Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20110607

in vegas. >> in a shout-out gotcha type of question that was asked of me i answered candidly. i know my american history. >> oh, i didn't -- it was a gotcha question. what was the question again? >> a gotcha question. i'm going to repeat it. what have you seen so far today and what are you going to take away from your visit. >> here's the thing. it doesn't make it a gotcha question. it doesn't make it a gotcha question just because it got ya. >> wow. >> good morning, everyone. it's tuesday, june 7th. look at that shot of the morning in new york city. with us on set, national affairs national new york magazine john heilman and former chairman of the republican national committee and now an msnbc political analyst, michael steele. >> really, guys? >> willie and joe. it's every headline. >> stewart and colbert were on last night. i challenge anyone that table to keep it together. >> whoa. >> obviously on the front page of the papers today, it's huge news. >> a lot going on. >> you know what? i'm not going to deny it. i'm very, very excited about it. understand, it's about time. this whole concept of the icloud because the thing is you get that music and have all of these different devices, right, and you've got some songs on your ipod and then some on -- it's great. >> 20,000 songs for $25. >> you can't beat it. you can't beat it. of course, other big news. >> this story, this thing about the charter schools with the ties to turkey. they're growing in texas. >> are you kidding me? >> in texas, some of it belongs to the islamic movement. there are islamic charter schools taking effect in texas based on the turkish model. >> and the breaking news about austan goolsbee. >> he's gone. >> amazing. >> seriously. >> i'm telling you. >> you guys saw this about the mining sector in peru, what's happening there. >> it's crazy. >> we were talking about it, here it is on the front page. >> the big story of the time back to your old friend walter jones, congressman walter jones. >> there's so much news today you can't shake a stick at it. >> we have breaking jones. >> walter has been, you know -- michael steele, walter jones has been an anti-war republican for some time and it's not like he's in san francisco. i mean his district -- he's got camp lejeune. what he's found is a lot of his constituents are in support of the fact that we're too extended. we need to bring our troops home. >> that's the national sentiment. even in groups of the republican party, you're hearing more talk about we've done a lot, let's bring them back. of course, i got in a lot of trouble for saying it a year ago. >> you said it a year ago. we've been saying it for a couple of years as well. what we've found is the american people have caught up. they want our troops to come home and it looks like congress is starting to catch up. >> we have that coming up, but first there is breaking news out of libya this morning. explosions reportedly shaking the area around the compounds of moammar. f it's the latest in a set of increased air strikes on the libyan capital. it's reportedly in the vicinity of gadhafi's residential compound which has been hit several times in recent weeks. earlier state television showdown images of destroyed buildings and video. but nato said they did not target or hit the libyan broadcast facility but rather military headquarters in downtown tripoli. we'll follow that. president obama said he'll soon be making an announcement about the number of troops he plans to withdraw from afghanistan. after meeting with his national security team yesterday, the president said that the u.s. has already accomplished large parts of its mission in the region. >> by us killing osama bin laden, getting al qaeda back on its heels, stabilizing much of the country in afghanistan so the taliban can't take it over, it's now time for us to recognize we've accomplish add big chunk of our mission and it's time for the afghans to take more responsibility. >> despite the success, the president says forces have made so far america's top two military commanders, general david petraeus and defense secretary robert gates won't commit whether the u.s. is actually winning the war. >> we're making progress. that's why we say these gainings while significant are fragile. >> we have not had a declared vick friday in the war with the possible exception of the first gulf war since world war ii. it is the phenomenon of modern conflict. are the american people safer at the end because of the sacrifice these soldiers have made? that's the real question. >> gates ended his farewell tour in afghanistan yesterday by telling u.s. and international forces that they are on track to delivering a decisive blow against the taliban. he now heads to brussels for nato meetings on the way forward in afghanistan and libya. it all comes as the latest "washington post" abc news poll says 43% of americans now say the afghan war is worth fighting compared with 31% in march. however, nearly three in four americans say the u.s. should remove a substantial number of u.s. combat forces from thanksgiving summer. >> all right. so what's going on here. you've got the white house sending signals to the press saying we're going to get out, bring significant numbers out. you have petraeus, gates and others inside the military suggesting otherwise. >> i think first of all it's always been that the military has i don't want to say pro-war or pro-surge. twhanlt to make sure this mission gets done and they've been more conservative on how to manage the drawdown. i think there's a political thing going on. bob gates is trying to give president obama maximum room to operate within a spectrum of possibilities, which is to say the politics are strongly for greater -- faster drawdown. >> but gates is giving him -- >> gates is giving him cover to push to give him room to steer toward a slower. >> the secretary of defense and general petraeus says we need to keep our troops here. >> the overall thrust of pulling our troops out is still the primary goal of the mission, and we'll continue in that vein until we get -- >> won't general petraeus be saying that in ten years? that's a general's job. that's their job to achieve the military presence. it's the commander in chief's job to determine -- >> it goes to what you're saying. where the president finds himself now is he's caught between the generals and the people and the overall sense the polls are showing that people are losing less interest in having folks stay there, having our servicemen and women stay there. what is the mission? okay, we got osama bin laden. the number of casualties is greatly reduced from before even though we've had some casualties in the last couple of weeks. he's caught in the political vortex of this. >> look at this "usa today" headline. the united states owes $62 trillion. try explaining to a voter in iowa, western iowa, why we should be spend 2g trillion a week. >> $2 billion a week. >> a week. >> a week. >> a week. >> $2 billion a week in an afghanistan war that could go on another decade. nobody wants to spend that money there. we got osama bin laden. there's only 50 members of al qaeda left in the entire country. why are we there? >> it's very interesting to watch people make the economic argument. where maybe they haven't made the fumt otherwise. the polls that michael just referenced are interesting because support for the war is actually up 12% from march. it was that 31%. now it's at 43%. now yet three quarters of americans say we should get substantial numbers of troops out. >> many americans think the war is not worth fighting. it is another recent phenomenon. vietnam didn't flip until the very bitter end. >> but i think it goes -- joe, for a lot of folks, what is our mission, what has been the mission for the last ten-plus years. that question has fundamentally not been answered. >> no, it hasn't. >> i think -- >> and isn't that something too? you ask -- we ask politicians all the time. >> exactly. >> i want to move onto the next story but this is such a critical point. politicians ask what's the objective. we've been there for a decade. we've had two presidents, george bush who was there when we began and barack obama. neater one can articulate clearly why our troops are there. they don't it. most of the time people sputtered pakistan. so we're fighting in afghanistan because of pakistan? no. >> that question comes to the table again and again and again, and as i said earlier a couple of days ago, it really hit home when the only afghan university president in this country doesn't understand our mission there and i was talking to him at a graduation. but i think the question now is not why are we there. how. nobody can answer that either. i think it's great to be on a soapbox and say we are against this war, it doesn't make sense, we have no objective. i think we're clear on that. how in the world do you get out? who's going to have the guts do that? i don't think it's that simple. what gouts into trouble. >> when we leave, what are we leaving behind? what's going to be there? after ten years, 11 earring, 123 years of struggle, loss of life, a lot of money, what is the state of afghanistan relative to the rest of the region. >> i'd also say michael made this statement before that the president is caught between his polls and his generals. if you think about the raw politics of this, if a dramatic rapid drawdown starts this summer and barack obama goes faster than people anticipated, and the country goes into chaotic violence, you know you're going to hear from whoever the republican nominee is. >> of course. >> no, no. i'm just saying it. we'll be all over him about how he is the president who lost afghanistan after george w. bush fought and died for it. >> that's what we've been saying around the table here for some time. that our troops are here fighting and dying and americans are still spend 2g billion a week on an endless war not for military reasons but political reasons. neither party wants to be the party blamed for losing afghanistan. >> how do you lead -- you tell me how do you lead by saying this isn't working, we've got to cut our losses, get out. >> oh, no. it's serious -- >> i mean what president? it's about winning. it's always about winning in america. >> here's what you do. ten years ago we were attacked. >> that's right. >> we were attacked brazenly, and the base of operations, al qaeda's base of operations were afghanistan. 3,000 americans died that day, and our troops were sent over there to do one thing and one thing only, to hunt down and kill al qaeda. and guess what? we've done that. we have destroyed their base of operation. we hear that only 40 or 50 members of al qaeda are scattered across the nation the size of texas. is that right. >> you're the geography expert. the president can say that. then i double down efforts. kill osama bin laden. we have achieved our goals. it is time to give afghanistan back to the afghanistan people, and it is time for the united states of america to rebuild here at home instead of halfway across the globe. >> sounds good to me. >> 90% of americans support that. >> joe, i'm with you on this. i'm not against you. >> right, right. >> i'm with you on the substance. but to mika's point, if we leave and chaos ensues and they flood back into avgs the argument will be who lost afghanistan. >> that's another part of the president's speech, to explain it's going to be a rough ride for the afghanistan people. but that would be the case if we left in 2021. that would be the case if we left in 2031. >> by the way, that's his message on the economy. why can't he do it on afghanistan? >> the thing is, us leaving this year or ten years from now, leaves the same realities on the ground. the same exact realities and every everybody knows it. >> joe, the question on the table is what was the objective in the first place? was it solely to get osama bin laden because we heard he was hanging out in caves in part of the region. or was it for a broader reason or stable iegz afghanistan and that question still on the table. >> as jon meacham has said here and he's exactly right, at some point an anti-terrorism campaign turns into an anti-insurgency campaign. and when it turned into the anti-insurgency campaign we got out of killing the bad guys and building a country. that was not've iraq. >> when they're running around with tar get on their backs. they spend weeks building schools and infrastructures that are going get blown up again. we're going to talk to senator mark warner of virginia and republican connie mack of florida. also larry king will be on set. >> there's going be a boxing match today between. >> larry king and sugar ray leonard. >> and a new politico playbook. we're going to look at the de-parr tur of austan goolsbee's departure from the white house. first a check on the weather with bill karins. >> all out heat. we're talking middle of the summer heat. you have to feel bad for the teachers in the dallasroom. now it's spreading to the east coast. get ready. temperatures today, 91 around d.c d.c., 93 in atlanta. by the time wednesday arrives we're still looking at hot conditions in chicago. finally it heads to the earn seaboard. get ready for one of the hottest days in a long time. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. too much on your plate? 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[ female announcer ] nourish plus. only from aveeno. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. and i can have a proposal to you within half an hour. we're a small business. with 27 of us always in the field, we have to stay connected. we use verizon tablets, smartphones. we're more responsive. there are no delays. delays cost money. with verizon, we do things quicker and more effectively. more small businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier because they know the small business with the best technology rules. the lame stream media jumped all over palin on the technicality that paul revere never rang any bells or fired any warning shots. that doesn't mean palin wasn't raising awareness of history. without her, no one would have checked into what actually happened. to prove what palin was right all along, her supporters went on wikipedia this weekend and edited the page to accurately depict her story. unfortunately the hard core fanatics of wick peady have undone the changes and locked paul revere's page. that's why i want all of you go to wikipedia's page for bells and report bels and say hey, you're not going to succeed in taking our guns. usa, usa. the housekeeper who accused dominique strauss-kahn has vowed to tell her story from the witness stand, this as the head of imf pleaded not guilty yesterday to sex charges. the other story, "financial times," saudi arabia has quietly been increasing its crude oil production, a sign that it's trying to bring down oil prices to more comfortable levels for consumers in the united states, europe, and china. that good news comes ahead of opec's meeting tomorrow whether they should. >> "the wall street journal." daniel malloy still has. appointed commissioners head the education. he says closing the budget is his top priority. that's a look at the news. >> let's go to the cat desk. to talk about that, willie geist. >> who do you got? >> who else to turn to? mr. patrick gaven down in washington with a look at the politico playbook. >> good morning, good morning. >> you sound a little sleepy. are you tired? >> no, i'm awake. >> don't complain to us. it's the wrong crowd. >> it's the baby. the baby's describing him crazy. >> that's what the deal is. >> what's the deal with austan goolsbee. he says he's going to leave the white house and return to teaching help says apparently he would have lost his tenure if he didn't go back now. what's the story there? >> believe it or not, i think that story does hold up, although some would love to speculate that he's leaving in the wake of unfortunate economic news. that's right. if he doesn't head back to the university of chicago, he'll lose that. he's been very much involved with the obama administration. two things to thinking about with regard to. this first, who they're replacing him with. austan goolsbee has been sort of an amicable and few funny and charming advocate and merger if a lot of the complicated white house policies. the white house has gotted mixed reviews on how they sell these policies. he's done a good job. number two, who are they going to try to replace him with? they're going to the academic community. they don't want somebody with strong ties to wall street but the reality is whoever they bring in will come under scrutiny from the u.s. senate and serve as a lightning rod for all the kplants about the economy. that person is going to have to field them. they're going to be v to be powerful and an explainer for what's going on. >> he kind of downplayed those jobs numbers. >> speaking of sunday appearance, it's remarkable newt gingrich's appearance on "meet the press." >> what do you know about this? newt gingrich kind of off the radar last week. what have you found? >> he's been found. for those of you who have insisted, i'm not from inside beltway, i'm not a beltway creature. >> he was found in his sunday best outside of the beltway. >> 5,000 miles away on a luxury cruise liner in the greek isles at $2,500 a pop. so his campaign is obviously not -- >> living large. >> not great way to kick off your presidential campaign. he says it's a much needed vacation. >> here's what you want to do. when you get in trouble for having a half a million revolving tiffany's account, what you want to do right away -- >> let me guess. a log cabin in i'd ho. >> that would be one option. another would be an extraordinary on land cruise through the greek isles. >> so it reminds people of aristotle onassis. that's how you damp down the story that you're actually not a populous man. >> you never know. you never know. >> he could be working on a homeless shelter, orphanage. >> you're at a town meeting and somebody may ask, what's your favorite greek aisle. n . now you can answer it. >> do you like mikanos. >> i love mikanos. >> stop it. >> no. he -- >> it's too easy. >> he campaigned really hard for a couple of weeks. this is a much needed rest. >> a grueling campaign trail. he need add break. >> he really wants it. >> i may do it one of these years, two weeks on, two weeks off. >> he gets that fire in the belly. >> kind of what "morning joe" was a few years ago. i'm not going to come in for a few weeks. >> is he back? is he in the country? >> i think you're right. the only fire in the belly is from the cruise. >> call inches bigger. all right. patrick gavin, thank you. >> thanks, guys. >> thank you. still ahead, we're going to be bringing you pennsylvania governor ed rendell. >> oh, dear. >> and "washington post's" eugene robinson. plus a hock fight in boston. hard knocks sends one to the hospital in game three of the stanley cup finals. boy, willie, they are so excited up in boston. people are leaving red sox games. be right back. [ manager ] you know... i've been looking at the numbers, and i think our campus is spending too much money on printing. i'd like to put you in charge of cutting costs. calm down. i know that it is not your job. what i'm saying... excuse me? alright, fine. no, you don't have to do it. ok? [ male announcer ] notre dame knows it's better for xerox to control its printing costs. so they can focus on winning on and off the field. [ manager ] are you sure i can't talk -- ok, no, i get it. [ male announcer ] with xerox, you're ready for real business. i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ and i'm feeling good [ female announcer ] join for free. offer ends june 18th. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. 31 past the hour. a live look at chiapitol hill. he sent inappropriate photographs of himself through the internet. nancy pelosi called for the probe after a news conference in new york yesterday where weiner admitted it. during his tearful remarks the congressman said he does not plan to resign. >> last friday i tweeted a photo of myself that i intended as a joke. once i realize id posted it to twitter, panicked. i took it down and said i had been hacked. in addition i've engaged in several inappropriate conversations over twitter, e-mail and occasion ollie on the phone. i've exchanged messages and photos with explicit nature with about six women over the past threee thre three years. i brought pain to those i care about about most. i am sorry and continue to by. i don't see anything that violated the rule os testify house or violated my oath to uphold the rules of the constitution. >> a lot of people asked whether he'll survive when he's up for re-election, but the must more relevant question for him at least in 2011 is what will his own house dep carats do with him. >>thy thank's the best question. >> they certainly are not standing behind him. >> that's the big question. he's going to come under, i think, a lot of pressure to resign in the coming days, especially in the story continues to have legs. >> because things are going very well for the democrats. they've got paul ryan's medicare plan to win elections with. you don't want any distractions. >> yes. look. the press conference yesterday was sad and a spectacle in certain ways but it opened up new lines for the press to pursue. and as we were talking off camera earlier, on one hand you've got the fact of being in new york, people say, you know, this is more survivable and that other places in the country because there's a higher tolerance for this thing. in new york, we're not easily shocked in new york. at the same time the press here is so much more relentless and vicious. other places in the country you would not -- this is not only a savage local press and the capital of the national press, so with the number of things that came up in the conference, in number of pieces of string, the press is going to go on for days, find these women, how many is it precisely, ask them questions, get details. as that plays out over the next few days, the level of pressure on him to go is only going increase and i nink he can survive the next seven days, he might well -- he might well survive and he might well win re-election, but the next seven days are going to be very, very hard for him. he's not -- anthony has gotten very popular over the last few years but way above his station by being so out there on cable, so out there. he's been very vocal, and a lot of democrats were resentful of him anyway for getting so much national attention. >> "the new york times" ran a story saying, willie, you didn't see a lot of democrats around him because of the resentment. usually what happens if you get in trouble, at least people from your own party, your own state stand shoulder to shoulder with you and they did don't that with anthony. >> it will be interesting as john said if he can survive his own party. the voters, constituents love their guys. charlie rangel got 80% of the vote. he'll survive his own district. >> i think he will. will he survive nancy pelosi? we've been talking about, democrats have a great chance to take back the house in 2012. this is now an internal matter with the democratic house caucus and i'm sure a lot of people there are going we've got republicans -- it's a loose rope around their ankle. you saw with nancy pelosi a desire to quickly remove as much of that rope as possible. if he, as do you said, survived the next several days keeps his congressional seat. but becoming the next mayor of new york, i do not see that happening. >> okay. let's move onto happier news. obviously these are sad stories, they really are. >> pitiful. >> whether it's eliot spitzer or john edwards or john anson or the congressman from upstate new york -- actually there are two from upstate new york, one democrat, one republican. i know a lot of these people and you really feel for their wife and their kids and their families. so i at least don't speak for everybody but certainly my thoughts and prayers are with anthony's wife and family members. it's just -- it's brutal. it is brutal. the mistakes that you make are played out on the front pages of newspapers and tv sets across america. and very little grace is given on either side and it's unfortunate. >> in the 24-hour news cycle you can't get before the media -- >> oh, my gosh. it was a feeding frenzy. >> you can't do that. >> to sports. >> let's move onto sports, willie geist. >> what a game last night. game three of the stanley cup finals. it was a brawl for two hours on the ice. bruins down 2-0 in the series to the canucks. back in boston last night. scary scene in the first period. laid out in a virs hit from aaron rome. the team said later that horton was able to move all of his extremities, thank goodness. rome was ejected from the game for the hit. play resumed with taunting. mark recchi attempts to shove his glove into matt la pierre's mouth. two big saves. a couple raymond. boston final strikes. andrew ference pours it on. 3-0. and then some more rough stuff. vancouver's alex burrows, watch this. he's going to get a jab to the grill. boston bullied the canucks. they were tired of getting punched around. bruins won 8-1. vancouver leads the series, two games to one. >> who start it? >> there was a bite in game one. >> seriously. >> it's been a rough series. >> playoff hockey. it's amazing. university of southern california's football team says it will return its crystal trophy it took down in the 2004 championship game against oklahoma in the orange bowl. they voted to strip usc of its title after an ncaa commission concluded that reggie bush and his family received in appropriate gifts. auburn and utah were both defeated. auburn came out --. think it's better -- let's just leave it. invalidate and leave it blank. role tie it. >> do you think there's any football team in the country -- is there any sport that's not rife with corruption? >> no. i think it's in is to go back and strip a school of improper payments to one player when we know it's happening everywhere. whether the school and the administrators know it it's happening at every major university. >> at least jim tressel took responsibility for it and resigned. others, not. >> i hope he comes back. this is kind of a sad story. dykstra, a guy you love, he's in los angeles jail charged with felony grand theft auto and drug possession. he used bogus nofgs lease expensive cars from a southern california dealership. the d.a. say dykstra used a laser printer to make fake paychecks. >> what kind of drugs? >> i could read that for you. shall i? >> yes. >> l.a. pchl d. police say they stumbled on a cache of cash, ecstasy and human growth hormone. >> that's a fun night out. >> it's not exactly grateful dead material. >> i loved him as a player. >> i loved him as a player. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. 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[ indistinct talking and laughter ] whew! i think it's worth it. working with a partner you can trust is always a good decision. massmutual. let our financial professionals help you reach your goals. we've got 16 months before the election, and nobody really knows precisely where we'll be then. the question is will we make progress? will people sense that we're making progress on this problem? i thank they will. all these republicans who are out there this weekend, the yammering about this are going to be under pressure to come up with their alternative strategies. welcome back to "morning joe." 44 past the hour. time now for the must-read opinion pages. >> i've got to say, john heilman, that is just one song. turn the music up. it never gets old. there are very few songs you can say that about. >> it's classic riff. such a nice -- >> before we get to the must-reads, a couple of polls to show you. the latest "washington post" abc poll shows the americans have a grim picture on the economy. 89% of the americans say they have a negative view while only a 11% hold a positive view. 57% also say the economy is not recovering versus the 42% who say it is. against that backdrop barack obama loses the bounce he got. 47% approve of the president while 49% disapprove. i've got two chosen here. the first from "the washington post." huntsman may not be able to overcome the obstacle of his anonymity, at least this time around, but he contributes a thoughtful competence to the republican field. while some seem to be running for a host position on fox news, huntsman appears to be running for president. >> michael steele, what do you think about huntsman? . like huntsman. i think he brings it to the table. i think he kind of breaks that mold. he comes in. he's got a connection to the administration, which i think in the long run will not hurt him. he understands from the inside the thinking of a lot of folks in the administration. that can serve him well in a race against the president and i think a lot of base activists are going to look at him a lot less critically because at the end of the day it's going to boil down to who articulates jobs. >> john heilemann, your partner in crime, mark hall prin saw him up in new hampshire. said he and his wife together were better than any political couple he's ever seen. >> since michael gurson is seen as an ultra conservative and not an evangelical spokesperson but is in that wing of the party, to hear him give that kind of endorsement at the mettle level, it's interesting. the fact that he's -- you know, will he be able to overcome his anonymity, of course, he will when the race gets joined and he starts advertising. his anonymity will be gone and he'll be nationally famous and that won't be an issue anymore. i think the think about huntsman is he is in a lot of ways showing already -- the big concern people have about him are two. one, he worked for the barack obama administration. michael says i don't believe that will be a huge problem for him. another is where he's been an apos tate on climate change. he's for cap and trade and civil unions. what he did last week a week after mark had seen him in new hampshire he went to washington for this faith and coalition thing that they gave. gave a strong social cultural conservative speech that was a huge hit. >> really. >> strong pro-life speech. went over extraordinarily well in a crowd of very, very serious christian right activists and he walked out of that room having done himself a huge favor. >> this may be how huntsman shocks the political world. i was wide open. it is wide, wide open, and if he can go to iowa, and i don't know. you say he's done well at walter reed's -- >> he's announced he's not going to compete. >> huntsman is not? >> he's not going to play there. >> if he can win iowa -- i'm saying they need to rethink their strategy -- iowa is wide open. if he's getting that sort of reaction there, i understand civil unions will be a huge problem for him, fwu if he iraqis auto win there, he has just trumped mitt romney comes to new hampshire and the huntsman express is on its way. agree with you. if you're huntsman, you don't want to fall into the rudy giuliani trap and say i'm going to leapfrog ahead and play here and here and ignore the opportunity that may exist for you if a place like an iowa. even if you come in second or third, get in where you started out, no-name imt d. if you can position yourself in way that you come out where people go did you see what happened, at least he's in third position. then that leapfrogging effect can have a greater impact down the road if you have something to start with. if you jump in this thing in new hampshire and -- >> that's the problem. if you jump in new hampshire and end up third and fourth, that's one thing. if huntsman took a chance on iowa -- remember michael duca kiss came in in >> it may be worth the thought. >> he's been a long-time opponent of ethanol. he said that's a deal breaker and why he skipd iowa. >> interesting. >> one very interesting piece of news yesterday on this front of michele bachmann. that is funny. there are a lot of people scared of going to iowa because they fear they'll lose against bachmann given her credentials and tea party credentials and is in iowa. >> she and mike huckabee were the only two in the organization and they won. >> what's coming up next? >> stephen colbert lamely stands up. somebody asks. ÷ a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it. major wow factor! where you book matters. expedia. that's why northern trust offers a full team of experts who work to understand your goals and help you achieve them. as one of the nation's largest wealth managers, northern trust's goals-based investment strategies are tailored to your needs. ♪ and overseen by experts who seek to maximize opportunities while minimizing risk. ♪ expertise matters. find it at northern trust. oh, yes. please tell me it's time. thank god. please, god. >> history lesson. >> she gave her version of the story of paul revere's ride. >> he who warned the british that they weren't going to be taking away our arms by reading those bills and making sure as he was riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells. >> thats with last week. >> i like when you call mika. >> right. >> let's listen to stephen colbert. >> so last night, stephen colbert bravely stepped up and took up the cause of sarah palin's version of the story. here he is. >> good. about time somebody defended her. >> muskets gun powder and a mechanical house. >> no one says it's implausible for revere to have ridden a horse while ricking a bell and firing moilt warning shots from a front-loading musket. all i can say is prepare to relive a historical reenactment. >> her we go. hey, hey, british, you, the british are coming. here's warning shot. okay. now, to warn the next town that the british are on their way, i just have to reload. i certainly hope paul revere was wearing a cup. >> he was. little known fact. paul revere was wearing a cup on the ride. >> lame stream media again. >> another gotcha question. >> he is so funny. >> what was the gotcha question again? >> i don't have one. >> how was your trip. >> >> how have you enjoyed this stop. >> seriously people need to stop. >> you're so liberal. >> still ahead, former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. and later senator mark warner, larry king, and sugar ray leonard. >> oh, boy. this saul very troubling. >> what a show. >> awkward. tell me about castrol gtx with trishield. it helps stop particles from building up as deposits. how? first it attracts particles. like a mermaid's song to a lonely sailor? right. then it captures them. like a venus flytrap. like a black hole. like a black hole in a venus flytrap. then it disperses them, like a t-shirt cannon. like a snowblower. like polyisobuta mides. okay, like a snowblower. sounds powerful. stops small particles. from becoming big problems. do you always&? yes. right. help stop deposits before they start with castrol gtx. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. [ man ] ♪ trouble ♪ trouble, trouble trouble, trouble ♪ ♪ trouble been doggin' my soul ♪ since the day i was born ♪ worry ♪ oh, worry, worry worry, worry ♪ [ announcer ] when it comes to things you care about, leave nothing to chance. travelers. take the scary out of life. welcome back to "morning joe." look at that shot. top of the hour. >> is that the gw. >> g.w. >> good shot. there's times square. >> gorgeous, right? >> gorgeous. >> joining the table former governor of pennsylvania and politico analyst, ed rendell. everybody was asking you about. >> everybody. >> everybody. >> best thing to be in politics is the guy who left office when everything hit the fan right after he hit the office because you become instantly popular. >> it was wild. >> almost revere. >> remember the good old days. back when rendell was governor, things were great. >> frank rizzo. every time somebody called in, he'd say, it wasn't like that when was mayor. i love that. >> so what do you write about this week in your sports column? >> this week i write about the triple crown in pennsylvania. people forget we hat afleet alex lead to the almost on aid stand and the great barbaro in 2006. all philadelphia area horses, all horses that had a great history. i wrote the -- i'm from tnot -- from the betting standpoint but the majesty of these animals. do you remember eight bells came in second and had to be put down. finished t finished the race, came in second, kornlted to gallop for 200 yards before she had to be euthanized. >> not from a betting point. i --. bet smarty jones in the desh by, the preakness, and i thinking i won about $400. i put it all across the board on the belmont. i didn't do it across the board. i did it to win. >> have you been out to the belmont? >> number i've been out to the belmont. i was at the derby. i was in las vegas for the preakness and a friend of mine hit the trifecta. needless to sate was an extraordinary weekend end. place my bets in an off-track betting parlor and they assume because i'm governor i have inside knowledge. they ask who do i like, dwho i like. this year in the preakness i liked shackleford. i bet on him. he led the race until the last 16th of a mile. the preakness is a 16th of a mile shorter. there are regulars out there who think i'm an f'ing genius. >> yes, you are. i love it. >> we went -- he would take us to horse races when we lived in upstate new york all the time. i'd be there like eight years old. >> with a racing form. >> rags form, learning how to read and pick up any of the tickets to see if someone threw away a winner? >> no. my mother would have slapped my hand. but i was there, 8, my brother, 16, my sister, 14. like the royal ten an bottomeki, tannenba tannenbaums. >> it's beautiful. oh call larks it's beautiful. we're going to start with the economy. it's worth revisiting with ed. the poll shows americans have a grim picture of the economy. 89% of the merges have a negative view of the economy while only 11% hold a positive view. 57% say the recovery is not coming and 42% say it is and of course the president losing the bounce that he got right after the killing on bin laden. 47% approve of the president. 49% disapprove. >> those numbers -- president's numbers will change quickly. the economic numbers may not change as quickly. governor, what's going on here? >> i can't figure it out because the news from the month before was terrific. over 260,000 private sector jobs added. revenues in states like pennsylvania, california, are way off the charts. pennsylvania is now 600 -- has a $600 million surplus now, projected to go even higher. so there is good news going on. manufacturing dipped this month but had almost 12 straight months of gains. there is good news and all of a sudden this month comes along. it's very confusing. i think the answer if you're president obama and his team, i think the answer is first you juxtapose where things were the month he took over. 750,000 jobs lost that first month he took over. where we are now, still gaining jobs, although very difficult. still gaining jobs. then ask the other size, what's your plan. do you remember when he ran for governor of new jersey. he gave everyone the income tax. they thought he was a dead loser. in his first debate he turn and said if we don't have the income tax where are you going to come up with the revenue. bateman had no answer and he won by 20 points. >> go ahead. >> i think the president's re-election effort is going to be so difficult if things do not start to turn up. i mean you're looking at a grim -- the last of the stimulus both from the tax cut deal a in the lame duck and the original bill essentially have run out by 2011. they were counting on 2011 being the year when we ramped up whaend the recovery got rolling so in 2012 things were headed in the right direction. you know, as you head into 2012. people say the republican field is weak. i keep saying it's not about which republican can beat oklahoma. the economy can beat obama in the end. if the unemployment is at 9% at the end and the country is on the wrong track which is now at 77%. i don't understand how you win that re-election. i think mitt romney can win that race, huntsman, pawlenty, in those economic, ises. it's going to be a very hard race to win against anybody who's not, you know, michele bachmann. >> mika, the bigger problem for the president is you can't do what most prbs would do. >> it's over. >> you can't cut taxes on the right, you can't spend trillions of dollars on the left. we're out of money and you've got a story -- >> right. you right about this in your politico piece but "usa today" reporting the u.s. has $62 trillion in debt. with machineries living longer, the government added $5.3 trillion on medicare and social security spending in 2010 alone. this coming as more than 100 house conservatives sign add letter to gop leaders with specific conditions they say need to be met before increasing debt ceiling. a house gop aide says the purpose of the letter is to describe steps that need to be taken by the senate and congress and five senate democrats up for re-election are urging vice president bide on the keep representative paul ryan's medicare plan out of the talks. nelson, cardin, brown, mccaskill and tester say it has to be moved off the table. moving on, we got this breaking news. the chairman of the economic advisers austan goolsbee says he's leaving the white house to return to his position. the announcement comes one day after he appeared on sunday's shows answering the question about the state of the economy's recovery. it marks the fourth high-profile member of obama's economic team to resign. >> really if the university of chicago is going to strip you of tenure if you decide to serve the president during these bad economic downtimes. i don't buy that. >> how many phone calls did you make to universities to say i need to keep this guy with me. >> i know they say there are no good universities in pennsylvania. >> that's not true. >> i would not -- >> i was joking. all i can tell you is that the same thing was true with larry summers at harvard, but i will -- austan goolsbee is enormous. he loves washington, d.c. he's not unhappy and they did not want to get him out. those are -- those are two facts. >> so what's the deal. >> don't you think austan goolsbee went to obama and said, mr. president, i want to stay, this is a battle over our future, would you call the president of the university? can that happen? >> i have no reporting of that, governor. let me ask you kwae. the if the president from the university of chicago got a call from the president of the united states and said will do you me a favor and let him sieve with me when america is at the worst state it's been like? >> the president falls like an accord on. >> exactly. these tenure stories cover up something else. >> yeah. i guess it beats "to spend more time with his family." we are snarky. we are snarky. >> i've done it. >> he's done it. >> this is what i meant. the presidents of those universities were a lot more inabout tame tim dated by you than the presidents of the universities at hartford and -- >> give me a break. john has absolutely no credibility now. let's duo back to the question we were asking before about the economy and the 2012 election. john seems to thing that nothing can beat something as long as that something, president obama, has 9% unemployment. do you believe with that? that a weak republican can beat a strong democrat? >> i think not for only one reasonful there's going to come a time during a presidential campaign where all of you know coverage is intent. they're going, okay, you blamed him. the only thing they're going to say is we would have cut taxes. it didn't work when president clinton did it. when they raised taxes, what happened in next eight years. >> president obama cut taxes. he extended bush's tax cuts for narn two years. >> $887 billion of spending. let me remind everybody, $350 billion of it was tax cuts. >> with all due respect, i think that's an oversimplification of what republicans will say. i think they're gearing up and next to president obama who's not worked a great sector, doesn't understand how you create private sector jobs. i think even somebody like tim pawlenty would do that. what would you do? he reeled off about five things. jon huntsman as well. seriously, trust me, the right republican candidate will have a quick answernd it won't be sort of the rote cut tax, cut spending, add freedom. jon huntsman, i dare say, will -- he will be are ready. >> listen. >> do you disagree with that? >> i don't think there is a good answer. i think there isn't a good answer right now. another answer that i would give joe is streamline regulations. i'm for steam lining regulations. i think we should do it. >> i think governor rendell is right. it is interesting. all the serious republican candidates is what they're going to want to run on. what's interesting is at this point mitt romney, tim pawlenty -- he's giving a speech in chicago, trying to lay out his platform, but not only is that not convincing, they do not have one. >> i think you're right. they will and they have to. but it's interesting. none of them have that as of yet given how central the economy is going to be to them, to what's going to make them electable. >> that's a great point, joe. if you had an answer, you'd come out with that plan. when i was governor, we were in a recession. i laid out a job plan for our cities in the area, big cities and rural cities. i laid it out chapster and verse because it was an issue. >> if the president had a big announcement about afghanistan, prance he could fold the messages together. >> to the governor's point in that speech you're talking about about today, pawlenty is speaking on in chicago, it will be o on tax cuts. >> we have a lot to get to. the great larry king, senator mark warden and sugar ray leonard. connie mack joining us as well. also eugene robinson. first let's go to bill karins with a check on the weather. >> unfortunately strong storms are making their way through ho and heading to pennsylvania. that's going to alive in ohio and northeast pennsylvania shortly. forecast today, we're dry from d.c. the rlg hot stuff, the dangerous stuff today, once again for minneapolis, chicago look at it. it's going to be humid pchlt 100 to 105. that is extreme heat from sloourks dallas, much oftax and all of that stuff is heading for the big northeast city on thursday. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ you know how i feel i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ freedom is mine ♪ and i know how i feel i never feel deprived. you know how freeing that is? ♪ it's a new dawn, a new day i feel good. i feel good. i feel good. ♪ and i'm feeling good [ female announcer ] join now for free. hurry offer ends june 18th. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. i think it's too hard to predict who's going to become our nominee. i thinking exclusively you have two people that end up battling it down the stretch. i don't know who they will be. i believe i'm going be one of those two and that i'll finally get the nomination. sarah palin is generating enthusiasm and interest in a campaign this year. that's a good thing. she has a lot of energy and passion, and bringing it to our race is positive for us. in a lot of respects it's the best thing that can happen for me. right now your greatest enemy is overexposure. people get tired of seeing the same thing day in, day out. 20 past the hour. representative connie mack. and in washington, pulitzer prize-winning columnist and editor and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. thank you for joining us. >> you were talking about the connie mack in our life. >> he was the great manager of the philadelphia a's and the manager -- >> was that your grandfather? >> great grandfather. >> and he made baseball what it is today. one of the most amazing things he managed in the dugout in a business suit and tie and hat. >> i was saying this because the uniforms were made of all wool. >> so, connie, we've been talking a bit about the debt. you look at the front page of the "usa today," united states owes $62 trillion. we owe $5 trillion more in 2010, added to the debt in 2010. these numbers don't add up. what do we do? we geesht a big showdown coming. >> let me show you what my big plan is. first of all, thank you for having me on. my plan is simple. e with cut 1% of spending every year for six years. in the seventh year we cap it. eighth year we balance the budget and after ten years we cut $10.5 trillion. i think about this. everybody is watching whether it's their home budget or business. they've had to take more than one penny out of their budget. all we're saying to the federal government is you can do the same thing. the american people have had to deal with this, the american people have had to make sacrifices. certainly the federal government can take one penny out of every dollar. >> is that one penny out of what's expected to be projected over the next ten years? >> we take the spending of this year. it's something like $3.8 trillion. we take 1% of that. so it's roughly $34 billion, $38 billion this year and roughly the same thing every year after that. yerk it takes out what the projected growth would be. you know how it is in washington. they talk about a cut in spending being a cut in growth. we're talking a 1% cut and it can happen in one of two ways. either the congress and the president will work together to make the requisite cuts. they'll find the places to make the cuts. if they're unable to do that, it will be an across-the-board cut. >> how do you account for inflation? >> that's the thing. we've taken the budget of this year. like i said, it's 3.8 trillion dollars or something like that. we cut 1%. next year we cut 1% off of that number. so we actually bring this curve down, the spending curve down. people -- i mean look at the headlines. people know we're in trouble. we have a fiscal nightmare ahead of us and if we don't get serious about cutting spending, we're not going to be able to pay our debts. what we've said, if you want to raise the debt ceiling there are a number of things we want before we'll vote for the that and one of those is my bill. >> hey, gene, connie just said americans know we've got to cut spending and we've got to cut the debt. they may say that in the polls. i don't think they do know that. i don't think they understand that even under the paul ryan plan, which has been branded as radical by the white house and democrats and by a lot of people in the media, the u.s. debt goes up $6 trillion over the next decade even under this supposedly, quote, radical plan. we're in big trouble. i don't think people understand it yet. >> i think people understand it in the abstract. it's when you get to the kron crete that it's a problem. it's always cut this program, don't cut mine. that's where the big question mark is. you know, it sounds great to cut a penny out of every dollar but it depends where you're going to cut it. are you going to cut it from the defense budget or the so-called discretionary spending which is really a small slice of the budget? where does it come out? >> but we do putting connie's specifics aside for a second though, doesn't it make sense for us to make cuts now even if -- even if it's a penny out of the dollar or however you want to say this? if we don't face up to this crisis soon, we're going have to make some draconian cuts five to ten years from now, don't we, if we make it that far? >> that's true, joe, but do do you it right now. you saw the economic numbers for this month. the economy is tries to struggle back to its feet. hopefully get back on an upward glide path. so is that when you want to be making cuts in government spending which, aftera all, is big contributor to the economy, like it or not. >> governor? >> he's right about two things. in pennsylvania they all wanted the budget to be cut. when corbett was true to his word, 98% of pennsylvanians said we don't want education cut to balance the budget. true to connie's plan is it is gradual so you don't have the effect on the economy as you would if you took it out all at one time. one of your colleagues has proposed a penny transaction tax, that every financial traction in the united states gets taxed a penny so when do you a credit card purchase, a penny goes to the federal government, maybe to a deficit reduction fund. a stock transfer. you buy stock, a penny. would you support that? >> no. >> why not. >> because we don't need more revenue. >> yeah, you do. >> no, we don't. >> yeah, you do. >> no, we don't. >> gene, speak up. >> people are tied of the federal government paying for things they don't want, they don't need, they don't deserve. aisle give you an example. amtrak, we spend $1.5 billion a year in subsidizing amtrak. the federal government -- >> governor, he's going right here with you go. ahead. >> there are corridors that amtrak is very successful. >> i agree with that. >> we agree with that too. >> but, look, there are areas of amtrak. >> absolutely. >> -- that people sitting at home say i don't want my money going to subsidizing that part of amtrak that's failing. >> you're absolutely right. there are parts of the budget that can be cut and eliminated. it's not our core function, but it's not enough. connie, every economist tells you you need to do deficit cuts but we need to increase revenue spending. we talk about afghanistan here. $2 billion a week, an endless war. isn't it time to start drawing down in afghanistan rapidly? >> let me say this. i would be in favor of defense cuts. i'm not one of these republicans that says -- everything has to be on the tachblt i don't remember who said it. the people in my district. they get this debt and deficit problem. they might not know what $6 trillion looks like compared to a hundred billion and they know we're broke. it scares them. they look at washington and say we've lost our homes, our jobs, we don't have the money to spend on food and clothing that we used to vanld you can't take one penny out of every dollar. >> >> so everything has to be on the table except for taxes and generating revenue. >> i say we generate revenue. >> everything's on the table. >> i everything's on the table. i don't believe we increase taxes. here's how we do it. you'd have a policy that talks about reducing taxes, reducing regulations. let the entrepreneurial spirit get back into the game. right now they're sitting on the sidelines because they're getting punished by government. >> gene, let me ask you this. you let out the al gore side. >> i heard it. i was with him. >> when the supply siegd talk began. so here's the $46,000 question, gene. how do we come up with a budget deal that will allow us to raise the debt ceiling, that will give the spending cuts that connie mack is going to demand to vote for it and it's going get the revenue increases that chock la fatah is going to demand. we're going have to come up with a pretty grand compromise to raise the debt ceiling and people are going to have to support things that people don't want to support. do we get there? >> nink you put ed rendell and connie mack in a room, you'll probably come out with somebody and people can be reasonable. i think the idea of a spending cut that's gradual as opposed to all at once, i think that's probably right. i do think revenue's got to be on the table. this is a -- this is a big country, and taxes are at fairly near historic lows. and so put everything on the table. look in terms of a gradual path to a better fiscal balance. you know, there e's room for solution there if people would sit down and talk about it. >> all right. >> kngman connie mack, thank you very much for being on the show. >> you sort of got the support of ed rendell in there. sort of. >> everything has to be on the table, connie mack. >> okay. >> connie mack wants to regulate your taxes. >> thank you. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." this past year alone there was a 93% increase in cyber attacks. in financial transactions... on devices... in social interactions... and applications in the cloud. some companies are worried. some, not so much. thanks to a network that secures it all and knows what to keep in, and what to keep out. outsmart the threats. see how at cisco.com cisco. @ a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it. major wow factor! where you book matters. expedia. welcome back to "morning joe." u.s. commanders are focusing on what may be their most dangerous mission left in iraq, getting last 46,000 troops out safely by the end of the year. the withdrawal is part of a security agreement signed by both countries as the american military wraps up eight years in iraq. commanders say insurgents are already stepping up their efforts to kill u.s. troops in order to take away any resolve to leave soldiers in the country and to claim credit for pushing them out. as forces begin to withdraw, they've been given out cash payments of $10,000 a month to tribal leaders to pick up trash along the pathway and to ultimately make it harder for militants to hide bombs along their exits. >> i know where we need to go. these men and women in iraq for eight years have fought under the worst of circumstances. political call divisions at home almost unprecedented over eight years. and yet what an extraordinary job they have done in extraordinary difficult circumstances. and i'm tough on petraeus for what he wants to do in afghanistan over the next decade, but my god. the vision he had for the surge. people forget how grim it was, the sectarian violence starting in february of 2006. you know, governor, it may not be inchon, but it was remarkable turn around that david petraeus commandeered. once again the men and women of the armed forces who do that under the worst of circumstances, you can't say enough. >> it's true. i talk to the around guards. they say, we're doing this, we're doing that, the media doesn't cover it and we're actually making a difference. i hope they're right. i hope three years after we're're out, iraq is a free democracy. >> coming up next, we have senator mark waern, keep it right here on "morning joe." [ man ] ♪ trouble ♪ trouble, trouble trouble, trouble ♪ ♪ trouble been doggin' my soul ♪ since the day i was born ♪ worry ♪ oh, worry, worry worry, worry ♪ [ announcer ] when it comes to things you care about, leave nothing to chance. travelers. take the scary out of life. ♪ you know how i feel i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ freedom is mine ♪ and i know how i feel i never feel deprived. you know how freeing that is? ♪ it's a new dawn, a new day i feel good. i feel good. i feel good. ♪ and i'm feeling good [ female announcer ] join now for free. hurry offer ends june 18th. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. . i hear the u2 concert ended last night incredibly. >> bonow dedicated "beautiful day" to gabby giffords who said she wanted that song to be the wakeup song played for her husband when he was on the shuttle. as he introduced the song and introduced it, they cut to a wide shot of gabby giffords' husband aranging cards. he says, to my wife gabby -- so she knows. >> i hate to ruin a good story but the shuttle land add week ago. >> it was on taped feed. >> i'm sorry. i don't mean to be that catty. >> you're that guy. >> you are that guy. willie. i was about to cry. >> how nice. i'm glad you quoted that last part, david bowie. >> thank god he didn't used the words from space odyssey, that wouldn't have been appropriate. >> full of it. democratic senator from virginia, a guy who can't tell the truth when he's on top. we speak, of course, of a member of the budget committee, senator mark warner. senator we're having you here under the condition that you don't lie about foods that are placed in front of you on top chef. how are you in. >> i'm doing all right. i was really getting into the story though it was a buzz kill when you said it had actually been record add week earlier. you go with the whole story and -- >> a stickler and buzz kill. >> you can't get anything past those guys from new york magazine. and so the mets, they won the world series and beat the red sox. 1986. thank thanks, heilmann the front page of the "usa today" the united states owes $62 dtrillion. what do we do, senator? what do we do? >> i've got tell you, joe, it's like we're watching this movie in slow motion, rushing for the cliff in the "thelma & louise" movie. you take the number that the government owes and we're adding $14 million a day. we look at the bad employment numbers. the only thing we can get to jump start the economy and get part of that $2 trillion in cash sitting on corporate balance sheets off the sideline is to put a long-term deficit reduction plan in place. we're seeing moody's and s&p go out there and do the downgradings. this is the most predictable financial crisis we'll ever face and in the meantime the congress man is going through the kind of show bet. th boat. that's why i thinking the group of five or six that we've been working on for months and months, we've got to get out there. >> it's like the hurricane that's been coming to the shore. there's defer station. so what do you guys do to move it forward. >> what do you do in the gauge of five or six? >> i was disappointed about two weeks ago when senator coburn decided to take a break from the group. i thought the final final remaining differences were small. we had 54 senators a couple weeks ago that sent us an attaboy letter. we're going to talk to some hoff those additional senators to try to move this from a gang to a horde or a mob to say here's plan that would oop try to knock off $4 million. it wouldput us on the right trajectory. probably there will be parts of it everybody will dislike. how do you go after some of those entitlement programs. >> republicans riaren't going d that. they're going to say rng we're not going to touch that. democrats are going to say we're not going to touch that. how do you pull those people together without them getting killed from their base at home? >> listen, jim. at some point they'll do everything. we've tried everything else. i think the plain numbers will for us to kind of get out of our fox holes. you can't get there without looking at the revenue side and clearly there's way to do it where you can lower tax rates and cut back on tax expenditures. there's no way we can maintain the viability of some of these programs unless we recognize changing demographics, the fact that people are living longer and medical costs are higher. we've got to find a way to meet the obligations. that means cutting back on some of what we're spending. if we continue to have this debate around this lit 182%, we're up the creek. >> that's it. we're not going to do it. >> listening to connie mack earliering do we think we can get both sides to agree because every time we hear everything is on the table we hear everything is on the table but this or that. what joe just said wlrk it's taxings for the republicans. >> i have a lot of respect for what senator warner and his four colleagues are trying to do but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of optimism coming out of the group. you said you were going to try to turn yourself into a hoard but i'm not sure i've seen any evidence -- >> how do you do that. >> any evidence that suggests you're about to gain that momentum, i'm afraid. >> you have a lot of colleagues. i think it's incumbent upon us to go ahead and share some of the details of this plan with other members, you know, see -- recognize that we don't have a perfect product but we've got to get in this fight because right now the two kind of polar opposites of let's bury our head in the sand and pretend that we can have a one-side-only solution, that's not going to get us to the finish line. if we limp through a debt vote without a long-term plan, i'm not sure what the bond markers are going to do. one thing will kill our jobs. 10% interest rate. >> keep going. >> thank you very much for being on the show this morning. good to see you. >> be nice, joe. >> it's great. sear usually the work you're doing is so important and we're going to get a deal at the end hopefully. >> tough going. thank you, senator. >> thanks, guys. up next, one of the greatest boxers of all time, sugar ray leonard is here with a story of his life in and out of the ring. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. uh, laugh lines? 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[ pop ] the rabbit aerating pourer aerates your wine right in the glass, to improve its flavor and bouquet. the rabbit wine preserver vacuum-preserves your wine with a gauge that shows you the vacuum. open, serve, and preserve your wine with rabbit wine accessories by metrokane. let me buy you guys a drink. >> a cold one? >> no, no, no, a plane to catch next time. next time. >> making a movie on me. can i call ya? i'm going to get a fight, you be there old times sakes. you can comment tate. >> what is the movie about? >> my comeback. >> i'll call ya. >> call me. >> we will call you. that was legendary boxer sugar ray leonard with a cameo in last year's movie "the boxer." the world champ, olympic gold medalist joins me about his memoir "the big fight, my life in and out of the ring." good tough here. >> welcome. >> just commenting, 55 years old, a guy who took shots to the face for a living, you look like you never got touched? >> makeup artist is pretty good. >> it is the makeup. >> so so much talk about in this book. i think fight fans will want to talk about some of your great rivalries. what do you remember about the no mas fight? >> it was historic for me, because of who sang "america the beautiful" is ray charles. my name sake is ray charles leonard. i met him in the ring so confident i would win the rematch. when aid chance to meet ray charles, i could could have beat the world. unbelievable. >> durant didn't have a chance and famously turned to referee aft a earth eighth round? >> i believe. yes. and said no mas. they say they -- they say he said "no mas" but i knew he indicated he didn't want anymore and the referee indicated that was t so apparently, that was the end of the fight. >> where does he rank, durant, among the toughest guys you fought, you fought some of the toughest, duran, hagler and hearns? >> duran was never given credit to be a boxer so smart, such a tactician in the ring. as far as punching ability, duran ranks number second, tommy helpers number one. duran was number two, as far as power was concerned. incredible fighter. >> what kind of relationship? i always wondered, do fighters have? did you know tommy helpers well, hang out behind the scenes, maybe got to know each other later after your careers? >> we became friends after our careers had ended and he calls me periodically on my cell phone, ray, how you doing? hey, tom mir, how much do you weigh? i said why? >> you guys get along well after all these zbleefrmts we are friends. you write in your book yourself being your biggest competitor what do you mean by that and what did you learn about yourself looking back on your life and putting this together? >> the most difficult person to deal with is yourself because we don't always tell ourselves the truth. and when i looked in the mirror, years later, i saw a person, an individual that i wasn't. because of the alcohol, because of the drugs, a number of things, my revelation about sexual abuse to two people, individuals i trusted, i kept that inside of me, i suppressed that for 30 years, i never told anyone, except i told my first wife, juanita. she didn't know how to handle that she just looked at me. what do you say to me? what can she say to me? what can anyone say to me? i dealt with that i married my present wife, bern nah debt, and i mention it had to her one day. and she looked at me and the same thing, she didn't know what to say. what do you say to a person -- how do you calm that person down? how do you console that person? and i just dealt with that for so long until one day, i realized that there were people coming out saying what had happened to them and i did that. i saw todd bridges, i believe it was who revealed his experience and i mention this in the book and it was weight off my shoulders. it was something -- pain that i had dealt with for years in my heart. and i drank and i did drugs and everything that proved to be a temporary bandage -- band-aid, i should say. now i feel better. i mean, is it gone totely? no. it is still there. >> never goes away. it never goes away. >> one of the headlines out of your book, when you were an amateur i guess the story goes, trainers, even a promoter perhaps sexually abused you. >> well, they asked me whether i had mentioned the name. you know what these two individuals are dead. they had families. and i don't -- you know, that became a part of my life. it's not my life and i moved on. well, i'm trying to move on. >> governor, you're a fight fan. >> ray on a happier note, i thought you were one of the greatest athletes of all time, not just a fight, boxer, but a great athlete. did you ever play any other sports? >> you know what i think the basketball, the football were too dangerous. i was too small. i was never chosen as a teammate and boxing became a part of my life at 14. my brother, roger, took me down to the gym. and i was so quiet, introverted but boxing was a sport i could control i could control my mano-a-mano, i could control the guy. no teammates. >> what do you make of the fight game now, people lament the fact there is no big-name heavyweights no mike tyson out there but some great fighters lighter weights. >> there are great fighters, no question about that pacquiao being one of them and may weather but there is not an abundance of tall n various weight classes like there used to be, joe frazer, muhammad ali, tommy hearns, roberto duran. these are person eighth he is, these are guys who will fight the champion, fight the best, pound for pound. because these guys today, they don't necessarily fight the best fighters, pound for pound. >> got ask, because we sought clip at the beginning from "the fighter". dickey he can lund, did he he knock you out or you slip? >> i slippeded. i slipped. >> depends how ask. >> i slipped. >> never laid a glove own, right? >> dick was to you. dickey was tough. >> did you enjoy making that movie, was it fun? >> so surreal, deja vu. i loved it and christian bale, a amazing, amazing. >> champ, it's great to have you. it is so nice to might. >> congratulations on the book. sugar ray leonard. the book is "the big fight, my life in and out of the ring." thank you so much for being here. >> thanks. up next, former rnc chairman michael steele and later, the great larry king joins us on this set. we will be right back. too much on your plate? no matter when you get around to booking, hotels.com will have a great last minute deal waiting for you. like at the hotels.com 48 hour sale. this tuesday and wednesday only. hotels.com. be smart. book smart. [ woman speaking chinese ] thank you. do you have an english menu? no english. [ speaking chinese ] [ gasps, speaks chinese ] do you guys like dumplings? i love dumplings. working with a partner you can trust is always a good decision. massmutual -- let our financial professionals help you reach your goals. at 190 miles per hour, the wind will literally lift ordinary windshield wipers off the glass. so, did we build a slower car? or design wipers that could handle anything? what do you think? the cadillac cts-v, the world's fastest production sedan. we don't just make luxury cars, we make cadillacs good morning it 18:00 on the east coast, as you take a live look at manhattan. back with us on set, we have new york magazine's john heilemann and the former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. >> this is big. there's so much news today. >> my lord. >> we do have breaking news. sir walter jones, walter has been, michael steele, walter jones has been an anti-war republican for some time. >> some time, yep. >> and not like he is in san francisco. i mean, his district has got camp lejeune. what he has found is a lot of his constituents now are supportive of the fact that we are too extended. we need to bring our troops home. we fought enough wars for other people. >> and i think that's the sentiment that's growing nationally and certainly even within the ranks of the republican party now, you are hearing more of our people talk about, well, maybe we have done enough and it's time to bring them back. of course. >> i have gotten in trouble for saying this a year ago. >>, did you you said it a year ago. we have been saying it for a couple of years as well. and what we found is the american people have caught up. >> yeah, they have. >> they want our troops to come home and looks like members of congress are starting to catch on. >> i think the president is going to say something more about that today. >> we have that coming up. but first there is breaking news out of libya this morning, explosions reportedly shaking the area around moammar gadhafi's compound in tripoli. a column of gray smoke could be seen following the blast, the latest in air strikes on the libyan cap at that time. it is reportedly in the vicinity of gadhafi's residential compound hit several times in recent weeks. earlier, libyan state television showed images of destroyed buildings and satellite vehicles planning a different nato air strike that hit its facilities in tripoli but nato said they did not target or hit the libyan broadcast facilities but rather headquarters in downtown tripoli for military intelligence. now, what we were talk about president obama says he will soon be making an announcement about the number of troops he plans to withdraw from afghanistan. after meeting with his national security team yesterday earthquake the president that the u.s. has already accomplished large parts of its mission in the region. >> by us killing osama bin laden and getting al qaeda back on its heels, stabilizing much of the country in afghanistan so the taliban k take it over, it's now time for us to recognize that we've accomplished a big chunk of our mission and that it's time for the afghans to take more responsibility. >> despise the success, the president says forces have made so far the top two military commander, general david petraeus and robert gates won't exactly commit to answering whether the u.s. is actually wing the war. >> we are making progress. they will try to come back though and that's why we say that these gains, while significant, are fragile. >> and we have not had a declared victory in a war, with the possible except eggs of the first gulf war, since world war ii. it is the phenomenon of modern conflict. are the american people safer at the end because of the sacrifice these soldiers have made? that's the real question. >> gates ended his farewell tour yesterday by telling u.s. and international forces they are on track to delivering decisive blow to the taliban. he now heads to brussels on nato meetings on the way forward in afghanistan and libya it all comes as the latest "washington post" abc news poll shows 43% of americans now say that the afghan war is worth fighting compared with 31% in march, however, nearly three in four americans say that the u.s. should still remove a substantial number of u.s. combat forces from afghanistan this summer. >> all right. so what's going on here, john mileman? you have got obviously the white house sending signals to the press saying we are going to get out. we are going to bring significant numbers out, you have petraeus and gates and others inside the military community suggesting otherwise? >> i think, first of all, always been the care the military has been -- i don't want to say more pro-war or pro-surge, but they want to make sure this mission gets done and more conservative throughout how to manage the draw down. i think there's also a political thing going on, bob gates is trying to give obama maximum room to operate within -- within a spectrum of possibility, which is to say the politics of this are pretty strongly for greater -- faster drawdown. >> but gates is giving him -- >> gates is giving him cover to push -- to give him room to steer towards a slower -- >> secretary of defense and general petraeus have told me, we need to keep the troop there is. michael steele -- >> do that as long as they tell me they need those boots on the ground but the overall thrust of pulling our troops out is still the primary goal of the mission and we will continue in that vein until we get -- >> won't jeeps be saying that in ten years? i mean, that's jones' jobs a lot of people think i'm critical of jones when i'm saying they want to push it to another decade, that's their job to achieve the military objective. it's the president's job, the komgd commander in chief's job to figure out when the cost of achieving that military objective is too high. >> i think that goes where you're saying, where the president finds himself now is caught between the jones and his people. the overwhelming sense is the polls are showing people are losing less interest in having folks stay there having servicemen and women stay there what is the mission? okay, we got osama bin laden. okay, the number of casualties is greatly reduced from before, even though we have had some unfortunate cash shut nist the last couple of weeks so, he is kind of call the in this political vortex of trying to balance these two competing worlds now. >> look that the "usa today" headline, the united states owes $62 trillion. try explaining to a voter in iowa, in western iowa, why we should be spending $2 trillion a week -- >> $2 billion. i'm sorry, $2 billion a week. >> a week. a week. >> $2 billion a week in an afghanistan war that could go on another decade? nobody wants to spend that money there. >> it's been interesting. >> we get osama bin laden. there's only 50 members of al qaeda left in the entire country. why are we there? >> very interesting to watch some people now make the economic argument, maybe they haven't made ground other ways, get out of, a we don't have the money, we can't pay for it any more. the polls michael just referenced is interesting, support for the war is up 12% from match that 31%, now at 43, yet three quarters of americans say we should get substantial numbers of troops out this summer. >> and more americans still think the war's not worth fighting than worth fighting. and it is another recent phenomenon, very recent phenomenon is ever seeing poll numbers upside down like that. vietnam didn't flip until the very bitter end. >> i think it goes, joe, still for a lot of folks, what is our anything what has been our rigs in for the last ten-plus years? and that question has fundamentally not been answered? >> no. it hasn't -- >> i think. >> and isn't that something too? ask politicians all the time, i want to move to the next story but this is such a critical point, we ask politician all the time, what's objective, what's our end game? we have been there for a decade, right? we have had two presidents, george bush, loves to when it began and barack obama, who tripled the number of troops there. neither one can articulate clearly what -- why our troops are there right now. they can't do t most of the time people sputtered at pakistan. so we are fighting in afghanistan because of pakistan? >> that question comes to the table again and again and again and i said earlier a couple of days ago it really hit home when with the only afghan university president in this country doesn't understand our mission there and i was talking to him at a graduation. but i think the question now is not why are we there? we need to get out. how? how? nobody can answer that either. >> right. right. >> and i think it's great to be on a soap box and say we are against this war, it doesn't make any sense, we have no objective, i think we are clear on that how in the world to get out though? >> how do you get out? >> who has the guts to do that? >> you draw down. >> i don't think it is that simple what got you into trouble? >> when we leave what are we leaving behind? what's gonna be there? after ten years 11 years, 12 years of struggle there loss of life, a lot of money, what is the state of afghanistan relative to the rest of the region? >> and also say that michael made this point before about how the president is caught between the polls and his generals, there's another factor, right, which is the republican candidates and his party. if you think about just the raw politics of this. if a dramatic, rapid drawdown starts this summer if obama goes faster than people have been expecting and the country rapidly descends into chaos and violence, you know you are going to hear from whoever the republican nominee is -- >> of course. >> i'm just saying. >> of course. >> the republican party will be all over him about how he was the president who lost afghanistan after george w. bush fought it veil yantly. >> what we have been saying around the table here for some time, our troops are still there, fighting and dying and americans are still spending $2 billion a week on an endless war, not for military reasons, but for political reasons. neither party wants to be the party blamed for losing afghanistan. >> okay, but how do you lead, you tell me. how do you leaded by saying, this isn't working, we got to cut our losses? we just got to get out? >> oh, no, it's serious -- >> what president. it's about winning. it's always about winning in america. >> guess what -- >> what are we win? >> here's what you do ten years ago, we were attacked. >> that's right. >> we were attacked brazenly and the base of operations, al qaeda's base of operations were afghanistan. 3,000 americans died that die and our troops were sent over there to do one thing and one thing only, to hunt down and kill al qaeda. and guess what, we've done that. we have destroyed their base of operations. we hear that only 40 or 50 members of al qaeda are scattered across a nation as large as texas. is that right, willie? you're our geography expert. and the president can say that. and then i double-down, efforts kill osama bin laden. we have achieved our goals. it is time to give afghanistan back to the afghanistan people and it is time for the united states of america to rebuild here at home instead of halfway across the globe. >> sounds good. >> 90% of americans support that. >> joe, i'm with you on this i'm with you on the substance here but to mika's point, you know if we leave and the country desneensd chaos and al qaeda comes flooding back into afghanistan over the course of a year, again, this argument of who lost afghanistan, that -- >> that is a great argument -- the speech to explain it is going to be a rough ride for the afghanistan people, but that would be the case if we left in 2021. that would be the case if we left in 2031. >> by the way, that's his message on the economy. why k county he do it on afghanistan? >> the fact is us leaving this year or ten years from now leaves the same realitieses on the ground, the same exact realities and every be knows. >> but joe, the question still on the table is what was the objective in the first place? was it solely to get osama bin laden because we heard he was hanging out in a cave in some parts of afghanistan or there was a broader mission to bring stability to region by stabilizing afghanistan? and that question is still on the table. >> as jon meachum has said here, and he is exactly right, at some point, an anti-terrorism campaign turned into an anti-insurgency campaign. >> right. >> and when it turned into an anti-insurgency campaign, we got out of the business of killing bad guys and got into the business of building a country. building a country that had never been built before. it is not like it was even iraq. so, at that point, that's when we have -- >> that might have been the mistake. >> women running around with targets on their back, trying to fix water treatment plants and getting their heads blown off their shoulders. and americans spending $2 billion a week building schools and an infrastructure that will get blown up again. >> when we come back, how france helped sparked generations of american genius. pulitzer prize-winning journalist david mccullough takes us on a journey to the late 19th century when some of the brightest minds in america migrated to paris. also this hour, larry king joins us on set. but first, let's go to bill karens with a check on the forecast. bill? >> well, mika in cleveland, ohio, the skies are getting dark, the lightning is flashing over lake erie and it's heading your watch severe thunderstorm warnings for the cleveland area, up interstate 90, strongest of those storms only a couple minutes away, rolling through shortly, if you are in the cleveland area, south of akron, stay in your house if you can, another half hour, let these storms blow on through. today's forecast, storms will make their way to pittsburgh. going to be storm-free from d.c. to philly to new york but going to start getting a little hotter. take a sneak peek at thursday, 96 and near 100 degrees in the big cities of the east. all the heat the middle of the country that's going to slide east in the next couple of days, but today, one of the hottest, most uncomfortable locations will be chicago. high temperature about 98 in the singles all the way down to texas. you are watching morning joe, brewed by starbucks. 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[ children shouting ] [ grunts ] [ whacking piñata ] [ whacking piñata, grunting ] welcome back to "morning joe," 20 past the hour. live look in capitol hill, joining us now on the set in no pulitzer prize-winning journalist and author of the new book "the greater journey, americans in paris," david mccullough. good to have you on the show. >> good morning, thank you. >> david, you know what's so fascinating about this we always hear about americans who were in paris in the 18th century, as this country was being formed. we hear about the ex-pats in the 1920s and the 1930s, literary giants. you actually show a part of this story that we really haven't heard that much about how paris shaped some of the brightest american minds of the 19th century. >> which is why i was drawn to t not much had been done about it and the cast of characters is so infinitely interesting, how they came home changed by the experience what they brought back in either a literal or a figurative way they changed us. right. who were some of the americans -- >> go through the cast. >> one of the more obvious big changes was samuel fd morris who got the idea for the telegraph while he was in paris. in paris as a painter, studying painting, working on his painting and creating one of the great master peeves his career, the gallery of the louvre, which is going to be on exhibit at the national gallery this summer. but while he was there he had the idea for the telegraph and when he went back to patent it in france, he sought first photograp photographs. he brought home three separate events of major consequence. charles sumner, the great voice of abolitionism, saw black students treated at the sore upon, was treated like everybody else, he decided the way we treated black people here was wrong, wasn't part of, as he said, part in order of things, came home determined to do something about it and almost at the cost of his life, because he was the one who was almost beaten to death by congressman preston bush. >> and mark twain? >> mark twain was with a group of people traveling and it was working on -- his travels would result in his innocence abroad which was the most popular novel he ever wrote. he was there but briefly. he has a walk-on, joe, so to speak in my book. >> that's okay. mark twain that's what you need. that's what you need. >> i hate to keep going through the cast, oliver wendell holmes, truly great justices in the history of american jurisprudence. >> that was not him. it was his father. oliver wendell holmes seen york the great poet, essayist, started the magazine "atlantic monthly," devoted his entire professional career to medical science, saw nothing incongress grew white house about that being both a poet and physician. taught at harvard medical school more than 35 years. what they learned in paris as medical students was so far ahead of anything available here, when they came home, they -- many of these medical student, american medical students transformed american medical education and thus transformed american medical care. tremendous, tremendous influence and effect. could i have written a whole book on just the experience of those medical students. keep in mind, they didn't speak a word of french, french wasn't taught in schools here, or colleges and universities. so, they are plunged into medical school training in a language they can't speak. and yet they did it. i never found -- there are probably 150 or so of them a year. over a period of time, well over 1,000 of these students, i found no example of any of them that quit that said, oh, this is not what i bargained for, i'm going home. not one. >> talk about the bigger connection between america and france, because we focus so much historically between our connection with great britain but there is this underlying -- >> the french connection, full is much greater than people realize. >> right. >> after all, we have a country whose capital was designed by a frenchman. we more than doubled the size of our country with the louisiana purchase. we -- emblematic welcoming symbol at the gateway of new york, the statue of liberty, a gift from france. if you look at the a map of the united states, small towns, big cities, rivers, colleges, universities, all with french names, not just by chance. >> and we might not be a country were it not for the help of the french and the revolution. >> exactly right, ed, because as most people don't realize, they not only financed the -- our revolution, but their army was here, playing a decisive part. the army at the surrender of cornwallis at yorktown was larger than walks's army. >> that right? >> yeah. >> so david, why did you go in this direction? this is a little -- i'm excited you did, the second i saw the book, i had to pick it up and buy it, but this is a little off your beaten path as far as what you write b. >> is part of what i've loved most of my life, since i was 10 or 12 years old, and music, article, theater and i also feel that history is much more than just soldiers and politicians. it may be hard to believe. >> yes, i know. >> but as you know, some ancient civilizations we only know because of their art, their architecture. >> right. >> and to me, mark twain, george gershwin, will are all as impors anybody else and that should be included and i wanted to do something to bring them into the tent. >> i like t finally, i should mention the first american woman to become a doctor, elizabeth blackwell. >> one of the most remarkable americans ever who was determined she would become a physician and she went to paris to study and contracted an eye disease which prevented her from becoming a surgeon so she came back here to new york and founded the first women's hospital in america. >> amazing. david mccullough, thank you. the book is "the greater journey." go to our website you joe.msnbc.com to get an excerpt. it looks incredible. thank you so much for being on the show. >> i appreciate the chance to be with you. thank you. >> bill, this morning, we have larry king standing by in the green radio. and up next, a check on business before the bell, live from the new york stock exchange. don't go away. too much on your plate? no matter when you get around to booking, hotels.com will have a great last minute deal waiting for you. like at the hotels.com 48 hour sale. this tuesday and wednesday only. hotels.com. be smart. book smart. nce companies you're just a policy. at aviva, we're bringing humanity back to insurance and putting people before policies. aviva life insurance and annuities. we are building insurance around you. i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ and i'm feeling good [ female announcer ] join for free. offer ends june 18th. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. the obama administration plans to replace the much-maligned food pyramid with just a plate. a plate? for food? what's connection? americans don't use plates anymore. our food comes from cases, bags, cans, tubes and envelopes made of themselves. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> say hi to larry king. >> you are so big. so big. >> get a check on business before the bell, cnbc's tyler mathisen. getting serious here, tyler, he is leaning forward. >> they are perched on his nose. like gibson talking to sarah palin. >> i'm telling you, he is leaning forward. >> i'm leaning forward. that's right. >> you're leaning forward. >> i am leaning forward. >> yeah, but we're not. go for it bay bharks do you got for us? >> i tell you, another one of the president's top economists has announced his intention to leave. >> what's that about tyler? >> this time, austin goals business a profess terror at the university of chicago the story is he wants to go become and teach so that he doesn't lose his tenure. >> we he don't buy that tyler. >> well, you gotta figuring your that there would have to be some way they could have work it had out so this guy could stay in the office if he wanted to. >> got chicago wired. got chicago wired. >> only been in the job nine moment. his predecessor christina romer also went back to a tenured position in ac deem ya, just like larry. what is it with these guys in academia? there they are. went back to professorships. peter orszag did not. jared bernstein, who was the chief economic adviser to vice president bind, he left as well, jared, presumably, went took jared's to buy some jewelry, who knows? any rate this all comes, guys, in the wake of some disappointing economic news, which i don't have to tell you about, and this morning, a poll in the "washington post" indicating that about three out of five americans don't even believe the economy is recovering. about nine out of ten americans have a negative view of the economy and about 45 -- about 60% give the president a very -- very negative marks on his handling of the recovery. at the same time, those people polled in this "washington post" poll said 45% of them now give -- trust the republican gop congress to handle the economy better than mr. obama, who comes in at 42%. so the economic numbers make you wonder why all of these economic advisers are leaving to go become to the comfy confines of ac deem yament not. doubt. then this old story, governor rendell, they are going to be stripped of their tenureship if they don't rush home. come on the i don't believe t mika doesn't believe it. come on, man. >> you believe it. >> okay. you don't believe it either? what do the futures look like? >> the futures look a little bit positive. we have had four days shall as you know, of negative number the stock market. but right now, indicating a much higher open for the s & p and the dow. maybe we break the losing streak. let me suggest you read one article today in the "wall street journal" it is the obituary of felix alexanderman, he was a holocaust survivor who spent 18 months in a -- under the floor boards of a house in what was then pole land. went on to found very shea internet technology and became a billionaire. interesting story on days when we hear about a lot of people who aren't behaving themselves this is a genuine american hero. >> tyler, thank you so much. >> thank you very much. >> leaning forward. >> lean forward, baby. and we will just kind of lounge back. >> lounge back. >> we will slouch back. thank you very much, tyler. we appreciate it. >> oh, lordy. >> this is just big. i don't know what -- this is huge. >> epic. >> temperature just right. >> this is like sinatra at madison square garden. larry king is with us and he joins us on the set, straight ahead. >> drinking his starbucks. as much as i can about a company before i invest in it. that's why i like fidelity. they give me tools and research i can't get anywhere else. their stock screener lets me search for stocks with more than 140 criteria. i can see what their experts are thinking and even call them to bounce an idea off of one of their investment professionals. a good strategy relies on good insight. >> this is just big. more autc i think you'd actually have to be there. i needed to lose weight right in my hands. sophomore year, started weight watchers online, the weight started coming off. ahh! oh my gosh! 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[ pigeons ] heyyy! hooo!!! >> by the way, the air conditioner in here? >> yeah. >> who mapped this? >> why, are you cold? >> am i cold? throw a log on t this is freezing, bill. >> can we get larry king a shawl, please? i want mr. king to be perfectly happy. >> cold. i don't mean to complain. >> time for new rules. >> all right. >> thank you, larry. thank you. >> larry king and mika brzezinski agree, mika is always complaining how cold it s >> i'm not complaining. >> what is your heritage? >> polish. >> polish this is warm? >> i know, should be. i'm half-czech as well. >> warmer after a couple of vodkas for her. >> that's true. >> you were this big? >> that's my dad. >> favorite all-time guests? >> isn't he amaze? >> brightest men i have ever interviewed among the 50,000, brzezinski way up there always on the ball. >> thank you. a little ahead of his time. >> always. yes. that's true. most of it -- >> we had him on and i asked him the wrong question once answered leaned forward like, this and he goes, "you know, you are stunningly superficial." >> i had to explain to joe that was a form of affection. >> larry king is with us here of course, legendary host, also the author of the new book "truth be told." and let's start with -- we were talking off-air, when i was in pensacola, florida a lot of times, i would turn on mutual and i would listen to you, you really had your big start in miami with just a phenomenal radio show. >> yeah, it was the first really national network radio. started in 1978, prompted me to move from miami to washington. so first came out of miami and then washington. i was in television. i did local tv in miami then in washington and then ted turner came along. wofrmgts have never known that you started in tv because you just, on the radio it sounded like you had been there for decades. >> i started radio and then tell vation year later but always did both. >> yeah. >> but i always treated television like radio with pictures. there was a lot of radio people who go into television and they will be affected. oh, a camera. is the camera on me now? am i pronouncing -- how i do look? i never thought about that. >> you never played tv? >> big show right now could be on radio. >> right. >> right. >> so, you -- >> treat it that way. >> so you treat it had like a conversation. you never played tv. but you never got in the way of your guests either. >> i never had an agenda. i always felt that i was the conduit. and i knew that i would be there tomorrow night, you know? the name of the show had my name on it so if you were a guest, you are a guest. i want you to be great. why wouldn't i want you? >> so. >> so if you're murky or terrible but that is effective, fine. i tried to ask the best questions, elicit the best answers and the key, of course is listening. a good interviewer has to know how to listen and so if you're listening, you can't have prepared questions, 'cause what if an answer throws you so i never had a prepared question and i liked it. i like -- i love being live. hated taping. >> right. >> and i loved the immediacy of it. >> a lot of people criticize you through the years for not being tough enough, want you always to ask the gotcha question, but didn't you find that when somebody came on if they relaxed if they knew that you weren't looking for the left jab, to stick it in there that sometimes you would get a lot more from them? >> there had is a wonderful letter in the book from frank sinatra to me in which he analyzes how i work and how that's effective, because when you -- if you've got, for example, someone said, well, if you had osama bin laden on what would you ask him? i tell you the worst question to ask him, first question, why did you bomb those buildings? right, looks good, he could anticipate in anger, might make dramatic television, you don't learn anything. but i would ask him, why did you leave one of the richest families in saudi arabia and the only member of your family to leave, what caused to you leave? where did your hatred of the west come from? you learn more about him in that way. >> said something so simple but actually something that a lot of people in television could take, which is to listen. i mean so many people now on tv, especially on cable tv it is all an agenda, their opinion is even in the question and went person starts anticipating the question, they are already answering -- >> this is what i dislike about a lot of 24-hour news channels a lot of others, is that the guest is a prop for the host. >> right. >> so the host is there and it's sort of like -- let's say give you an example of today's guests, let's say joe scarborough is on, he has written a book. >> okay, interview him. >> okay, "my days in florida." "my memories of florida." my guest tonight, joe scarborough. he has written a new book "my memories of florida," nice tough here, joe. >> good to be here. >> i spent 20 years in florida i have so many memory, write about pensacola? >> yeah. >> i went to pensacola -- many, many times. remember traveling up there you can go from pensacola, go right by louisiana, go into mississip mississippi. did you write about travel? >> travel florida. one of my favorite. >> so you cross that line, enough me about? what about you? what do you think offers? >> exactly. exactly. >> so i -- unfortunately, that made me passe now. >> i don't think so >> i hope no. >> you also had a platform that gave you the time to do what you're talking about. >> an hour. >> i mean, you can really let an interview breathe and you can listen. >> radio, i had three hours. >> oh, good lord that ages crediblement. >> we get flee hours here. >> yeah, but you have many guests. this -- reason this is a fun show is because it's fun but serious and you mingle your topics well and you group well. >> we are also drunk when we come on, 6 in the morning. >> under the influence of something. >> like what are these? explain this to me? >> the drinks? >> what time you are on in california? >> oh, good lord. >> 5 a.m. get up at 6. >> tell me about -- tell me about -- of all the guests and you have got to go back through i want to ask first of all, who was the biggest thrill for? >> that's hard to answer. >> you have so many people come through, at some points, you are like i've seen it all before, but who is the -- i asked jerry weintraub this once, who is the biggest star who is the guy that made you stop and go wow and i expected sinatra or dean martin. he goes, ronald reagan. i saw him walk into a room, he suck up -- i would have never expected that from jerry weintraub. who was that person for you who was the wow? >> mandela. >> mandela? >> one, in his presence, not just interviewing him, but i went to south africa on a speaking tour for a group of banks. and mandela call and invited me to his home. and so i had lunch with mandela and dinner with declerk. >> wow. >> i'm a little jewish boy from brooklyn, right? what the hell am i doing here? and to be in the -- because i believe mandela was probably the greatest political social figure of the 20th century and had he taken a different approach coming up, you would have had civil war in south africa. but he came out of jail, had two of his guards attend his inauguration as president and declerk told me he called mandela the day before he got out of jail and invited him to come to johannesburg and address the legislature. and he politely declined. he said he would walk out of the jail in cape town and just walk among the people and declerk, he said he went up ten-fold in declerk's mind. >> wow. >> so it would be mandela. >> ask you the flip side of that question, would yo like to bring up subjects that raise pain. >> go ahead, john. >> you have interviewed everybody, everybody, except for bruce springsteen. how did that happen? how did you not get the boss? >> that hurts. >> stop it. >> my producers' fault. they failed. >> awful. >> new jersey, i never got -- never got bruce springsteen. >> how can he resist you? >> i don't know. i have never met him. he would be one of my favorite people. you know, sometimes you fall between the contracts you can get people that other people don't get and sometimes you don't get someone. you can't hit it perfect. >> that is your biggest miss? >> i do four specials a year now on cnn. we did one on alzheimer's. we got one coming on johnny depp. he would have been on my all-time list. the person most wanted to get was castro. i wasn't to havana last year and met people in the government and trying to get them for us. we hear he is going to do one more interview. >> oh, great. >> and he -- you know, he is the longest-running leader to run a country ever. >> yeah. unbelievable. >> you know, along the lines of misses, are there -- 'cause you are responsible for so many years of great television, has there ever been an interview where you and your producer is it wendy walker? >> yeah, terrific. >> that did not work, that was incredibly disappointing? tell me. tell me. >> okay. >> i like hearing these stories. >> it is -- it was not generally known almost embarrassing. >> do it. it is good four. >> rock hudson had a wife many years prior to becoming a famous actor. >> i know. >> and the wife's name was phyllis gates who recently passed away. never accidenter views, did a couple of anting roles but basically a low-key person. but she finally agreed after hudson died to do one interview and it would be us and we made a mistake. we overpromoted. never overpromote. we went crazy. tonight, phyllis gates, rock hudson's wife. what has she got to tell us? tune in. you won't want to miss this. rock hudson divied of aids, but add wife. how did you meet? i was a secretary to rock's agent and he naturally visited his agent a lot and we went to a couple of movies and we liked each other and got married. was it a happy marriage? yes, but rock had had a lot of work to do we didn't have any children. after a year or so we parted. did you keep in touch with him? no. did you have any idea that he was gay? no. no further answer. >> and you are just -- just there hanging. >> call him when he had aids? >> no. >> oh, man. >> i look at the clock. >> you got a full hour. >> 58 minutes. >> what was his favorite film (oh, god. >> that was awful. never overpromote. >> what story, truth be told, what's one of your favorite stories in here that people are going to pick this up book are going to be surprised about? >> they will be surprised, favorite a wrong word. no it is a right word. the whole bernie madoff story, invested with bernie madoff, never met him, never spoke to him. we would to get reports, my accountants would call me this guy is unbelievable, he is unbelievable. over the year, we gave him 4 million 8 and took out 4 million 1. whenever we took out money, that day, you got t you call up, wired in. >> wow. >> the reports would come every morning, i didn't see them, they went to my accountant, call me up, unbelievable. madoff would say, this -- i'm not too confident this month, i'm buying treasuries. never bought a thing. >> wow. >> we were down 700,000. got 200 back from the estate if would you call it back and 500 from the government for taxes we paid on stock we never had, never had a stock. >> wow. >> never had one stock. we never saw a shred of stock. we had three accountants in new jersey. why did we believe it? >> larry king. >> why did no one check this? >> unbelievable for so many years. >> listen, we thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> appreciate t. >> enjoyed doing this book. >> larry king, "truth be told, off the record about favorite guest, memorable moments, funniest jokes and a half a century of asking questions." >> find an excerpt on our website on joe.msnbc.com. thank you, larry. >> thanks, larry. >> great iced coffee. >> great. we will be right back. >> announcer: this past year alone there's been a 67% spike in companies embracing the cloud-- big clouds, small ones, public, private, even hybrid. your data and apps must move easily and securely to reach many clouds, not just one. that's why the network that connects, protects, and lets your data move fearlessly through the clouds means more than ever. [ man ] ♪ trouble ♪ trouble, trouble trouble, trouble ♪ ♪ trouble been doggin' my soul ♪ since the day i was born ♪ worry ♪ oh, worry, worry worry, worry ♪ [ announcer ] when it comes to things you care about, leave nothing to chance. travelers. take the scary out of life. ♪ you know how i feel i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ freedom is mine ♪ and i know how i feel i never feel deprived. you know how freeing that is? ♪ it's a new dawn, a new day i feel good. i feel good. i feel good. ♪ and i'm feeling good [ female announcer ] join now for free. hurry offer ends june 18th. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. good tuesday morning, i'm meteorologist bill karins. your business travel today it will be hospital. minneapolis, as warm as 95 today, detroit, 90, chicago, 94 atlanta, 92, really hard to find a spot not going to be boiling hot but especially dallas at 99. waiting for you. like at the hotels.com 48 hour sale. this tuesday and wednesday only. hotels.com. be smart. book smart. you know that comes with a private island. really? no. it comes with a hat. you see, airline credit cards promise flights for 25,000 miles, but... 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