Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20110627

insulting to say something like that because i'm a serious person. >> but you understand when i say that, that's what the rap on you is. >> i am 55 years old, been married 33 years, i'm a lawyer with a post doctorate degree from william and mary. i work in the united states federal tax court. >> but do you recognize now that you are in the spotlight that now you have to be careful to not say things that are flakey things. >> of course a person has to be careful with what they say. now, there will be an opportune toy speak fully on the issues. i look forward to that. >> all right, it's 6: on the east coast. before i get to who is with us. i have to ask rob gifford a question. did you just choose that e-mail? >> yeah, i did. >> seriously? >> what's wrong with you. >> it's like whiskey and car keys to a teenage boy. >> it's the weekend and about to start the week and i'm about to throw up. >> to make matters worse, our panel, let us begin with the executive editor at random house. we have him here today. he's a former pulitzer prize winner, john meacham. >> you can't be former. >> you either have it or you don't. >> this isn't a marine thing, once a marine, always a marine. pulitzer prize winners have to prove themselves. >> also with us, visiting professor, harold ford jr. and current new york times business columnist, andrew. >> and in boston. >> he didn't fight expedition charges, either. >> no, he decided to go back. mike barnicle. >> i willingly returned. >> yes, you did, yes you did. >> to face justice. >> the red sox need to return. andrew, we have a lot to talk about. michele bachmann, of course. i want to ask if you would ever ask somebody that. >> was that an amazing interview, especially for the fact it was on fox? >> i think it's what chris wallace claims he does. >> i think somebody looked like a flake in that interview, but it didn't look like michele bachmann. >> you thought he looked like a flake? >> i thought it was a silly question? >> are you a flake? seriously? >> what do you think he was getting at? >> i know what he was getting at. >> what was he getting at? >> the fact some people think she's a flake. >> okay. >> so you think it's proper? >> you all think it's a fair question. >> it was a hard question. how do you answer that question appropriately? >> there is a way to answer it, i think it's a flakey question, i'm not going to answer it. >> post doctorate of federal law. >> a lot of people suggest that. let me tell you why. when you and i face tough questions, i got the most silliest, insane questions when i considered running for senate. i thought 98% of the questions were silly. she couldn't use that moment to dispel the flake myth. i give her a c plus or b minus on her answer. the fact it came from fox. >> he said he apologized for the question. >> i don't know. >> chris wallace -- >> i think it is easier to ask that question, i'm a conservative. >> i messed up, i did not mean to disrespect chris wallace. >> look how republican candidates have been treated and now republican presidents. there's always an assumption. john meacham, back me up here baby. dwight eisenhower, he was a dumb old man that went around the golf course. i grew up hearing that myth. ike was a fool playing golf. it was a knock on ike and gerald ford, a bumble idiot. this is what -- this is what the media does. this is what people do to republicans. >> i think there's an inherent bias toward thinking the liberal is the more intelligent, sophisticated figure. and i think that's proven out through the years. the question about chris wallace, is should he have said, the way it would have been okay would have been saying how are you going to deal with the issue that some people refer to you as a flake. it becomes a meta question. i salute him for going in. >> we are hearing he's apologizing for the question. it's the opposite of what we were talking ability. >> mike barnicle -- >> are you a flake? >> well, you know what i found interesting watching the clip on michele bachmann is the impact, clearly, that ed rollins and other professional people have had on her, she didn't bite, she didn't snap at the question. she looked fairly reasonable to me, to this eye and it raises the question in my mind to which other candidate, to whom is she going to be the bigger nightmare, mitt romney or sarah palin? >> there it is. >> if you look at the latest des moines poll, she is a serious problem for all. she has -- this race, over the past week has turned into a race against mitt romney and michele bachmann. a lot of surprise there. >> i was glad the question -- i didn't know she was a lawyer and i follow things closely. she had the opportunity to lay all that out. remember, there's still people in the press who question whether or not the president of the united states was an american citizen. >> who is that? >> up until six or eight weeks ago -- >> who in the press? >> the other networks where the question came up and people came on who promoted that idea and train of thought. bill clinton was accused of committing a murder. they accused him of committing a murder. >> who in the mainstream press? >> there were other networks. when you run for president, the questions are fair. i thought she answered the question. i thought her poise and disposition gave her a high grade. >> mika, michele bachmann is a top-tier candidate out of nowhere. >> she's going to be speaking in her birthplace of water lou, iowa when she kicks off her campaign for the presidential nomination today. she addressed her previous controversial comments when she had a calling for god to run for office. she told cps that god gives her a sense of what direction she should go. >> i am a christian, as is my husband. i became a christian when i turned 16 years old. since that time, i have been a person of prayer. when i pray, i pray believing that god will speak to me and give me an answer to that prayer. that's what a calling is. >> jon, you wrote a book, not a pulitzer prize winner. >> he is the "morning joe" theologian. >> you talked about how faith played a role. it's shocking by some by 2011 standards. it wouldn't be so shocking to john f. kennedy that would horrify many on the left regarding god and his role in america. >> what is different about that is you would not have heard -- the first person talking about giving his heart to jesus is carter in 1976. it's the year the language of the people in the united states -- >> born again. >> born again. when george herbert walker bush heard about born again, he thought mulligan. there's a cultural divide here. i spend a lot of time on that. but, at this point, i think that's -- i think george w. bush, post jimmy carter, it's been a bipartisan world view. i think it surprises people. i don't know where they have been the last 40 years. >> you had mike barnicle and nancy blow si saying she was born with a bible in her hands. both sides do it. both sides try it. democrats trying to play catch up with the republicans. that plays well in western iowa, not so well in southern new hampshire. >> yeah. you know, joe, i have always been out of the school of thought to give religion a good leaving alone. whatever candidate, whatever religion they practice is their own business. if i were ever running for office, that would be it. i'm a roman catholic. i have a faith in god. it's my faith. i practice it every day of my life, hopefully. some days i miss, some days i don't. that's it, leave it alone. >> but you don't leave it alone in republican primaries. i go back to western iowa. it's a critical component. george w. bush saying jesus christ was his favorite philosopher. >> i have heard it talked in politics before. it's geographical for parties. up northeast, it's a different kind of republican party. if you are michele bachmann, she's thinking iowa i do well. new hampshire play solid, i go to south carolina and try to compete heavily. who wins from this? is it romney who is helped? tim pawlenty is hurt by it. jute gingrich is out of it. romney's strategy is to get one-on-one with it. he has an opportunity to show he's the most serious, grounded candidate in the race. >> one thing that makes it different is the question of the mormon faith of governor romney and potentially governor huntsman. >> you think it has to do with michele bachmann being expressive? >> i think she would have said it anyway. there remain a significant number of people in the evangelical world and others that do not believe in ongoing revelation. in up state new york an angel came down and gave a new revelation about jesus to joseph smith, which is the founding myth of the mormon church. >> foundation. >> you said myth. >> watch your words at 6:13. >> let me be clear, the founding myth of the christian experience is the passion. >> are you trashing southern baptist? >> all right. one other headline to get to. >> why don't you go to work at yale? come on, man. a compromise could be at works with the debt limit. "the washington post" says republicans could seek cuts in military spending to reach a deal. president obama is scheduled to meet with harry reid and mitch mcconnell at the white house today. it comes after talks with vice president biden's talks collapsed when eric cantor walked out in a dispute over tax hikes. the stand off on taxes is unlikely to change. >> i think we have gotten to the point we ought to put aside the talking points and talk about what can pass. the business of raising taxes is something this congress is not likely to do. the last congress wasn't willing to do it. we need to talk about what can pass. >> nancy pelosi is pushing back saying it deals with special interests and not tax hikes. take a listen. >> leader cantor can't handle the truth when it comes to the tax subsidies for big oil, corporations sending jobs overseas, tax breaks to the wealthiest people in our country while asking seniors to pay more for less to be on -- as they abolish medicare. >> meanwhile, chris christie crystallizes everything on "meet the press." take a listen. >> the president has to get involved personally. what i found in new jersey is there is no substitute for the three leaders in the room looking at each other to hash it out. everybody has to put skin in the game. there has to be a way to find compromise. it's going to be up to the president, the speaker and senator reid. they need to get in the room and finish it off. >> you are shaking your head. >> it's disappointing. we talk about having an adult conversation at the table. we are not having that conversation because taxes have been taken off the table. here we are, we are back to cuts, how we cut and which things they are going to cut. >> "the washington post" talked about how republicans are putting a big defense cut on the table. i want to talk tax cuts. >> that's a positive. the question is, it's always a two-way street and we still haven't got there. >> hold on, let me explain why i think both sides are on the same side of the street. because mitch mccon el said something revealing there. i think as we say that about mitch, he said something very revealing, they weren't able to pass tax increases in congress when nancy pelosi was speaker. this unearths a truth in the budget negotiations. barack obama does not want to raise taxes right now. a year out from election, nancy pelosi does not want to raise taxes right now. anymore, hold on because i want people to listen to this. this is the truth and you are not hearing it. they don't want to raise taxes right now more than mitch mcconnell or john boehner or paul ryan. there are political reasons why. nancy pelosi wants to be the speaker. she knows raising taxes won't do it. >> that's the problem. there's the politics and the arrhythmia tick. the arrhythmia tick says we are not getting to the right place. we are on the -- the math doesn't add up. >> right. >> you are going to have to reduce costs and you have to raise revenue. the idea that we are not willing to raise revenue, i don't understand it. >> mike barnicle, here is my point. we hear that republicans don't want to raise taxes and you have democrats playing to their base saying we need to raise taxes. but if you talk to them, they don't want to raise taxes for two reasons. one, there are some people in the obama administration that believe it would be a drag on the economy over the next year and two, they think it would hurt them politically. they had control of congress. not only did they not raise taxes, they extended the bush tax cuts. >> that begs another question, an important one. who is the biggest hurdle to the president of the united states in these discussions about tax cuts and reducing spending? is it mitch mcconnell or nancy pelosi? >> harold ford, is it the administration itself? >> i thought the most revealing thing was it's time to stop talking and leaders get in the room. one hypercritical thing, they called the health care passage bill the biggest expense. obama, reid and mcconnell and boehner have to get in a room. >> you talk about working toward re-election in washington. that's exactly why we have a story of three governors and three states getting stuff done. we may not agree with what they are doing, but they are getting it done. we have a big show ahead, new jersey governor chris christie is on set, senator joe man chin and steve rattner. a look at politico's top stories of the morning. first, bill karins. texas hot and wet in the northern plains. a beautiful day yesterday. a gorgeous day today from boston southward. new york city temperatures in the 80s. ohio valley is not nice, south of chicago, st. louis. numerous lines of thunderstorms are going to roll through today. 117 in childress, texas. no cooler today. you are watching "morning joe" on this beautiful monday. you name it. i've tried it. but nothing's helped me beat my back pain. then i tried this. it's salonpas. this is the relief i've been looking for. salonpas has 2 powerful pain fighting ingredients that work for up to 12 hours. and my pharmacist told me it's the only otc pain patch approved for sale using the same rigorous clinical testing that's required for prescription pain medications. proven. powerful. safe. salonpas. check this out, a european aircraft company is building a high-speed jet to go from in an hour. how about one to go from the runway in an hour. that's something i want to see. 10% of toddlers are overweight. that explains the most popular stroller on the market, a wheelbarrow. >> that's terrible. 24 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. we start with the financial times. for most of this month, hugo chavez has been in a hospital bed in cuba. he underwent a pelvic abscess. the venezuela opposition is outraged he's continuing to pass laws saying you can't govern a country through twitter. usa today, iowa and new hampshire abut florida would be the gop prize. it's also where a tea party favorite could prevail. >> wall street journal says some are calling new york city's ban on smoking at parks and beaches a joke. they have issued 700 warnings and one ticket. that went to a newspaper photographer taunting officials to issue a fine. >> "the new york times," random house and political will produce books to have the 2012 presidential election in realtime. it will be written by allen and tha thomas. this is where it goes up in smoke. it will be edited by the man at this table. >> by former pulitzer prize winner, jon meacham. >> half a penny in the land of the blind, those with glaucoma are king. >> be nice. it's going to be cool. >> teddy white goes digital. >> let's go to politico. joining us, pat trick gavin with the politico playbook. pat trick. >> good morning. >> i have another cat. >> besides emma? >> yeah. >> it's her second. >> you are at two, right? >> yeah. >> you can add well. >> three is company. pretty soon, you'll be in my territory. >> it's all wrong, it should not have happened. >> shelter cat, i hope? >> no, we found it. politico is reporting republican candidates are not looking for support from capitol hill. what is the latest from that? >> here is an interesting stat. this time in 2008, mitt romney had 29 people in congress that jumped on board to support his campaign. this is a ritual every presidential cycle. this time, he only has eight. it's not a sign he doesn't have the same kind of support. all candidates are woeing the lawmakers less and less. there's a couple reasons, one as mitch mcconnell puts it, getting support is just a kiss of death. two, there isn't an inside the beltway candidate. there's not a beloved guy like a barber or daniels who the insiders like. three, there isn't the enthusiasm for current candidates. for all these reasons, they are not woeing the lawmakers. it can hurt. some of the lawmakers when they sign on can be an extension of fund raising and going on the television circuit. it helps to have them. we are talking 2012, republican politics, but nancy pelosi on the front of washington post. she really believes democrats can win the house back. >> i think the success in up state new york, the continued focus on cutting programs has her excited. at the end of the day, the economy and jobs will be the issue. the more democrats are in front offering new ideas, i think americans are going to reward leadership. i'm not sure that leader pelosi is the face of this, if it's a great thing for the party. i think it's something for the democrats to get credit for. it didn't work a year and a half ago. >> who is your favorite? what face do you want? >> barack obama. i keep him in front and put the younger, newer faces in front. >> okay. patrick gav vin, see you soon. the red sox like to break a four-game skid. as if getting kicked out of their own stadium for a u-2 concert wasn't enough, full highlights coming up. we'll be right back. >> announcer: this past year alone there's been a 67% spike in companies embracing the cloud-- big clouds, small ones, public, private, even hybrid. your data and apps must move easily and securely to reach many clouds, not just one. that's why the network that connects, protects, and lets your data move fearlessly through the clouds means more than ever. ♪ [ male announcer ] achievement: has big plans. ♪ achievement: plays well with others. ♪ achievement: loves getting its hands dirty. ♪ achievement: is ready for the world. that's why pnc created grow up great®, our 10-year, 100-million-dollar program committed to early education and helping achievement start young. pnc bank. for the achiever in you(sm). ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ look at that car, well, it goes fast ♪ ♪ givin' my dad a heart attack ♪ [ friend ] that is so awesome. ♪ i love my car [ engine revving ] [ male announcer ] that first chevy, yea, it gets under your skin. ♪ oh, we call it 33 past the hour. mike barnicle is going to take us through sports from boston, starting with the red sox. mike. >> we go to the steele city to snap a four-game losing streak against the pirates in pittsburgh. top of the fifth. take a peek at this. a high fastball from james mcdonnell. next inning, andrew miller on the mound for the red sox. fryer. the umpire warns both benches. anymore and you are going to get thrown out of the game. tagged from third base. bowls over catcher, eric fryer. red sex win, 4-2. popped the left shoulder out. in los angeles, good game between the dodgers and the angels. the dodgers are trailing by two in the bottom of the ninth. aaron miles pinch hitting. gordon tagged from third. umpire calls him safe. oh! oh! dodgers are down by one. single to right. mobbed by teammates at second base. the dodgers shock the angels, 3-2. the marlins and the mariners. it was supposed to be a home series in south florida. they were forced to relocate because of a u-2 concert. well, we go to seattle where the marlins are still the home team. a hit with a fantastic running catch. more great defense. diving stop at second. the game is tied at one in the tenth. >> what's going on, man? >> potentially walk. he throws a wild pitch. come on, you are a major leaguer. the replay shows they might have had them at home, but the pitcher can't hang on to the ball. your major league pitcher. cut it out. >> unbelievable. all right. hey, mike, stick around. i'm sure you heard the news this weekend, long time cnn sports anchor nick charles died saturday at the age of 64 after a two-year battle with cancer. he grew up in seattle. he worked with fret hickman for almost 20 years on the remarkable show "sports tonight." he became such a popular tv personality, they put out a trading card on him. he died peacefully in his home this weekend. with us on the phone is nick charles former co-host, fred. fred, so much of what i see on espn and so much you hear about the genius of espn started with you and nick. what you did in the 1980s at cnn is remarkable. talk about your friend. >> caller: that's nice of you to say. nick and i -- i'm glad you put it that way, we were friends. i happened to grow up in springfield, illinois where he had his first television job. he was ten years older than i am. i watched him as i was growing up. went to college. things broke and we both went to cnn at the same time. nick already established himself in washington and baltimore. i was just coming out of springfield. i had two job offers by the way. one in dayton, ohio. the other was to work for ted turner in atlanta. >> yeah. >> caller: it was the same money. the only reason i went south was to get warm. i get down there and much to my surprise, there's nick. i finally got a chance to meet this guy. we had a great chemistry for a bunch of years. they teamed us up. the rest is history. he was a great guy and a great friend. never had a cross word with each other. it's almost impossible. >> yeah. mike barnicle is in boston. you talk about chemistry, these two guys were born to work with each other. it was remarkable. every night, that tongue in cheek delivery they would give was great. you would laugh one second and the next second, nick would ask a really tough question to somebody that wasn't expecting it. what a great team. >> you know, joe, everybody in the world is now familiar with the phrase, this is sports center. espn has become such a giant over 20 years in sports information and news. but these two guys were there before people were so familiar with this is sports center. had cnn went a different direction with sports broadcasting, you never know what would have happened. this was an incredible piece of journalism they put together for years. >> when it started, did you have any idea how successful it would be? was there a second you were on camera and said this is going to work? >> caller: not right away. we had a 7:30 show. i went to make a speech and i came back and the show was canceled. we're done. you know, i think it wasn't until we started hearing from people like the soldiers overseas, you know, who would write and say hey, man this is the greatest piece from home. we never had any idea that we had that kind of an outreach. our ten >> caller:s were going every play. cnn, at that point was the only cable network that was distributing news. the other thing, i want to say this about nick, he had no ego, none, what so ever. that translates in all the tweets and e-mails i have been getting from former interns and former people we met along the way. nick never met a stranger, ever. >> you survived that. thank you. >> caller: i'm still scarred. >> we all are. fred, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you called in. >> thank you, guys. i appreciate it. >> there are a lot of younger kids, my son would have no idea what these guys did. >> these guys, though, so much of the attitude that espn now has, they had it in their show. what is the thing you learned most from him. no ego, it helped make him successful. praise to his family. >> no doubt about it. next, mika's must read pages. what's up, smart? 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[ male announcer ] half a days worth of fiber. not that anyone has to know. fiber beyond recognition. fiber one. not that anyone has to know. every day you live with the pain of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis could be another day you're living with joint damage. help stop the damage before it stops you by asking your rheumatologist about humira. for many adult patients with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis humira has been proven to help relieve pain and stop joint damage. humira's use in patients with ra has been evaluated in multiple studies during the past 14 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events can occur such as, infections, lymphoma or other types of cancer, blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. make today the day you talk to your rheumatologist. and ask how you can defend against and help stop further joint damage with humira. are you too tough when it comes to people questioning you? >> i'm huggable and lovable, david. i am not abrasive at all. i'm honest. i wish we had more of it in politics. you know what people are tired of in politics? blow dried, tested answers and everybody sounds the same, rrr, rrr, rrr. everybody sounds the same. i don't sound the same. you know why? i speak from the heart. >> rrr, rrr, rrr. >> chris christie is going to be on the show today. you know who is coming to princeton? it's going to be fun. time for the must read opinion pages. thank you. >> see the column yesterday? >> yeah. she says it president is bi. is he really? >> bipartisan, you mean? >> not bipartisan or bisexual. in afghanistan he wants to go, but he wants to say. on libya, wants to lead from behind. on the budget, he wants to cut spending and increase spending. on health care, he wants to get everybody covered. on wall street, sales fat cats but wants to collect their fat. politics, friends with the other side, but bash them at the same time. then she closes this way. sometimes as chris christie put it, the president has to show up. the man in the oval office shields his identity. one of the most important issues basing this nation -- on some of the most important issues facing the nation, it's time for the president to come out of the closet. >> mike barnicle, growing frustration by many on the left is that this president, i don't want to say doesn't stand for anything, but what does he stand for? what is he willing to fight for? >> when maureen has her fastball, there's no one better in print. you are right, joe, especially on the war in afghanistan. there's increasing discontent on the left and frustration and maureen points out with financial assistance. they are demonized for a year and a half to two years then the $35,000 a head fund-raisers. who is he? he's a politician. that's who he is. >> that's what's so stunning, a politician is acting like a politician because there was hope and change. yet, he seems to be extraordinarily measured. almost like he's a human polling machine. >> yeah. i think mike is right. we are surprised we elected a skilled politician to be president. remarkably young age with not a lot of races under his belt. what i find -- i sometimes wonder and i wondered when i saw maureen's column, whether obama is already thinking about things he will regret not having done. you know, whether he is projecting forward in some way thinking you know, i'm going to look back on this and think i had this for four years, i had it for eight years and i didn't make this fight. >> i have a question. we talk on this show all the time about coming to the middle. the question is, we think it's a good thing. then we criticize him for not being far enough left or right. >> no, no. >> in terms of leadership and taking a stand on an issue, we talked about the financial reform on wall street. they think he's too tough on the left. they think he's too easy. what does it mean? >> chris christie also says in order to be a leader in his state, he's got to compromise along the way. >> this is not about a political middle. this is about a man who always tries to be king solomon and split it in half. sometimes real leadership calls for redecisions. if you are going to go into libya, go and kill him and don't lie saying you are not engaging in hostilities. if you want to make a change in afghanistan, don't think you can play around with numbers and tread this mushy, middle course and drag it on three or four more years. this has nothing to do with the president moderating politically. it's just on every single issue. let's talk about gay marriage. a big issue in new york state. he goes to give a speech and those supporting gay marriage. as one columnist said, dick cheney is more progressive on gay marriage than barack obama. always too clever by half. >> he is. my gripe with the president, he needs -- the style and approach needs to engage more. let's step back and look at facts. on afghanistan and iraq, he's following through with what he promised he would do. we are killing more terrorists. we killed bin laden with the help of gorge bush as well. where he's failed most is jobs and the economy. if the economy was better, people would think better of him. don't seem to be trying hard enough. they are not going from idea to idea. had he not -- had he not pulled the coalition earl enough, the criticism would be louder. is it confusing? yes. so is the middle east and the rest of the world. he thinks one of the reasons members of congress are as critical as they are, they see him at not paying dues like they paid. >> mike, let's talk, we'll take libya for instance. libya, afghanistan, it's where the president has more sway than anything. look at libya. he says we are not trying to kill gadhafi. they are trying to kill gadhafi. we are not engaged in hostilities. they are engaged in hostilities. he says gadhafi must go, but it's not about regime question. how stupid does he think voters are? >> i don't think he thinks they are stupid. part of it is the way he was raised. now this job he has is different. when you make a decision in this job, a real decision, leadership decision, some people are going to get angry at you. he seems to have the ability to live with that right now, which is troublesome. >> a question was asked of bill clinton in a memorable "rolling stone" cover. is there anything you would be willing to die for? anything? the question really upset him. the president -- that was an intense question to ask. i don't want to pose that question for the president. you just wonder. i'm speaking as a small government conservative, a political person that doesn't agree with him on a lot of issues. as a liberal, i would be asking what does he believe in? does he support gay marriage ornd? look at "the new york times" today. was he opposed to cheney-bush or not? he's doing the exact same thing on the war and terror doubling down in many aspects. what does he believe are the bush tax cuts? what was he believe in? >> he believes in finding some compromise, to try to push forwards. >> we are going to talk about this more in a few minutes. we'll be right back. 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please call back between 8 and 5 central standard time. he's in control. goodbye. even kids know it's wrong to give someone the run around. at ally bank you never have to deal with an endless automated system. you can talk to a real person 24/7. it's just the right thing to do. you can talk to a real person 24/7. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. introducing better car replacement, available only with liberty mutual auto insurance. if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? inside all of us is a compass and it always points true north. toward mountains of sand. toward new sights and sensations. toward the true bounty of nature so let's set our compass for traverse city and find ourselves. in the magic, and the moments of pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org. ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ my only sunshine ♪ you makes me happy ♪ when skies are grey ♪ you'll never know, dear ♪ how much i love you ♪ please don't take my sunshine away ♪ [ male announcer ] as long as there are babies, they'll be chevy's to bring them home. ♪ i put out this pension and benefit plan first in september and i did 30 town hall meetings across the state selling the plan saying something needed to be done and convincing the public my approach was a reasonable one. i compromised off the approach. if you are the executive, you have to be the guy out there pushing and leading. i think, if the president made a mistake it's the laid back kind of approach waiting for someone else to solve the problems. >> welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour. beautiful shot of new york city. andrew is still with us. joining the table now, democratic senator from west virginia senator joe. steve rattner is back at the table. >> can i be a finance ear? >> we have been -- >> lot to do here. >> senator, i want to ask you about this. what you just handed me was a white house briefing to senators -- >> internal briefing we were made aware of last week. >> on afghanistan? >> yeah. >> mike barnicle, listen to this. we'll get him in a second. here's the administration. the white house's own words on afghanistan. on the reat side we haven't seen a terror threat imnating for the past seven or eight years. there's clearly been fighting and threats inside afghanistan talking the 50 or so in the unit. there is no effort within afghanistan to use that country to carry out attacks. again, we don't see a transnational threat out of afghanistan in terms of the terror threat and it's not going to affect it all. the threat in pakistan, either. the white house's own words. there has not been a terrorist threat out of afghanistan for the past seven or eight years. afghanistan, the white house does not see as a terrorist threat toward the united states. or pakistan. how do you square that with what the president of the united states is saying publicly? >> back home in west virginia, i said we went to afghanistan for the right reason. we are staying for the wrong reason. that's as simple as i can put it. we seem to be staying well beyond our mission of counter terrorism. we ask people on the show why are we staying there. they say they launched 9/11. we have been successful. >> we won. we killed them. let's get out. >> i just -- i really thought long and hard about this and the straw that broke the camel's back was china when they are the only country. i talked to american companies that got out good by china. >> we are exhausting ourselves and helping our rivals. >> enough is enough. there's no reason for us to be there. >> just on this subject, bob gates now says the u.s. strategy in afghanistan will shift toward counterterrorism as forces withdrawal. in a new interview, the strategy remains as the balance begins shifting. leaders from both parties stress strong opinions. lan nancy pelosi voiced her opinion yesterday. >> i hoped they could take troops out sooner. the lives and limbs, the cost to our taxpayer and the message to the afghan people, their government that they have to do their part of this and the sooner the better, the sooner they do, the sooner our troops will come home. >> we have done more harm to leave afghanistan a place to defend itself. at the end of the day, that is the goal. their police, their army can deal with the taliban once they leave. >> we are debating this. go ahead. >> all i was suggesting, on the record, we talked about how i think getting out of afghanistan makes sense. my other question, when you read that, how much is propaganda. it's internet and for his eyes and backing up the decisions they are making. prop gan ta's republican asufferance is you have your intel company here. steve rattner, what is your take? there hasn't been a terrorist attack out of afghanistan for seven or eight years. >> that's just a fact. when you said before that people need administration, i was struck the other day when secretary clinton described afghanistan as a place where girls are getting educated. a nation building exercise rather than a war on terror. i'm for nation building, but i think we're done enough to last a lifetime. >> what do they call them -- >> plant a flag of america. no, at some point, we may have to attack iran. we don't know what's going to happen. in this case, with afghanistan, it seems we are exhausting our resources and helping china. we are helping pakistan and india. i'm not just talking militarily, i'm talking economically. we are exhausting ourselves. >> i'm not sure it came through but npr says it costs $20 billion a year to provide air-conditioning in afghanistan and iraq to our troops. >> and we are cutting education. >> there's a lot of kids that don't get a chance. bridges, roads, infrastructure, they are all in the need for repair. they said if you are going to rebuild, let's come home and rebuilt america, firth. we are still going to be there. if you can't keep yourself strong. >> why does the united states foot the bill? why is it just the united states of america footing this bill, over $2 billion a week while we cut education, infrastructure, a & d. why does it always fall on our shoulders? >> you know, i asked the same question in libya. if gadhafi was such a threat, why is every nation not helping pay for it? we'll do the job but every other country paid. those are the questions we are asking. it doesn't make sense. >> this john mccain charge that republicans who do not support another decade in afghanistan or do not support whenever we are doing in libya, if the president said i want to kill moammar gadha gadhafi, that is one thing. for john mccain to suggest that you are an isolationist if you don't want to continue an endless war in afghanistan. what i'm talking about and the senator is talking about is actually n endpanling across the grob economically, not militarily. economically. we are spending our money in places where we shouldn't be spending our money. the chinese, as we say time and time again decades investing in africa and south america. investing across asia. we are fighting wars while the chinese are fighting economic battles. george is issuing a dire warning about the yur row. it's the future of the euro. there was no arrangement for any country leaving the euro, which is probably inevitable. we are on the verge of an economic collapse that -- he called it a plan be. he adds that sur rival of the european interest. you came on the set saying can we talk about greece. >> the greek people want to default. if you live there you want a default. the question is, will the strong pick up the weak? does germany and everybody else want to save the week? the question is no. it's a great story from "the new york times" about the derivat e derivatives we don't understand. how does it hold together. >> george soros is a man who made a lot of money betting on the failure of the british. he was right then. this is very serious business. >> he's right now. the construction of the euro was flawed. they put a bunch of countries together going with the same currency. as we talked before, greece went on a binge, borrowed and spent. there are only, i think two choices here, the rest of the world bails out greece or let them fall and the rest of europe tries to struggle on. the concern of europe. that's why they are fighting to hard to save greece. >> greece, portugal, ireland. >> banks in france and germany have greek paper they have not written down. if it falls, they have it wherein down and the banks have no problems. we have no idea what's going on to the other side. >> do the regulators know? if they know, it's possible. if they know and can't do anything about it, what do they do? >> the counter parties are not a big problem. the problem is, greece has $30 billion of euro debt outstanding all over europe. they are holding in the costs. they have not taken any pain. the institutions all have serious problems. >> senator, all of this happens and it is related to the economy and our financial system. the president of the united states not able to come to an agreement on the debt ceiling. >> i'm a new guy on the flak. i have a hard time grasping it. we should be looking to the next gen ration. i think we have to be some broader. we can fix the problem, but we have to come to an agreement. there has to be revenue and spending cuts. nothing is say credit. it shouldn't be. >> do most senators and congressmen understand that, behind closed doors? >> i said if we could bring everybody in the room, you have to be looking at revenue, making a tax system that is fair. the world needs to pay their fair share to america for the security we give. we have to look at the cuts we have to do as far as our spending, social programs. by protecting those in need, in west virginia i have my seniors that depend on social security for living. we had news of governors getting stuff done. chris christie is coming up. this is about state budget deficits and how parts of them overall the future. you have one about public employees. >> it's debt. the idea is whether you are talking europe or the state government. they are strapped with debt. >> debt and expenses. expenses got out of control and they have a pension problem building up. >> let's go through the charges. >> okay. everybody thinks about the states in terms of the pension problem. it's really broader than that. on this side, you can see what happened in early 2000s and how much they went up close to $250 billion. if you look on the right side, it's far worse. 600 bill dollars. it's rapid increase in spending. people don't always appreciate one thing, the obama administration helped. 20% of the stimulus program that everybody likes went to the states. about $165 billion. it would have made this problem worse. senator, you got the money in west virginia. >> we're in good shape, we would be in better shape. the stimulus money has dropped down. the states chose different ways of spending this. i want to talk about two at the extremes. if you take new york where andrew cuomo is facing a $10 million deficit, we cut that deficit. to his credit, he did a remarkable job. >> amazing. >> he did it with spending, not taxes. he drew a line and cut the budget deficit. illinois, many people think is among the worst of the problems, a debt of 40%. it raised taxes across the board. very little on spending. it's sort of deferred other expenses they are facing. i want to make another point. there's a big difference. we talk about states and how it relates. there are a couple big differences to keep in mind. states are required by law to balance their budgets. that puts a lot of helpful pressure on the states to get the job done. the second thing to keep in mind is that states could default. people worry about states defaulting. look at the credit rating. federal government, people domt warry about that. they keep borrowing at 3% and 4 pbt. on public pensions, these states have problems. remember, these only relate to state workers. in new jersey, it's 17% of all workers are state workers. the federal government faces these problems for every american because of medicare and social security. new jersey has pension liability. illinois has it equal to two years of hef knew. the government, 12 years. >> oh, my gosh. it is a lot tougher to be a governor when you have to balance everything than being a senator. >> as a leader you explain it. you are responsible for all 55 counties, not just one. coming up, alexander pelosi will be here. republican congressman from florida vern buchanan. up next, the huggable and lovable governor from new jersey. >> is he huggable? 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[ male announcer ] discover why it's the brand eye doctors trust most for comfort. if you have astigmatism, there's an acuvue® oasys lens for that too, realigning naturally with every blink. ask your doctor for acuvue® oasys brand. you don't send your children to public schools, you send them to private schools so i was wondering why you think it's fair to cut school funding to public schools. >> what's her name? >> what's her name? gayle. >> first off, it's none of your business. don't bother me about where i send my kids to school. >> if they said be on the ticket, i know you said you are not a vp kind of guy. >> can you imagine? the president would have to be sedated. >> huggable and lovable. >> i am. but you saw the answer i gave to gail. it's who i am. i don't think it's vice presidential material. >> i think he might be huggable. should i try? after the interview. all right. so, joining us now, the republican governor of new jersey, chris christie, good to have you back on the show. you were sedated on "meet the press." >> you think? >> yeah. it was not like chris christie with gayle. >> david gregory didn't treat me like gayle did. i am all about the reaction. you treat me with respect, i'm huggable and lovable back. >> it's a fair question. >> it's a ridiculous question to ask. stop playing mika this morning. >> it's none of her business. >> really? but you're the governor. >> just because i'm the governor doesn't mean that you or joe or anyone else gets to come into my home and scrutinize the decisions we make about our children. that's what she was doing. >> really? >> you are in charge of the public schools of new jersey. are they not good enough for your kids? >> they don't teach religion. we want to make sure our children are getting the values we are teaching at home. we made that decision. i pay my $38,000 in property taxes. most of them go to the school system. it's my obligation as a citizen. i made the choice. my wife made the choice to pay for our kids to go to a parochial school. t her question -- it's none of her business why that decision was made. i'm a product of the public schools in new jersey. i probably know more about it than she does. >> i'm sure the teachers are proud of that fact. >> there's a lot of them who are. >> before we get to the budget, your approval rating is 44% according to a poll. it's your lowest of 2011. what's going on? >> you earn political capital to spend it to do big things. listen, what we are doing, what we did and what we're doing tomorrow when i sign the pension benefit is -- it's hung up on the wall to say how pretty it is. you earn it to spend it. when people, you know, see the results of what we are doing here, i suspect they are going to be happy. >> we are in the last week -- what are you laughing -- >> all i know is dan malloy was lecturing me about look how he can get it done. he negotiates with people and he got these big concessions in return for tax increases. the people of connecticut have big tax increases with no concessions. the union socked it to them. >> he got some concessions. >> they voted them all down. he trumped it. they voted it down. the people of connecticut have the tax increases. now, he's going to have to lay up to 7500 people. >> it's a big story. we're having him on. >> let me ask you how to do that. there's a contrast between what happened in wisconsin with scott walker, fighting, scratching and clawing. it's going to hang over him. you were always the in your face guy, how do you get democrats to come on board for the bipartisan bill? >> people in the media often confuse bluntness with inflexibility. they are not exclusive. i'm blunt and direct. we put our plan out in december. i did 30 town hall meetings around new jersey selling that plan, explaining it in plain english to people about why the debt was unsustainable. i think i sold the public of new jersey on it and got a group of courageous democrats. the senate president steve sweeney, a democrat, the speaker sheila oliver, a democrat, they posted the bills and voted for them. a third of their caucuses supported the bill. the way we did it, i got in a room with them and hammered it out. i could see things in the beginning they thought i never would. i'm going to sign the bill. it will save the taxpayers at least $132 billion and will insure the insol van si of the pension plans and make health insurance available to public workers but not a burden on middle class taxpayers. >> will you be able to balance the budget and tax hikes in the future? >> yes, i'll be able to balance the budget. >> why not? >> new jersey that has highest taxes. the top 1% in our state pays 41% of income tax. we have the highest taxes in america of any state. we have already paid our fair share. what we need to do now is prove to the public we can manage the money we have. get ready for this -- california has a higher income tax but overall when you enter property taxes, we have the highest. andrew cuomo is lowering income tax rates. the democrats in my state want to raise ours. >> property tax -- >> we have a property tax cap. i can't live come pettively with a 4% tax differential between new jersey and new york. we will get crushed in the housing market. >> we grew up in the south. this is not as prevalent in the south. you don't have crushing taxes in the house. >> state taxes. >> state taxes. in the northeast, people say do i move to new jersey or connecticut or new york because the taxes are so oppressive. >> mika is from the south, too. to the governor's point, you have new jobs, new industrial and the pressure on state economies. >> they are doing a lot of things alike. it's interesting. you'll both be judged on your results. i probably won't vote for chris christie if he runs for president. his bluntness. >> oh, look at him. he's lovable and huggable. >> the fact that he was able to get in a room -- i think you have been able to bring people into the room. you are going to have outside noise. you are able to get the participants to come to the table. the way you answered david gregory on "meet the press." when you were asked about afghanistan, you were honest. the president knows more about that. >> what do you think of andrew cuomo. four major victories, ethics reform, property tax cap, gay marriage, he closed a 16 whatever -- >> budget gap. >> he's doing well. >> he's doing great. >> you may not agree with the gay marriage issue, but he got it done. >> this is the point i was trying to make. andrew cuomo is a perfect example of this. he gets in the room, he gets his hand dirty and gets it done. he's not sitting back waiting to see how everybody comes on this and if i can find a room to wriggle in here. he sets the debates and compromises where he needs to. i my cover cuomo did a great job. we don't agree on the gay marriage issue, but it's okay. he's a leader. he believes in it, if you can convince people. >> i think the president is a leader. joe, what i think is he's failing on this debt and deficit crisis. he's failing. it doesn't mean he can't turn it around. he's coming in the room finally. get joe biden out and him in. they want to hear from the man or woman in charge. the president is the person in charge. he's the one to force consensus and make concessions the republicans will believe they can count on. it's important. when i say i'll get republican votes to do this, they look at me and go okay, we'll do it. otherwise, it's squishy and everyone takes a risk. >> i want to be clear on taxes. at this point, they are not the same thing. we have had fair tax rates and people consider tax rates on the wealthiest. i think we are at a point where it is. i don't want to be overly critical. we have tracked car jobs and we have problems in our system. >> what i'm saying is we have already done that. we have done it and there's no reason to double down on it. new jersey right now, pennsylvania is at 3%. income tax rate, new york is 6.85. if we go to 10.75, they are going to be rushing out to pennsylvania and new york. i'm not going to do that when i'm trying to put people back to work and unemployment over 9%. >> you said you want the guy in the room who can forge consensus. what if the president isn't good at that? what if biden is the better negotiator. >> you better get good at it. you can't be the president of the united states and say i'm not good at bringing people into a room and forcing compromise. when what are you doing there. he's not prime minister, he's president. if you are not willing to get in the room and say i'm not good at that, let my ministers and l for me, then i come in to bless the deal. it's not what the president is. it's a fine system of government. >> do you think it's what we are in now? >> if he doesn't step up to the plate, we'll drift. the president is the person who can stop the drift. >> what should republicans in washington be willing to concede? >> i'm not in the room so i don't know what they should be willing to compromise. i think the president and the republicans have to say what are we going to do that makes us uncomfortable? that's when you get real compromise. when i used to settle cases as a lawyer, i knew i got to a good place when i wasn't happy when i walked out and the other side wasn't. >> the tea party don't challenge the house? >> it depends on what they agree to. i'm going to assess it. get in the room and start working. i believe these folks are well intended people who know there's a huge problem. there's a freight train coming down the track at us. it's getting closer and closer. they have to fix it. >> if the president and the republicans sit in the room and say we have to fix this, what are we going to do? >> have the republicans conceded on anything, though? is there any reporting on that? i think you can't work with -- >> mika, i don't think they should concede anything until the guy who can concede on behalf of the democratic party gets in the room and concedes himself. >> what did you take off the table when you started? you took nothing off the table. republicans have taken off the table. do you think that's the right thing -- the right way to negotiate? >> when you get in the room, sometimes things that were off the table are back on the table if there's an attractive offer. you know why he walked out. he did it to get the president in the room. >> hopefully he achieves that. >> now boehner is going to come into the room. this is a dance. the dancing is over. it's time to get it done. to me, that's the difference. i'll say one thing on the health insurance that we did, i said i would not do the bill after four years. she said governor, i cannot do this without it. i said this is too important for me to put my heels in the ground. i gave in on the sunset. >> all right. >> what do you think? >> i think he is. all right. he's huggable. come on. let's see. oh, my. yes he is. >> eat your heart out, america. >> thank you, governor. >> another segment, come on. >> i take it we'll see you tomorrow night in princeton. >> i'm going to welcome you both to new jersey. >> thank you very much. >> your book signing at barnes & noble. >> i think we'll have a group hug. >> i have to hug joe? >> yeah. okay. >> all right, very good. coming up next, a gold cup match with mexico. roger bennett will be here. why a game turned hostile for the home team. no hugs there, when we return. s ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪ [ whistle ] ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪ [ ting! ] [ male announcer ] travelers can help you protect the things you care about and save money with multi-policy discounts. are you getting the coverage you need and the discounts you deserve? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage or visit travelers.com. >> ( rooster crows ) >> by 2020, 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve and grow to protect your human network. ♪ ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ my only sunshine ♪ you makes me happy ♪ when skies are grey ♪ you'll never know, dear ♪ how much i love you ♪ please don't take my sunshine away ♪ [ male announcer ] as long as there are babies, they'll be chevy's to bring them home. ♪ we have soccer analyst, roger bennett. >> roger. >> i say they need to run american soccer. >> it may happen. >> dismal, dismal weekend. >> not a good weekend. a little stale. perhaps it was the gold cup final. a junior varsity tournament. there is nothing with the rivalry between usa and mexico. 94,000 at the bowl. 78 of them cheering for the united states of america. they saw that team shoot into a lead. 23 minutes in. things were looking good for the americans. then, it became mexico. pablo snatched two goals as they shot to a three-goal lead. this is a stunning shot with the outside of his foot. the united states was charitable. this was an extraordinary goal. defender on the line. look at that accuracy. bouncing feet. reminds me of river downs a bit, the mexican version. then that. it could have been six or seven-two. >> what's wrong with team usa? >> they are naive. we want more now after the world cub round. >> no, that was a mistake. >> we are still paying off the damage, mika. >> what do we need to turn this team around? >> a little bit of vision. we were not able to score goals. we need one world class. the whole program is looking stale, joe. may be time for a change. >> change. what about the women? >> worry not, america. it's women's turn. on occasion you have dominated. 1936 in the finest moment. >> yes, we remember that well. >> yesterday, 74,000 screaming women. this was germany against canada. when you see the shirts of germany, it doesn't matter if they are filled with men or women. they did it in less than a goal. canada tried. they were doomed by the second goal. wait until this one. they actually put the goal in the german map. look at this one. >> it is sin claire. >> she's now on liverpool's radar. the atmosphere was remarkable. this sting was at 200 countries around the globe. nothing finer for young girls to watch. if any young girl watches it. >> so, that is -- how do they stack up against the usa? >> the usa are number one in the world. they have staggered into this. they play against the government funded north koreans tomorrow. espn is playing to whole tournament. an english tea. >> good. there you go. whatever he just said. coming up, nominated for an emmy, film maker alexandra pelosi will be here. we'll be right back. i have copd. if you have it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms... by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. and it's steroid-free. spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor right away if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. breathing with copd is no small thing. ask your doctor about spiriva. when someone changes lanes without warning? or when you're distracted? when you're falling asleep at the wheel? do you know how you'll react? lexus can now precisely test the most unpredictable variable in a car -- the driver. when you pursue perfection, you don't just engineer the world's most advanced driving simulator. you engineer amazing. ♪ [ female announcer ] wake up to sweetness with honey nut cheerios cereal. kissed with real honey. and the 100% natural whole grain oats can help lower your cholesterol. you are so sweet to me. bee happy. bee healthy. years ago, we had pregnant reporter at channel 3. we are not going to use any names here, but she was being mistreated by the news director. she hadn't told anyone. they said we are not going to use you, >> he showed this video, this had is the only one i will let you-all see, like five minutes after i had my first baby and then all these other pieces of video, me 20 years ago. >> hartford, seeing you and hartford and they absolutely love you. >> it was nice and it was great to do the show, see everyone. >> i just like the hartford years. >> sort of like "behind the music." >> lincoln, springfield. >> i had a lot of years in hartford. >> they absolutely love her up there, it's a great place. >> we did an event for the hartford public library that evening. >> hartford public library and talked to dan malloy a good bit and that is going to be fascinating. we need to get dan on the shock the governor of connecticut. >> this week. >> he chose a different path than chris christie, obviously, things are kind of rough up there now for him, but it's a four-year term. >> it's a four-year term, these are tough issue, play a lot of gamesmanship, push each other right to the blink and see who is going to blink a little bit, very tough stuff. asking these workers to take tough medicine and this they are pushing back, you can't blame them for that. >> reminds me bob reilly back, his first year as governor of alabama pushed a very unpopular tax cut, voted down by voters and that gave him the freedom over the next seven years make the cuts he had to make and he left a very popular governor. i think dan malloy made the offer, the unions turned him down and now he is going to have to go back and make some tough choice bus no one can ever say that he didn't try to work with the unions, right? >> no one can say he didn't trial. he may get there with the unions but as i said before, the great -- the beauty of the state situation is they have this discipline of laws required to balance their budgets. they will be forced to do the right thing one way or the other. >> fascinating what's happening. >> a great event, again connecticut, the hartford public library. >> yes, it was. >> what you call the gho. >> traveler's, women's day. >> traveler's. dan malloy, get talk to him h >> he's a fascinating backstory, we will have him this week to talk about what is going on in connecticut that is a big headline. we will be back with more "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. 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>> well, of course a person a person has to be careful with statements that they make and that is true and i think now there will be an opportunity to speak fully on the issues. i look forward to that. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, we have jon meach meachum, harold ford jr., andrew ross sorkin and in boston, msnbc -- >> he's back? i didn't think we were going to get him back? >> he wouldn't leave the studio. mike barnacle. >> we got a lot to talk about michele bachmann, of course ask, you whether you ask -- >> that is amazing. can we -- was that an amazing interview, especially the fact it was on fox? give any credit? no? >> i think that's what chris wallace claims he does. maybe he show it had there. harder on republicans. >> i don't know. i think somebody -- >> you know what makes me feel better -- >> that interview but it didn't look like michelle bachmann. i thought it was silly question. >> you thought he looked like a flake for answering the question. >> why is that a silly question? >> "are you a flake?" >> what do you think he was getting at? >> of course i know what was getting at. >> what was he getting at? >> i think he was getting at the fact that some people think she's a flake. >> thank you. so, you think that's proper, to call someone a flake? >> i do i think it's fair question. >> you-all think it's a fair question. >> i thought it was a hard question. i don't know how you actually answer that question appropriately. >> i think there's a way to -- there is a way to answer it, i think that is a flaky question, i'm not going to answer t. >> that would have been a good way to answer it. >> where were you when she needed you the postdoctorate federal law. >> a lot of people who may suggest that, but let me tell you why you walk into why you are running for president, you why think this thing is important. you and i faced tough questions. i got some of the silliest, most insane questions over a year and a half ago when i considered running for senate here. i thought 98% of the questions were silly, i took them, turned them around, answer the question i wanted to answer xhoechlt have used that moment to dispel a lot of the flake myth. i thought her answer, a c-plus on the answer, b-minus, i thought overall, it was a fair question. the fact it came from fox, even more credible. >> alex says he has apologized for the question. >> i don't know. i -- i -- i -- >> chris wallace? >> i think it is easier to ask the -- >> i messed up, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to disrespect chris wallace. >> a safer we do ask of conservatives, because look not only how republican candidates have been treated throughout the years but how republican presidents have been treated. there's always an assumption, jon meachum, back me up here, bay business you are a republican, you are a downs. dwight eisenhower, the knock was that he was this dumb old man that doddered around the golf course. my mom, who was an fdr democrat at one time, i grew up hearing that myth. oh, ike was just some doddering old fool playing golf. he is as right-wing as they get. ronald reagan, an amiable downs. this is what the media does to republicans. >> i think an inherent bias toward thinking that the liberal is the more intelligence, sophisticated figure. and i think that's proven out through the years. the question about chris wallace is should he have said -- the way -- the way it would have been okay, in quotation marks, would be saying how are you doing going to deal with the issue that some people refer to you as a flake, so it becomes a meta question. i salute him for just going n >> hold on, just sounds like we are just learning or hearing that he is apologizing for the question? >> yeah, which i -- the opposite of what we were just talking about the last two minutes. >> mike barnicle, welcome back. >> you know what i find interesting is the impact of michelle backman, ed rollins, the impact other professional people have had had on her. she didn't snap, didn't bite on the question, looked fairly reasonable to my eye and raises the question, to which other candidate, who tomorrow is she going to be the bigger nightmare, mitt romney or sarah palin? >> there it is. >> i think if you look at the latest "des moines register" poll, she is right now a serious problem for all comers. she is -- she has -- this race over the past week has turned into a race between mitt romney and michele bachmann. and harold ford jr., a lot of surprise there >> the thing i didn't know -- i was glad the question was asked, i didn't know she was a lawyer and i follow thing also closely, accident realize she had an advanced degrees, an opportunity to lay ought all that out. the inherit bias, people in the press question whether or not the president of the united states was an american citizen. >> who's that? >> i said up until six to eight weeks ago there were those who raised the question. >> who in the press? >> there was some on shows on other networks no need to mention a network, other networks where the question came up and had had people on who promoted that idea and that train of thought. two, bill clinton, he was accused of committing a murder. they accused him of bag part of committing murder of vincent foster. >> who is the mainstream press forwarded that? >> other networks. all i'm saying, when you run for president, the questions get are fair. perhaps he could have asked the question differently, but i thought she answered the question -- i agree with my i thought her poise and disposition is what gave her a high grade in the way she answer happened >> mika, michele bachmann has, since that debate in new hampshire, become a top-tier candidate now. >> absolutely. center of the conversation. she is going to be speaking in her birthplace of water look, iowa. and expected to emphasize her hometown roots when she formally kicked off her campaign for the presidential nomination today. now, she also addressed some of her previous controversial comments, including when she said she had a calling from god to run for public office. she told cbs yesterday that god gives her a sense of what direction she should go. >> i am a christian, as is my husband. i became a christian when i was 16 years old. i gave my heart to jesus christ. and since that time, i have been a person of prayer. and so when i pray, i pray believing that god will speak to me and give me an answer to that prayer and so, that's what a calling is. >> john, you wrote a book, was not a pulitzer prize -- >> the morning joe he theologian. >> the "morning joe" theologian, get that in lower thirds. a good book. >> perhaps it is. >> but you talked about how faith played a role. >> sure. >> that shocking to some by 2011 standards would not be so shocking, oh, gosh, even to john f. kennedy, who would use language that would horrify many on the left today regarding god and his role in america. >> what is different about that is you would not have heard -- the first person who talked about giving his heart to jesus was jimmy carter in 1976. '76 is a watershed year in terms of language of the evangelical world. >> born again. jimmy saying he was born again. >> wasn't born again, as i sometimes think when george herbert walker bush heard the thing born again, he thought they were talking about a mulligan. there is a cultural divide. >> how long have you been saving that one? it was worth it? >> thank you. thank you. i spent a lot of time on that but at this point, i think that's -- i think particularly post-george w. bush, post-jimmy carter, it has been a bipartisan world view and i think that it's -- if it surprises people, i don't know where they have been the last 40 years. >> and you had, of course, mike barnicle, nancy pelosi is several years back saying she was born with a bible in her happened. both sides do this both sides try it. democrats are playing catch up with republicans. that being said, that plays very well in western iowa. not so well in southern new hampshire. >> yeah. you know, joe, i have always been out of the school of thought that we should give religion a good leaving alone. whatever candidate, whatever religion a candidate practices is the candidate's own business and if i were ever running for office, thank god i'm never gonna do that that would be it i'm a roman catholic. i have a faith in god but it's my faith and i practice it every day of my life, hopefully. some days i miss, some days i don't. but, you know, just leave it alone. that's all i'm gonna say about it that is the attitude i think i would like to see in a lot of candidates. >> but har record, you don't leave it alone in republican pry markers again, guy back to western iowa. that is a critical component. george w. bush in 2000 saying -- >> jesus christ. >> jesus christ was his favorite philosopher and made no secret about his faith. it is geographical for parties. up north, a different kind of republican party f you are michele bachmann, would you have to think iowa, i do well, new hampshire, play solid, give rom knit victory, south carolina, try to compete heavily. yet who wins from this? romney that's helped? we talk about who that is hurt? no doubt tim pawlenty hurt, newt gingrich may have been pushed out of this thing and sarah palin another obvious political casualty. if romney's strategy one-on-one with one of the conservatives. does this help him? i don't know, her rising as quickly it might be good for him to see her rise now, he can put his campaign together. effective later. it could be a cheap piece now and an opportunity to show that he is the most serious, grounded, credible candidate in the race. >> compromise could be in the works over the battle over the nation's debt limit, according to the the "washington post" which reports that republicans could see put cuts in military spending in a bid to reach a deal. now, president obama is scheduled to meet with senate party leaders harry reid and mitch mcconnell about the deficit at the white house today. the visits come after talks between vice president's bipartisan group collapsed last week when eric cantor walked out in a dispute over tax hikes. mcconnell says the standoff on taxes is unlikely to change. >> well, i think we have gotten to the point where we caught aught to put aside our talking points and get down to what can actually pass. the whole business of raising taxes, regardless of how you go about it, it something this congress is not the likely to do the last congress wasn't following do t we need to talk about what can pass. >> nancy pelosi is pushing back, though, saying deals for special interest and not tax pick hikes that is the problem. >> leader cantor can't handle the truth when it comes to these tax subsidies for big oil, for corporations sending jobs overseas, for giving tax breaks to the wealthiest people in our country while they are asking seniors to pay more for less to be on -- as they abolish medicare. >> meanwhile, chris christie kind of crystallizes everything on "meet the press" yesterday. take a listen. >> the president had to get involved personally. and what i found in new jer and our experience talking about what you just talked about was there is no substitute for the three leaders in the room having to look at each other and having to hash this out and everybody's got put skin in the game there has to be a way to find principle ed outcome where people are also compromise and what the the specifics of that are going to be are going to be up to the president, the speaker and senator reid but they need to get in the room and finish this off. >> andrew ross sorkin, you have been shaking your head. >> just so disappointing, here we are, i don't know having a standoff or get there snob -- talking about having an adult conversation on the table, we are not having that conversation, taxes taken off the table completely and utterly, here we are back to cuts house, do we cut and which things people cut and republicans -- >> the "washington post" today talked about how republicans are putting a big -- we should read that later on, big defense cuts on the table. >> i know, that's what i'm saying. >> about tax cuts. that is a positive. but the question is it is always a two-way street and we still haven't got there. this is just like -- >> grow up, people. >> let me explain why i think both sides are on the same side of the street because mitch mcconnell said something i think very revealing there and i don't usually say that about mitch, but he said something very revealing, which is they weren't able to pass tax increases last august when nancy pelosi was speaker why should they do it now? >> right. right. >> this actually does unearth an essential truth in these budget negotiations. barack obama does not want to raise taxes right now. and a year out from election, nancy pelosi does not want to raise taxes right now o anymore -- hold on, i want people to listen to this, 'cause this is the truth and you're not hearing it. they don't want to raise taxes right now anymore than mitch mcconnell does or john boehner or paul ryan. there are political reasons why. nancy pelosi, as "the post" says today wants to be the speaker and she niece raising taxes won't do it. >> but that's the problem, because there's the politics and then there's the arithmetic, and the arithmetic says we are not getting to the right place, period, full stop, end of discussion, we can end the show right this second. we are on the wrong -- math does not add up. >> the math doesn't add up. right. there fore, ultimately, you're going to have to reduce cost and your going to have to raise revenue. >> when we come back, congressman verne by can and talk to alexandra pell lows bill is had her documentary, a 50 state road trip, but first, bill karins with a check of the forecast. bill? >> good morning to everyone, good morning to you, mika, childress, texas, impressive, it was 117 degrees in childress, texas, yesterday, just an incredible period of weather throughout the state of texas, one of the worst droughts in history and the heat already this summer, just schaadtarying records, the hottest temperatures ever in childress, texas. to the north in missouri, love to turn the faucet off. the rain will not stop. thunderstorms once again this afternoon. missouri river is flooding, now having problems on the mississippi and st. louis. going to be a wet first half of your day. forecast today, once again, in the hundreds, easily, from new mexico to arizona, through texas. thunderstorms from chicago, indianapolis, down to the southeast. and as far as what we are dealing with in the northeast this is where probably some of the best weather in the country is going to be, from boston southward to d.c. everybody is looking at a nice monday. thunderstorms are coming to our way tuesday. you are watching "morning joe." we are brewed by starbucks. my contacts are so annoying. i can't wait to take 'em out. 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[ speaking a foreign language ] >> god bless america. >> welcome back. that was a clip of a new hbo documentary by award-winning filmmaker alexandra pelosi called "citizen usa, a 50 state road trip about pelosi's travels across america to attend naturalization ceremonies in all 50 states." alexandra joins us on the set. also at the able table, republican congressman from florida and member of the ways and means committee, representative verne buchanan. >> greet see you guys. >> alexandra, first of all, these ceremonies are among the most moving anybody can go to. they are just remarkable, respect they? >> yes, because the most important day in these people's lives. most people, you talk about immigration, you forget about all the people that come here legally and go through the process legally and feel like america really is their home and they own it the way a lot of people when you say the word immigrant, people -- they payment it with the same brush and not always the best. >> i have always found the best place to go to hear about why america is great is by -- from one of these ceremonies from somebody not from here who has been trying for five, six, seven, eight, ten years become a citizen. this is the highlight of their lives, in many respects. >> right and they tell you, hold up the mirror and show you how we look as a country, all the things we have here that we take for granted and realize how spoiled we are. >> what is the most moving moment for? >> well, i met a lot of people, i'm a young laid guy a camera, travel alone across the country, meet a lot of people and say to me where are you going to the hotel and drive to indianapolis tomorrow and they say alone, by yourself? how are you going to -- i'm in a hotel, how are you going to do that? a lot of countries can't drive as a woman, can't check into a hotel alone as a woman. so a lot of that was so even though they have been here long enough to be naturalized how coming to terms with how free you can be in this country traveling around, always struck other people more than it struck me. >> newly naturalized citizens, look on the front page of the "washington post," they see somebody -- >> who is that? >> so i get my starbucks coffee provided by morning joe, look how they spelled my name, p-a-l-o-s-y. i'm alexandra palosy today. >> see? >> remarkable for so many of these immigrants you talk to see a woman who is speaker of the house, was speaker of the house, third in line for the presidency. >> ancient history. i moved on. are you over? it? >> i'm trying to relit to your story about immigrants. >> oh, it was funny how she was on the test. now, john boehner is on -- question who is the speaker of the house is -- they have to take a test to be a citizen, they have to show a knowledge of civic -- >> uh-huh. >> who is the speaker of the house is one of the questions? now, of course, if you took that test and stood out at 30 rock, all the tourists, you know very few people would be able to pass that test. a lot of things need to know. i felt sorry for the people after the elections who is the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, wouldn't get their citizenship because they failed. you have to pay attention to the news to answer those things. >> things change. things change. you intersperse these newly naturalized citizens with really interesting names. first generation americans like madeleine albright, henry kissinger. >> henry kissinger. alexandra palawsy got ain'ter view are. >> show you any of these new american citizens, a million year become naturalized american citizens, any of them could be the next henry kissinger. any of them would be the next arianna huffington or gene simmons, reinvent popular call chur all around the world. >> so verne, obviously florida the state of florida is a state with a lot of immigrants, some legal, some illegal. how do we -- how do we have this sort of immigration reform that gets the best and the bright brightest across the world and brings them to america? >> let me just say one thing, you know, joe, being a member of congress, one thing you do realize, as she was mentioning in tampa, we have a large naturalization center there and people go through the process. we help them get their citizenship, as you did and they are so excited, so enthused. they believe in their mind you and they are right, a land of oop op tighten, if you work hard, play by the rules, anything is possible in america and i see that a lot in our region. store, is a very exciting process. i'm excited to see your programming coming up here shortly. >> immigration reform -- not on the table for the next year or so, is it? >> it should have been. we really need to deal with t in the state of florida alone it cost, for illegals, taxpayers $1.6 billion a year, tax payers are paying,er in our schools, thisser in our hospitals. but we need legal immigrants, my grand parents were from finland, for example, just two generations remove bud they came through the legal process and they learned english and all the other things some it is a big issue for them. >> is there a comp prom says no is there a compromise between the right and left on coming up with a way to have a lot of people that are here to find a pathway to citizenship? >> i have gone down the borders in el paso, my sister actually live there is, but 21 million people going northbound, everybody like to be in america because of our social safety network and all that and i just don't think you can get amnesty out because that send the wrong message and you are going to end up -- ronald reagan did it. going to end up with 15, another 30 million. so, i think if they want citizenship had they got to do like everybody else, get in the back of the line. i will just mention to you last night about immigration, being with the mayor. he brought up the idea of immigration that we have to really open the process up to make sure we get a lot of the right, diverse people. we need people to help work in the vineyards and stuff but we also need to have people that are going to help had must our high-tech industries that have challenges trying to get into the country. >> immigration has always been what has renewed america's spirit and you can go back 250 years and tell that. and yet, george w. bush and ted kennedy came together, tried to work in alliance. john mccain and ted kennedy came together. right now, hispanics are upset at barack obama because they don't feel like he is pushing enough. why is it so hard to come up, find a middle ground on immigration reform? >> probably because people are swimming the river every day trying to get here. >> yeah. >> so reagan, as you point out, was the last person that gave amnesty, seemed to work for a little bit that is the problem we have, everyone wants to to be here, the american dream is alive and well and the whole world wants to come here because no matter how bad it gets here, it is a hell of a lot better than most other place on earth. >> the one thing that during these immigration debates and you said something, verne, about going to the back of the line, the one thing that congressmen and your mom, i know your mom knows this better than verne and i do because she has been in congress longer. >> a lot of thing she is knows a lot better than me. >> we get to an age, we get that way. >> try to be nice. she's pelosi, how do you spell that again? i try to be nice and she comes back with an insult. but the thing is for instance, a pakistani tried to become a naturalized american citizen for eight years and just kept sending forms and would talk to -- i have a hundred stories of people that tried and tried and tried and tried and are doing everything right and are desperately trying to get their wives over here or their kids over here or their grandparents over here, just kind of tough to explain to them that somebody that walks across the border illegally, and is a hard worker and is doing it because they want the american dream for their family, too, i don't knock their motivations, i really don't, but it is just hard to square that with those that are trying to come here legally and can't get in for eight years. >> isn't this ironic? i'm sitting here with joe and i'm defending -- you're giving the perspective of all the people that complain about the american government. you're actually -- like the liberal word and i'm saying this had is the greatest system and how it worked and i'm representing the more conservative perspective, this is a nice switch. i'm saying the system does work and we should pay attention to the system how it does work. cable news all they do is talk about the planes that crash and not the planes that land successfully every day. >> that would be popular just watching the planes land. >> my son would love it. >> let me just add, part of the problem is i have been on the border at night where they come over and they just want a better life for their families from mexico but off lot of people coming from, let's say colombia to go to disney world, that is the back door coming but they come in the front door, go to disney world, bring their two kids and never go home and nobody checks on them. >> well, listen, here is another part of it too, it's -- it's a complete scam, but you have so many illegal immigrants working here, we get their taxes for social security, because they give incorrect social security numbers and we don't really check up on them, 'cause guess what, we are never going to have to pay up those benefits. everybody that says, oh, illegal immigrants, they use our schools and, yes, they do but at the same time, we get -- and you know this from ways and means, we get billions of dollars from illegal immigrants for social security, for fica that we are never paying out. >> they are paying 7% that is a good point and employer is matching 6, 7, getting 13% of whatever they are earning, gets kicked into the treasury. >> you know how they will work it let somebody work on the site for six months and then say, oh, your social security number is wrong, oh, okay, and they change a digit, we will get back to you in six months, by the time they catch one them, the project is over. >> stop talking about the illegal aliens, let's talk about alien -- >> you use that word. >> i know, that was bad. pelosi would not approve swhoechlt say don't call them illegal, call them undocumented workers. >> why would you call them illegal aliens? what's wrong with you? >> that was bad. i'm sorry. i will go home and say three hail marys. what about the people that come in and create jobs, all the ph.d.s coming in. >> that is the other side of it too, for the united states of america, as tom friedman has always said, not to pass out a green card with your advanced doctorate from mit, insanity. >> exactly. >> these are people that will start businesses inverne's district instead of colombia, china. >> that is why they should watch "citizen usa, a 50-state road trip." july 4th 9 p.m., alexandra, thank you, i think. >> i think. >> say hi to your mom. up next, business before the bell with tyler mathisen. >> pelosi. i will send this to shelley. yeah. and i can have a proposal to you within half an hour. we're a small business. with 27 of us always in the field, we have to stay connected. we use verizon tablets, smartphones. we're more responsive. there are no delays. delays cost money. with verizon, we do things quicker and more effectively. more small businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier because they know the small business with the best technology rules. let get a check of business before the bill, cnbc's tyler mathisen. live at the new york stock exchange. tyler, let tell you something i'm mad as hell and not put one it anymore, gas prices keep going up, oil prices keep going up, i'm so glad the president released the strategic oil reserves because i -- be what were we going up to, 150 a barrel? i'm mad as hell and i'm not putting up -- how high are gas prices now? >> don't be so mad, it's fine. take a chill pill. gas prices were already coming down. >> oh, really? what a surprise. i'm stunned. why would the president do such a thing, tyler? >> well, i think could you say p-o-l-i-t-i-c-s would have something to do with it. >> exactly. >> the concern is for every increase in gas prices, that means american spend less elsewhere. so those rising prices are a serious economic weight, a tax, really, if you will, but since they peaked back in early may, joe, down 37 cents already, now at $3.63 a gallon, down 11 cents in the past two weeks. >> tyler, we have been tough on the president since friday. >> very. >> saying this was all political. even if this was all political, even if he did this for reasons that i think are improper, gas prices still could go down more, right? >> absolutely. i think they are going to come down probably by another 20 cents a gallon or so, once we begin to get this release of the governmental supplies, not just in the u.s. we are half of the 60 million barrels that are going to be refrom global reserves but a very significant part of that, obviously, so another 20 cents is certainly probable and we are coming through the height of the driving season, as we move into the fall. you could well expect gas prices to come downtown and that is good for consumers every where. i have said all along, zwloerks are two numbers that the matter, five and nine. if unemployment to 9 and gas price his where near 5, it's all over, game, set is, match for the administration. >> think you are exactly right. congressman buchanan, you are on ways and means, am i being too tough on the president here? good that he released the strategic oil reserves. >> you think anybody understands why he did. so it is going to make a difference but not much of a difference. and i do agree with the gentleman there he said 5 and 9, the big issue, but i think to the general feeling that we probably won't be much better at 9% in 18 months. people don't see, you know, where the change ask going to come about that quickly. >> the rebound and of course, tyler, look at what's happening in greece now, george soros talking about the eu possibly collapsing, that is bad news, not only for greece but for america. >> this is why greece matters it is awfully easy to say wake me when it's over, guys, because i'm tired of talking about greece, but it really does have a kind of systemic ripple effect that could bring, as you say the euro down ultimately. if greece goes, then ireland may choose to go, then portugal and spain and you get a knock-on effect that would cripple, because we really don't know where all the little landmines are, who owns what? who owes what? as you recall back in 2008, it was obscure insurance contracts written by a london subsidiary of aig that almost brought the whole system to its o cf1z&hc% deficit, $188 million per hour of new debt and deficit, that's what we are accumulating. you talk about the american dream, we are putting all that at risk, we got to deal with t governors 49 out of 50, see governor christie here, our governors are doing a good job, they are leading, spending political capital. >> i think generally they will, though i think that is probably a more marginal thing, a lot of the markets are paying tention to what happens in greece. greece begin dees baiting the new austerity issues, measures today and then a vote later in the week, so that i think, will be number one. >> tyler, thank you. >> tyler, thank you. >> i'm not upset anymore. tyler has calmed me, once again, he soothed my jangled nerves, thank you, tyler. >> all right, maureen dowd's writing about our binary president, that's next. i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here -- to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line. but i'll be there every step of the way. call or come in and talk with us today. can your moisturizer do that? [ female announcer ] dermatologist recommended aveeno has an oat formula, now proven to build a moisture reserve, so skin can replenish itself. that's healthy skin for life. only from aveeno. what if the president suspect good at that? what iffed by isn't better negotiator? >> he better get to that. that's really t you can't be president of the united states and say, yeah, but i'm not good at bringing people into a room and forcing compromise. what are you doing there? i mean, he is not prime minister. he is president. he is different. >> prime minister? >> i think if you are not willing to get in the room, if you say i'm not good at that look, my ministers will hand this will for me and i will come in to bless the deal that's not what a president s that's parliamentary system of government, perfectly type system of government but not ours. >> but do you think that's what we are in right now? >> well what i'm concerned about is if he doesn't step up to the plate that we are not going to do anything and we will drift. the president is the person who can stop the drift are. >> back with us for the must-read opinion pages, jon meach meachum, harold ford jr., andrew ross, sorkin and mike barnicle in boston. >> you see the column? >> she says the president's about i. >> bipartisan, you mean? >> no, not by parten and not bisexual, butnary. this is what she says, i will pick out the key ones here n, a wasn'ts to go but he wants to stay. on libya, president obama wants to lead from behind. he is engages against gadhafi while telling congress he is not. on the budget, he wants to cut spending and increase spending. on health care, he wants to get everybody could have bird will not press for universal system. on wall street, he assails fat cat bus at cocktail party but he wants to collect fat for campaigns. on politics, likes to be friends with the other side and bash them at the same time and then she closes this way i sometimes, as chris christie put it the president has got to show up, with each equivocation, the man in the oval office shields his identity, cloaks hot real barack obama is. one of the most important issues facing this nation. on some of the most important issues facing this nation it is time for the president to come out of the closet. >> secondly, you are absolutely right, joe, especially on the war in afghanistan, increasing discontent on the left with regard to the president. there's increasing frustration, as maureen points out, for instance, with financial services, harold could speak to this they are demon niced for a year and a half to two years and then they have the big $35,000 a head fund-raising dinners. i mean, come on who is he? he is a politician that's who he is. >> i guess that's what's so stunning, jon meachum that a politician is acting like a politician, because it was hope and change and yet, he seems to be extraordinarily -- almost like he is a polling machine. >> i think mike is exactly right, surprised he elected a really skilled politician to be president, you know, and remarkably young age with not a lot of races under his belt. what i find -- i sometimes wonder and i wondered when i saw maureen's column, whether obama is already in some part of his writer's brain thinking about things he will regret not having done, you know, whether rejecting forward in some way in thinking, you know, i'm gonna look back on this and think i had this for four years, i had this for eight years and i didn't make this particular fight. >> so i have a question though. >> good point. >> we talk on this show all the time about coming to the middle and yet is and we think that's good thing, then we criticized -- >> bashing him -- >> for not being far enough left or far enough right. >> no. no. no >> but in terms of leadership and in terms of taking a stand on an issue, we have -- talk about the financial reform on wall street, they think he is too tough, ret tore clirks on the left. they think he is too weak.hetor left. they think he is too weak. >> this is not about a political mill this is about a man who always tries to be king solomon and split the baby in half. if you want to make a change in afghanistan don't think you can play around with numbers, chart this mushy middle course, nothing happens, but the war drones on another three or four years. this has nothing to do with the president moderating his stance politically. harold, it just seems on every political issue, he tries to be too clever, let's talk about gay marriage, a big issue in new york statement he goes to give a speech and cheer on those supporting gay marriage but as one columnist said yesterday, may have been maureen, actually dick cheney is more progressive on gay marriage than barack obama. always to clarify. what >> the style and the approach needs to engage a lot more, let's step back and look at facts one moment, on afghanistan and iraq, he is talking about following through on what he promised he would do in terms of reducing troop levels, we are killing more terrorist, killed bin laden with the help of george bush as well, happened on obama's watch, made the most courageous decision in his presidency, yes has failed i think is jobs and the economy. if the economy were better, people would think better of him. policy things, they don't seem to be trying to hard enough. they don't seem to be going from idea to idea. >> to support him on libya as well? >> had had he not pulled to go to the coalition early enough allocated more money, the criticism would be even louder on the other side. is it a little confusing? absolutely so is the middle east and so the world. so i give him credit for what they have done there frankly, which was a prominent u.s. senator over the weekend think that one of the rochbs the members of congress are as critical as they are, a lot see him not having paid dued like they have to pay. a lot of fact norse some of this at the end of the day lead on the economy and the debt f he doesn't do that vel a hard time. >> mike, and let's talk again, we will take libya, for instance, because what -- you look at maureen's column, libya, afghanistan, it really personifies that's where the has more sway than anything. look at libya. says we are not trying to kill gadhafi. but they are trying to -- they are trying to kill gadhafi. he says we are not engaged in hostilities. they are engaged in hostilities. he says gadhafi must go. then he says it is not about regime change. at some point it begs the question how stupid does he think voters are? >> i don't think he thinks that voters stupid certainly. i don't know. i think in the back of my mind, part of this is the way he was raised, you know, always skating in the middle, not wanting to offend anyone, wants everyone to like him, but now, this job that he has is really different because when you make a decision in this job, a real decision, a leadership decision, critical decision, some people are going to get angry at you and he seems to have an inability to be able to live with that right now, which is really troublesome. >> more "morning joe" in just a moment. we will be right back. inside all of us is a compass and it always points true north. toward mountains of sand. toward new sights and sensations. toward the true bounty of nature so let's set our compass for traverse city and find ourselves. in the magic, and the moments of pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org. ...was it something big? ...or something small? ...something old? ...or something new? ...or maybe, just maybe... it's something you haven't seen yet. the 2nd generation of intel core processors. stunning visuals, intelligent performance. this is visibly smart. host: could switching to geico did the little piggy cry wee wee wee all the way home? 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