either way. i don't think that we should -- do i think we should have to have taxes. i do think that people have to pay their fair share. i do think that the majority of the money is going to come from the wealthy. that's where the money is. on the other hand, today is not the right ways to do it and if you were to do it, you have to do it with meaningful cuts done in a time frame that is believable. good morning, it is monday, april 259, tth, the day after er and we're in london and with us onset, we have roger bennett and we also have senior research fellow, my educator according to some, and columnist for news week magazine, neal ferguson. >> we're so excited to be here. first of all, the sun, but of course we didn't come for the sun. we came if one reason. >> yes, absolutely. a major story. >> it's a huge story. in just a few day, and i'm counting down like four or five days -- >> i'm counting the seconds. >> really the event of the year as far as i'm concerned. >> of the decade. >> i wouldn't go that far. >> but arsenal. arsenal will be playing manu. and actually i think -- roger, you tell me, is not the future of english premier league football on the line? if arsenal wins, chelsea could still back into it. >> it's huge. >> i can't wait. >> how exciting to have roger here. there's a wedding here, also. little known fact, we've actually met roger the same way that william first met kate. and that is in a lingerie show. >> and i couldn't believe it, i thought, wow, roger is hot. >> yeah, he is. >> i don't think they're taking britain seriously. >> no, we are. >> about as seriously as they should be. everything that's great about britain, military vehicictory, political princess and pigeons. >> just a few weeks ago, anarchists had overrun the square. >> a month ago, i think it was march 27th, a great protest here. the police moved the protesters to this very square and they took it apart. it this place was littered with graffiti. this is not a place you come to do live television. this is a good flies come for a little bit of a rum fest and fight. >> and the question is will austerity work in the times of london, word that nick clag may be seeking higher political ground, actually he's starting to attack cameron. is this grand coalition falling apart? >> no, i don't think it's going to fall apart. liberal democrats don't have anywhere else to go. they have to stay on board the ship or they're goners. and actually i think it is working in the sense that if you look at the imf's latest forecasts for the uk economy, it's 2% growth that's better than the euro zone which is 1.5%. i think people will look back and say george osbourne is the finance minister here got it right. he acted before the bond market took britain down. so i think things are looking remarkably between considgood. >> what about the politics of it all? cameron's numbers are going down, thatcher's numbers went down in '79. i get the sense, though, that cameron is no margaret thatcher, he wants to be seen like george w. bush was originally, sort of a compassionate conservative with a short of a nod and a wink i'm not doing this because i want to cut, i'm doing this because i have to cut. >> i think that's true. i'm old must have to remember 1982 which was the low point of the thatcher government's fortunes and the economic situation was in many ways worse even though the kind of cuts were somewhat less than what we've witnessed. but remember the key figure in terms of economic policy in this government is not the prime minister david cameron. about think of h chk think of him as the chairman of the board. george is a political animal who is much more concerned with the long term prospects for the conservative party than with the short term macroeconomic numbers. and he's clever. they've both been very smart, they have the liberal democrats in to the coalition, they can't ex without -- >> you're saying they can't escape. willie yesterday, you went out on a mission, you wanted to see how this wedding was going to stimulate the economy and and i must say, i'm very excited. jeffrey emelt is bringing good things to life that will stimulate the economy. . tell america and britain about it. >> we'll have a full report on just how grand the scope is of the industry. but especially the rerefrigerat, not a gimmick, not a mini fridge. >> a big one. >> you put it into your house for all eternity and it's got kate on one door, william on the other. >> did you get the kate and william vomit bags? they have them. >> you're going to see those in our piece. and let me just say, roger was talking about the protesters on the square. they were all here yesterday. i don't know what happened in the last 12 hours or so, but they were camped out in tents. >> they're going to queens park rangers are going to clinch today. >> love it. >> so let me ask you about the ge refrigerator. is the picture of will before or after he started losing his hair? >> oh, stop it. you're just -- >> oh, there it is. is that like one of those zero -- >> wait a minute. seriously? do people buy them is this. >> that's the official engagement photograph. arguably improved by the water carrier. >> someone will have this? >> it's available only in the uk, so about if you want one, you'll have to get it while you're here and have shipped. >> let's get to news. there goes our wedding coverage. we're done. we wrapped it up. >> so let's go to news. >> well, we'll go back home, there's a lot going on in washington. some members of congress are vowing to fight the obama administration's plan to raise the federal debt limit. two members of the senate's gang of six appeared on "meet the press" yesterday to discuss the growing battle. kent conrad defended a short term extension of the debt ceiling. >> i will not support any long term extension of the debt without a plan or proposal or process in place to deal with the debt. and so i've voted for short term extensions, but i won't vote for a long term extension and i won't do it now unless we have a plan to deal with this debt because at the end of the day, this represents a fundamental threat. >> bipartisan team continues to work on a compromise that does not include significant tax hikes. republican senator tom coburn was pressed on his position regarding tax reform. >> but here's -- if people's taxes go up in some way, it would appear to be a violation of the pledge that you signed with a well-known americans for tax reform taxpayer protection pledge and the second piece of this is that you vow it on it oppose any net reduction or him mags of deductions in credits unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates. if taxes end up going up in some capacity, would you not be in violation of that pledge? >> well, i think which pledge is most important, david? is the pledge to uphold your oath it to the constitution of the united states or a pledge from a special interest group who claims to speak for all of american conservatives when in fact they really don't? the fact is we have enormous you are urgent problems in front of us. >> the treasury is expected to hit its debt ceiling in may. i still see it as a fake struggle. it has to be done. >> what we just saw on "meet the press" was fascinating. powerful force in american politics since days of reagan. he has the no new tax pledge. most conservatives signed them in their campaign. tom coburn, a good friend of mine and very tough conservative, just said we're going to do whatever it takes. if we reform the tax code to bring in more revenue, i'll do that if i get more spending cuts. really does seem now everything is on the table in this american budget battle. >> that's good in a sense that it would be very unfortunate in the positions became locked into a completely in-combatability polarized debate which threatened to happen. i think the key issue is to recognize that if americans want to keep entitlements at the kind of level that they seem to want to keep them at, something's got to give. my question is whether it should be income tax. one of the problems of federal finance is that there is no value added tax and no sales tax. it may well be that in truth the federal need as new tax source. right now the debate is just about income tax and or corporation tanks and i think that's a flawed debate about that we need to ask whether the federal government needs a new tax whether sales or value added tax like they have here in europe. >> and of course if you have somebody like coburn talking about bringing in more revenue to the federal government, he's not going to take that step unit democrats meet him halfway. and go after these entitlement programs. that's something that in american politics has always been the third rail. you touch it, you die. it appears both sides realize now medicare, medicaid, social security will be touched. and that's happened in britain with the retirement age going up to 66, right? >> from my vantage point, britain is about a year ahead of the united states in grappling seriously with the fiscal crisis and i think it's refreshing that just in the last few weeks we've seen a change of mood in washington. long overdue in my view. it's game of russian rue heoule being played with the bond market. its first act was to take decisive steps to reduce expenditure to get the welfare expenditures under control. it's taken nearly 12 months for the same kind of debate to happen in the united states. it's just in the nick of time. >> willie driving around london and i'm struck, you hear about austerity all the time and you come over here and expect debate to happen in the united states. it's just in the nick of time. >> willie, driving around london and i'm struck, you hear about os steert all the time. you expect something different. and pension cutbacks and this seems to be exploding. >> it's a wonderful place and people in this country came to the epiphany we better doing something or else. i wonder in america if it's that and see the polls, yes, we believe in deficit reduction, can we cut into medicare? no, only 10 to 15% question. a political question. >> the one thing the deposit last year, the national health service was a sacred cow in the way medicare is and everything else has been cut quite steeply. it must be said these cuts haven't yet happened. it's been programmed to start. >> haven't experienced yet. there is a sense even though it's been discussed, pain is about to become and reality. and london, you don't have to travel far from here to encounter a different country that doesn't have all the prosperity. >> sounds like he's talking about liverpool. a lot of money coming from the middle east. >> cuts now even more dramatic than thatcher is in '81-82. >> the wear ra legal is remarkable. took more than the fact lands war to change the spirit of the nation and libya, people have said it's cameron's effort to have falklands action is very erie. >> let's talk quickly about these weddings. a lot of times, skeptics come in and look at the numbers, say cost $6 billion, but only bring in $1.5 billion. doesn't that discount the fact so many americans, my family included, first came here because britain, in the land of kings and queens and the history, that's all part of the fabric that pulls millions of people to this country every year? >> i must admit, i have great difficulty talking about this subject without waves of nausea sweeping over me. >> thank you. i could kiss you. >> even more than the clinton wedding, i want to throw up. i'm leaving the country tomorrow morning so i won't be here. >> the economic, be a math man here. >> as long as we can confine ourselves to economics. >> please talk about your nausea. >> let me ask him a question. what do you think the dresses is going to look like? >> stop! >> i would get sick if got into this. >> let's talk about money. is it a plus, a negative financially for this country? >> i think it is trivial to the point of disappearing. >> how much is being spent? >> how much is being wasted? >> compared to what is happening because it's a holiday today. the people you see in this background are not british. the british have fled to the seaside. only tourists and the american media are here in the country. >> please don't leave the country, please stay. >> i'm leaving. i felt the same way about the last royal wedding, it always makes me very queasy. i don't believe it has any economic significance at all and why i don't want to talk about it. >> the austerity, britain's budget. roger, you want to chime in here? >> it's like fenway park. the royalties are the last ones standing. every other monarchy has made them like commoners and hated and despised and like fenway, the only one left. there's a backlash to the backlash. "new york" magazine and english people will start to come around by friday. >> oh, neil. all right. we're just getting started on this special edition of "morning joe," live from london, when we come back, an exclusive first look. top stories from washington, we bring in the bureau chief of the "new york times," john burns and martin bashire and senator chris coons and tavis smiley. first, straight to get some lies. >> that's what they call it in hon don, lies? half-truths in the states. forecast for the royal wedding, in case you're curious, the last two guys weren't. looks nice, beautiful weather for joe and them. by friday, a slight chance for showers but shouldn't interfere with wedding plans. in the states, a lot of fog, thunderstorms, a lot like on easter, very warm, especially around d.c., a lot of rain around the ohio mississippi river valley. if you have any friend or family that live in the memphis area, all through arkansas, they're at risk for potential damaging storms, as far as severe weather, watch out for big airport delay, especially this morning, dallas, dealing with thunderstorms all morning long. you're watching "morning joe," live from london, except for me, of course, live from starbucks. d d are worth 25% more on travel. we're like forget florida, we're going on a safari. so we're on the serengeti, and seth finds a really big bone. we're talking huge. they dig it up, put it in the natural history museum and we get to name it. sethasauraus. really. your points from chase sapphire preferred are worth 25% more on travel? means better vacations. that's incredible. believe it...with chase sapphire preferred your points are worth 25% more on travel when booked through ultimate rewards. it's got a calculator. thanks, dad. this is the neighborhood. you get elm street and you get main street. thank you. and that's just the first quarter. so you want a slide in your office ? or monkey bars, either one. more small businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier. where's susie ? is she expecting you ? because they know the small business with the best technology rules. wise the senate on vacation. most of us, if you're jewish, you get passover off, if you're christian, you get good friday off. the congress is taking two weeks off. president's day, you took a week off. if i'm not mistaken, this is now five vacations since january that the senate and the congress have taken. >> it's a good question. >> bob asks great question. >> i totally agree with bob sheiffer. five weeks since january. >> i can say now that i'm not a sitting member of congress, i'm offended. outraged! get back to work like the rest of us. >> can you believe you got paid to do that? >> i can't believe i got elected. >> me, too. >> you're not supposed to agree. >> i'm sorry, you're right. it's amazing, perfect you were elected. "los angeles times," california voters want government employees to give up retirement benefits to help ease the state's financial problems according to a new poll. 70% of respondents said they supported a cap on pensions for current and future public employees. >> at the "usa today," astronaut mark kelly said doctors have cleared his wife, arizona congresswoman gabrielle giffords healthy enough to attend the space shuttle launch friday and president obama is planning to attend the launch. mayor michael bloomberg offers a little advice to don't trump on sunday. drop the birther issue. he's not alone. he said republicans are making a terrible mistake in making obama's birth an issue. >> the president was born here. this birther issue is more than one person. there's a lot of groups that have glommed on to this. i think the republicans are making a terrible mistake making this a big issue. we have immigration, the deficit, the economy, those are things the public cares about. my girlfriend always says it's always about housing and jobs, my house, my job. that's what the public cares about it. if the republican party doesn't start addressing that, they will lose and they deserve to. >> he also offered advice to president obama saying he spend more time wooing his political foes in order to get things done. that was interesting. >> let's go to -- who is it today? mike allen. he was the sixth man. >> we have mike allen, the chief correspondent for "politico." hi, mike. >> happy monday, guys. >> we hate to rub it in but it is beautiful here. >> it's always sunny at "politico." >> if you say so. >> wow. >> gas prices always make for good political fodder. you have new reporting what the republican party aims to do to use the issue against democrats. what are they doing? >> in may, republicans will come back and make a big push on jobs and specifically focus on gas prices. they will use legislation, investigation, their oversight powers, all to draw more focus to what they say they can do on energy. now, of course, as you guys know, house republicans can't do anything for gas prices in the short term. this is an effort to stick it to the president, to say he took his eye off the ball earlier on in the administration. >> rising gas prices will be the fault of the democrats, fault of -- >> it is such a potent issue. i talked about i had a very conservative friend in northwest florida never voted for a democrat before in his life, gas prices got over $4 back in 2006, he immediately said he was looking for a democratic president. that's the reality, at least in the united states. we've been immune from the type of gas prices europeans have been paying for years. >> right. it is a politically sensitive issue all over the world, one of the last things george osborne the last finance minister slipped in, break in terms of taxation to try to ease the pain for drivers. it's happening in china, too, the first signs of what could be a serious wave of unrest about inflation in china was action by truck drivers in china, a worldwide issue. neither republicans or democrats are in control of gas prices driven up by supply and demand. >> is this issue -- we had the talk about it around the show, is this a supply and demand issue back in the states? we hear it has more to do with unrest in libya and iran and other places. >> yes. the supply side is clearly dominated by political unrest in the region the world's biggest gas station. that's not going to go away. i've been arguing some time there's a big problem unfolding in the region. it's not over. if it spreads to the really big oil producer, saudi arabia, we can see higher prices. china's growth and not only china, you name it, any major non-western non-developed economy is growing very price and another big reason why there's pressure on prices. i don't see that changing overnight unless the chinese alter their monetary policy. a big change could be china tightening of monetary policy. >> we know the president is watching that closely as his gas prices go up, presidential approval tends go down, right? >> that's correct. we see a little bit of recalibration for house republicans during the election. they were very disciplined talking about where are the jobs and pocketbook issues and realized they got off and talking about the deficit and want to remind people they're focused on the pocketbook. >> mike allen, thanks so much. >> let me ask you, in your home in liverpool, right next to the framed portrait of winston churchill, where is the picture of pe tullia clark? left or right? >> by margaret thatcher? churchill, thatcher and -- >> what's coming up? >> for a lot of people here, the most interesting thing about the royal wedding, if there is one, souvenirs. i went out on the streets to do a little shopping yesterday. >> good. what did you buy me? >> stomach bags. >> and a wild weekend of football action, roger bennett takes us through all the highlights, next in sports. keep it on "morning joe," live from london. 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>> football junkies, about your boston red sox. take your finger off the panic button. sox looking yesterday for the four game sweep anaheim angels after the fear and loathing early in the season in boston, they are rolling. carl crawford finally gets on the board. >> can you believe it? >> april 24th, john lackey, the red sox right-hander. >> how much are they paying him? >> six hits. 162, something like that. >> he finally gets a hit. he's like the pit-- from americ baseball. >> you have to start saying nice things about dice-k. >> i will, barnicle never will, i will. >> you look at the al east, looks like yankees and sox moving better. >> the little team that could. >> little team that could. you have the highest payroll in baseball. red sox, i think i can, i think i can. >> i think i can. >> they're getting there, slowly but surely. it's grit, pure grit. >> they can't even afford uniforms. >> they're practically playing for free compared to the yankees, a little pitch, a little playing. roger bennett, let's start a momentous week in england. i went to my first game at chelsea, pretty amazing. what happened? >> fernando torres, the $80 million gentleman, after 14 games, 732 minutes, finally did this. almost tackled lashing down on him. first goal by chelsea', the $80 million move. look at this. what a relief for this gentleman. everything is effort in his life. he made the next goal in a 3-nil victory. smack. >> what a goal. >> torres shirt sales will now spike, english media will herald he is back, everything is absolutely perfect and chelsea claims to be back in the title race with manchester united. the gentleman has performed this season as well as russell brandy in an arthur. >> did you really say that? >> this is important. no doubt about it. >> he makes it like porn. >> manu against everything that looked like manu would be forced to take a draw. if that had happened, but united trying to nail down their 19th title, a record for them. >> they labored on the field but rarely avoided dropping points, the gritty team that could, held on for a while. american goalkeeper, tim howard, the giant in the 84th minute. greatest in sports. united, they kept the fans on the edge of their seat. they're now six points clear. they have a massive game this weekend, the champions lead and still firing on all points. >> the best money they ever spent. remarkable output. >> this is a team engrained to win, with a terrible squad, more than i can say for arsenal. >> their collapse continue, this has been an epic collapse. >> they wait until the 90th minute to disintegrate. i don't know if there's ever been a team in sports like this, they dominate games, play with great flair, play exquisitely. in the 90th minute, this. >> they always find a way to lose. >> always. >> ferguson, a complete collapse. what's wrong with arsenal. >> i can't wait to get back to harvard and the red sox after what i've gone through this year. as an arsenal fan, it has been torture. our manager is expressing utter despair. >> week after week -- >> i have to say, though, i have to say, roger, you were with me, crying in the east village before christmas with lfrp and uncle roy. it was pathetic. >> they have turned things around in liverpool, they are on fire. >> scottish managers. >> my gosh. king kenny. >> the scottish manager but really is the red sox ownership that has injected a new spirit into this team. striking, the red sox ownership. how great were they on the weekend? >> wow! >> the 1.5 mill, they believe -- >> the revolution begins! >> enjoy it. >> there's maxi. he did a hat trick. can you believe joe coles scored a goal? >> since lebron james invested in the club, three things have happened. >> explain quickly, i know we have to go to break. explain about the old firm. one of the most remarkable games in the world. >> less a game, more a civil war football game that takes place on the side. there's been four letter bombs take where the manager is meeting fans and even susan boyle has been given police protection. they were worried. >> people die. it is sectarian violence. >> i'm from glasgow and essentially we have the northern ireland problem. instead of bomb, we use a football. >> it is rough. >> last week, they used bombs. >> thank you. again, no idea what he's talking about. were you in london? i did catch the line. stopped me. on the field. >> must read opinion pages. they will be football-free. plus more with neil ferguson and roger bennett. you're watching "morning joe," live from london. getting ready to plant? 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[ male announcer ] great deals on any 2011 volkswagen are here. but not for long. hurry in to the going going gone event and get the 2011 tiguan for $279 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. of course not. we broke up 6 months ago. but i don't think she'd go for a guy like -- [ ping! ] she says she'd love to. [ ping! ] she can't wait to see me. [ ping! ] she's wanted me to ask her out for over a year now! [ ping! ] she just sent me a video. [ girl's voice ] hi stephen, can't wait for our date! oh, can i see that? aah! 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[ female announcer ] hurry, join for free today. weight watchers online. finally, losing weight clicks. i will vote no on raising the debt ceiling unless we have comprehensive, dramatic broad cuts to federal spending including the reform of entitlement spending. i think the best play here is to have the bipartisan deficit commission report of the gang of six attached to the debt limit extension. without that, we should not send a blank check to the administration. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joe and mika with you. we are, of course, in london. over our shoulder, quite a shot they set up. >> yeah. >> you can see big ben and the houses of parliament behind us. >> incredible weather. >> incredible weather. >> we had to leave karins behind. can you imagine? a dark cloud of london. >> wherever we take him, it rains. >> it's awful. he's an embarrassment and his weather is all lies. >> he sucks. >> good. >> anything in here about english premier league football? >> no. we will move on from football. >> neil is excited. was that the first time -- a life long fan of the sport. is that the first time you had a chance to talk english football? >> i just lost my soccer commentary virginity on your show. >> that's one way of saying it. >> i can tell you, neil, they're very excited in topeka about that fact. >> you're really here to talk about the wedding, right? >> the wedding? >> i love it when he says he gets nauseated. >> when he's debating you on the president's foreign policy. >> no. that's when he gets violent. >> we will do that soon. >> let's do must reads. >> i don't mind being educated but you're still wrong. >> "washington post," obama advocates given better health, longer life expectancy and wealthier elderly why shouldn't social security and medicare eligibility aides be broadened? and about 15 billion dollars a year in crop subsidies to help offset the insecurities of weather and fluctuating prices considering that volatile prices' effect many americans. and why do farmers serve special protection? and might not a higher gas hin tax reduce budget deficits and oil imports? obama is silent there, too. >> paul ryan talked about a 2% medicaid increase in funding. he knows it will not end up there. they will probably end up somewhere in the middle. neil, everybody is positioning theirselves. the president will not come out talking about entitlement reform. >> the political debate in washington goes on and fundamental issues get sidelined. i think we made progress since ryan put his proposals forward. even he didn't want to grab the rains of social security reform, he grabbed medicare. and these will bankrupt the united states without reform. there ought to be consensus rather than this polarized debate that risks driving the united states into a financial crisis that we have seen in some american kris. that could happen this year. >> that goes beautifully to the next one. unmasking false choice is especially important to progressives for the task off finding balances between the government and market and greater equality and commitment to individual freedom is close to the heart of their political philosophy. in the current budget battle, the quintessential choice is the core assertion of the house republicans' plan we have to choose either program cuts or tax increases and go only for program cuts. our purpose should be about finding the right balance between the two. why not? >> it really hurts me to say this -- >> let's say it. >> i may agree with e.j.dionne. >> oh, god. >> there is going to be a balance. republicans starting only with cuts, most progressives with only increasing tax revenue with the federal government. in the end, there has to be a balance and there will be a balance and that's how it will be resolved. >> if you go back to paul ryan's original road map document where he said his first thoughts to solve this crisis a large part was radical reform of the tax system. simplification but also removal of all the anomalies and loopholes that make it so complicated. let's face it, the u.s. tax system is a mess. >> ridiculous. a lot of progressives started screaming and yelling he was lowering the tax rate. he was lowering the tax rate but he was getting rid of loopholes. actually, his argument was he was going to bring more revenue into the government. we need to get rid of the loopholes and bring more revenue into the government so the wealthiest don't pay 14%. >> that's a legitimate argument. if you look closely at what ryan is arguing, he's not saying we want to reduce taxes period, let's simplify the tax code, lower the rates and increase the revenues and that's in everybody's interest. >> yes. >> all right. willie geist disappeared. what's coming up next? >> i'm down here in the square and i will give neil ferguson a reason to get excited. about how the souvenirs? ashtray, shot glasses and even toilet seats. i went out yesterday to find the worst of the worst. live on "morning joe." 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>> i'd have to change it. >> reporter: no, prince william did not put a ring on your finger but doesn't mean you can't get a knock off of the real thing as little as $29.99. >> it's very special. >> reporter: safe sex this is kind of thing you never want to forget and you won't thanks to these condoms. you're not selling these condoms? >> i think it's disgusting. >> reporter: if you're like all americans, all this will and kate hype makes you a little ill. now, a souvenir for that, the royal william sick bag. now, your collection is complete. mika, i know you were one of the principle investors in the royal wedding sick bag. i had some of the will and kate cereal this morning, delicious. >> good. all i need is the sick bag and neil will need one, too. >> two. >> two orders of will and kate sick bags, too. >> we're getting a fridge before we leave. >> seriously, what was jeffrey thinking? what was he thinking? >> i think we get the discount. >> you would like to have that in your refrigerator, wouldn't that be nice? >> neil, thank you so much. very good to have you here. >> we really appreciate your perspective. will you come back, please? talk about the wedding. >> how about soccer? no wedding. coming up next, the london bureau chief for the "new york times," john burns joins the conversation. also, martin bashir will be here. keep it right here on "morning joe," live from london. ♪ sun in the sky ♪ you know how i feel i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ freedom is mine ♪ and i know how i feel i never feel deprived. you know how freeing that is? ♪ it's a new dawn, a new day i feel good. i feel good. i feel good. ♪ and i'm feeling good go on, join for free. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. 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[ male announcer ] we won't be beat. we have low prices every day. on everything, backed by our ad match guarantee. save money. live better. walmart. on everything, backed by our ad match guarantee. when you're responsible for this much of the team, you need a car you can count on. mujahid. the longer we delay, the more likely it is to stalemate. if you're worrying about al qaeda coming into this fight. nothing would bring al qaeda more rapidly and dangerously than a stalemate. >> here we go. welcome back to "morning joe," live this week all week in london. roger is still with us. joining the set, the london bureau chief for the "new york times," we're honored to have john burns with us along with willie, joe and me. >> and writing a piece in the "new york times" sunday talking about transition from 1981 to 2011. quite a piece, wasn't it, roger? >> absolutely. i remember as an 11-year-old getting sucked into the last wedding and the rest of england, lucy and the football, we're not going to get sucked in again. england itself has changed. you outlined that beautifully in your piece, a third of individuals in london are not british born. how has england changed since the last royal their vacation before only to find out they're here the week of the royal wedding and not necessarily that happy about it. >> when you take a poll of any kind, more person or formal, it all depends on the context. the context of that is we are enjoying a four-day sunny weekend when people have a lot of other things to do, go to the golf course and beach. beaches in this country have been busier in the past weekend than years and they're not thinking a lot about the wedding. we'll see. >> we have other things to talk about. >> we do. let's talk about economics. there are parallels, 1981, margaret thatcher come to power, i guess two years earlier, now, we have another conservative, david cameron in power. thatcher was more transformational. she was a zealot for free market, not so with david cameron. how were the challenges facing this conservative prime minister different from the challenges facing thatcher? >> david cameron, you're quite right, is not an ideologue, instinctively more liberal than margaret thatcher was. but the cuts he's making now just beginning to bite are much more severe than anything scheffer attempted. him paled by the state of the economy when cameron took over. we're right at the tipping point and large questions whether the government cameron leads can survive this through the summer. a possibility of a new general election in the autumn. >> mick clegg, who came together with the coalition, now appears to be having second thoughts? >> he is. are they cosmetic or are they real? this referendum in 10 days time on the voting system. there was a pledge there would be such a ref ren dumb on the system alternative vote that would greatly favor the liberal democrats that drew the liberal democrats into this coalition. i think there's a great fear amongst liberal democrats and conservatives now although the conservatives don't like that system that the liberal democrats will lose and in it, lose one of the main reasons that's bound them to this coaliti coalition. >> do the british people -- are they going to be able to digest these cuts, these changes? we americans always love to talk about how we're rugged individualists, for small government, of course, when as george will said years ago, we're all children of fdr. really, since 1945, since adley beat churchill after the war, this state has played a central role in this lives of british citizens. do the british -- are they going to be able to digest these cuts over the long run or will cameron likely be thrown out? >> well, again, as joe said, a french revolution 200 years later, it's too early to tell. we really don't know yet. if 500,000 public servants lose their jobs out of, the labor government ruled until last year for 13 years, had added nearly a million public service jobs. what cameron is trying to do is not completely change totally change the balance between the state and the private sector but roll it back somewhat to something more like what the country was looking at when labor won in 1997. >> roger, what are your thoughts? is david cameron going to end up being that exterminator you know you have to invite over before the christmas party to clear out the roaches and rats and get rid of them but you don't invite him to the dinner, say thank you, now leave. >> david cameron doesn't do roaches. the english public, we do austerity well in england. i don't think it's really clicked. the big story is whether he will wear tails or wear a lounge suit to the wedding. the english are very easily diverted. this wedding is one big great diversion for thingglish people. >> that, it is. >> come friday, there will be a big kick-off in this country. one thing england likes more than anything, an excuse to start drinking. >> can we get the sick bags? >> yes. >> good. >> some other top stories, we heard senator john mccain, as we were coming into the show. more on that. a nato air strike has flattened a building inside moammar gadhafi's compound in tripoli, what a gadhafi official describes as attempt on the libyan leader's life. gadhafi's press official reported 45 people were injured in the attack including 15 seriously hurt. it comes as some republican senators called on president obama to step up support for the rebels. john mccain, who was in libya over the weekend, urged president obama to ramp up operations in the country. >> we hope gadhafi will crumble from within. hope is not a strategy. it's pretty obvious to me we need -- even though i was gr grad -- glad to see the predator in the fight, it was obvious the united states has to play a greater role in the nato side. they neither have the asset, nor frankly the will. >> wow. lindsey graham, who joined mccain on his trip, says the u.s. needs to go right after gadhafi. >> it is leading to a military stalemate. right now, there's just not enough momentum by the rebels, even if they're better armed to break through to tripoli. there's not deep support for gadhafi. my recommendation to nato and administration is cut the head of the snake off. go to tripoli, start bombing gadhafi's inner circle, their compounds, military headquarters in tripoli. >> senator joe lieberman echoed that same sentiment. cut off the head of the snake, take gadhafi out. we seem to see the three of them aligned quite often on questions of foreign policy. what's the british view? we were told as americans we had go in to prevent a humanitarian crisis, people would be slaughtered in the streets. did that sell to the british people we had to give up treasure and blood in some cases? >> we are seeing the british government and french government have been more hawkish about this than the obama administration, which as you know, after about ten days with two american aircraft from this enterprise enforcement of no-fly zone, now back to predators. what we're seeing is a european yearning and how improbable is this, for a more aggressive foreign policy from the united states. after how many years is it, of hearing precisely the opposite. >> amazing. >> that is fascinating. of course, you have bo, warack a who seems to be stepping back, saying we're not going to go with this alone. you have the british foreign minister telling the british people there will not be ground troops. at the same time, it seems britain is leaning forward and being more aggressive towards libya. >> it's a case of the french, somewhat here, too, because the labor party and opposition party has been very strongly in support of the interventionists policy in libya. it's a question of be careful what you ask for, what you wish because we're beginning to discover, this is an early indication, to my mind, what a difficult world it will be if the united states is no longer willing to take the lead in matters of this kind. the european, as you know, are deeply disunited and don't dispose of the military forces to be able to pull something like this off. i think it's going to be an educative experience. >> i think it is. and mika, more unrest across the middle east, like a month and half ago, like egypt, the family dynasty in syria fighting for its existence. >> and we have what witnesses say, government troops backed by tanks, snipers and knife wielding security forces stormed a southern suburb. there are reports at least five people have been killed. this violence comes days after one of the biggest protests in the country's history as demonstrators continue to challenge president assad's authoritarian regime. in yemen, the president agreed to transfer power to the vice president in exchange for immunity dividing the country. thousands gathered in the nation's capitol to express the end of his rule. and the president's 32 year reign ends. here we go. >> absolutely breathtaking. we were talking to robin wright about these family dynasties collapsing. we talked about egypt. >> decades and decades. >> the same thing with yemen and syria. john, can you believe the dramatic change over the past six to nine months across the middle east, in northern africa? it is breathtaking. >> one hov those cases you look back at it, you ask yourself, why did we not foresee this coming? anybody who has worked in these country, and i have, knew for a very long time how deeply corrupt, how deeply unpopular, deeply repressive they were. but we in the west, not alone in the united states, but other countries, for expedient reasons have i effected not to notice this. i don't think that's because our diplomats weren't reporting it. wikileaks told us they were. but we were putting our human rights concerns secondary to other geopolitical concerns and in time we were bound to pay a price for this. >> do you have a theory, as to why it is that the monarchies seem to be holding on an sustaining, while the family dynasties are collapsing? >> you know, that's not something i've give an great deal of thought to. it's certainly true. who knows. is it because -- it's not because they dispose of physical force, unwillingness to use it, the saudis have put their troops into bahrain. i don't know, this is very much a country by country thing. you have to look at internal dynamics of each of these kris. for years, there have been senior american diplomats in the middle east, places i visited saying the saudi dynasty will eventually be toppled. at the moment, there doesn't appear to be the sort of unrest in saudi arabia that would make that probable. if that were to happen, the map of the world, not just the middle east would be fundamentally rewritten. >> it really would. obviously the mubarak regime is over, he's being held. that dynasty collapsed, few expected that to happen. what about the assad dynasty in syria, obviously a minority part of the population, yet assad's father, infamous how he p put -- he would literally go into villages, wipe them out, kill everybody, salt the earth, and had little problems in his last years of ruling. his son is quite different. do you think the assad dynasty may collapse? >> it certainly, with the news of the last 48 hours, beginning to look like that. but it expresses the central conundrum of that and maybe why our western policies are not just expedient in some respects practical, which is to say, it's difficult to see where this is all going to lead. these countries, under the repressive governments, yemen is an example of this, syria is, what's the uniting principle that's going to follow? who is going to emerge from this chaos? it seems to me the least likely outcome of all of this very sadly is we will see a flourishing of democracy. >> roger, what does this mean for middle east peace? the change mean for israel and palestinians? >> from an english perspective, john's point is absolutely bang on. the english papers are slowly catching on to this, exactly who are we supporting and looks like cameron is looking for a push like thatcher with the falklands and even in the median term, it seems unclear. >> and watching the varying responses from the white house, in the case of libya, go with nato. people shot at funerals for their own families in syria and yemen, we issue statements and call that outrageous. >> isn't that fascinating? it really is fascinating and part of that has to do with realities limits facing not just this president but the united states in general. >> after the break, a uk native now part of the msnbc family. martin bashir joins us. first, let's go to bill karins, back in new york with a check on the forecast. get it right, bill! >> it sure is sunny here. how about in new york? >> you feel bad for us, thunderstorms in the forecast and rain. picture perfect. london will seem like the best weather in the world. enjoy it, you spoiled brats. thunderstorms in the forecast, bring the umbrella with you, foggy and cool this morning. later today, storms roll through areas of the east. the wig weather headlines, poor people in arkansas, kentucky, tennessee, severe thunderstorms likely, a three-day outbreak and thunderstorms dumping heavy rain. we will see miserable floods, potential one of those you get every 50 years or so in the mississippi and ohio rivers, and we're talking serious concerns coming up on the upcoming weekend in one our country's biggest waterways. for three hours a week, i'm a coach. but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn who helped us weigh and understand all our options. for me cancer was as scary as a fastball is to some of these kids. but my coach had hit that pitch before. turning data into useful answers. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. we'll handcraft an arrangement that is sure to delight. ohh! take our "tote-ally" original, "tote-ally" mom bouquet, a stylish gift that fits her perfectly. let us arrange a smile for you, starting at $29.99. >> announcer: this past year alone there's been a 67% spike in companies embracing the cloud-- big clouds, small ones, public, private, even hybrid. your data and apps must move easily and securely to reach many clouds, not just one. that's why the network that connects, protects, and lets your data move fearlessly through the clouds means more than ever. i don't know we're in big trouble but we certainly could be very easily. i think this is a warning. we cannot continue to go on without intelligent immigration policies and need to create jobs. we cannot continue to spend money we don't have. deficits do matter, certainly in the long term and sometimes even in the short term. >> welcome back to "morning joe" live in london. joining us now, host of msnbc's martin bashir, martin bashir. a chelsea fan. >> a chelsea fan. congratulations. worth every dime of that 50 million pounds, tour res finall scored a goal. >> he did. but soon you will regret selling him because you know he will lead us to the promise land next year. >> you're dreaming, you are dreaming. >> absolutely not. actually, i am. >> liverpool did quite well dumping him. >> they did. in fact, morino said something very interesting about chelsea sea. he said, if this team doesn't win the champions league, they'll forever be known as the team what stood on the verge of the promise land and never got through. what a magnificent goal. come on, that's worth $50 milli. >> that's explains why you're rushing. i think it's a money laundering scheme. >> a reason to celebrate that goal? >> "new york times" is the second largest investor in football. >> this is so by, this show, so corrupt, so bias. two independents on this show. out the window. >> we'll get away from liverpool football and john kenny. 5-0 against birmingham over the weekend. >> birmingham magnificent. i believe they could get relegated. >> compare britain, 1981, during the last royal wedding to britain now. john talked about it in his piece, fascinating. >> 1981, unemployment stood at 3 million in the united kingdom, now 2.6 million. also, as you probably know, there were a number of civil disturbances, as there have been. there was a sense of economic depression that was feeding into a sense of unrest within the country. also worth remembering there was a conservative prime minister, marring y margaret thatcher in number 10, david cameron now. she won a landslide victory so it wasn't a coalition the wait is today. there are similarities between the circumstances at that point and how we are now. >> roger. >> is it true, john, england is a more cosmopolitan society? you wrote in your article and about the failure of street policies in 1981, the whole country was dancing, now cameron's government have been put in an almost kremlinesque position trying to stir up national enthusiasm. >> i worked most of my 36 years in the "new york times" in distant parts of the world. i came back here and found a very different england than the one i left many years ago and very different than 1981. this is not the defential england. it is still a country class counts quite a bit but nothing like it did. as a wealth of the royal family, william is marrying a commoner, very much more in tune with the mood of the times. diana was not a commoner. in fact, diana's family said at the time and have continued to say since, quite bluntly sometimes, to the house of windsor, we are an older and more distinguished dynasty than you are. >> martin bashir, in the diana era and her, there are a lot of differences between kate middleton and princess diana. are there any similarities? >> they're both beautiful. but there are huge differences. remember, when diana married charles, she was barely 20 years of age. she had never been to university, she had been to a finishing school in switzerland for six months and she was working part-time as a nanny. she had not had a formal education beyond high school. this young woman went to one of the best universities in the united kingdom. i don't want to rub salt in your wound but in britain, you can't get into a university because your parents gave a huge donation or because you're a brilliant linebacker or wonderful basketball player, you have to achieve certain economic standards. they both went to the same university, they both started on the same course, they're both 29. so they've had both a commoner experience but also the relationship has had time. for example, after a year of their relationship, they broke up. >> right. >> apparently, william had another relationship with somebody else, then came back. and for the last six years, they've virtually been living together. so she has had an experience of the royal family that diana had no idea of. when i interviewed diana, she actually said, it was like being thrown like a lamb to the wolves. she actually said nobody had sat down with her and explained what it would mean to be in the royal family. don't forget, when you're a senior position in the royal family, you're not just the head of the united kingdom, that's four nations, you're also head of the commonwealth. that's 54 separate nations. 54 separate nations, who are formally part of the british empire. it's a huge responsibility. kate middleton has actually been the recipient of enormous support, education from within the palace, resources, in terms of the media. >> a nine year process. >> entirely different situation. >> let's talk about the fact that she is a commoner. one thing we in america don't really understand, in the past at least, the class system here. it is far different than it is even in america. would this have been possible in 1981, in your piece, as roger has brought up, there has been so much change. but in 1981, would charles and the windsor family been allowed to marry a commoner? >> i think much of the unhappiness that ensued after that marriage had to do with the pressure there was on charles to marry an innocent girl. i think that was a huge mistake. that's not being repeated now. i have a personal perspective on this. my daughter went to school with kate, a rather good school, i have to say. my daughter is now working in australia for two years. she sent me an e-mail the other day, i am in a beach house in bind bondai while my former schoolmate and hockey teammate is about to become the future queen of england. she said this without any bitterness. there's the measure of it. she's gone from, you know, the most ordinary normal, thank goodness, of middle class circumstances, to this extraordinary position and enormous hopes, as martin says, rests on her shoulders. >> can i say one thing john just said. that is terribly humble. john is probably one of the most decorated war correspondents in the history of journalism. i don't think your daughter has anything to be ashamed of at all. >> i hope she's not ashamed of me. >> i think she should be very proud of you. >> but in australia, complaining about having to pay $17 australian the same as american for a packet of cigarettes. one of the things to come out of it may be that she gives up smoking. >> i hope she does. the nine year process of the relationship, that gives the relationship hope opposed to the one you covered and knew so well. snow what john said just now is absolutely true no one of us can be super confident about anyone's marriage. look at william's relatives, an uncle, andrew, divorced, auntie princess ann divorced and re-married. his father divorced, sadly, lost the princess of wales and now re-married. but i think this time round, if we can be hopeful, i think it's more likely that this is going to survive. >> she certainly, judging from the cnn documentary that has been running on a loop on cnn international over the past weekend, you look at her story, those nine extra years -- i don't know, some american network, but she's much tougher at 29 than i do anna could have ever been at 20. >> they're prepared. >> yeah. as prepared as i think you can be. >> as prepared as can be. >> we covered it. it's good. >> we covered it. good. >> coming up, the 2011 olympic games. i can do it, chris. did you see that? >> she did talk about the wedding without a hint of irony. and maybe facing fines from the olympic national committee. that and much more coming up live from london. mary! hey! wow, you look great! thanks! it's this new wish yourself thin program. i just wish it and it happens. it's probably those fiber one bars you're eating. i know they help me stick to my diet. the bars are 90 calories and the fiber helps you feel full. 90 calories and high fiber. so that's why this diet thing is working. but it's weird because my wish for lorenzo came true. 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[ male announcer ] great deals on any 2011 volkswagen are here. but not for long. hurry in to the going going gone event and get the 2011 tiguan for $279 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. welcome back to "morning joe," live from traffalgar squae in london. a nationwide man hunt for 64-year-old albert moore after he was suspected of planting a pipe bomb at a shopping mall near a columbine high school last week. estimated 10,000 people were evacuated on the 12th anniversary of the columbine school shootings. police confirm moore had been serving time in prison for a 2005 armed robbery. he had been sentenced to 18 years but was released early on april 13th. moore is considered to be armed and dangerous. in other news, an evangelical minister is weighing in on president obama's faith. reverend franklin graham, the son of billy graham said the real question is how you define who is a christian but shied away from the president's stance of claims to christianity. >> he has told me he is a christian. the debate comes what is a christian. for him, going to church means he's a christian. for me, the definition of a christian is whether we have given our life to christ and following him in faith and trusted him as our lord and savior. that's the definition as a christian not what church you are a member of. a membership doesn't make you a christian. >> do you believe him when he says he is a christian? >> of course, i'm not going to say you're not. god is the only one that knows his heart. >> on easter sunday yesterday, president obama and his family attended shiloh baptist church in washington d.c. founded in 1863, by freed slaves. there is growing concern this morning over the next big event to hit london. critics including a leading consumer magazine are blasting the ticketing system for the 2012 olympic games. the complaints come just a day before the deadline for applications to buy tickets. meanwhile, there is new word britain could face large fines from the international olympic committee for breaking pollution laws. the penalty could be up to 175 million pounds. to meet the legal agreement, london may have to reduce traffic levels more than 30% a month. a fine would be a huge embarrassment for olympic organizers who plan to make these games the greenest ever. london is known as one of the most polluted cities in europe. let's check in quickly with willie geist. where are you? >> down on the square intrafall gintrafall -- trafalgar. they're hosting the olympic games in the hours listed above for the olympic games. the summer games of the world in the next year and a half. when we come back, "morning joe" live from london. 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[ male announcer ] in the network, sparks fly faster. at&t is getting faster with 4g. rethink possible. ♪ ♪ hey, welcome back to "morning joe." we are here live in london obviously. over our shoulders, big ben and the houses of parliament. let's go back to new york right now and talk to the hosts of the pbs show, tavis smiley. tavis smiley out with a new book, "fail up," 20 lessons from business failure. i am running this segment because i am so good at failing. the key is getting up off the mat. seriously, i don't know an american success story, a great american success story, where you don't have a failure that somebody rebounded from. >> not so fast, joe, i will respond to that in just a second. first of all, i feel like a failure this morning. i fly all the way from los angeles to accept your invite to be on this show. you guys run off and leave me and go to london. was it something i said? what is this all about? >> it's pretty simple, tavis. we looked at the 5-day weather forecast and bill karins said it would be rainy and cold and miserable in new york. we said, let's go where americans go when they want to have a sunny spring day, let's go to london. >> i'm sitting- >> absolutely gorgeous, tavis, it looks awfully lonely there. i feel for you. >> i feel lonely here. i guess the consolation prize is, one, i get to sit in mika's chair, they tell me, which is pretty swifty, pretty neat. more importantly, since you're not here and since we look so much alike, i'm going to try to sneak in tomorrow night to the time 100 party and sit in your seat. congratulations. >> thank you so much. let's talk about some success stories in new york. obviously, michael bloomberg, a man who is now worth 22, $23 billion but he would have never gotten there if he had not been fired, i think he was in his late 30s, jamie dimon, considered by many to be the most powerful guy on wall street, also faced his own problems several years ago, abraham lincoln is the political story, loses one election after another, he pharmaceuticals fai. talk about how people who get knocked around and do great things in a turnaround in their lives. >> the mayor will be on my show tonight on pbs while you're in london and i suspect we will talk about that tonight. the book "fail up" is about reminding people anyone successful in any endeavor, politics, entertainment, sports, law, business, anyone successful in any endeavor will admit they learned much more from their failures than successes. i love samuel beckett's formulation, put it this way, ever tried, ever failed, no matter, try again, fail again, fail better. i love it. no one is successful. babe ruth, since i love baseball and we're in that season of the year right now. ruth said every strike gets me closer to the next home run. the question is, do we see failure as a friend and do we learn from these mistakes? right now, our country is, i think, frozen by the fear. the fear is palpable as you move around, fear of failing, individually, family, in our nation, we're afraid of failing right now. most americans according to one poll think our best days are behind us. this fear of failing is palpable as you move across the country and the timing of the book consistent be better to talk about how we can learn from these lessons and fail our way up. >> tavis, tell us how you failed your way up. what was your low point, where you actually leveraged that to become a great success. >> the book shares 20 different stories, not just about me, helping people situate theirselves through my stories. i had to narrow down my list of 20. my 20 worst mistakes and failures in my life and career. i made more than 20. i've written 15 books, joe and mika, but never one i had to be this honest and transparent. i wrestled quite frankly whether to tell these stories. most people don't know my mother and father didn't know these stories. i got arrested in college and went to jail for writing bad checks. i had to learn the hard way. took me 16 degrees to get my college degree. i've been hired and fired by a number of different networks on my way to npr and pbs. my life is no different than most americans, you have to learn to move beyond the failures, but these stories forced me to be transparent about the ways i had to learn from mistakes i've made along the way. >> what a great story. >> amazing. >> what a great story because all of us have shared that, all failed in their own way. >> everyone has failed. i think part of failing up is being able to address your failures and talk about them and completely transparently admit to them. that is the true testament of the man or woman. >> let's turn to roger now. it's confessional time. >> fail up before our eyes, roger. >> fail up, roger. >> i didn't do it, joe, it wasn't me. >> are you sure? >> it's a very powerful idea, tavis, your life led to this, in your introduction, you wrote how you had the idea of the idea for the book and it's a wonderful story, a 40th birthday story. >> on the occasion of my turning 40 i didn't think i was going to reach only because at 39, my two heroes were gunned down, malcolm x dead at there in and ironically dr. king dead at 39. said to mika and joe and willie, i think dr. king, to my mind is the greatest american we've ever produced. i was so trying to follow in his example loving people and serving people, not that i'm dr. king but this motion of using my life to serve people at 39, didn't think i would make it to 40. when i long story short got over that hump and made it to 40, i started to assess the kind of life i wanted to lead and legacy i wanted to leave behind me. turning 40 was a tough moment for me to start addressing these kinds of lessons what i wanted to learn and do with the second half of my life. >> martin. >> when i was listening to tavis talk about fear of failure, i was reminded of a speech teddy roosevelt gave in 1913 in which he said, i quote, the credit belongs to the man who's actually in the arena, whose face is marred by sweat and blood, who strives valiantly,aivaliantly, errs and comes short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcoming, who knows the great enthusiasm, great devotion, spends himself in a worthy cause, who best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatness. 1913, tell me, has anybody bettered the sentiments of facing the fear of failure and facing that within yourself? it's not about being a winner. americans are obsessed with winning cups, winning championships, the number one. actually, it's about participation and doing your best. and not everyone is going to win. >> by the way, when you're not number one, maybe we ought to talk about it, i'm just saying. >> you know, tavis, my son, i told my son he didn't want to try out for basketball. >> right. >> wasn't very good at basketball. waited a few years later, i said, of all the things that you achieved in high school, i was never more proud of you than when you went into the arena, you took a chance when you knew you might fail and you failed. that's what we need to teach our children, isn't it? >> it is. i think because of the condition of the world and our country, people are so afraid to fail, they're so afraid to take risk, they're so concerned about failing, and that's not how we get from here to there. we're not going turn this country around if we get frozen by fear. i'm hoping these stories will inspire people to realize they can learn from their failure, you can't avoid it but you can failure way up to the top. >> it is a great message. travis smiley. >> it is. he's so lonely there. >> have fun in london. >> he owns it. building success from failure. thank you, tavis smiley. all right, willie geist, what do you have coming up? >> first of all, i could listen to martin bashir read poetry like that all day long. >> i know it. something about it. when we return, americans in london, are they here for the royal wedding? we will talk to a couple of them when "morning joe" comes back live from the great city of london. losing weight clicked for me when i had everything i needed to lose weight right in my hands. sophomore year, started weight watchers online, the weight started coming off. ahh! oh my gosh! 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[ male announcer ] get zyrtec®'s proven allergy relief and love the air®. jennifer hudson is our little cousin. jennifer shined a new light on everything. she really inspired me. i said to myself, "if she can do it, i can do it." weight watchers pointsplus makes you slow down and think about the things that you put in your body. on weight watchers, our family and friends have lost over a thousand pounds. i still can't believe it. ♪ and i'm feeling good ♪ and i'm feeling good go on, join for free. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. the answer is unequivocally, yes, we will raise the debt ceiling because the alternative, as every expert economist agrees, would be catastrophic for our economy, credibility around the world, for the bond markets and for the world economy. >> three or four times over the course of the last 20 years, congress has voted not raise the debt ceiling and it's taken a few months and they've come together and raised it. over the course of those few months when the debt ceiling wasn't raised, armageddon didn't hit, the government paid its bills. >> all right. you have your soccer tickets? >> i'm working on it. >> okay. >> i can't get my tickets! what's going on here? >> you work on your tickets later! we're back live in london, martin bennett and martin bashir are still with us. senator chris coons, good to have you with us. we'll get to you in just a moment. here we are in london. >> no doubt about it. a big week this week for a lot of different reasons. willie, you have been out and about. i don't know there's palpable excitement in the streets. >> martin is the expert on this. i asked a lot of people on the streets, are you excited about this? no. i think when the day comes as a country, we'll be wrapped up in it. compare this to 1981 with diana and charles, no comparison. >> martin, would you agree? >> the latest statistics reveal one-third of londonderries are leaving the city because the government has agreed to provide another bank holiday on the day of the wedding which is a somewhat mistake because the city's full of tourists but locals are kind of ambivalent. there's a demographic difference in terms of age. people under 25 are a little less interested. people over 45 are still very much supportive of the monarchy and looking forward to the events that will take place friday. >> roger, you would think the government would get their cues and clues from the kremlin. you have to whip up the interest. get artists to do paintings, murals. instead, another holiday. telling everybody, go ahead an leave. >> with the easter heading and wedding holiday, have an 11 daybreak. everybody's gone. the young people, at the end of the day, more excited about a day off work than the wedding. >> talking about the john burns piece, this city has changed so dramatically, this country changed so dramatically since 1981, you used one-third, roger, another one-third statistic and john burns speaks about the population of this city and country. >> another thing we didn't get to talk about with john in terms of the middleton family and why they're such a powerful symbol not just they're commoners but entrepreneurial class since 1980 that serves in england. her grandfather, on her mother's side was a coal miner, now they made their money but new money, a phenomenon in england. >> i love the term commoner. they're self-made millionaires done great for themselves and they're just commoners. >> commoners because they're only millionaires for the past 20 years. you know the story. the mother was a flight attendant and started making gift baskets for parties. >> party pieces. >> went on the internet and they just have exploded. this company, they have 30 people working for them. again, the class difference between the united states and britain, they are quote commoners. >> they started party pieces and went online. with the advent of the internet, still without the marriage not allowed to mix with royalty. snow this coup >> this couple, they're asking all the gifts be given to charities. >> massively unusual. when prince charles and lady spencer married they received 24,100 wedding gifts. >> a lot like willies. >> very similar. on this occasion, i remember going tokensington palace and seeing things in there from the gifts from the prince of tonga, a sculpted tobacco box from someone in china. on this occasion, i think this couple, who are already invested in a number of charity, prince william is following his mother in terms of charity called center point in london serves the homeless, they're very committed to a number of charities and they decided this is the best way to go. people here are very positive about that. >> talking about commoners and the class divide in britain. those walls are coming down. i was fascinated this weekend, i went to my first english premier football match with chelsea. >> you obviously chose the right club. >> not really. those were the only tickets available. i was sitting in this nice box with probably 1,000 other people. they were in suits. >> come honors. >> not commoners. it was fascinating. if you sit in a nice box in the united states and watch american football, when a touchdown is scored, you will have everybody, bankers, lawyers, doctors, high-fiving, hug, screaming yelling. quite different there, where the whole stadium would be on fire and half the people in the box would be sitting there politely, almost afraid to show emotion. it was fascinating. i turned to my wife and i said, there is still quite a class distinction in england. >> that's what happens when the russian tooligarde buys it. if he's not doing that, everybody else doesn't. >> english soccer supporters when i went as a youngster to chelsea, you will hear the most rude and nefarious chanting and going crazy. the people in those directors boxes as we call them are known as the prawn sandwich brigade. many are not supporters, receiving gifts to attend from various corporate entities. to be honest many will watch the first half, at halftime, get a gin and continue toic or pink gin and beer and straggle back for the second half maybe halfway through. the real supporters -- >> like you do before the show. i get it. >> that's exactly what i was saying, though, all around the stadium except for these director boxes, people were jumping up. i also, i got my tickets, as you said, a gift, i think the king of tonga gave them to me. >> very nice. we have to get to news and in delaware, check in what's happening in washington, key lawmakers are fueling the battle whether or not the government can take on more debt, discussing debate whether to raise the nation's debt ceiling. members of the senate's so-called gang of six appears on meet the press to defend their positions. kent conrad said he would not support long term extension. >> i will not support any long term extension of the debt without a plan or proposal or process in place to deal with the debt. i voted for short term extensions but i won't vote for a long term extension. i won't do it now unless we have plan to deal with this debt. at the end of the day, this represents a fundamental threat. >> some republicans are down playing the effects of hitting the debt limit, arguing the concern is overblown. republican tom coburn said this about tax reform. >> here is -- if people's taxes go up in some way, it would appear to be a violation of the pledge that you signed with well-known americans for tax reform taxpayer protection pledge. the second piece of this is you vowed to oppose any net reduction or elimination of reduction and credits unless matched dollar for dollar reducing tax rates. if taxes end up going up in some capacity, would you not be in violation of that pledge? >> which pledge is more important, david, the pledge to uphold your oath to the constitution of the united states or a pledge from a special interest group, who claims to people for all american conservatives when in fact they really don't. the fact is we have enormous urgent problems in front of us. >> senator coons, it's willie geist. the fact of the matter is the debt ceiling will be raised, a question what republicans and democrats have to give up to their republican colleagues to do it. they asked for a series of reforms to raise the debt ceiling. what are you willing to give up to get the ceiling raised? >> i think the question really is are we willing to be serious about tackling the deficit and debt in the short term and long term? i don't think that we should be holding the debt ceiling vote hostage. i think the long term consequences for our economy and credit worthiness for us as a country are too serious for us to be playing with. i support senator conrad and others in my party saying we are dedicated to making a responsible reduction in federal spending and to working hard to promote jobs and get our economy really going again. i think we have to strike a good balance between the two points. to be brief, i don't think we should be holding the debt ceiling vote hostage to any specific number target or detailed proposal but i do think the gang of six will come back from the current recess period with a serious proposal one i hope a lot of us will be able to get behind. >> senator joe scarborough here, i found it fascinating tom coburn, a good conservative friend of mine, from the '94 class, was willing to throw grover norquist under the bus. i haven't seen that in 15, 20 years and we will slow down the right of spending. >> i thought that was very encouraging. >> yeah. do you think the -- on the other side, will democrats do what's required to reign in entitlement spending? >> i think what's most encouraging to me about the gang of six is you have, on one side, senator dick durbin, for example and the other side, dr. coburn, you mentioned, folks very committed to, in senator durbin's case, protecting, upholding medicare, medicaid, making certain social security is solvent for the long term, there not just for the current generation but my children. on the other side, dr. coburn, a very serious conservative, very committed to reducing spending. if each of them keep giving statements as you just preeted from dr. coburn there at pushes towards the middle, i think that creates and sustained the space for us to be serious about the hard work that has to be done. >> a question for joe and you can take it to the senator. you hear these words being used, holding the debt ceiling hostage whether it's a fake debate, they're going to raise it, are they not? >> maybe not. >> really? >> the reason why, senator, i'll pass this on to you. when we had the showdown a few weeks ago about whether there would be a government shutdown or not, i wasn't surprised the republicans rolled over pretty quickly because those freshmen, from the day they were being sworn in, on the house side, at least, were talking about this debt ceiling. the democrats in the house as well as the republicans -- the democrats and the republicans in the senate understand that at least the house republicans are pretty serious about not raising the debt ceiling without significant spending cuts, right? >> yes. >> so what do you do to avert a financial crisis? i take it that's going on behind closed doors right now? >> yes. the gang of six has a lot of respect, a lot of supporters in both the republican and democratic caucuses in the senate. i do think, to go back to your point, joe, we nearly shut down the federal government. there were, i think, 59 house republicans who voted against keeping the government open. only with the votes of democrats speaker boehner was able to get the final consensus bill through. that was one of the most frustrating, even embarrassing moments for me as a freshman senator, to have us come that close, a half hour away from shutting down the federal government over an important principle, reducing our deficit. i remind you what nearly shut the thing down was a whole series of policy riders, things unrelated to this year's budget some of the freshmen insisted having be part of the vote, de-funding public broadcasting and cutting the epa's ability to do clean air enforcement and women's access to health care. it's my hope we won't do anything like that with the debt ceiling. despite comments by others, i think if we come close to defaulting on our debt as the s&p downgrade on our economy showed last week, the markets will respond sharply and potentially very negatively. we have a couple weeks we can work on this. we don't have time to play chicken with this very important issue. >> senator chris coons, thank you. you hear a lot of democrats saying playing chicken with this, holding it hostage and accusing the republicans of that. sorry to oversimplify it, if we don't raise it, will we have a financial crisis? >> we will, but -- >> so -- >> but at the same time, we have a financial crisis right now because we've been raising the debt ceiling every year. >> do republicans want to be responsible for that? i want to know how big a battle this really is? like the government shutdown you can put in quotes because it didn't happen. >> this is far more significant. i voted against raising the debt ceiling when they were trying to raise it to fight trillion dollars. i said until i see washington get serious about spending cuts, i won't give them another blank check. i want to talk quickly, we're obviously here, martin, talking about a wedding coming up. phil griffin, who runs msnbc said something fascinating to me last week before we came over. you know, this wedding, in the end, is all about diana. everything is still about diana. everybody will be talking about diana's oldest son, comparing kate to diana. you look at kate and she seems so solid and steady. we hear behind the scenes, she's the tough one in that family, behind closed doors. yet there was something about diana that always fascinated the world, maybe the fact she wasn't so solid, she wasn't so steady, she wasn't ready for what she was thrown into. >> you talk about diana's presence, kate middleton is wearing diana's engagement ring, a burmese safire william gave to her when he asked her to marry him. her presence physically is everywhere. when i interviewed her, she talked about three people being in her marriage. she complained about her husband's adultery. there will actually be three people in william's marriage, his wife, there's his stepmother, and there is the presence of diana, no doubt. >> fascinating. we'll have much more on this and other issues here in london, ahead, live from london, award winning british historian andrew roberts coming up on "morning joe." first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast back home. bill, don't screw it up. >> mika, send some of that sunshine our way, how beautiful does it look in london today? ridiculous. we're not getting that here. showers from hartford to boston, a gloomy day in new england. south of philadelphia, you get what we call the warm sector, 85 in d.c., 82 in philly, a chance of thunderstorms rolling through this afternoon. daylight hours should be rather nice. three-day severe weather outbreak starting in arkansas, tomorrow, louisiana, mississippi, by the time we get to wednesday, mississippi, alabama. severe weather and horrible historic flooding on the mississippi and ohio rivers causing huge issues into next weekend. the middle of the country, by far, the worst weather stateside. you're wrapping "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. discover customersl are getting five percent cashback bonus at home improvement stores. it pays to switch, it pays to discover. mongoose elbow pads, a pillow pet, and cotton balls. 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[ men laugh ] [ male announcer ] hurry, join for free today. weight watchers online for men. finally, losing weight clicks. looking for a simple way tomen. help lower your cholesterol? try benecol spread - a heart healthy alternative to butter. benecol contains an ingredient that helps block cholesterol absorption and has a delicious, buttery taste. make benecol part of your healthy lifestyle. i have great difficulty talking about this subject without waves of nausea sweeping over me. thank you. i could kiss you. >> even more than the clinton wedding, i want to throw up. >> that is just like putting a pin in. >> yeah. i was elated actually. >> now, with another view, let's speak to award winning british historian and prolific author, andrew roberts. >> this, i find fascinating. >> the royal house of windsor. i will tell you, andrew, it is fashionable to spit on ceremony and snub your nose, like neil and roger. i get excited at these things, i'm not ashamed to say, i was very excited in '81 and i'm cheering for these kids because i'm much older now, all these years later. >> you're right, too, a vital part of the branding of britain, a positive happy story. this is the son whose mother died so tragically finding happiness himself. what is there toer? >> about? why overintellectualize it or be cynical about a good story. >> many of us woke up in 1981 to see the royal wedding, wedding of the century. we were excited. it ended very badly. we all remember where we were when diana bad. it seems to me, this is the next chapter. she and her husband, charles, loathed and despised so long, he ended up being a pretty good damned father, raised two very good sons who have a lot of their mother in them but look who the oldest is marrying, a solei young woman. >> yes and quite a revolutionary situation, for the first time in 350 years, a future king is going to marry someone from the middle classes. this in itself is quite astonishing really. it's not going to be an upper class girl like lady diana or foreign princess, like so many others. somebody from the striving entrepreneurial hard working middle class. that's something interesting about this story. >> what does that say about great britain, how much it changed in the last 30 years since princess diana walked down the aisle. >> enormously. a lot of people don't remember that wedding at all, people younger than us. they say this will be one of the great occasions for them, too. >> how will this wedding reflect the times this country is enduring right now? >> we're having terrible austerity measures put on us for financial considerations and this will be a much less expensive wedding. there are police and security, we have 46 foreign royals coming so you have to have a lot of security there but not pushing the boat out financially. however, 5,500 parties will be given by ordinary people on the streets of britain across the country. that also is almost as many as 1981, a great sense of community, people coming together and meeting their neighbors and enjoying the day. >> historically, who pays for it? how much is this wedding costing and who pays for it? >> it gets split between the queen who pays for all the thing specifically to do with the wedding, flowers and abbey and the public side, security who would always be paying for that. >> how much is it costing? any idea? >> the figures some people are saying $20 million is rubbish. something probably about half that. we will know when it's all over. more like 10 than 20. >> the media are talking about this will be a great moment, down the line, the next 50, 60 years, the monarchy will slowly fade away and the analysis of surging berbery said at the end of the day in economic turmoil we're selling history and what people like to cling on to. do you sense of the monarchy with the turmoil going on, english people are claiming it. >> berbery is a great brand and what they go back to is class and values. i think what this wedding is about is class and values. the fact is britain will get over this period of us a teaust and always has in the past. >> joe, i was delighted to hear you say stopper? >> ing about this event. it's expensive, that's true. the other thing to keep in mind, 1400 serving military personnel will be processing for a period as long as four hours. these men and women have been rehearsing four weeks. i understand there is a 4:00 a.m. rehearsal one morning this week, we still don't know when that's going to be, they're trying to keep it quiet, there will be six marching bands, playing marches and show tunes. it will be a marvelous event to present pa gent t-pageantry and something of britain's royal navy presence. my father was in the royal navy. >> andrew used a perfect word to explain why this wedding works not only this year but the next decade. branding. branding for tourists. the old sex pistols line, the tourists are money, right, from god save the queen. right. >> that's one of the things that draws americans to great britain, one of the things that separates grit britain from the rest of the world. it is alluring, as you say roger, many people want a piece of history. >> would 2 billion people be tuning in on friday to watch the wedding on tv of the grandson of a british president? i think not. we need princesses and princesses for this. >> 2 billion people. >> 2 billion people expected worldwide to be watching this wedding. it's enormous. it's palpable. you can feel it here in london, palpable excitement. not that it's a bank holiday, a lovely sunny day. the fact is the guy around the corner selling memorabilia and souvenirs is totally sold out already. the press is starting to come round. you were so right when you said the media arer? >> ing abo-- are sneering aboute chances of a monarchy not being there in 30 or 50 years time. >> they were saying that when i was here in 1981 for the first time. you could have read the times of london and the "sun." fine, it will be a show and world will watch but the man narcky will be gone -- the monarchy will be gone in 25 to 30 years. >> it's good to look at this story in every perspective and characterize it in the scheme of the world and perspective and people have questions about the cost whether or not it's appropriate given the times. i think those are fair questions as we look at the perform and pageantry and the history. i've been reading about previous weddings going back centuries. it's fascinating. >> let's not pretend a president wouldn't cost any money either. anyone who took the queen's place would cost. at the moment the queen costs one pound per person per year. really, the price of a pint of beer. per person per year. >> that's a third of the price of a pint of beer. >> i think everybody could give one pound, though, toward other things, and that would be very helpful, too. >> of course. >> both of you, obviously, spent a lot of time studying diana, interviewing diana. is this not a happy ending for diana but is this not a happy chapter moving forward for her legacy? it seems to me maybe we can turn the page on that tragedy here? >> i think there's a sense of that. andrew is by far and away has much greater expertise on royal dissension and recovery than i ever would. i think there is a sense, particularly in the way william has handled the period of engagement that he has wanted to include his mother but he's also shown enormous dedication to his father. remember, when his father re-married and married a woman who, to many people at the time, was loathed, it was william and harry who showed enormous leadership and dedication to their father. >> and andrew, not only was camilla loathed, charles was loathed after diana's death. the queen even became unpopular. but this is recovery, is it not? >> it's -- that's the great thing about a monarchy, an institution, 1,000 years old. it had terrible times at the time of the abucation and times of history and had heads of state with their heads chopped off. this has to be seen in its historical context. >> we have evolved. >> the wonderful thing is this is another new chapter. >> it is. the book, "the royal house of windsor." coming up, business before the bell with erin burnett. keep it here on "morning joe," live from london. losing weight clicked for me when i lost weight right away. that weight tracker continued to go down and down and down. weight watchers online has some great tools. i just love the chinese buffet cheat sheet -- if you like the chicken and vegetables you can put a little serving here and you actually make your plate. it just blows my mind to even think i've lost 100 pounds and i have weight watchers online to thank. the fun, funkier me has come out to play. [ laughs ] [ female announcer ] hurry, join for free today. weight watchers online. finally, losing weight clicks. meet pnc virtual wallet. it comes with a calendar that shows you all your finances at once. it lets you know when your money's going out. and when it's coming in. it even tells you when you're running low. we call that danger days. it's built to help you see your money in a whole new light. experience everything virtual wallet has to offer at pncvirtualwallet.com. pnc bank. for the achiever in you. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." let's get a check on business before the bell. on the other side of the pond, cnbc's international superstar, erin burnett, live at the new york stock exchange. erin, what are we looking at ahead on wall street in the week coming up. >> i'm just lamenting i'm not there. lots of good business stories over there. let's get to what we're looking at here, though. >> hold on a second. hold on, hold on! >> i know you have cover covered -- and the toilet seats. >> willie found sick bags. >> toilet seats? >> let me tell you something, this is erin burnett territory. but you know, the tables are turned now -- you're usual usually -- we are news leads but the tables have turned. you are in rainy cold new york and we are out and about. >> you are the international superstars. >> tables have turned for just a week. she can't really have that status revoked. >> she would so hone in on the royal total seats. that would have been the first thing. if their were a camel with a union jack. >> camels. >> no doubt about it. >> international superstar, erin burnett stuck on cold rainy wall street. >> that is correct. all right. the tables have turned in so many ways. what gorgeous weather you have. it looks so wonderful there. we have a few things this weekend. they're really important. ben bernanke speaking, history making, questions and answers after the fact decision very important in light of the fact we have gasoline prices at $3.88 a gallon. he's taking questions from reporters which will be an amazing thing to watch on wednesday ahead of the first look how quickly the economy grew in the first quarter. that number is pretty grim. we could have dropped from a rate of 3.1% to shy of 2%, really an economy in complete stall mode. the reason for that would be the aforementioned gasoline prices at $3.88 a gallon. we will get a sense from ben bernanke and take tough questions what the rising gas prices mean and put the brakes on making it harder to borrow money and pulling back on the unprecedented financial easing in the market. the key story of the week. we're getting nearly 40% of the companies in this country reporting earnings, obviously always important but we will see what they say about gas prices, i'll talk about that and amazon. >> who are you looking at this week with reportings you think will indicate where this economy is going? >> there will be a lot. ford, in terms of buying cars, whether people are doing that and whether they have pricing power. we have seen auto prices rising. also, i would say amazon, simply because they sell everything and have become the dominant retailer in this country. >> is that not amazing, you drive around the country and seeing these huge bookstore chains that destroyed smaller bookstores now going out of business because amazon is feasting on them. >> it's true. it's kind of sad because some of the best books i have ever found have been stumbling on a book in a bookstore. i'm going on the thing i'm only buying in bookstores. i don't want them to go away. >> that's good. i agree with you on that. >> comic bookstores. love those. >> you have great bookstores in london, joe. >> we will find them. >> erin, coming up -- >> chris is screaming at us now. >> i was about to promote his book but i will not now. >> we will not. >> because i always get so upset when i think about it, too. >> it's such a sad book. >> when it it going to be released, chris? >> may 24th. >> i'm so excited. ♪ it's a new day i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ and i'm feeling good go on, join for free. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. it's got a calculator. thanks, dad. this is the neighborhood. you get elm street and you get main street. thank you. and that's just the first quarter. so you want a slide in your office ? or monkey bars, either one. more small businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier. where's susie ? is she expecting you ? because they know the small business with the best technology rules. and here's what we did today in homes all across america: we created the electricity that powered the alarm clocks and brewed the coffee. we heated the bathwater and gave kelly a cleaner ride to school. cooked the cube steaks and steamed the veggies. entertained dad, and mom, and a neighbor or two. kept watch on the house when they slept. and tomorrow we could do even more. we're cleaner, domestic, abundant and ready now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power today. learn more at anga.us. welcome back to "morning joe." in 1993, the tanznyian born son of a diplomat earned his degree from the college of art and now he's turned into an starke tte. sorry about that script. >> he's a star. >> now taking the world by storm, the national museum of african-american history of museum and culture scheduled to be built in the national mall by the national monument. >> first, roger bennett explained to us how he is guilty. >> what. >> honored to have you in our loving arms, not just an starketech. and obe. explain what that is. >> officer of the british empire. >> we've ratcheted up the class level on this show. you've met the queen. what did she say to you. >> she was very pleasant. >> does she watch "morning joe"? >> i'm knot not so sure. >> are you sure? >> i think she does. >> i know she does. >> martin -- >> please! >> sorry. >> explain, if you will, just how fabulous he is and how transformative his work is. >> david's responsible for probably one of the most brilliant new buildings in london, the white chapel design museum, the ideas store. if you look around where we're sitting now, there isn't a building, i think, that wasn't built in the last or the previous by two centuries. but david's designs have been described by many people in the field as bringing together the magnificent history of british architecture. but with a sting of modernity. >> what is the challenge designing buildings in a city like london. >> how do you do that? >> london has great tradition and history. when you are designing in london, you have the weight of the city on you. you have to live up to the challenge of what the city founders made of this incredible city. you have to build with sustainability in mind and great materials and detail. london is about exquisite detail. not forgetting that when you do is really important about architecture. >> you came to america with that great project in washington d.c. >> a very important project at the moment still going on. it will be finished in 2015, started two years ago. >> you're from tanzania, and how is it to be working on such a be jewelled american museum? >> it was a great honor to win the competition, international competition against probably the great architects you know. i found a team between myself and american partners, we're called "the fab team," and we presented to the smithsonian border and competition jury and we were lucky to win. it was an amazing moment. >> is it's easier to build or design a building in the united states where it seems a bit more free formed than say in london? >> free form is one way to put it. >> yes. >> i think building on the mall is probably the most strangest place i have ever worked. >> why is that? >> the mall is hallowed ground, the core of america in terms of architecture, the place founding fathers placed, and identity of america. building on the mall is talking about the history of america and where it wants to project itself to the future. >> you were talking earlier about the class system of britain and the royal family and kate middleton being a commoner. david actually is an example how somebody is who an ordinary immigrant individual, who came to this country, has become probably one of the nation's greatest individuals in terms of art and design in the 21st century. he did that in britain with what you described as the class system. i don't think you should hog that area too much. hawk that area too much. britain people can be as inspirational and mobile in the class system as americans. >> martin, first, thank you for putting words in my mouth. >> mika told me to say it. >> did she really? so what are your feelings about britain? you are obviously a great success story. we do hear in the states it is harder to become upwardly mobile in a culture where, if your family hasn't been in the windsor family for three centuries, you're called a "commoner." >> a little harder. britain doesn't have some of the great emancipation laws you have in america, the civil rights movement in america was amazing. some of those things have been followed in europe and we love them here. but europe, its colonial relationship to its colonies meant actually there's a kind of -- another kind of relationship which sometimes can be difficult but also can be very supportive. >> this is a culture in transition, though? >> yeah. i was bornin tanzania. we travel around west africa and middle east and i have this rounded upbringing. >> that's a world view. thank you. we'll be right back. we all have one. that perfect spot. a special place we go to smooth out the ripples of the day. it might be off a dock or on a boat. upstream or in the middle of nowhere. wherever it may be, casting a line in the clear, fresh waters of michigan lets us leave anything weighing us down back on shore. our perfect spot is calling. our perfect spot is pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org. ♪ [ male announcer ] doctors have been saying it forever. let's take a look. but they've never actually been able to do it like this. let's take a look. v-scan from ge healthcare. a pocket sized imaging device that will help change the way doctors see patients. that's better health for more people. 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[ male announcer ] wells fargo. with you when you're ready to move. welcome back to "morning joe," live from trafalgar square in london where we will be all week. half the fun for a lot of people at these royal weddings is collecting the bizarre memorabilia that comes with an event of this size and scope. many brits still have their 30-year-old charles and diana commemorative china hanging in their dining rooms. i went out yesterday to find the strangest of the strange for this royal wedding. with 30 years to shake off the hangover from the last royal wedding bender, great britain is dressed up and ready to do it again. >> the royal wedding, it's interesting. >> absolutely brilliant. so glad it's happening. >> i think it's lovely, great for the country. >> reporter: you can see why the brits are excited. they get a nuprin cess out of the deal. we visitors have to settle for bringing home crap like this. there are the souvenir mug, silver spoons and fine china you'd expect to see. for the discriminating memorabilia collector, there is so much more. why not northrop the handsome new couple with a fashionable will and kate seat for your own throne. or what better way to show your appreciation for history, dignity and class of the british monarchy by picking up a shot glass, lighter and ashtray. of course, you will want to beer to chase that royal shot. the choice here this wedding week is kiss me kate pale ale. hold on, those beers won't chill themselves. let ge's will and kate side by side refrigerator do the job for you. works great as long as you don't mind giant murals of two people you never met staring at you for the rest of your life. >> how's that. >> reporter: save the milk for skreerl because you will remember them every time you crunch into royal os or special cereal. would you ever feed this to your beautiful young child. >> i'd have to check the content first. >> reporter: it has will on the front. sure it's fine. no, prince william did not put a ring on your finger. that doesn't mean you can't walk around town wearing a knockoff of the real thing yours for as little as $29.99. >> it is very special. revenue safe sex this is kind of thing you will never want to forget and you won't thanks to these commemorative condoms. you're not selling condoms? i think it's disgusting. >> reporter: if all this hype makes you feel disgusted, good news, the royal sick bag. now your collection is complete. >> let me tell you, i had the will-o cereal this morning, i feel more important already. here's your business travel forecast. i'm bill karins, we will have numerous thunderstorms and afternoon delays in boston and new york, same tore detroit and chicago. the worst is from dallas to st. louis, indianapolis, also little rock, you could see strong storms. looks like we're okay on the west coast. the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. 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