally when it was clear that he wasn't going to be convicted and the american people were in support of him. >> michael steele? >> yeah, on to dovetail off of that point, you know, what is it about clinton and by extension, hillary, with respect to the democratic party? when you look at the 2008 election, what turned out to be a wholesale rejection of the man that everyone now kind of idolizes and daydreams about and his administration. what is it about the tension that exists between the democratic party and bill clinton? because i know you know it's great to talk about the right wing conspiracy and how conservatives wanted to go after him. but if my history tells me that there were a few democrats who wanted to go after clinton as well. >> i think clinton was a disappointment to liberals, some liberals. because again, you know, clinton has a way of really upsetting his enemies and really inspiring his friends. and people vest in him, you know, great hope and great expectations. and when he disappoints, they feel crushed. and i think the left wing of the democratic party felt that he, when he moved to the center after the '94 mid-terms and did things like welfare reform, that he was really abandoning them. abandoning his principles. i don't think it's much more complicated than that. clinton was always divided internally about where he was politically. he was a practical man. he had sort of centrist instincts, he was never the liberal, that liberals wanted him to be. and i think that they also felt disappointed in him. >> plus, it's tough when someone's skill set is even higher than someone's ambition for the opponents. >> exactly. >> part two of "american experience presents: clinton" airs tonight at 8:00 on pbs. it's a fascinating look at bill clinton, thanks so much for being here. barack goodman, appreciate it. coming up, the 2012 money race. new reports from the f.e.c. show how much candidates have in the bank and how super pacs are stepping up the spending this go-round. is it fast? it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street legal. ♪ is it safe? oh ya, it's a volkswagen. 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[ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro. welcome back to "morning joe," 7:37 in the morning here on the -- >> what are you doing? >> east coast. when it comes to the money race, newly released numbers show mitt romney still on top. but outside fundraising and super pacs adding a new dynamic to the race. according to records, romney raised $6.5 million last month. he's got over $7 million in the bank account. santorum raised $4.5 million in january, double what he raised in all of last year. that's where the super pacs come in, the pro romney super pac restore our future took in $6.6 million. but all were outpaced by the pre-gingrich $11 million. $10 million of that came from gingrich donor, shedle a lle ad. in the interview, the billionaire said he might add to his donation total. he said quote i might give $10 million or $100 million to gingrich. adelson has a net worth of nearly $25 billion. mark halperin, what do you read into those numbers. >> a billion with a "q." what-day read into those numbers? >> the superpacs are changing politics. the president's super pac raised $56,000. so when republicans are dispairing about the general election and they have a lot of reasons to despair right now, whoever the republican nominee is is going to have, i think, hundreds of millions of dollars in super pac money and the president is going to need that. because again, those are unlimited contributions, including corporate contributions and that can be a game-changer. >> is there any way to factor or figure out the amount of time per day that a candidate or someone acting on the candidate's behalf gets on phone to raise money? it's got to be an enormous amount of time. >> there are people who have done this that there is a certain percentage of the day. 25 calls a day. when you think about what's happening to the republican race, the change to proportional primaries and the role of super pacs, in years past, people like rick santorum would have been gone from the race by now, they run out of money. now with big dollars coming in, you can hang around and there's no incentive for these guys to leave, as long as someone is writing checks for them, they can hang around. and that's part of the reason we look at thistracted contest. >> you talk about shelley adelson. or your friend, foster freeze. >> and they're doubling down now. rick santorum not out of money. and the fact is, that it's a combination of the way the rules were changed, this is going to lengthen the primary process. i'm going to be talking today to fred malik who is one of the big romney supporters, this is the disconnect between official washington, the congressional republican party, so concerned that romney may not be able to pull this out. and the rest of the country. which is still looking at santorum and some of the other candidates, certainly ron paul is still there. this thing is not over. >> mark, did we have any idea of how much of mitt romney's personal wealth has been inve invested in this campaign? >> as far as we know, not a dollar. and the super pac keeps that from him having to do that. rather than having to write a personal check, his people can call and again he can raise money for the super pac and he's done some of that. you can get that cash there. you don't have to be a self-funder, you just have to know some rich people and he knows a lot of them. >> andrea mitchell, we'll see you at 1:00 on the "andrea mitchell reports" program. up next, it's news when jeremy lin steps on to a basketball court. but breaking news when he loses. the founder of the blog, deadspin.com joins us after the break. ♪ i am you ♪ you are me i'm jennifer hudson, and i believe. i was strong before weight watchers, but i'm stronger with it. i believe weight watchers can do the same for you. i believe you have more power than you think you do. i believe because it works. ♪ if you want it, you got it your turn. your time. your year. join for free. weight watchers points plus 2012. because it works. weight watchers points plus 2012. ah, welcome to hotels.com. i get it...guys weekend. yeah! if you're looking for a place to get together, you came to the right place. because here at hotels.com, we're only about hotels. yeah! yeah! noooo. yeah! finding you the perfect place is all we do. welcome to hotels.com welcome back to "morning joe," 7:45 in the morning. a beautiful live picture of central park, the upper west side, the hudson rimpbor river, the george washington bridge. joining us from chicago, the contributor editor of "new york" magazine and the founder of the blog deadspin.com, good to see you. what are you doing in chicago when the linsanity is right here in your own back yard. what are you doing? >> i was overflowing on linsanity. i needed a break, a spa treatment to handle it. it looks like i -- had to relax from it. it looks likes i missed the one rough game last night. >> yeah, well you know, he came up, you're an illini guy, darren williams had his number last night. talk about the last couple of weeks, what this has been like as a guy who has covered sports for a long time. have you seen anything like this? >> it's really -- it's, we've seen phenomenons before. i think you even saw when carmelo initially came to the knicks, it was like kind of a minor phenomenon. but it wasn't a surprise. think that's been the thing about this. to go from like literally, he made his big debut, his breakthrough game against the nets, i believe 17 days ago, he had a good game. even the game after that, the knicks were considering cutting him. they liked another point guard more. they gave him one more chance and he was great again. that's the crazy thing about this that's something i haven't seen before. the idea that like from absolute obscurity. people keep comparing him to tim tebow. but tim tebow was a first-round draft pick who won the heisman trophy. he was playing for the erie bayhawks less than a month ago. i haven't seen anything like that. >> the question a lot of people have been asking over the last couple of weeks is how did so many people miss this? he was on rosters for the warriors and rockets as recently as a couple of months ago. no coach saw what could, what's happening right now? >> i think some people saw it, but i think that they were skeptical, because the way that he plays, frankly it wouldn't work in a lot of systems, he's a heavy turnover player. coaches in the nba are seriously turnover-averse. it took mike d'antoni that long to see that he had some pieces of the steve nash here little bit. he's not steve nash, he's not as experienced as steve nash. but the raw material is still there. you saw, and frankly, i think there was an institutional bias a little bit. i don't think it was race-related as frankly, harvard-related. the idea that -- it's funny when you see him play now, like he's not small. he's 6'3", 200 pounds, the key to his game is the ability to bang underneath and be knocked around. it's something that you think people would have seen that but i think people were just wary. he had never really showed up on a large stage before and mostly you could have never told he had that grittiness, kind of a fearlessness in his game that you probably can't really tell in practice. >> i think the ivy league angle is absolutely correct. you know it wasn't so much, you know, missing his talent. although coaches and scouts do miss a lot. tom brady was a seventh-round draft choice. but the phenomenon itself is really interesting, because it's easy to delude ourselves into thinking that it's just new york and because new york is the media capital of this country that it's just because of that. but it's not, it's bigger than that. i heard people talking about you know, linsanity in boston this weekend. and coffee shops in boston. the only thing i can liken it to in my lifetime, you might remember, probably before you were born, fernando vallen swalea, who came out of nowhere valenzuela. >> you knew it was a national story when the kardashians were pushing their way into it. actually, on all seriousness. it took me aback. i'm covering, i'm in new york, covering the team on a regular basis. i hadn't quite realized just how national it had become until you saw like her press person being like, well we're not saying that she's hung out with jeremy, but you know, we're hot not refuting those, either. wow, the story is becoming huge. >> their online betting websites where can you get 5-1 odds that he'll date a kardashian by the end of the year. >> you made a claim in a piece on our website, a piece on our website that i found amazing and hopeful and maybe a little shocking is you think think team is playing like a title contender, talk about that. >> it's not so much they're playing like a title contender, but the pieces are certainly there. the frustrating thing is not that they don't have talent. they have tons of talent. they clearly missed the ingredient. they built the team like his old phoenix suns team and then brought in carmelo anthony, who is not that kind of player. and they lost a point guard. you saw this against dallas. you have the defensive guys. and you have the superstars with carmelo anthony and you finally have a point guard that puts it together. last time was a rough game. he took care of that last night. but in a lot of ways you saw that. when lin is not in the game it's back to the team he was before they got there. clearly talented team. they have to get the pieces working together. but certainly the pieces are there. if they can check it out then lin will be the key. the pieces are there. the question is whether they're able to figure it all out. >> it's funny. the garden crowd is less and less. when lin is on the floor and the other teams are out, why isn't jeremy lin on the floor. you're an illini guy. i was raised a fan. is bruce weber done? >> i think it's probably time to make a change. >> i love the guy, too. it's hard to say. and the cardinals without pujohls? >> i am told he showed up at training camp. i don't believe that it happened. but carlos belle tran is making his former teammate get nose jobs. apparently that's a guy i want on my team. >> it's funny how quickly cardinal fans have dise vowed their great hero, albert pujols. >> albert who? >> there you go. ♪ [ male announcer ] from our nation's networks... ♪ ...to our city streets... ♪ ...to skies around the world... ♪ ...northrop grumman's security solutions are invisibly at work, protecting people's lives... 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[ male announcer ] the security of a jetta, one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪ fortunately michigan is going to be different. mitt was born there. he knows how to appeal to voters. >> i was born and raised here. it seems right here. the trees are the right height. i like seeing the lakes. i love the lakes. the great lakes. but also the inland lakes that dot the parts of michigan. i love cars. >> those are true human feelings. expressed by a man who is definitely not just listing things he can see out the window. >> good tuesday morning. it's mardi gras. and it's 8:00 here on the the east coast as we take a live look at manhattan. and down in washington, michael steele. >> john was present when mitt romney declared that he loved lakes and cars. >> you were there? what was it like? >> it was awesome. it happened last thursday. so it's amazing to me it has taken this long for the world to catch up with the glories. it's an amazing thing. you know, it goes on. he keeps going on and on about it. it's like stream of consciousness. he talks about you look at one square foot of the car and you can tell what it was. it was pretty great. pretty stark contrast between he and rick santorum, who i saw the next day. rick santorum does not do that kind of rap. >> how does it play in the room? do people in michigan feel like that's one of our guys? that's a favorite son? >> yeah, for people who are the romney crowd, he does have -- there's a lot of people in michigan who remember george romney and the whole romney family really favorably. in that crowd, he was giving the speech at a chamber of commerce event not far from where he grew up, in a relatively affluent suburb of detroit. they were his people in that room, and the people thought it was a little antic, but also really appreciated it. really appreciate him. that's the backbone of how he's going to win that primary. he's playing very hard there. and it may very well work for him, despite the polls. >> did you hear anybody in the room wondering what the right size of trees meant? >> there was some commentary. >> you know what it meant. it was familiar. he was home. he said it awkwardly. for viewer who is have not seen the sound bite, play it. >> i love this state. it seems right here. trees are the right height. i like seeing the lakes. i love the lakes. all the little inland lakes that dots parts of michigan. i love cars. i grew up totally in love with cars. used to the be in the '50s and '60s if you showed me one square foot of any car, i could tell you the brand. now tw the japanese cars i'm not so good. but i still know the american cars very well. drive a mustang. i love cars. love american cars. long they they rule the world. i want to do well. >> we chuckle at that sound bite. butt it shows the contrast between mitt romney and rick santorum. >> it's like you're reading off a checklist. i've teached trees. i've got cars. inlets and waterways. i'm sure the people in the room who are romney folks really feel it. for the rest of us who are part of the ground game of republicans that you're going to need in the fall, they don't. it seems forced. it seems contrived. it's unfortunate to say. i've seen romney in the room where he waxes the personal, and it's very moving and it's very touching. that to me comes off forced. you ha you have santorum who related to his grandfather. his hands are numb from digging in the mines. people can relate to that. >> what does the romney campaign do over the next week? we've heard about vaporizing rick santorum the way they do in florida. is that the strategy? >> it is. they're on the air. you say let's put it behind us. the fact is part of running for president is controlling the media narrative. this thing of romney's from thursday lives on. not just on this program. you hear people talking about it all over the place. big events this week. the debate in arizona. romney's speech on friday. whether he wins or loses, he's going forward. he's got to start driving an image of himself as someone with a serious focus on policy and ideas. the chance to beat the president, all these things, and not create the iconic moments that will live on for a long time and undermine the image he wants to project. >> yesterday we talked about this a bit. but the idea that we're talking about theology and i love trees. again a new york collapse and another bailout in greece. when are they going to this get their act together? are they ever going to get their act together? >> rick santorum himself was trying to shame it away from the energy point to the economy and gas prices. but the economy is still there. it's a real problem. in the euro zone they had another bailout. $170 billion. we've got a great sweep say iin that it's a confidentful document saying this is not going to work. and the more they crush them down, the more the population is squealing and making it worse. and it's all back to america. there's no question that the stock markets would be a lot higher were it not for the fact you had the euro zone problem. >> so it's not fixing the larger problem that greece and the larger europe had? >> it's like a case of one step forward, one and a half step backwards. that's been the story of the last year. and it's really zapping our confidence. and what we really need right now in the u.s. and the euro zone is a boost in kansas. for people to believe the economy is going places. >> in addition to confidence you hear business people moan about the lack of certainty. we don't know what's going to happen because of the uncertainty. isn't this the ultimate uncertainty? >> absolutely. u.s. companies are not giving guidance because they're so concerned about the future. you look at what u.s. companies are saying about the position they're in now. most are saying it's kind of okay. we're picking up a few staff. we're maybe hiring people. there's a huge uncertainty now. and of course, that's feeding into the political debate as well. >> well, mitt romney has been talking a lot about the economy. rick santorum, as mark said over the last 96 hours has been mired in social issues, talking about the president's theology. yesterday in michigan, here's rick santorum. >> i was criticized by saying the president had a radical ideology. it's one that puts man just like any other species out there, and that the earth is the objective. we worship the earth. or we focus on the the earth, and we don't worry about man and his life. that he's just, well, you know, he's out there trying to abuse the earth. where, of course, we believe that man has dominion over the earth. so what is this that somehow man is a parasite? that somehow or another, these riches that we find in the ground are liables, not assets? and that somehow or another we shouldn't explore them? that we should drive up costs? that we should make it more expensive for people? this is a president who has his priorities out of whack. >> last night santorum was on fox news. brought the reverend jeremiah wright back to the mix. >> he went to reverend wright's church for 20 years. you can question what kind of theology reverend wright has. it's a christian church. he says he's a christian. look, i'm not going to question what the president believes in when it comes to his feaith. i am going to question what he's doing with the country to destroy the country at the the behalf of radical environmentalists who do want to drive up the cost of energy and slow down this economy. >> i have a question for you based upon the two clips that we just watched. when you're out in the country pulling together all sorts of things for your daily report as well as game change two, do you get the sense that the they are ready to elect someone who comes off as angry as rick santorum? >> angry is fot a good posture for any candidate. optimistic and forward and sunny is always a better disposition. but you think about -- it's really interesting, the republican party twoen mitt romney and rick santorum, they are playing two different coalitions. the people he decided to foe cushion on and that he has the most traction with are evangelical voters, tea party people, and frustrated, angry -- in his view, white working class voters. that's his coalition. and santorum, as a way of trying to win a republican primary, and in a lot of states coming up, it might not be the worst strategy for santorum. he's not going to pick up the upscale voters. you think about places like oklahoma, tennessee, georgia, ohio to a certain extent and in michigan. there's a large block of voters for whom there is frustration. he's trying to tap into that. it's a path he sees to win the primary. >> you up? >> yes, sir. i'm thinking about numbers. >> what happened to newt gingrich? >> he's part of the numbers. we don't have great polling in the states in arizona and michigan. we've seen gingrich and ron paul split 80% of the vote. near has been at 40 in either poll. so romney is trying to become the momentum candidate the way he did in florida partly by spending money. that's why this debate is so important. whoever goes into next tuesday as the momentum candidate will probably win. romney has done nothing since santorum won the three contests. gingrich is not taking up enough space, to go to your question, to stop santorum right now. romney has to find a way to become the momentum candidate. >> that's why the economic speech he's doing is so important. he's not had a forward looking, proactive message since he put out his 59 point plan. throughout the caucuses, you have not heard mitt romney make a forward looking conservative economic pitch. if he can do that at ford field late next week, he could seize the momentum. >> this friday. if he does not, if that speech falls flat and is seen widely as falling flat, he's going to have a real problem. >> on the key issue, basically whether they can go to a product. can they believe something for people to believe in and feel good about? it's interesting we have the debate switch to gas prices in recent days. i think we're going to care a lot more about that. there's real tension in the middle east. there are people forecasting it can go up to 135, 150 this year. when the republican candidates can pull out a program to show how to tackle that, it will be critical. >> michael steele in washington, what if we cake up a week from tomorrow on wednesday morning and rick santorum has won michigan and arizona, what does this race look like? >> well, the fellows on the set wrote the book game change. you're looking at a complete reset of what happens next. the whole thing changes. if you see a michigan win by santorum, and he comes close in arizona and right now he's three down in arizona. lord knows if he winds up winning arizona, you're talking a total reset of the process. the establishment in this town will pull whatever little hair they have left out of their head. you'll hear the clambering for sot knight in shining armor. the base of this party are telling the establishments we have got this. when we come back, as social issues take the stage, franklin graham is here to discuss religion and politics. something we've heard a lot about over the past couple of weeks. also alex wagner will join us here onset. plugs, could the future look better than we think? first, let's get a check on the forecast from bill karins. >> an optimistic forecast. we have a little bit of snow, but nothing to cause too many issues. if you're up in central michigan, we could also have snow there. a beautiful finish. temperatures in the 40s and 50s. you're okay there. the rivers we have to watch could have major flooding problems. heavy rains in the mountains. this is like a spring like weather pattern out there in the pacific northwest. what a beautiful day from dallas all the way to atlanta. what's more impressive is what happens tomorrow. dc could be 60 degrees. we could get to the 50s as far north as boston. also just the northern plains have a pout some cold and winter. the end of february is looking like the beginning of april. 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[ female announcer ] nature valley granola bars, rich dark chocolate, toasted oats. perfect combinations of nature's delicious ingredients, from nature valley. ♪ nature valley granola bars, nature at its most delicious. i accept the fact that the president is a christian. he says he's a christian. but i am talking about the world view and the way aapproaches problems in the country. they're different than most people in america. >> welcome back to "morning joe." reverend franklin graham. also the host of "now with alex wagner" every day at noon, alex wagner. reverend, i'll ask you the question that senator santorum was asked on sunday. do you believe that president obama is a christian? >> you have to ask that of president obama. i think people have to ask barack obama. he's come out saying he's a christian. so i think the question is, what is a christian in. >> so you don't take him at his word when you say he's a christian? >> of course, i do. you have to ask every person. i just have to assume that he is. a christian is a person who believes that jesus christ is our son and that if we put our faith and trust in him that god will forgive us of our sins. that's the definition of a christian. i was 22 years old when i asked christ to come into my heart. you cannot be born a christian. you can only be converted. >> you said he's christian in as much as he goes into church on sunday. you don't know if he accepted jesus christ. do you still believe that? >> i don't know. i asked him when he was running how he came to faith in christ. he said he was working on the south side of chicago in the community. they asked him what church i went to. they said if you don't work in the community you have to join one of the churches. then, of course, he joined reverend jeremiah's church. so that's what his answer to my question was. >> by your definition, he's not a christian. >> you have to ask him. i cannot ask that question for anybody. all i know is i'm a sinner. and god has forgiven me of my sins. >> i just don't get it, reverend. we have other things to talk about. why can't you just say, yeah, i believe he's a christian. i said he's a christian? he goes to church. he practices his faith. if he says he's a christian. i can accept that. all i know what jesus christ has done in my heart and how he changed my life. you said in the past president obama's father was muslim. so he has the seed of islam in his blood. >> no, under islamic law, islam sees him as a son offist lam. because his father was a muslim. grandfather was a muslim. that's just the way it works. that's the way they see it. he says he didn't grow up that way and he believes in jesus christ. so the muslim world,ist laum sees him as a son of islam. >> but you don't believe he's a muslim? >> no. >> categorically not a muslim. >> i can't say categorically. islam has a pass at obama. >> how so? >> coming out of the spring, the islamists are taking control of the middle east. and people like mubarak who was a dictator, but he kept the piece with israel and the christian minorities and egypt were protected. and in a cover story last week, all the way from the middle east africa. muslims are killing christians. and we need to be forcing and the president can come out and make a statement demanding that if these countries do not protect their minorities, no more foreign aid from the united states. they're not protecting the minorities. muslim. the society and these islamic countries is not protecting the christians anymore. >> i'm sorry, alex. so egypt and the world in your view, a better place with hosni mubarak in power? >> having a government that protects the minorities. absolutely. they killed 24 christians because the churches were burned. they were rite ioting. the government came and slaugerrslauger slaughtered 24 christians. i'm not making this up. front page cover story last week in "newsweek." >> so what do you say to the millions across the middle east and north africa who say mubarak was bad for us and we wanted change? what do you say to those people? >> there's a lot of bad people in the world today. most every one of them has leadership that is what i call great people. but you have to deal with those that are in power. egypt is like 13 million. nigeria is 80 some million, but they're still a minority. they have churches being burned. they're being raped. women are being raped. they're being murdered. under sharia law, he can take a christian's life, he can take his daughter. and this is what is happening. the governments are not able to protect the minorities in the society. and they're unwilling to protect them. if a government is not going to protect the minorities, we should not give them one dollar of usa moneys. >> we have more questions, but i want to get alex in here. >> do you align yourself that president obama has been an appeaser? >> i don't like that word so much. but barack obama is an incredible man. he's got a lot of ability. and he's got the power of the white house he could be speaking to the countries now commanding they protect the christians in those countries. we have an aid station in southern sudan. the sudanese dropped bombs on it. we have a bible school. just two weeks ago the sudanese air force dropped eight bombs on that. why doesn't the president come out and try to bring peace? >> but they are active on the issue back when he was a senator. he was with the bipartisan press conference trying to draw global attention. susan rice has been incredibly tough on the issue. he's been pretty engaged on that party of the world given the fact that we don't have quote/unquote interests. >> i'm not sure he's been engaged with sudan. he could be much more engaged. this is the longest running war in africa. i believe he could bring this thing to an end. i know the president would like to have peace. i know that bashir in the north, he would like to find a way out. if he had a camp david summit and brought the governor of the blue nile, i believe within a couple of weeks they could resolve this with the president because each one of these men would like to find a way out. but they've been fighting for so long, they don't know how to talk to one another. i wish he would. i hope he would. >> michael steele is with us in washington with a question. >> reverend, good to see you. a quick question on the matter of faith in this current political cycle we're in. i was talking with some young people recently, and their response was interesting. they said i go to church on sunday. o my preacher, my rabbi on sunday will lay out the message. i don't need a politician telling me how to live my life and drawing those lines for me. as a man of faith and the cloth, do you see that encroachment of politicians into what is arguably your territory of laying out the indictment for manners of faith and morals and leave the faith issues to us. how do you see this comingling? this seems to continue to rear its head in american politics. >> no question that the government is overstepping. you take the contraception issue with the catholic church. this is a big issue. >> and the government and the obama administration has overreached here. i'm afraid the government is going to come and tell me who i should hire. their moral standards are not the same as my standards. we're going to be forced, i'm afraid, under this administration sooner or later to higher people we don't want to hire. government needs to stay out of the thing. >> do you think what looks to be a long and drawnout battle. this could last until june. do you think rick santorum is going to be a stronger candidate or mitt romney is going to be stronger? >> they're all getting stronger. mitt romney is stronger. rick santorum is no question stronger. i think you'll have a much stronger candidate, whoever that person is. >> is there one candidate who shares your beliefs more than another? >> i would say on moral issues no, question, rick santorum. he's a very sharp guy. you have to have a person to make the decision best for us. before we let you go, how is your father? >> i do want to ask you a question. do you believe that rick santorum is christian? >> i think so. >> why is it different for rick santorum? >> well, because his values are so clear on moral issues. no question about it. i just appreciate it the moral stance he takes on things. he comes from a catholic faith. i'm protestant. there are a lot of differences between what he believes and what i believe. i think he's a man of faith. >> that's an amazing double standard. your reaction to the difference. the question about rick santorum and president obama, i think, just exposes an incredible double standard you're applying to the two people. they're exactly the same situation. >> no, i asked president obama how he came to faith in christ. he said, i don't go to church. >> have you had that conversation with rick santorum? >> i talked to rick santorum, yes. >> and he was just more persuasive to you on the depth and sincerity of this question? >> i think so. you have to look what a person does with his life. you look at the way they live. where do they go and act? he's a nice man. his wife is a class act. his kids are class act. you can't help but like them. i have no idea what he really believes. i have no idea what rick santorum stands for of what he really believes. i just feel in my heart. you're asking my opinion. i'm just giving you my opinion. >> reverend, what about mitt romney? >> i like him. >> is he a christian? >> he's a mormon. but he said he's part of the christian faith. >> most christians would not recognize mormons as part of the christian faith. >> so he's not a christian? >> most christians would not recognize that. they believe in jesus christ. they believe in a lot of other things, too. that we don't accept. he's a sharp guy. and he's proven himself. newt mab married many times. we think he's a candidate. >> newt gingrich is a christian. but you're not sure that president obama. you said based on the way they've lived their lives. >> all i know is under obama, president obama, the muslims of the world. he seems more concerned about them than the christians being murder murdered. >> you must spend a big part of the day checking out people depth of faith. >> this is my business. you guys go through newspapers every day. you're checking off articles that are written. i look at a person's spiritual interest. >> but you judge. >> i'm not judging them. you're asking me questions. you have to go by what a person says. are they faithful church goers? do they just go when the cameras are on them? >> god has forgiven us. i don't deserve it. but by his grace he's forgiven me and he saves me. >> we hope you respect people of all faiths. >> we do. >> our best to your father. >> thank you. >> more "morning joe" in a moment. mid grade dark roast forest fresh full tank brain freeze cake donettes rolling hot dogs bag of ice anti-freeze wash and dry diesel self-serve fix a flat jumper cables 5% cashback right now, get 5% cashback at gas stations. it pays to discover. it's this... the etrade pro platform. fast. beautiful. totally customizable. finds top performing stocks -- in three clicks. quickly scans the market for new trading ideas. it can even match options strategies to your goals and lets you see the potential risk and reward. and, it also comes with a dedicated elite service team. got it? get it. good. introducing new etrade pro elite. ♪ interesting theme here. the chairman and ceo of the x prize foundation. he's the coauthor of "abundance: the future is better than you think." thanks for being here. lay out the thesis of the book. we're up to the heres in the america is in the final days of rome book. >> it's so much the opposite by almost every measure that we look at. we've had an extraordinary century in the past. in the last hundred years the human life span has more than doubled the entire global per capita income has more than tripled. the cost of communications by a thousand and if they're on google, they have access to more knowledge than president clinton did 15 years ago. wer now more empowered thean governments and large corporations were a decade ago. we have a set of forces in play giving us a world of abundance. >> so how does technology work to our advantage in terms of economic matters and creating a bigger tent where more people have more. someone below the poverty line in the u.s. still has access to running water, electricity, a phone, a car, most of them even air-conditioning. go back 100 years ago, and the wealthiest people on the planet could barely afford those luxuries. wer moving the pottery line over time. and we're moving towards a point in which the book, my coauthor steven cutler and i talking about moving to a world of abundance where every man, woman and child has basic needs met. it's not a life of luxury, but a life of possibility. >> let me ask you globally how this would work out. let's take afghanistan. >> sure. >> the median age of the country is 17 years, six months. everyone that you encounter in afghanistan seems to have a cell phone. how does the advent of increased technology and access help incredibly poor people? >> perfect example. so about three or four weeks ago i was on stage with paul jacobs at the opening. and he and i announced something called the $10 million tri-quarter x prize. we put up large audacious goals. this one was for the first team to build a mobile device that you could speak to, talk on, do a blood analysis. it can diagnosis you better than a board certified doctor. so that's the vision of the future that we're going to be working towards. today is a 21-day wait. that's good compared to the rest of the world. so these devices will become the local village doc. the same technology to become the tutor. in a world healthier and better educated is a safer world and a less populous world. >> and you mentioned the poverty statistics, which i think are interesting, one or two americans is at or near the poverty line. i would contend one of the things interesting is poverty no longer means not having a black berry or not having a cell phone. those are basic necessities. but if you look at mobility in american society and the discrepancy between the rich and the poor and the stratification in society, studies show us by and large technology and sort of cutting technology tends to affect and benefit those at the very top. how do you domestically suggest that this sufficient may increase the fairness potion throughout america? it allows people in the world to earn an income. it's a means by which they increase their income. in the united states, what's going on right now you have situations like the southcon academy. where an individual can self educate themselves. in a bad school, no family support. there's the technology for a kid to go online and learn something. it's about giving people the opportunity that they've never had before and now we have to motivate them. we really need to create that sense that science and technology is a driver so at abundancet abundancethebook.com people can find out more. stop complaining about problems. let's go and solve them. >> that's a great message in the book. this is the beginning of something. not the end of something. >> absolutely. this is the empowerment. in 2010 we have 2 billion people on the internet connected in the world. it's never been heard from before. what are they going to invent? what are they going to solve? the future is better than you think. you can read an excerpt on our blog. thanks very much. >> it's an exciting world ahead. thanks. >> greece gets another bailout. $172 billion. how will this impact our economy? 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[ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. >> good morning. finally it appears we can stop talking about grease for a few days. overnight, over in europe, a deal was struck to restructure and bail out greece yet again. restructuring the debt. amounting to $170 billion. credit holders, private credit holders will take what's known as a haircut. the bonds that used to be worth 100 cents on the dollar will now be worth something like 47 cents on the dollar. it's tempting the say, willie, that will mean good things for the u.s. economy, because the ultimate meltdown will be averted and maybe europe will get back on the feet quicker. but that would be taking one leap too far. because there are still underlying economic problems. not just in greece. but in portugal, spain and really throughout the continent. >> critics already saying $172 billion band-aid on a gaping wound. >> certainly in the u.s. market. there's not a big rally cry going out here today. and in europe stocks are trading marginally lower at this hour. >> thank you so much. losing weight clicked for me when i found a plan that was as active and on the go as i was. weight watchers online is absolutely that tool. it was never further away than my pocket. my sidekick! the weight tracker really let me see that my real problem area was when i was traveling. it allowed me to kind of tailor my plan to my lifestyle. i lost 29 pounds with weight watchers online. i am like me times five. i'm like cara intensified. 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