Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20111006

>> you ever wonder what this pocket's for? i've always wondered that. well, now we know because this is the new ipod. today apple is going to reinvent the phone. a truly magical and revolutionary product today. again, using this thing is remarkable. it's so much more intimate. thanks for coming today. >> remembering that i'll be dead soon is the most important tool i've ever encountered to help me make big choices in life. because almost everything, all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure, these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important, remembering that you are going to die is the best way i know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. you are already naked, there is no reason not to follow your heart. >> good morning, it's thursday, october 6th. we're live here from pensacola, florida, this morning. and with us onset back in new york along with willie geist, mike barnicle, pat buchanan, and the managing editor of "fortune" magazine, a magazine which named steve jobs the ceo of the last quarter century. and andy, i want to start with you because you spoke with steve jobs an awful lot on the phone. >> yep. >> you had more access, i think, than most journalists. this man was remarkable. he had it all. he was, of course, a genius, along the lines of edison. he was as good of a designer as you could be. he was also a showman. we saw what he did when he pulled that ipod out of his tiny pocket. tell us what you knew about steve jobs that the rest of america this morning waking up to this news may not have known. >> well, just to put it in context, he was a one in a century human being really. and if you think about the different businesses he revolutionized, joe. not only computing, but music, retailing, demonstrations by ceos, even. everything, all these things. but even more than that, he changed our society and our culture. he brought technology to the ordinary individual. before steve jobs and apple, technology was really a big box, mainframe kind of thing that ibm and other companies dominated or boring pcs put out by dell and hp and he brought consumer technology to the fore. personally as you're right, joe, i did have numerous sit-downs, interviews, conversations with him. he could be a difficult person sometimes, certainly charismatic, people would follow him to the end. and it's telling right now you're not seeing people from apple out there talking about him. he controlled that company. people respect him there in a way that they don't respect any other ceo who walks the face of the earth. and really this is a guy who was one of the most important people in america and really in the world. it's kind of hard to overstate his importance and his significance and his contribution to our lives. >> donny, you are an advertising guru, and you've spent your life looking at companies and trying to sell those companies to america and the world. steve jobs with the apple company he created, he was simply in a league by himself, wasn't he? >> yeah, and to pick up where andy left off. how many people can we say in our lifetime or any lifetime changed the way we live for the better? it's that simple. you want to talk about a game changer. i can't think of anybody in our lifetime. it's very interesting, he talked on willie's show about -- he even revolutionized the advertising business. the 1984 commercial was the first example of using the super bowl to kind of just display your wares. literally one more industry when he dipped his toe in the water, he changed the way we do business. there's no better demonstration of the man than a commercial a few years ago he did for apple called "think different." and in the commercial you would see einstein and picasso and muhammad ali and martin luther king. here's to the people who thought outside of the box, and that's what he was about. you even heard it in his speech in that commencement. and you know, i think at some point during the show, we can find that commercial in black and white, it is his homage to who we are and game changers. let's play it right now. >> well, you know, i would love for it to play. listen to this. >> you can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, about the only thing you can't do is ignore them. because they change things, they push the human race forward. and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do. >> willie, that came out at a time when steve jobs -- steve jobs had been fired from apple. in the early '90s. they called him back to save the company. a few years later, and he put that ad out and other ads out like that. and there was a remarkable turn around. he agreed to work for $1 a year. i still remember the first time i saw that commercial. i was walking through a room, i stopped and just stared at it in my tracks. i immediately said i've got to get one of those apples. i never had an apple before. but it was remarkable. this one man, this one man came back to a broken company, turned it around, and changed the world. >> and didn't just turn it around. that company when he came back as you know, joe, was on the ropes. yesterday the stock price closed at $378.25. it went back and forth a month or two ago with exxon as the highest valued company in the world. and the thing i love a about this story, mike barnicle, is at this time when we keep hearing about how china is passing us by and the sun is setting on the american empire, it reminds you about what's possible in america. in 1976, steve jobs and his buddy steve wozniak in his garba garage, went with an investment of $1,300 and started apple. and now if you owned four shares, you'd have more than $1,400. >> that's our hope. there are other garages out there. there are other people out there tinkering with things like this. the thing about steve jobs and apple, it's kind of interesting depending on your perspective. you get the business perspective, you get the communications perspective. if you get on the subway here in new york, you will see -- you will be surrounded by young people, 18, 25, 30 years with the ipod deal. you also see people of middle age and of old age with other apple products. the access to communicative tools that steve jobs gave the world is astounding. literally changed the lives of billions of people. the internet comes along and you can get there like that with an apple product. >> there's one more -- >> go ahead. >> it's been said a great institution is but the length and shadow of a single man, and that's what steve jobs was. he was not only the brilliant inventor and the genius, he's the salesman up there, and he's the executive running the company. he's got this tremendous story as people have pointed out where he goes down and out and comes back. and he's got this tragic illness and comes back again. he's a charismatic figure. and that's right. what you're pointing out is in the 1980s we've had it if we've lost it now. nobody says that any other country really built something like silicon valley. we did it first. i can remember after i left reagan's white house, i went down to this computer store and i said, look, i don't know how to use these machines. i've got to write a book. and the kid says, don't get that, mr. buchanan, get this. and i said if you can show me how to work this in two hours, i'll buy it. i think i've still got that one and i haven't upgraded it. but it was simple and it was with it and it was neat. and it still is. the mac, the computer, it still is. >> is this the one you have? this wood cover? >> that was the first, right? >> one model after that. >> tremendously overused word, lifestyle. and this is the man that understood products were about lifestyle. and that's where you go to that subway car. >> what about executive style? he didn't focus group, which is hard for us to fathom. did he really go that far and just say i'm going to do what i think is right? i'm going to tell the people what they want before they even know what they want? is that a fair way to characterize his style? >> absolutely. he went by his gut in a way that no other business executive even dare do, even dare conceive of doing in the age of mbas and focus groups and all that. and one of the big words he used, donny, was taste. and you talk about microsoft having bad taste and you guys don't know how to do things. i have the taste. i know how to do things. and it was ironic talking about that ad campaign and those geniuses and he ends up being one of those himself. >> it was remarkable to watch last night around the apple stores, there are vigils being held for a guy who invented a computer around the world. but you could walk by them, flowers being laid out, people standing around talking about steve jobs, which, i think, says it all. >> it's absolutely stunning. and andy, i want you to talk about the way the corporation was run, as well. because they brought in people from the outside. they brought in a pepsi ceo that was used to running a corporation the way corporations were run. and he came into apple and he realized it was upside down world. everything was different. the executives -- they thought different not just in making their products, but in running their company. the culture was dramatic, it was different. and it is a culture that a lot of ceos that are used to -- used to the way companies are usually run just wouldn't survive in. >> that's right. you were talkin about john scully who was ultimately forced out, left. the culture of the company is one of -- it echoes mirrors what steve jobs created. it's incredibly determined, incredibly cohesive, it's incredibly challenging to work there. and it'shigh lly secretive. here's a company that could introduce a revolutionary product and the details not leak out at all and then steve jobs would have this press conference that the whole world would tune into and the next day this product would be all over the country just like that. an amazing execution. >> you know, joe, one of the more interesting aspects of apple, at least to my eye is that i know of a couple of ceos of major companies who after visiting an apple store to purchase a product went back to their companies and had their top executives go to apple stores to see how to better interact with the consumer. because you go into an apple store, you get instant service, if your iphone doesn't work or whatever, go to the genius bar, get it all taken care of right there. if it doesn't work, give it to us, here's another. >> and it had a profound effect on me as an individual building our company. we were always very, very conscious of our culture. almost kind of bred that thing. and that didn't exist in the business world before him. he had a profound effect on the way every business does business. >> and i remember asking him about that. he said computer stores suck to use his word. you go in, there's no one there, they're terrible, and i'm going to change it completely. so he would see things. you don't have to do things that way. people would complain about this type of phone, you can't use the internet. why not? why not? why not? and engineers would come and say, well, steve, we can't do it. and he'd say, get out of my office, you can, and don't come back until it's done. and that was it. his word was law that way at the company. >> joe? >> you know, the thing is too also. you know the thing is also there's so many things when you look around this country that just don't seem to work. our infrastructure's breaking down, service as you talk about service, mike barnicle, in those stores, service is bad. so many things don't work. i remember taking a flight from new york to l.a. and it was one hiccup after another. and when i landed in l.a., i turned to mika and said you know what's wrong with america? we talk every morning about america. you know what's wrong with america? and i can't say exactly what i said, but i turned to her and said stuff doesn't work. stuff doesn't work. we have forgotten how to be efficient. we have forgotten how to do things better than everybody else. the real genius for me, personally, of steve jobs was the stripped down design. if it's not simple, if it's not stripped down, if you can't put your -- perhaps it's not the type of genius approach that we need to turn this country around. steve jobs knew how to do it, and i always kind of wondered why that guy wasn't pulled to washington more to try to figure out how to make our country work. because right now, things don't work, steve jobs did. >> you know, joe, there's a phrase that i think everyone in this world uses that we all use that i bet never past the lips of steve jobs, no, don't worry about it. no, it's time to worry about it. >> steve jobs in washington, i'm imagining that, joe, that would have been something. he has no patience for any of that nonsense. and he would've gone through there like a buzz saw. but you're so right about the simplicity. pat was talking about, you can go in. all the devices had to be intuitive. no instruction manual. you never needed an instruction manual. you just plug it in. >> i went home and started using. i did have to call him once. and it was a cache to owners. >> and you know, willie, i just -- and willie, that simplicity is right. you didn't need the instruction manual. i remember how revolutionary it was the first time i got an imac. when i got a pc, it took forever to figure out how to get online. and get the thing started and get all the apps working together. with an apple, you open it up, five minutes later you're online, and you're going. and that sort of simplicity, that genius coupled with the simplicity is what made apple work and quite frankly has destroyed a lot of pc companies. >> and suddenly computers weren't so daunting anymore. like mike was talking about. it was accessible. you open the package, three steps, you're on your way. a lot more about the life and legacy of steve jobs coming up. we'll also talk to florida governor rick scott, ed rendell, and tom vilsack. after the break, politico's top stories of the morning. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. good morning, everyone. if you're joining us from northern new england, your heat's probably kicking this morning and you're going to want the heat on in the car before you get in there too. temperatures down in the low 30s in some areas. the coldest morning we've seen so far over the fall season. but don't worry about it, this is short-lived. we have a beautiful warm-up headed our way today. temperatures jumping up to the low 60s. and take a look, not just new england that's going to be great the next five days. look at detroit, cleveland, chicago, this forecast is the same even in pittsburgh, 70s, widespread, the warm air in the midwest heading to the east coast. we'll be in the low 80s today. as far north as minneapolis. and temperatures are still very warm down on the gulf. watch out if you're traveling on the inner mountain west. yesterday, california was hit by high winds and heavy snow. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the peace of mind of owning a 2011 iihs top safety pick. the all-new volkswagen passat. i've got to tell susie ! the vending machine on elm is almost empty. i'm on it, boss. new pony ? sorry ! we are open for business. let's reroute greg to fresno. growing businesses use machine-to-machine technology from verizon wireless. susie ! the vending machine... already filled. cool bike. because the business with the best technology rules. let's take a look at this morning's parade of papers. we start with the st. paul pioneer press. the fight against childhood obesity has taken an odd twist with the government wanting kids to eat more vegetables, but not peas and corn. part of the fda's limit of starchy vegetables served in school lunches. it's caused an uproar in minnesota, the top grower of peas and sweet corn served by schools. >> there's going to be nothing left. >> what can they eat? leave us alone. >> have a nice paper sandwich for lunch, kids. for the first time in two decades, there will be no columbus day parade in the city of albany. organizers say the parade is a casualty of dwindling crowds and young people not as closely linked to their cultural roots. rick perry gets $17 million worth of good news. that brings us to the top story in the politico playbook. joining us is jim vandehei. >> good morning. >> rick perry's debate performances, him slipping in the polls. but now this number $17 million in the last quarter has to be a shot in the arm for his campaign. >> a big shot in the arm. they haven't spent that much of it. he has $15 million cash on hand, which means he has a lot of money to wage a battle. he's probably better positioned than anyone else to be that alternative, but he needs to put together a string of speech and debate performances. you can do a lot with $15 million. he needs to take that and keep building on it, get momentum to prove that he can raise enough to go the distance against romney who has raised a ton of money, getting a lot more establishment money, more will be flowing in the days ahead as some of these big donors that were going to back chris christie are moving quickly over to romney. >> let me ask you a quick question. one, have you changed my chris christie column to past tense? and two, did most of that $17 million that rick perry got, did he get that before his debate performances? i mean, i -- the romney camp thinks, yeah, okay, you raise $17 million, good luck raising $7 million the rest of the campaign. >> yeah, no doubt that i think it's starting to slow after those debate performances because he had huge momentum getting into them. republicans who are interested in this race are watching the debates. they're watching almost all of them. and then they're reacting to it. and he had an opportunity to really, i think, almost put mitt romney away if he could've had a fabulous performance in those three. but his performances were so bad and gave so many conservatives pause that you saw not only that drop in his poll numbers, but you saw also a big drop in enthusiasm for thinking he's the guy that could beat mitt romney. >> and also worth pointing out, jim, ron paul raised over $8 million in the third quarter with 100,000 individual donors. keep us updated on this politico primary. we talked about it yesterday. you got some people coming in online. who are some of the nominees? >> we've asked readers now to throw in their nominations for someone that would fit their idea of who would be a plausible third party candidate. a lot of people pushing for michael bloomberg. some pushing for matt damon, the actor. some pushing for jon stewart. >> angelina jolie. >> it could be a ticket. >> yeah. >> i don't think matt damon or jon stewart are dumb enough to leave their jobs to run for president. >> they have better gigs. >> exactly. >> thank you so much. >> i've got a quick question for you. i don't know much about this tv thing. >> sure. >> i'm a dumb country lawyer. but it seems to me that our delay is better in this segment than it was last segment. >> isn't that something? >> see what we did -- >> yeah, so my question is this -- why is that? because i'm talking to t.j. during the break and i say, t.j., the delay is about 2 1/2 to 3 days long, and he says, oh, do you want me to fix that? >> it's fixed. >> i'm like, yeah, sure. he fixes it. what's going on? >> you know what, joe, we've been talking about steve jobs who is a revolutionary, t.j.'s a revolutionary. if you want something different, delay our answers by three seconds, but just with a flip of a switch, he can change that. >> you don't want a three-second delay that completely slows down an entire conversation? okay. flips the switch. what are we going to do with him? you know, steve jobs wouldn't have fired t.j. steve jobs would've shot him. anyway -- >> wow. that's t.j. >> maybe not shot you. maybe just handcuffed you to a radiator. >> sarah palin reveals to the world, sorry, pat, she's not running for president. >> he's bumming out over there. >> he's bumming out? it's not quite the black cat at shea stadium, but a squirrel made an appearance. >> second game in a row. >> i saw that squirrel before. it's the same one, isn't it? >> sports is next. i want healthy skin for life. 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>> yes, i look forward to hearing from them, look forward to working with them. maybe help them articulate their message in detail so we can make that best decision of who that nomination should be to unseat barack obama. >> sarah palin hasn't been part of the conversation for the last several months. >> she said she didn't want a big darn press conference. but i do think this, romney, clearly, a lot of people moving to romney. but romney has got to get the energy and excitement, that rumble that's over there on the right that keeps looking for another candidate. he's got to i think either bring those people to him some way or go out in iowa and shut this thing down so that thing doesn't break apart from him. one guy that can still do it because of his money here is perry, but he's an underdog. >> you talk about this -- this is very interesting about how palin was so appealing to people and she was out of the box. i don't think out of the box is vogue these days. i think the thing about romney, he's vanilla, he's boring, is his appeal. there's something very dated. i find it interesting, she didn't want to call a press conference because she never uses the press. >> if i was around these guys, i would be nervous, but i would get in iowa, win iowa, new hampshire, and shut this down by the end of january. >> in 1988, mike dukakis uttered a foolish phrase running for president at that time when he said this election is going to be about competence, not ideology. elections are almost always about ideology except this year competence might play a huge factor. >> well, that's -- >> and that's how he's running. >> that's his long suit, his trump card. and romney, he's playing it all for that too. >> romney's going to get the money and ultimately will get the backing of the party. but i just -- you just wonder will he be appealing enough to the national electorate? >> absolutely. mike just said. we talked about this last week that word competence. everybody knows there's no room -- no margin of error now. not like, wow, let's take a chance or this person's interesting, exciting. meat and potatoes down the middle. everything he's done has been about competence. >> there's part of this country, both on the left and on the right that wants passion, ideology, fire, a cause. and i'll tell you, in romney, i think his vice president, i think he'll pick someone who will try to bring that in there, someone like rubio. >> no chris christie, no sarah palin, where does the field sit right now? where is it going? >> you know what? the big shakeout came when chris christie decided not to run. and immediately, you started seeing some of the biggest donors sitting on the sidelines for a year and a half two years immediately picking up the phone and trying to be the first to call mitt romney and say we've been on your side all along, buddy, which is why sarah palin knew she had to drop out yesterday because she understood, this whole game of candidates teasing about maybe getting in, not getting in, that was happening because republican donors, the biggest republican donors were frozen on the sidelines. that is coming to an end quickly. mitt romney's phone has been ringing off the hook from people saying, mitt, we've be with you all along. so that's not that surprising. i do want to say one thing about, mike barnicle, the competence issue. i think -- you talked about michael dukakis in 1988. you know, this election takes me back to 1980. and it takes me back to 1980 because as great as ronald reagan's legend is now and as much as that legend has grown, mike barnicle, i guarantee you election night, 99 out of 100 smart people you were talking to in boston, massachusetts, were saying there's no way this guy can win. this "b" list actor, i remember frank reynolds on election night 1980 asking in despair, what the hell is going on out there? and yet ronald reagan won not because ronald reagan, he won because america collectively decided that weekend -- because the election was tied on friday, we can't take four more years of jimmy carter. we're going to have to fire him because this country is not headed in the right direction. that's barack obama's challenge. this election will not be about mitt romney. it's just not going to. the white house is going to try to make it about mitt romney. but if he's the nominee, it's going to end up being about barack obama and barack obama only. and that may not be good news for the white house a year from now. >> joe, there's no doubt about that. no doubt about that. but to run against barack obama is the same -- similar, very similar to ronald reagan running against jimmy carter. we had the misery index in the '70s, high inflation, we had people thinking that the best days of this country were behind us. many of the same ingredients today. and you're right, it's going to be about barack obama, not mitt romney, but mitt romney's pull card is, hey, i know how to do this. i know how to put people to work. >> before we go, you talked about voters after christie backed out calling up romney. i know one guy on the planet a christie backer, romney called him 20 minutes after a christie. so the phones worked in both ways. >> you know, an amazing thing with romney's phone, it takes calls and receives calls. the romney people had a great day yesterday. they are about as excited as i have heard them in the five years that he's been running for president. i think they really feel like this is their time. and it seems unless he really stubs his toe or rick perry learns a second language, english, it seems this is mitt romney's time. what? what? i think rick perry right now is his biggest enemy. coming up next, my interview with florida governor rick scott. you're watching "morning joe" from beautiful pensacola, florida. so if i didn't know better i'd say you're having some sort of big tire sale. yes we are. yeah. how many tires does ford buy every year? over 3 million. you say you can beat any advertised price on tires? correct. anywhere? yes. like this price? yes. riously? yes what about this one? i'll beat it. this one? s we will. right, i only have one more question for you...this one? 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should marco rubio given the opportunity -- tried to be vice president? or should he push it away? >> you grab it, joe. he is young, charismatic, conservative, hispanic, and the neo conservatives love him. and when that train comes by, you get aboard. that's the richard nixon situation of 1950. >> is he ready? is he ready? two years in the united states senate. we've -- it seems like we've seen this before. and -- >> right. >> and it's a mistake, is it not, for somebody to jump in before they're ready? >> well, tell it to barack obama. he's president of the united states. marco rubio, my guess would be unless there's some inhibiting factor, he would take it and it would be a romney/rubio ticket would be a powerful ticket for the republicans, joe. no doubt about it. >> well, there are a lot of people around barack obama that are now wishing he would've actually waited to spend a couple of years in washington before he jumped in to run for president of the united states. so this quick rush to jump onboard that train that you're talking about before you're ready to jump on the train usually doesn't end well for the candidate or the country. but we shall see. >> but it may put you, joe, into the vice presidency or the presidency of the united states if you've got a shot at it. always, i think, if you believe and you want to be president one day and there's an opening like that, i believe you take it. i guess the opposite argument is christie. if he doesn't feel he's ready, he doesn't have the heart and soul and gut, then you don't do it. >> all right. well, we shall see what happens. of course, we're talking about marco rubio from the state of florida. we're, of course, here in pensacola. and last night, i interviewed florida's governor rick scott about the state of the economy in northwest florida. and across the state as well as the nation and also about the two governors that he knows very well. mitt romney and rick perry. and i asked him who he thought would be a better president. this is my interview with governor scott. >> let me ask you this question, we interview a lot of governors, as you know, we interview that lot of senators, a lot of congressmen, you seem to be extraordinarily engaged. you seem to be as some of our people at msnbc would say, you seem to lean forward an awful lot. very aggressive about dragging jobs not only to northwest florida, but across the state. and this is isn't a set-up question. i'm just curious, you've done a great job of marketing northwest florida to america, have you done a good job of marketing rick scott to florida? because your approval ratings are low. it seems you're fighting night and day for doing what mika and i say every morning on the show, governors and presidents should do. and obsess on one thing and one thing only, jobs. >> it's jobs. >> and that's what you're doing. it's not just a campaign platform. >> no. it's all jobs. >> i'm not being nice. i'm not nice. i'm just wondering, why is it you're doing what politicians need to do but your approval rating is in the 30s? >> wellious you know, i made the toughest choices. i mean, look, we had to fix education, i got rid of tenure. i started merit pay for teachers, expanded opportunity scholarships. everybody doesn't like that. >> right. >> i had to cut the budget. i walked in with a $3.4 billion budget deficit. that doesn't make you happy when you have to cut things. it's more fun to add things. >> whose fault was that? >> i mean -- >> was it crist? no, but here's the thing, though. i talked about before about my friend charlie hilton. he growls about the fact that when republicans took control of the legislature, especially the senate, he said they were worse than the democrats. republicans own the legislature for the past decade. how could a conservative republican legislature leave us with almost $4 billion debt? >> i think the state thought that it was going to continue to grow forever. we went from a high-growth state to stopping our growth. and, you know, so all i think about is what i've got to do. if i -- if i surround myself with smart people running agencies, think about why people move to states. taxes. tell me what the permitting process is like, tell me what the regulations are like. if i have a problem, are you going to help me solve it or be a pain? that's what they worry about, and then they love florida. everybody's been here, they love to move here, so now i'm going to make it easy. >> right. >> i'm sorry. i didn't answer that question completely. if you think about my job, i'm supposed to make the tough choices. i said i would. but then the really important thing long-term is if i make this state the most likely state to succeed, i'll be fine. and that's what i'm doing. that's all i care about. that's what i ran on. i care about this country, this state. i grew up in public housing. people need jobs. that's what changes your life. >> yeah. let's talk about tenure. you said you ended tenure in florida. >> for new teachers. >> for new teachers. so if you're a new teacher coming in, tenure's done. >> yeah. >> what if i'm a principal and i've got a teacher who has been around for 15 years and this teacher's just not cutting it? >> it's hard. >> is it still going to be really hard to get them out of the classroom? >> everybody says it's doable, it just doesn't happen. >> why is that? why is it, the great nfl quarterback -- if you ran football teams like you run schools, your football team would fail, it would go out of business. >> it makes no sense. think about it, if you have a business, you guarantee people jobs forever? you're not guaranteed a job forever, right? and look, it makes you better. >> who supports taking competition out of schools? i know the teachers unions -- >> teachers unions. teachers don't necessarily. >> teachers don't necessarily and the public doesn't. >> no. >> why is it so hard with the republican governor, with a republican senate, with a republican house to end tenure for teachers that just don't perform? >> people lobby aggressively. we did it, but it -- >> did the senate let you down? >> no, we got rid of tenure for the year. >> but you couldn't do it for the old teachers? >> the question is contractually can you do it? >> for somebody new, you can clearly do it. what fights do you want to have? >> right. >> everything i'm going to do in education, i'm going to make sure it's for the benefit of a child. and i'm doing the same thing on hiring. we're going to make sure our dollars put towards our universities and state colleges, we're going to get kids degrees that they can get jobs. >> let me ask you about past governors. we talked about charlie crist. charlie crist and jeb bush -- we interviewed jeb this past week in new york on education nation. and you look at what he started on the education reform. it's really inspiring. are you a jeb bush fan? >> absolutely. >> did he do a great job starting the push for education? >> he did. if you think about what he did well is he started the process. there's more things we can do. we did the tenure this year, merit pay this year, expanding charter schools. he did a great job on charter schools. i think we have more than california. we have over 400 charter schools. as a parent, you ought to be able to choose where your child goes to school. what program are you going to watch on tv? what grocery store are you going to go to? you ought to have a choice. what happens with choice? the quality goes up. he did a great job. there's always more to do and we're going to continue things that he started with. >> you know, chris crihristie, what do you think of his decision not to run? >> i like people running. i saw governor romney today. and i like people running. >> are you impressed with governor romney? >> i think one thing you like about governor romney, he's got a business background, knows how to make a payroll. you know, he cares about this country, he's worked his tail off to become president. but i like him because he's got a business background. >> have you endorsed anybody yet? >> no, no. >> so who's it going to be? rick perry or mitt romney? >> i like both rick perry and mitt romney. we just had the straw poll the other day. i like both of them. i compete with perry all the time on jobs because he's done a better job than anybody else in building jobs. and i'm competing with him moving those potential 2,000 jobs to florida. but you know, look, romney's got a good background, business guy. >> sounds like a win/win as far as you're concerned? >> absolutely. here's what i want. i want the person that has the best jobs plan. it's the biggest issue we have in the country, the biggest issue in the world really. it's jobs, jobs, jobs. >> it is a global challenge. all right, governor, thanks so much. and keep up the good work. >> appreciate it. 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[ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. you've just seen some pictures of macintosh. now i'd like to show you macintosh in person. all of the images you are about to see on the larger screen will be generated by what's in that bag. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> wow. we are live at the fish house in pensacola, florida, this morning. and still up with us in new york, willie geist, mike barnicle, pat buchanan, and donny deutsch, and we have nbc news political analyst ed rendell. and from columbus, ohio, we have "new york times" columnist joe nosera who has written extens e extensively about steve jobs. >> and we talked the first hour a little bit about steve jobs' impact on america. and on the world. it is absolutely stunning. and in these days, we so hear so much about america's decline that all eyes this morning turned to a man who showed really the essence of the american dream. a guy that started a company in his garage on a $1,200 loan and literally shook the world like few people over the past century. >> we were able to watch that transformation over the course of our lifetimes. i remember my first mac. and before them, when there was nothing, it was amazing. >> and what was so amazing, 1984, i was about to graduate college, but did you see what made audiences scream in 1984. >> it seemed so simple. >> but that shows you how revolutionary steve jobs and the world that he brought to us has been. that is something that if my 3-year-old came to me with something that scrolled across the screen that looked like that 1984 demonstration, i'd pat him on the head and say that's really cute, thank you so much. but now we fast forward to 2011 and steve jobs, again, he changed the world like few before him in america. certainly, you've got to put him up there with inventeinventors thomas edison. >> he was a dictator who listened mainly to his own intuition. he had an astonishing esthetic sense, which business people almost always lack. he could be absolutely brutal in meetings. i watched him eviscerate staff members for their bozo ideas. and i was talking to someone who worked with steve jobs for quite some time last night and this matches what joe has written quite well. >> the big question this morning, how does apple respond moving forward with a strong leader now gone? let's read the news briefly and we'll go to joe and get his take with the rest of the panel. >> we start with steve jobs. legend, game changer, just a few of the words being used to describe steve jobs. he succumb to pancreatic cancer at the age of 56. becoming the driving force behind one of the most dominant names in technology. jobs not only revolutionized the computer industry, but also changed the landscape of music as well as the way we simply communicate. however, a bitter fight with his hand-picked successor led jobs ousted from the company back in 1985, the setback was temporary as jobs used the time to found another company and it was another computer company, of course, and buy the animation studio pixar from george lucas. in an ironic twist, that new computer company called next was later bought by apple paving the way for jobs to return as a consultant in 1996. he was named interim ceo the following year famously taking just $1 a year salary and permanent ceo in 2000. here is the well-known think different campaign of 1998 that marked his return. >> here's to the crazy ones. the misfits, the rebels. the troublemakers. the round pegs in the square holes, the ones who see things differently. they're not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo. you can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. about the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things. they push the human race forward. and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do. >> joe, that short commercial was the birth cry of a revolution that not only saved apple, it changed america and the world. talk about that turn around in what steve jobs has meant not only to his company, but to our country and the world. >> well, a lot. i have to say, i love the way you started this segment because it's the applause when the mac was unveiled, sounded a little bit like a beatles concert. and that's the kind of enthusiasm steve jobs and his products could entertain. but think about it. he starts with making the first computer that a normal person could use as opposed to a hobbyist. that's the apple 2 that came out of his garage. the macintosh, integrates a mouse and a look and feel of all the computers we have with icons and all of that. i mean, that came out of apple. then he leaves, you know, he has his years in the wilderness and he comes back and he not only creates these imacs which have color in them and a new esthetic, but then he creates the ipod, which is the first time the music industry agrees to allow legal digital music to be sold. and then the iphone, which completely changes the way the phone business works, and then the ipad, which was a product that most people when they first saw it said what am i going to use this for? and now it's a product that everybody wants to have and competitors are trying and failing to emulate. that's about five or six computer technology revolutions right there. >> you know, joe, just reading the column that you wrote about him and getting a sense of him, what do you think was the core of his genius? what made him able to do what he did? >> i think there are two things. one is that he had a truly amazing gut instinct for what people were going to want, what was going to delight people. he would often say the customer doesn't know what he or she wants until i give it to them. and so he didn't really do focus groups, he didn't do a lot of market research. he just had an incredible instinct that people are going to love the look and feel of this phone and all the wonderful things i'm going to let them do on this phone as opposed to any other thing that has come before. that's point one. the second part of it, though, has to do with his own sort of discipline and attention to detail and micromanaging where he basically threw the rule book out for how management should work and how leaders should act. and he was involved in every detail. and his standards were so high. and meeting those standards were so difficult for people that, you know, when the product actually came to market, it was beautiful. it was perfect. you know, and i think it's the combination of those two things that made him great. >> ed rendell, we've been hearing about people talk about the decline of america. we've heard this before. we heard in the late 1970s, in the '60s. and here we are reminded again about how in america only -- only steve jobs could do what he did. in america. and it is the truth. go around the world, you're not going to find a place where a guy can start a company for $1,200 in his garage and change the world, the way steve jobs did. because his essence really at his core, he was the american. that always asked the tough questions, that always demanded more, that always believed anything was possible. >> yeah, joe, i agree with you. and you said a few minutes ago. you used the term pioneer spirit. we don't have that many can do americans that we used to have. we don't have that many americans who are smart, creative, and willing to take risks. we don't have many corporate leaders that have a long-term vision for their company and their products. and steve jobs did. and he's a lesson for america. we've got to start doing things again. we've got to start taking some prudent risks. we've got to get out there and create. when we do, we're the best in the world and nobody can top us. but we need more steve jobs out there, and that's why his passing is such a loss not just for his company, but the country. >> donny, let's talk about the apple brand as a guy who sells and promotes brands for a living. i can't think and i've been thinking all morning and last night of another brand where they put something out and without the consumer even having any information about what the product is, they pre-order it or line up at the store to buy it. can you think of a parallel to that? >> the only brand i can think of that connects with people as deeply is nike. you know, nike. and it's interesting, they had an anthem just do it. so the brands that understand, yes, they're selling something. what's so brilliant about jobs. he was in the technology business, but he was in the people business, the lifestyle business. and he was the guy that took technology and human beings and brought them together. and understood he was selling -- when you buy an apple, you're buying the technology, but you're buying who i am. you're part of a club. that 1984 commercial was basically establishment, are you the new guy? well, if you're the new guy versus the establishment, you are an apple consumer. before you get to the product, i buy into the set values. a brand is a set of values. >> and also -- >> this is that ad right here, 1984 played at the super bowl that year, go ahead, mike. >> let's not underestimate. the apple is a computer. its ability to connect generations. 10-year-olds, everybody wearing ipods in their ears listening to music. and yet if you want your elderly parent to start sending e-mail, you get an apple computer, and it's so simple, it gives such access to all the communications tools that we have today. i'm looking at pat buchanan, he's 89 -- >> you're right. you know you make that point, don. it was simple, and that kid at the store can explain that to me. i'm saying, how does this thing work? and you walked out and there was a real cache and we're the apple/mac generation and it crosses all lines. >> joe scarborough, we talk about the legacy of steve jobs and the people he inspired, all you have to do is read a couple of statements that came out last night. the google guys say larry and i sought inspiration for vision and leadership when we needed it, we look no further than coopertino, apple headquarters. mark zukerburg writing, thank you for being a mentor and a friend. thanks for showing what you build can change the world. his legacy lives on in google, facebook, and so many others. >> and not just in the technology sector. but what makes him so remarkable is, again, it lives on whether you're on 59th street and fifth avenue or whether you're in an apple store in bethesda, maryland, or in the grove in los angeles. all across this country this guy -- this guy's fingerprints are all over american culture. and you know, mika, you look at what steve jobs has become to this country. and we talk about thomas edison. he actually is a combination of thomas edison and john, paul, george, and ringo. you cannot overstate the impact he's had on not only those guys and the tech world but the impact he's had on my 3-year-old, my 8-year-old, my 20-year-old, my 23-year-old, your children, our children. even 89-year-olds like pat buchanan, he has changed -- he rocked the world. he was a one-man revolution, and there just aren't other people we have -- >> you mentioned your kids. think about just the impact on education for years to come that he will have had. think about our children and how they learn, how they communicate, how they do anything. he has touched everybody's lives in every way. >> there's no doubt about it. and joe, mika brings up a great point. my 3-year-old jackie was born premature, he had problems speaking, it took him a little while, he was a slow learner. so what did i do? i went to the apple store and i downloaded an app that he could learn -- you know say basic words. and it was so intuitive. and this is the genius of apple. and it's what enrages me now with so many other products that are not intuitive. because i now have the steve jobs standard for a product in my head. it's so intuitive, that i didn't have to teach my 3-year-old son how to use the app. i just gave him the ipad and he's scrolling and he goes and he uses it himself. it's stunning, joe, it's genius. >> it is true. and that goes all the way back to the macintosh and the first personal computer in terms of he wanted to make it easy for people to use. one other thing amazing to me is that so many other companies, you know, why do other companies need steve jobs to point the way for them to all follow? why can't they figure this out themselves or get ahead of the game? but the truth of the matter is, this stuff -- making this stuff simple and easy is, in fact, really hard. and steve jobs is one of the very few leaders who is willing to say, no, that's not easy enough. that's not simple enough, that's not good enough, go back and do it again. whereas most corporate executives would say, okay, well, we'll put this one up for now and then try to do a better one later. that wasn't the way he operated and thought. and i think those standards have a lot to do with why your 3-year-old finds the ipad or an iphone so easy to use. >> and ed rendell, we've used names thomas edison this morning, henry ford, any time you pass away in the next morning they're comparing you to the greatest innovators in the history of civilization, you've done something right with your life. >> sure. americans who change the world. and we need more of them. and i believe they're out there. i believe there are steve jobses in apple and other companies. but is our current corporate structure going to allow them come to the fore? allow them to ignore the risks and develop stuff? i don't know. >> hey, it's interesting. of course, i think he's left us the ultimate gift, the ultimate road map. if in those commercials we saw earlier, the anthem was think different. the new ipad commercial is a great time to learn. and what he demonstrates is everything we've been talking about here, young people, old people, he's basically understood i've got the product, it's where we need to go. great words to live by. it's a great time to learn. >> does his passing bring us back to a time that reagan era et cetera that is now gone? as governor rendell says, where are these fellas? has america's time past? we're reflecting so much on this individual who defined that day when everybody expected america to be number one to be first. there was no other conclusion to reach. >> last word to you. give pat buchanan some hope that the time is not past. >> pat -- if you -- pat, if you spend any time in silicon valley, you can have hope. and i spent time recently in charlotte and other places in north carolina, and saw robotic plants and i think they give you hope too. >> pat, you need to get to is silicon valley more often. coming up next, what would our world have looked like without steve jobs? we'll ask tom brokaw ahead. and tom vilsack joins us here onset. you're watching "morning joe" approved by starbucks. welcome back to "morning joe." we're joined now here in new york city by the secretary of agriculture, tom vilsack. mr. secretary, good to see you. >> it's good to be here. >> we were having an interesting conversation about steve jobs. you said an important word, fearless. steve jobs is fearless. how does that apply to what we're doing today in this country? >> i think part of the problem we have is we're fearful. folks have convinced us to look inward, to be anxious about the future. this country has never operated at its best when it's fearful. i think steve jobs and all the innovators and entrepreneurs of this country have been fearless and that's when we operate our best. i happen to be working in a field right now with the american farmer and rancher who is fearless. they put a crop in the ground every day. and it's part of a story that's not told very often in the economy. trade surpluses, job growth, record income levels because american agriculture takes a risk every day. >> who has made us fearful? what has changed? >> all the conversation about the economy, about the fact that we've got an unemployment rate, you know, everybody understands we have an unemployment rate, we've got to put people back to work. the president's proposed the american jobs act. we need to get something done to sort of send the message we're back in the game. i think the infrastructure spending is one way to do that, providing tax relief to small businesses is another way to do it. we have to send a signal. and folks have to start thinking optimistically about the future. again, this country, i challenge this panel. you tell me one time in this country's history that we've operated successfully when we've been fearful. one time. i can give you a hundred examples of when we've been fearless accepting enormous challenges. we're now in a competitive economy, in a very difficult global economy, america can lead the world out of this. >> you know, we sit here in this urban cocoon, and you just indicated that you're having a record year in agriculture and employment is terrific and everything like that. we have no frame of reference for that. what does it mean to have a record year in agriculture for the rest of the country? >> well, 1 out of every 12 jobs in this country is connected to agriculture. what it means is that farmers and ranchers are enjoying real success for the first time in a while. it means we're exporting more of our american products overseas, $135 billion of ag exports leaves us with a $42 billion trade surplus. agreements that are pending in congress when they get approved, you're going to see those numbers increase. specifically the korean free trade agreement, enormous opportunity for us. >> why is it that they still have this mental picture of the family farm disappearing, though in spite of these record years? >> there are large production-sized agricultural farms. we saw there were 100,000 new operations started in this country, very small operations. and these are folks connecting locally and regionally. farmers markets, community-supported agriculture activities. there's an entrepreneurship, an energy occurring in rural america. what we need to do now is make sure there are appropriate investments into the infrastructure that services that. talking about broadband, highways, the thing that will allow us to expand dramatically. the other thing that happened is agriculture is changing from a commodity-based industry to an ingredient-based industry. when you change something from a commodity that is priced on a market to an ingredient that each of which has a separate and distinct value, you can really generate a lot of interesting activity. and i think the next great innovation in this country is going to come from a bio based innovation. >> you have an interesting perspective of being part of the president's cabinet. handicap iowa for us. why don't you share that with us? >> the president is focused on putting people back to work and i'm convinced because of that he's going to win iowa. i'm not an expert with republican politics, certainly with pat buchanan here, he's much more of an expert. it's fairly obvious there's going to be a two-person race. i would expect and anticipate that governor perry will get his act together and that should be a fairly competitive race in iowa. >> governor, one of the problems, obviously, in washington is the gridlock making the american people apprehensive. and you mentioned the jobs bill. harry reid said he doesn't have the votes in the senate, dick durbin says we don't have the votes. what is the problem? >> well, they're not listening to people, not listening to folks back home. the folks back home want action. that's one of the reasons we're looking at ways to take action. we just announced an interesting partnership between the department of energy and the department of the navy and the usda to create a new aviation drop in fuel made from bio fuels. it can make us far more secure. we just announced an effort to try to reduce the amount of time it takes us to get transmission line. >> right. i want to ask you, why don't reid and durbin put the vote out there. as you say, be fearless, say listen, fellas, vote on it. he's been out in the country, the country's with him. vote on it. >> i would encourage the house and the senate to do that. >> you couldn't be more right about two things he talked about. one, again, as i said about steve jobs, we need risk takers, prudent risk takers who are going to take risks to move the country forward, that's number one. number two, we've got to understand that we invest public dollars in helping those risk takers. as tom said, agriculture needs infrastructure, industry needs infrastructure. tom, i mean, is there any chance we have of getting the congress to understand the importance of infrastructure in this country? and i want to say one other thing, willie. tom vilsack's not the only contributor to moving the country forward. his great wife christy is running for congress this year in iowa against steve king and that's an interesting race to watch. tom, what's wrong when it comes to infrastructure? you just said how much agriculture needs it. why can't we get the congress to understand that? >> it's a mystery to me. there's $2.2 trillion worth of economic opportunity and infrastructure. we're in a competitive circumstance. if we improve our systems, water systems, we'll improve our competitiveness and be able to beat any country in the world. but the failure to improve the infrastructure puts us at a disadvantage. by a broad majority, people are saying take action and this action we like, infrastructure is something we understand, brick and mortar and also expansion of broad band. >> before we let you go, mr. secretary, community connect initiative. t >> we've got over 700 projects in which we're trying to reach the president's goal of 90% of the country being connected to broadband. it means small businesses can expand their markets, schools can expand learns opportunities. all the access of this innovation. folks, this is a great time to be in america. it is time for us to sort of take charge of our future. >> amen. >> i think we're all tired of being in the dump. >> amen to that. secretary tom vilsack. thanks so much for being with us this morning. appreciate it. up next, we'll go through some of last night's mlb playoffs, including ed rendell's philadelphia phillies. a season on the brink. >> cardinals got a little help from a squirrel last night. sports ahead. ♪ freight for you, box for me box that keeps you healthy, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ ♪ saving time, cutting stress, when you use ups ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ [ female announcer ] improve the health of your skin with aveeno daily moisturizing lotion. the natural oatmeal formula improves skin's health in one day, with significant improvement in 2 weeks. i found a moisturizer for life. [ female announcer ] only from aveeno. all right. let's do a little sports, check in with the baseball playoffs last night. it was all about the national league with two teams, the d'backs and cardinals both facing elimination. d'backs hosting the brewers. bases loaded, roberts, a line drive grand slam. makes it into the d'backs bullpen. arizona beats the brewers 10-4. now a decisive game five tomorrow in milwaukee. the other national league game, down two games to one against the mighty phillies. in the fifth inning, the players get an unexpected guest, a squirrel darting across home plate as the daredevil squirrel right in front of the batter. a split second after the pitch crosses the plate. he didn't like it. thought they should have called time for that. they called a no pitch. one inning later, the cardinals blast a two-run home run. cardinals take a 5-2 lead in the eighth. phillies with a chance to even it up, man on second, ryan howard, the tieing run at the plate, but waves at a nasty breaking ball. cardinals win 5-3, that series goes back to philadelphia tomorrow night for game five. governor rendell, the carpenters have hardaway, how do you feel? >> a little nervous. the whole city's nervous. this season, even in this record-breaking season have had trouble scoring runs. there were 12 games, willie, in a row, where we didn't top three runs but won nine of them because of our pitching. it's going to be win or go home. but who would you rather have on the mound than roy halladay? >> you have to like your chances. and if they lose, at least you have the eagles, right? oh, wait. they're terrible, as well. >> it's a long season, willie. that squirrel, by the way, was a risk taker. >> there you go. >> he was there the night before too. >> he was. he was. now, we have this clip. we talked about the squirrel, animals and baseball. donny and pat were viewing a clip on youtube earlier. this was from 2001. randy johnson just vaporizing a bird during spring training. look at that. >> nothing funny. >> the odd thing about it, that was a change-up. >> up next, tom brokaw, also the last-minute change to the cover of "time" magazine. governor rendell, thank you so much. we'll talk to you soon. we are the house when it comes to the big game. yeah. it's his thing. i don't even participate. boom! here it comes! bring it back and bring it home! bring it home! it's a very domesticated neighborhood. yeah, yeah. but...wild! not on our football party! i don't like to brag about our tv, but it is pretty awesome. go, go, go, go! touchdown! [ male announcer ] some parties need a bowl of queso. made from creamy velveeta and zesty rotel tomatoes and green chilies. it makes any get-together better. your time is limited. so don't waste it living someone else's life. don't be trapped by dogma, which is living with the results of other people's thinking. don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. and most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. know what you truly want to become. everything else is secondary. >> wow. steve jobs back in 2005. joining us now, "time" magazine managing editor rick stengel, and also with us tom brokaw. >> and you know, mika, they last night at "time" magazine literally stopped the press. >> yep, so the cover of "time" will be timely, but what did it take to make it happen, rick? >> there was a big huge switch and i pulled it like this and stopped the presses. no, i don't -- i never in my life have been able to say stop the presses and we did do that last night. and of course, it all happens all technologically. we started printing a different issue and we heard that steve, of course, had died. we had this cover image already prepared. and walter isaacson a former editor of "time" writing the definitive biography of steve jobs, i called walter and he said, you want something? and i said, yes. and an hour later, you know, 2,000 words kind of summing up steve's career, and yes, it's a beautiful issue now. it's all steve jobs. >> what was walter isaacson's take on steve jobs? >> he talked about how jobs' personality is seen in all of his products, that he was a perfectionist. he believed in design even before performance. and the design led what he wanted to do. and he also thought -- he thought about consumers and everything he did for consumers, but he didn't really care about what consumers actually thought. he thought i'm going to give you something that's just fantastic. and he also pointed out too that jobs himself was not an inventor, per se, he was a reinventor. he looked at what other people had done and improved it. it was very interesting and quite moving piece because he also talks about having visited steve a few days ago, basically on his death bed and what that was like. >> you have seen -- tom, really quickly, you have seen history, you have lived history, you've reported on history. put into perspective for all of us the life and the work of steve jobs. >> well, i think both steve jobs the individual and then the world that he took and made his own and made our lives so dramatically different around the world. we have gotten so accustomed to it that i think we do need to stand back on occasions like this and have a keener appreciation of just what we are living through. this is a transformational time in every sense of the word, and we are not through it yet. we are as i've been using the phrase, creating the second big bang, creating a whole other universe. and just when we think we've reached the outer limits, there's something else like social networking that changes it again profoundly. and steve jobs, i used the phrase earlier today was a spiritual leader of all of that. like the dalai lama of personal computers. and made them user friendly and understandable. we got the first mac in '84. and it was the first affordable one and our kids were in junior high and grade school and we put it in an office in our building and apartment. within 24 hours, kids were running up and down the back staircase to use it. and i found one kid there at 2:00 in the morning, he was on the mac. and i thought, oh, my gosh, we have entered an entirely new era. the great phrase about this technology is when children are teaching their parents how to drive. but steve was the driving instructor for so many quite honestly in all of that. >> it's truly amazing. and rick stengel, i can't wait to read the issue. what i find fascinating, especially in a world full of, you know, major corporations and there's the concept of corporate structure and corporate behavior. and it seems like from what i'm reading now in retrospect, in terms of his management style, he broke all the rules. what did it take? and what was it about his management style that led to su such excellence? >> he created an extraordinary thing and not only in apple, but in pixar and disney. walter writes about steve's management style which can be trying. he uses the phrase you're either a genius or a word i will not say on television. he was passionate about what he believed in. he structured the company around himself and his own perfectionism. and i think he lost a lot of people because he had a vision that everybody had to accept. and it was this vision of purity. as he said himself, i love simplicity. and he kept on making things simpler and simpler and cleaner and cleaner and purer and purer. and you had to sign sign on to that. even the building and the interiors reflect everything that he did. i remember he came to our offices to show us the ipad a couple weeks before it was out. and i just had mentioned in passing, i'd been to the new apple store on the upper midwest near where i live. he went in -- said the marble from that store is from perugia and it's from the northwest corner of the quarry because it's a little bit lighter and stronger and i went there and felt it myself. the level of detail is just extraordinary. and that's on the marble for the store. he spent that amount of detail on the battery for the ipad. >> great lesson for business leaders. we've talked a lot about how revolutionary he didn't use research, he used his gut. and why that makes sense, if you were going to do research today for consumers to tell you what the next phone should look like, they'll play back what's out there already. you can't ask consumers to be visionaries. and that's what business leaders do. and at the end of the day if you ever want something new, you can't research it. >> and he saw himself -- for better for worse, and mostly for better. he saw himself as an artist more than a businessman, more than a creator. he was not an engineer, he never studied engineering, he was want a computer scientist. he was a guy in some cases had this extraordinary esthetic that then created all of these products. >> what's so striking to me about that generation of people who invented this technology and refined it, steve jobs of the world, bill gates of the world, is that they are exceptionally good businessmen for the most part. they ran the largest companies in the world. gates and steve jobs were bitter rivals at one point. and, in fact, gates never thought that apple would survive. he said, no, it's going to go away. and then he came along and propped it up. and he said today which is very the touching i thought. he's in southeast asia. and he said it was an insanely great honor to know and work with steve jobs. that's a great tribute from someone like bill gates to steve jobs. >> you'll not remember this. i was a young advertising pup, and i was lucky enough to sit next to you on a plane. >> what are you now? >> i don't know what i am. i was looking up and i said to you, who would be most -- who have you been most impressed with in all the people you interviewed? and you said gorbachev and gates. and the reason you said gates, forget about technology. if he was in the hot dog business, he would've cornered the hot dog market. >> the other thing, the category now, the category that jobs is in now is ford and edison. >> absolutely. >> this is the classic american thing. the old world, there was pure science. science in america was about creating products for people that you could sell. and steve is in that great tradition. just like edison, just like ford. >> and bell. >> and bell. >> joe, you mentioned jack, your 3-year-old son, i have a 4-year-old daughter. and we talked about this a little bit last week, but it dawned on me again this morningr know a world not touched by steve jobs. the reality that he created is what our children will live. i told this story on the air last week. my son who was 2 and completely proficient in the ipad. now gets into the taxi. when that tv comes on, he touches the screen. he's frustrated. why am i not controlling the information. that's the only reality he'll know. >> my 8-year-old daughter, it's interesting how it's not about technology. all she wants is an iphone, of course she's not getting one. to her, that means you've arrived. she's not getting one for six years. >> there should be one grown up in your family. >> you know, his ultimate gift, you mentioned ford, edison, bell, generational products. steve jobs, 5-year-olds using it, 85-year-olds using it. >> it transcends the lines. >> i want to go back to your 4-year-old and 2-year-old swiping the screen inside the cab. one of my great frustrations and one of the things i groused about as far as american technology was the fact that companies would try to do more. they would always try to promise more than the products they delivered. to be blunt about it, the blackberry tries to jam too much on blackberrys now. the blackberry was a fantastic device. >> when it was just a blackberry. >> it would do e-mails, texts and calls. >> it's now on a delay. >> the same thing with the pc. they tried to jam too many applications on that they didn't work together. the genius of steve jobs, i think it does. it goes back to -- he's an arti artist. it goes back to the design where you have these devices that 55-year-olds can't work if it's a pc, and then steve jobs comes along and creates something that a 2 and 3-year-old can use when you're not even looking, when you're not even noticing. willie, i guarantee you never sat down and said here's my ipad. here's how it works. one day you're wondering why is the apple on. and it is a kid who can't even walk yet that's figured out this intuitive device. it's stunning. >> i said earlier, barnicle and i were of the juke box generation. this is my juke box. thanks to steve jobs. i got that around. plug it in. run with it. >> amazing. >> that alone, we pay tribute. >> joe is on to something that is a huge difference between bill gates and steve jobs. he created a completely internal device. you can't plug anything into it. even their operating system, he would never allow it to be on any other computers. that's why it became very small. >> rick stengel stopping the issue of "time" magazine. a special on the life and legacy of steve jobs. coming up next, vern buchanan, robert webbingsler will be live with joe and mika down in pensacola. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ a refrigerator has never been hacked. an online virus has never attacked a corkboard. ♪ give your customers the added feeling of security a printed statement or receipt provides... ...with mail. it's good for your business. ♪ and even better for your customers. ♪ for safe and secure ways to stay connected, visit usps.com/mail yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. >> tomorrow morning we will be live from tuscaloosa, where we'll be joined by rick saban and james franklin for the rising commodores. we'll talk to hall-of-famer joe namath from tuscaloosa ahead of the showdown, alabama and the tide. more "morning joe" in just a minute. ♪ sent her back to college for her sophomore year ♪ ♪ co-signed her credit card -- "buy books, not beer!" ♪ but the second that she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for her whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪ ♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪ ♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. 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[ male announcer ] new bengay cold therapy. the same technology used by physical therapists. go to bengay.com for a $3 coupon. try smart balance buttery spread. it's heart-healthier than butter. with omega-3s. 64% less saturated fat. and clinically proven to help support healthy cholesterol. ♪ put a little love in your heart ♪ >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." you're looking live at the fish house in pensacola, florida. i can't believe the sunrise. it's beautiful. >> absolutely beautiful here. >> beautiful boats. we're fielding e-mails from up and down the east coast. we have to set the record straight. >> we will in a second. >> it's about my alma mater. >> it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. 7:00 a.m. in pensacola, florida. beautiful, beautiful place. it's remarkable how much this community's turned around since a year ago when we had the bp oil spill. >> absolutely. >> one of the reasons why we're back. tourism is back. there are a lot of family businesses we talked about a year ago that went away. bp is -- the governor believes the bp is actually starting to be a good partner in reviving this area of the state. we shall see. >> we're talking to business leaders to give us a sense of what's going on. we'll be honoring pensacola state college, great institution. >> pace center for girls. >> then we go to tuscaloosa tomorrow. >> roll tide, baby. speaking of wealth, an absolute wow. >> this is going to be something. >> let's bring in willie geist. he's a vanderbilt comal alum. we have had all male teams, no co-ed football teams. >> laugh it up, scarborough. >> we got nick saban on. you got to do me a favor, please, please, for the love of god, don't let nick saban know i love him except when he loses, then i trash him for the next five years. i'm scared for good reason. we have mike barnicle, tom brokaw and pat buchanan. i have to comment on a couple things. i think one of the most insightful lines come from tom brokaw turning to donny deutsch saying there must be at least o one grownup in your house. >> it needs a grownup interior decorator as well. >> it's like andy warhol threw up. >> threw up and decomposed. i've never seen modern art like that. >> the upstairs -- >> we don't want to go there. >> i blocked it out. >> mothers, keep your children away from the upper west side. keep your children away from the upper west side. >> i've had to fume gait. >> we have to bring this up quickly. then we'll launch into it. we had bill bennett on yesterday. but bill bennett was complaining about williams' college. they didn't respect him. they had to screen his speech. we got an e-mail from the president of williams college. they gave bill bennett an honorary degree. invited him back. basically put a crown on his head. >> they love him. >> it seems, pat buchanan, that bill bennett is harboring a chip on his shoulder. we will take him up to williamstown ourselves. >> good enough. he graduated from the same high school i did, bill bennett. >> wow! >> i notice he's not contributing as much here. he's doing very well. >> is that the high school that douds brothers graduated as well. >> i'm not sure. >> you were making fun, offhanded, making fun of willie's alma mater. i'm going to take the 29 points. what can we bet? i think they're covered. >> i'll make the bet, but i will tell you this. i sure don't want any of your artwork if i win. we'll figure something zblels we want money. >> joe, joe, is this part of your conservative nature, attacking the arts like this? there are some great artists there. you don't understand it. is this a political kind of platform you're launching? >> i never knew that painted over hustler covers are art. >> i will not act like white trash. >> your elevator pencele five times, i will not act like white trash. we're not talking picasso here. >> the artwork in the bedroom. >> mika, how do you know what the artwork in my bedroom looks like? >> we officially crossed the line to self-indull subsequent. let's go to news. mika, what are we looking at in news. >> let's move on. senate democrats led by majority leader harry reid are seeking a millionaire tax to fund the president's job bill. this is a break with the white house whose proposal includes a tax hike for families earning more than $250,000. it would raise $445 billion over ten years by imposing a 5% surtax on million dollar earners. it will apply to wealth accrued above that level, including capital gains and inheritances. this makes a lot of sense. >> isn't this a smart political move even if it has no chance to pass through. >> it's smarter than raising taxes on folks making $250,000 a year. as senator schumer said today, that is a mistake. a lot of those folks having a hard time. joe, you're right, it's not going anywhere right now. the republican house isn't going to vote for any taxes. >> mike, if i'm a democrat on the campaign trail, i would love nothing more. chuck schumer has this right from the very beginning. he got it right back in december when the white house ignored him when he said let's not raise taxes on small businesses and people making $250,000, but let's have a millionaire's tax and drive it until the republican party is forced to reject it or sign on. i mean, to be able to campaign against a millionaire's tax, politically, seems like a smart plan. >> not only a smart plan, but it begs the question, why didn't the president of the united states grab hold of this a year and a half or two years ago. >> thank you. i don't get it. >> and plant the flag and stick with that. they're looking for a message that resonates every day. they've had it in their back pocket and not utilized it. >> right after the election and they got shellacked, a lot of people said take it to a million dollars. we even talked about it on the air. it was a gimme at that point. they frittered away opportunities. they're kind of reinventing themselves every week. this week, we're going to the million dollar level. >> joe, back when the iraq war started, i wasn't an enthusist of it, i was against it. i put out an idea we ought to have a 5 or 10% surtax on everybody to pay for everything until the war is over. "wall street journal" comes down on you with both feet. you're supposed to pay for those things once you go into them. it would have worked then, i think. >> tom brokaw and pat buchanan, as to why they didn't get to this a year and a half ago, is it a gimmick now because we're in election season, is it a gimmick to put it out there even though it doesn't have potential? to me, it means as if they don't mean it. >> if it's a 5%, that takes a 35% rate, 1.5 to 36.5. >> i do think it's a gimmick. it's not going to solve the problem. it is a straight political proposal here. this isn't going to raise an awful lot of money when you're talking about the kind of deficits we got at $1.4 trillion. >> pat, it seems to me, at some point, tom, we got a slight delay here, at some point, tom brokaw, republicans, conservatives, free market guys like myself, are going to have to come to terms with the fact that over the past 25 years, the wealthy have become exponentially more wealthy and the poor have become exponentially more poor. the divide between rich and poor has nothing to do with free markets. it has to do with tax policies and business policies that have tilled to the deck of the very, very rich. i don't say this as a pop lift, i'm not a pop lift, i see this as alan greenspan. this presents a mumtle threat to american capitalism if we don't right this wrong. >> as you were saying that, i was making a tea party member preparing an op-ed piece refuting what you had to say. the fact is, you're absolutely right, joe. just below the surface in that group you just described, almost everyone that i talked to knows that they're going to have to get additional revenue. they're going to have to be part of that process. most of them say we would like to get it packaged with tax reform to change the code so we can make that more sensible for everyone as well. i've yet to find people outside the var narrow confines of the hard left or hard right who had the good fortune to make more money here. >> it would be a privilege to pay more taxes. pat, explain to me as a republican, what is the argument against that? don't tell me class warfare, what politically and economically is the argument against taxing millionaires? >> take it from 35% to 45%. >> that's not where it's going though. >> no, i'm giving you the argument. you take the state taxes in new york and medicare. then you get 60% tax. it makes more sense to me if i'm one of those guys to save the money i've already earned and earn another dollar. >> this would be an additional 1.5% to. a guy making a million bucks, it's $15,000 a year. how is that -- why is he going to spend less in this economy. >> the economic argument against it is this, if a guy like donny deutsch is making a million bucks a year, who can more spend and wisely invest that money, donny deutsch or harry reid. >> why am i going to stop spending if i have $15,000 less. it holds no water. >> guys like ted turner and tom brokaw and you, republicans will say, if they're making that money, they're going to spend it more wisely than turning it over to nancy pelosi and harry reid. >> i've just got to say, and i want you guys to throw it around, that is though, the big lie. somehow if we raise taxes from 35 to 40%, that the ted turners and the donny deutschs and warren buffetts are going to pay more in taxes. they are not. they're still going to be paying 17% or 18% per year in taxes. it will be the 250,000, the one million people that don't have the fleet of accountants and attorneys that will be hit with the increase. >> it should be benchmarked as spending cuts. any tax increase has to go for the deficit only. you know, the most unsettling moment for a lot of people in washington in the republican debate was that famous raise hand question, ten to one. >> the "wall street journal" has an editorial today, reagan took the top rate from 70% down to 28%. the rich were paying 18% and 70%. they're paying 28% at the lower rate, the 28%. the reason for that is because the guys making money say don't worry about the taxes, let's make money. the higher that thing goes, the more you get the tax accountants and lawyers, save me the money. if you get the lower ratings and get rid of the deductions and exemptions, that's the big reform. 5, 15, 25. >> i would submit that what you're talking about here, in this little mini debate is -- gets to the ultimate disconnect in this country today. we're talking about the gap between the rich and poor. you're talking about percentages on taxes. what people out there know when they go grocery shopping, when they get the tuition bill, let's go to the movies or new sneakers, corporate profits have risen over the last ten years and the middle class has just sat there stagnant, no pay increases. >> why? that ain't because the corporations are rich. >> part of the reason why is what you just alluded to a couple minutes ago. the wars in iraq and afghanistan. if all these phony baloneys in washington, instead of wearing their american flag lapel pins, if they voted to pay for these wars, we wouldn't be in as much of a hole as we are today. >> let me ask you this -- >> you're talking about the deficit right now. the bigger problem is, and the problem that tax reform i think would tackle more effectively is the fact that, if jeffrey sacks was on tomorrow, he put out a shocking statistic, real wages for working men have been declining in the united states of america since 1973. >> exactly. >> mike barnicle, the middle class hasn't remained stagnant. the middle class is losing, is in full scale retreat. that's what has to be tackled here. >> you know why it is. you went into -- 1974 is the exact right year. in the first decade of the 20th century, we lost 6 million manufacturing jobs, one of every three we had. these are the best jobs blue collar working class americans ever had. every time you put down a factory, 4,000 jobs are created, bars, restaurants, theaters. we've exported 55,000 factories in the first decade of the 20th century. who the devil is responsible for that? those are the people killing the middle class. it's both political parties, the republican party, the democratic party. the bush republicans and the obama democrats. >> they took the greatest economy in the world and dropped it into a world pool where you're up against chinese workers making a buck an hour, no regulations, no civil rights laws, no environmental laws, no health and safety laws. why is ge, why is general motors, why are they moving their factories abroad. it's cheaper to produce there. they're all going to be gone. schumer and those guys, maybe tariffs on china, how in the hell do they think the country was built? >> you know what i see? pesants with pitch forks. >> pay attention. >> that is no joke. we are not far from that. we really aren't. >> pat, you should run. i like that. i like that. >> been there, done that. american people have spoken to that. >> i can drive you into new hampshire again. >> two old guys can go fishing on the weekend. >> sounds like a sitcom. >> this is serious. look at what's happened to the country. >> business is not going to self-correct itself. they are accountable to their shareholders. >> put a 30% tax on all manufactured imports, you'll raise $600 million and cut all taxes on small businesses in the united states. boom! >> pat buchanan for president. >> talking like a man with a book coming out pretty soon. >> different kind of book. >> tom brokaw, thanks so much. appreciate you being here. >> we have much more ahead live from pensacola. senator marco rubio says no to a vice president nomination. plus vern buchanan of florida. let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> trying to picture barnicle and pat driving through new hampshire. good morning, everyone. weather-wise it's gorgeous. so many areas around the country. yesterday we dealt with horrible conditions out west. a lot of snow in california. this morning it was cold in new england. the sin un is up. yesterday was good. today is gorgeous. you can't complain when you have perfect sunshine and 60s. travel trouble spot, more rain in california. gusty winds yesterday. l.a. saw rain, first significant rain in months. today's forecast, rain and damp in the mountains. look at minneapolis, 81. fargo should be up in the mid 80s. that's heading east for the weekend, just in time. you're watching "morning joe." what a beautiful shot from pensacola. great weather for you too. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. ♪ >> i believe so i'm not going to be their vice presidential nominee. i'm focused on my job right now. the answer is probably going to be no. the answer is going to be no. i don't want to leave the door open. >> welcome back to "morning joe." live shot of the capitol. with us from capitol hill, a member of the house ways and means committee, vern buchanan. we have former democratic candidate, robert wexler. my mother who is at the fish house is going to be wondering why i let you come on my show. if history is any guide, your family will be wondering why you came on my show. >> that's very true. >> we have david stafford, and good friend of mine, worked with me in congress. david, fascinating straw poll, and we said after the iowa straw poll that straw polls don't matter. i think we've been proven right. let's look at the results of the florida straw poll. cain at 37%. perry at 15% and romney 14%. cain moved ahead of perry and tied for first place in cbs. what do florida republicans see in this guy? >> you know, i think it was a big surprise. i think it shows that the straw polls, as much as people say they don't matter, they do short term. you see the impact of the polls in florida but nationally. the one thing that came out of that is the race is still fairly much in flux. you had governor perry get in the race and got the initial bump. he's sort of come back down to earth. you have had certainly herman cain catch fire in florida. i think it's still unsettled out there, but florida, as you know, will be a big player, not only in the primary -- >> it's even a bigger player in the general election. >> the 2010 census, florida picked up two additional electoral votes. they are tied for the most electoral votes in the country. >> the swing state of florida, florida, florida, that tim russert talked about, important. >> absolutely. >> robert let me go to you. give us your best read about president obama as we move toward the general election, the real question is, how is the president going to do in south florida, in your backyard, in broward county, especially with the jewish voters who actually moved to george bush in 2004 in enough numbers to make a difference in that part of the country? we heard about this disconnect between president obama and jewish voters. is that real? will that have an impact in 2012? >> president obama, i can confidently say, will do exceedingly well with jewish voters in south florida and throughout the country. the last month, joe, saw extraordinary presidential leadership in terms of our staunch relationship, our staunch alliance with israel. the president saved six israeli lives in the embassy in cairo. he stood up against the world of the united nations in opposition of the unilateral palestinian resolution for state hood. we also learned that president obama reversed in effect the position of the bush administration and is delivering bunker busting bombs to israel in order to thwart the nuclear weapon threat from iran. those are three very significant, very direct, staunchly pro-israel measures that jewish voters and voters that appreciate our relationship with israel will think very kindly of. >> robert, you may be right. we've seen numbers in israel start to move the president's direction. at one point the president having a 4% approval rating among israeli voters. now it's up to 50%. i think you're right. that may translate in the long run to areas like south florida. vern buchanan, let me bring you in. i asked rick scott, you're doing all the right things to bring jobs to this state, yet the unemployment rate is 10%. approval ratings in the 30s. why is unemployment rate still so high? and if we're still over 10% come 2012, is it going to be a curse on both republicans and democrats at the polls? >> well, joerks it's great to have you in florida. let me say, because i want to comment, because you've covered steve jobs' life. everybody is looking for the key to success. they're getting our economy going long term competing in the world. i want to add it's all about entrepreneurship. the more we celebrate his life and others like him, he's the job creator, he's going to allow people like that to compete with china and india in the future. the more we can create an environment for small business people and entrepreneurship, that's the key. let me say in terms of jobs, it has been sluggish, but i'm happy. yesterday out of our ways and means committee in florida, happen to be the only member on that, we passed free trade agreements. we have 14 ports in florida. we do $65 billion worth of economic activity out of those ports. i think we can grow that another $10 billion with passing free trade agreements. they'll get voted on next week. even the administration says it will create 250,000 jobs. i'm excited for florida and jobs. especially as it relates to panama and colombia. those are huge in terms of florida's future. >> david stafford, all politics is local. let's talk about the economy here. a year ago, we were up here a good bit talking about the bp spill, trying to educate americans and our viewers on just how gorgeous our beaches are in northwest florida. they are the whitest in the world. they're still the whitest in the world. yet for a long time, people thought that oil had splashed up on the beaches and we weren't open for business. >> i think part of that difficulty was recognizing that it was a significant event and making sure that the proper parties were held responsible, at the same time letting the public know the beaches and all the local industries were open for business. we do welcome visitors here, as you and i agree, the most beautiful beaches in the world. they've seen great tourism numbers across the emerald coast. >> i understand we're actually setting records now, which is exciting. >> i was talking to our friend jim shirley, the head chef here. he does business, and they talk about their numbers. you're hearing that across the gulf coast. that's not by accident. that's through a lot of effort, advertising dollars and a lot of hard work done by the locals down here to try to get the word out about how wonderful things are still down here. we certainly welcome visitors from across the country. it's an easy place to get to. it's affordable, great family vacation spot. >> there was an impact from the spill. >> absolutely. >> on tourism. how much of a comeback has it made. how much more ground do you need to regain in terms of the business owners and their losses. >> the business is sustaining this. people looking at the metrics are saying is this a sugar high? is this because of the money that's put into advertising? but i think it's sustaining. once you get people here for the first time, they will come back. so i think that's still being assessed, but certainly in the short term, you know, things are looking good. again, we still have that lingering impact out there. >> robert wexler, though, of course, florida's economy exploded during the mortgage bubble because you had a lot of people building new homes. you had realtors. we were driven by real estate. for so long. it's still not coming back. how do we turn the corner there? you get a feeling, if housing doesn't turn around in florida, it's all not going to turn around. >> it's a major component. my old friend, congressman buchanan was half right. he's correct that the free trade agreements particularly with central american countries will have an enormously positive impact on florida but what will also have a positive impact is the jobs plan president obama has before the congress. independent economists have said that 1.9 million jobs would be created nationwide if the congress were to enact president obama's plan and that the gdp would go up a full percentage point. that would have a disproportionately better than average impact in florida. yes, we should pass these free trade agreements, important for the country and particularly for florida, it's also important to have a more broad based jobs plan. tom brokaw talked before if there were to be a millionaire's tax, to put it into drawing down the deficit. that's appealing, but the country needs a significant robust jobs program. >> well, vern buchanan, it must be nice to be called half right. better than being called completely wrong, i guess. you get used to it. >> rob and i are good friends. the best thing we can do. i'm bullish on florida long term. it's one of the best places in america to live. by the way, sarasota got rated the best beaches in the country, including hawaii. at the end of the day, we've got to create a better business climate for entrepreneurs, risk takers and people building businesses. we need more diversity. the free trade agreement is a big part of that. i'm very bullish on florida long term. >> excellent. >> you know what, vern, to borrow words from robert wexler, you are half right. >> just half right. >> i too am bullish on florida's future, but anybody can tell you, sarasota doesn't have the number one beaches in the world. pensacola does. vern, with that, we're out of time. >> sorry. we can't hear you. >> thank you so much. robert wexler, my whom is here. she's forgiven me for talking to you. i ask that your family forgive you for being on my show. >> i'll forgive you. >> very good. >> david stafford, thank you for doing that. >> thank you for doing this for pensacola state college. >> we're going to drop by the pace center for girls who do a wonderful job. >> busine"business before the b next. we'll be back in just a moment. ♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe." we get a check on "business before the bell" with simon hobbs. good morning? >> good morning. we have had the weekly jobless figure come out. 401,000. the main story is the passing of steve jobs. it's very rare you get the outpouring of sentiment and people on the stock market. apple has been a roaring success for the investor. if you put $1,000 worth at the beginning it's worth $45,000. what next for the company? the new ceo has had a good reception both internally and externally. he's a good supply chain manager. people question what will happen now that jobs is gone and you have the genius no longer within the company. he did say in his resignation letter that apple's brieltest days are still ahead of it six weeks ago. his greatest legacy might be the company he leaves behind. i find it interesting that we were talking, willie, earlier in the week about the launch of the iphone. given that jobs determined what the product line is for the next 18 months or two years, i find it interesting they would launch a disappointing model now. i wonder if it was his request, because we knew the news flow today might be as it was. so potentially they could pull rabbits out of the hat further long. people say apple stock now is cheap and we're not expecting it to fall at the opening. >> it's cheap if you can afford $378 a share. >> relative to earnings, it is cheap. >> simon hobbs at the new york stock exchange. we'll go back to pensacola with joe and mika. 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[ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com. ♪ >> see these beautiful beaches here in pensacola. it breaks your heart. >> i don't think anyone went into this with nearly the resources that we knew we were going to need. but i'm not too sure anyone anticipated this type of spill. >> you have to be resolute in the situation and resilient. floridians and alabamaens are too. we'll fight back but it's going to be tough. >> welcome back to "morning joe." we are live at the fish house in pensacola, florida. i'll tell you what, that seems like such a long time ago when we were out there with two former governors talking about how the bp oil spill, even though the oil hadn't come on the beaches, was devastating pensacola's economy. much has changed in a year, year and a half. let's bring in the mayor of pensacola. asheton hayward, along with the chairman of the chamber of commerce. callier asheton. let's start with you. i come home an awful lot. this time, i came home, i was shocked. collier took us out to the stadium on the water. i'm seeing business come back to life. i'm seeing a lot of development downtown. equipme kwint studier is building stuff around. >> we're in a renaissance. we have the pensacola associated with the cincinnati reds. ballpark on the water, largest public-private building. our lifestyle is superior. quality of life is superior. >> collier, you were driving us around yesterday, but there's a sense of history here, at preserving it, which is lovely to see. >> i love mika, we took her to the historic district. she's been here before. she said joe and i had it nice today. been here many times, never seen it all. went to the oldest church, behind us 200 feet. we talked about the battle of galvez. they defeated the british and occupied here for 40 years until the territory was transferred to florida -- to the united states for the first time. >> with andrew jackson. >> who was the governor here for a number of years in pensacola. tons of history. >> you know what's so stunning to me is the fact that in the past, we haven't promoted history like we should. we're starting to do it. judy bens has been doing it for years. pensacola is the first european settlement in america. 1559, pensacola was here before shakespeare was born. yet, we haven't gotten that message out before asheton. we're starting to do it now. >> it's important with cultural tourism. we have world class beaches. national sea shores. we have everything to offer for businesses to move here, for people to more here. we towed to tell this story. >> whitest beaches in the world. >> in the world. >> as white as ashton's teeth. >> trick from donny deutsch. >> let me tell you something, ironically, it's easier, less work goes into keeping the beaches white than keeping ashton's teaches that white. >> we've got white beaches. >> we've got quality of life. this is a place to move. not only tourists, people are coming here, anybody wants to get a job, i'll throw them in the car with ashton. >> great quality of life. as the governor said yesterday, boy, i have figured this out since moving up to new york to work. no state income tax. business tax is being cut. you are talking about the best business climate in america, along with the state of texas which also has a great business climate, and people are starting to move jobs here. >> absolutely. you heard rick scott was here last night, love to him in the panhandle as much as we can get him. so much to do here. you got the beaches, the historic district, the naval museum out there, the third largest air and space museum in the world in pensacola. >> so much history ashton. george h.w. bush's airplane. remember him coming here, the plane that got shot down in the pacific, set the naval air museum. there's history here, there's beaches here, great military here. again, it's -- i think we're turning the corner. this is a great place to live and great place to start a business. >> the great thing is the leaders in the community are stepping up. collier, and a dear friend of mine, jerry pait, we've been traveling the country. >> jerry pait, the great golfer. >> he's going to be in tuscaloosa tomorrow, along with nick saban. >> we're very excited about that. >> he's excited but he's been an ambassador for pensacola. we traveled the country together telling people about pensacola. you're doing a heck of a job. we appreciate it. >> it's a lot of people getting involved. volunteers getting people here. you're going to be on stage next week at the music festival. >> we can't wait for that. it's going to be big. we have 80 bands coming to the beach next weekend. >> john heilemann wants to come down, because he's big fans of stars, a lot of great. bands coming in. mike barnicle, we're going to get mike barnicle down here as well, mike barnicle is a baseball aficionado. mike, it really is extraordinary. it's beautiful. it's going to be cincinnati's aa team. it opens up to the water. extraordinary, sailboats going out there. we really want to get you down here when the team comes in next year. >> i'll tell you what's amazing. i bet that ballpark will continue to do for pensacola what the ballpark, what the aa ballpark did for portland, maine when the burkes built the ballpark up there for the sea dogs. i bet it does the same thing for pensacola. you couldn't be in a better place because it's so reminiscent of nantucket as we look at these pictures. >> he's exactly right. >> it really is. >> no doubt about it. can i get a -- i want to get a shot of donny deutsch smiling and i want to get a shot of the mayor of pensacola smiling. >> donny had to go. >> he got jealous. >> we'll focus on ashton's teeth. >> look at him. >> donny deutsch on eighth avenue, looking good. >> we don't want to hear your stories from new york, baby. thank you so much for being with us. ashton, doing a great job. collier, doing a great job as well. >> thank you all for being here. >> all right. more "morning joe" straight ahead. stick around. we're centurylink ... a new kind of broadband company committed to improving lives with honest, personal service, 5-year price lock guarantees and consistently fast speeds. new splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweetener with b vitamins, the first and only one to help support a healthy metabolism. three smart new ways to sweeten. same great taste. new splenda® essentials™. the new way to add the safety of onstar to your car. [ computer ] onstar. we're looking for city hall. i'm sending directions to your car. turn right on hill street. go north for 2 miles. ♪ this is onstar. i got a signal there's been a crash. do you need help? yes, please. i've got your gps location. i'm sending help. ♪ [ female announcer ] for a limited time, get an onstar fmv mirror for only $199 after $100 off. ♪ all right i have copd. if you have it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms... by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. and it's steroid-free. spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor right away if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. breathing with copd is no small thing. ask your doctor about spiriva. >> quick check of the baseball playoffs. tony la russa and the cardinals trying to fight off elimination. down two games to one against the phillies, the best team in baseball. the players got a surprise guest. watch the squirrel dart in from the left. who is ruled no pitch. they were distracted and so were the fans when the squishl jumped up and sat among them. the squirrel goes right in front of the batter, a split second before the pitch crosses the plate. maybe good luck for the cardinals. one inning later, david freeze hits a two run home run. cardinals gets a 5-2 lead there. man on second. ryan howard, tieing run at the plate, but he goes down swinging. cardinals win 5-3. they head back to philadelphia for a decisive game five on friday. chris carpenter and the great roy halladay going. the d-backs beat the brewers at home. 10-4 was the score there. those two teams play tomorrow in milwaukee. winner moves on to the nlcs. up next, what if anything did we learn today? the postal service is critical to our economy-- delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the peace of mind of owning a 2011 iihs top safety pick. the all-new volkswagen passat. a 201confidence, withy pick. depend in color. now available in gray. looks and fits like underwear. same great protection. depend. good morning. great day. ♪ >> mike barnicle, what did you learn today? >> i learned pensacola is quite beautiful from the pictures. >> beautiful place. >> pat, what did you learn? >> willie geist needs more than 20 points to bet on his own team. >> the world will be

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