Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20091218

because things went so well the last time he was there. and also coming up, howard dean has unlikely supporters as the white house continues their assault, and it is 1998 all over again? why bill clinton and monica lewinsky are back in the news again. >> oh, lord. >> and we have savannah guthrie joining the conversation from washington. nice job on "way too early." i was watching. >> thank you. >> do you think she did well? >> yeah. it was great. >> i thought it was awful. maybe we were watching different shows. >> yeah, right. front page "washington post," new poll numbers on america's growing skepticism on the president, global warming, scientists and global warming. bad news for those that believe the world is getting warmer for man-made reasons. we'll talk to dr. saks about that and talk to john meacham about tiger woods. >> a natural connection. >> it's on the cover. >> still on the cover. >> did i tell you what your wife said to me about that? >> no, you didn't. >> she said i told john -- >> i'm not sure this is the forum for it. >> i told john no matter how close he cropped the picture of tiger woods, it was still a story about tiger woods. that did not make it art. >> yeah, she's got lots of views. >> as she should. maybe you should listen to her, meacham. >> i tried to explain to her the difference. it is art. the difference between pornography and art? lighting. and the difference between "new york post" and "newsweek?" lighting. >> we have david gregory and lawrence o'donnell. crazy lawrence will be here. are you okay with that? >> yeah. we've got the stun gun. live pictures from copenhagen. the president is running several hours behind schedule after arriving early this morning. the president's comments are being delayed in order to attend a multilateral meeting of 19 other leaders. they have yet to reach an agreement in continued disputes between developing countries and emerging nations. >> let's go to savannah guthrie who is extraordinarily rude to me. >> what does the president need to come back with from copenhagen? the front page of "the washington post" says americans are ambivalent at best on this issue. is he playing to america or the world? >> he would think that he's working for america. it's a world stage right now and they have blown up the whole schedule in copenhagen today. he was supposed to meet two hours ago, and instead is meeting with world leaders and so far these copenhagen talks are a model of chaos, and obama is trying to get these leaders together and broker some kind of deal. >> model of chaos, what do you mean? i've heard that three times this morning. >> i thought i invented that. >> what is going on at these talks? why are they so chaotic? >> the hopes there would be a binding legal agreement come out of this. it became clear a month ago that wouldn't happen. so they said let's come up with an political agreement. let's agree to agree, on emissions and funding for developing countries. a lot of them say, wait a minute, sure weary mi're emitti greenhouse gases and we can't cripple our economies trying to mitigate. we want the accomplished countries, the rich countries frankly, like america, to fork over some cash. there's that issue, the targets issue, getting china and india on board and as far as we understand, there wasn't a real agreement in hand. this isn't where this is done and done, where everybody does the grip and grin. there is actual, genuine suspension here, whether anything will get done. >> all right. >> that's the problem with progressives. they don't calculate it all out, you know. it's not cold and calculated and harsh. we have dr. jeffrey saks here. is he the expert. >> well, he is. that's why he's here. it helps. clearing a critical hurd nell congress this morning, senate democrats managed to block republican resistance. the early morning vote clears the way for lawmakers to give final approval on saturday for the $626 billion measure. republicans were trying to filibuster the bill in an effort to delay the health care recommendations lags. a top military officer is confirming reports that militants hacked into feeds of military drones. >> you can believe this? we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on these predators and our enemies go to radioshack and get $30, seriously, worth of equipment and hack into it. usa. >> not good. not good. >> no words he has. >> admiral mike mullen says while the hacken caused no significant military damage, it raised deep concerns -- >> how do we know that? who would ever believe the pentagon on something like that? oh, this caused no damage -- how do they know that? >> the security breach has since been fixed. >> and you remember, this was part of a -- there was a big contingent in the debate over afghanistan that this was the way to go, that the drone war far, counterterror, not counterinsurgency. >> and by the way that is the future. as we all know, that's where it will end up. >> the question of whether you can get a stronger base from which to start having your drones that are hacked into. >> do they need to call hbo? when i was growing up in upstate new york, i would try to unscramble the signal to watch "r" rated movies and i couldn't do it. >> if you were an enemy of america, we would be safe. that would be good. chairman ben per nbernanke bracing for a heated debate. the senate banking committee has backed bernanke for another four-year term. despite opposition, bernanke, who is "time" magazine's most powerful nerd on the planet is expected to be confirmed. i don't think that's what "time" magazine said, but, okay. brazil's supreme court is delaying the return of a 9-year-old boy to his american father until it considers a petition that the boy's testimony be heard in the custody case. the ruling suspends wednesday's judgment that shawn goldman be returned to his father, david. the court goes into recess tomorrow, and a ruling is not expected until at least february. the boy will remain in the custody of his brazilian relatives until then. and homicide detectives are now investigatesing the death of bengals receiver chris henry. he died on thursday after suffering severe head injuries after a domestic dispute with his fiancee. he fell from a moving pickup truck after trying to prevent the woman from driving away. and the white house is saying that howard dean has no influence on the health care bill. he says -- but howard dean is getting help from senator john mccain. take a listen. >> i now find myself in complete agreement with dr. howard dean. who says we should stop this bill in its tracks, go back to the beginning, and have an overall bipartisan agreement. dr. dean, i am with you. >> oh, my! >> okay. >> somewhere in vermont, dr. dean just threw up a little bit in his mouth. >> that's the john mccain we all knew and loved. the spirit of that. he just threw in the wink. >> stick it to them while he's smiling. >> enjoying the fight. >> sure. join the fight. >> howard dean has obviously gotten under the white house's skin. and if they think he has no influence in this health care debate, they are whistling past the graveyard, john. >> there are three or four people who have this fate of this enormous industry in their hands, and what -- what will it be? will it be something like the dean criticism? will it be ben nelson and abortion? what will -- what will be the issue that brings it up short? >> and if you're worried about blanche lincoln, ben nelson, worried about these three or four moderates. listen, don't attack me for being too conservative. you have howard dean saying this won't control costs. savannah guthrie, the white house obviously concerned about howard dean not going off message. >> they claim to not be, but it's one of those occasions where you say they may doth protest too much. gibbs seemed to relish the opportunity to put dean in his place. there's no love lost here. they didn't give him a job in the administration, pushed him out as chair of the dnc. dean laid out the roadmap on how to do a grassroots presidential campaign. it does irritate them. because it's at this key moment when finally the president thought he got this fractious democratic caucus in line and dean is spinning everybody up and saying this is not real reform, and liberals, it's better to pass nothing, and let's try reconciliation, resurrecting all of these arguments from two months ago, but at the moment, it doesn't seem like it's having an affect on elected progressives, and that's the bottomline. >> and ben nelson concerned about abortion language. we'll talk about that a little bit. but i want to move to climate change and what's going on in copenhagen. do you see "the washington post" polls that came out this morning? >> i haven't seen them. >> a couple of things up. approval. >> this is approval of barack obama on climate change. up to 61% in april. and now down to 45%. trusting scientists, that has collapsed. obviously this memogate or whatever they call it. >> e-mailgate. >> e-mailgate has had an impact, and obviously less americans want to do something on climate change if it's going to xwaimpa the economy. >> people are worried about unemployment. but they've got the timing wrong on this. because whatever we do on climate change is setting a path for 25 years. it's not really about next month, next year. it's what's the future of our energy industry? what's the future of the automobile industry? so people are saying, i don't want to think about this -- i don't even want to believe it, because i'm worried about my job. more jobs will be created if we get serious about this than if we wreck the planet. >> that's over the next quarter century than over the next quarter of 2010. i look at the numbers and you see them plummeting. i don't think it's the e-mails. i don't think it's americans -- i think they want the president to focus on jobs. we'll worry about this when the economy is growing at 4% is what they are saying. >> exactly. but the world is going on and that's -- we can't determine the whole agenda for climate and for the world. and that's the problem. you know, many things are happening at the same time. people are overwhelmed. >> just quickly, it's a debate we talk about in the wrong terms i think. it seems like a rich man's problem, climate change, when really it could be an engine of economic growth. >> absolutely. >> i don't think that's been articulated very well. >> like many things, he hasn't set out, where is the vision? where are we going? it's this small negative stuff. what kind of tax, who is going to pay? and it looks pretty grimy and that's the problem. coming up next, monica lewinsky. >> that's -- >> i'm just reporting. apparently she's ready to relive the '90s. >> they were bad enough the first time. >> they were. >> her new accusations against president clinton. and the john mccain name crossout. why sarah palin is cutting her vacation short. and did the colts come back? we have your thursday night action in the nfl. >> what night don't they play football these days? >> every night is football night. a major winter storm to tell you about. let's go to bill karins for a check on the forecast. bill. >> good friday morning. this storm, as advertised, will impact 30 million people over the next two days. the worst of it this morning, alabama, georgia, into areas of florida. once it hits the cold air over the next two days, we have what we call winter storm warnings from roanoke to washington, d.c., baltimore, philadelphia and we have a blizzard watch for long island. this is going to be a big storm for all of the high populated areas. this region here of 6 to 12 inches is widespread through the mid-atlantic through southern jersey. what does this mean for the big cities. let's break it down here. snowfall forecast. d.c., this is about a once in five-year snowstorm, 8 to 12 inches. baltimore, 6 to 10. philadelphia, 4 to 8. new york city, on the northern fringe, 3 to 6. it could easily go down or up. it's right on the border. bull's-eye is washington, d.c. keep watching tonight into tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ oh don't you look back trying to sort out what health reformeans to seniors? a law. , to probit cuts to medicare benefits none standing beeen you d youroctor. and no increas in the defic. reform will cover prentive care. helpse the micare prescription gap, like ending duplication ofests and other waste. praised by doctors, nurses, and senior groups. it's reform at works for all of us. the timing is awkward, but tiger woods was named athlete of the year by the associated press. and his caddy was named man of the year by wingman magazine. >> time to take a look at the morning papers, meacham. "wall street journal" showdown at climate talks. and "the new york times." president obama leaving the oval office, heading to copenhagen. things don't go well when he goes to copenhagen. and russia and the u.s. are close to a treaty to trim their vast nuclear arsenal. "usa today." recession takes holiday toll. tenants given minutes to evacuate as large chunks of the cliff fall into the ocean. time for politico. here now, the editor in chief of politico. >> you have vandehei here. who is in charge? we run the damn paper. >> i'm in charge today. i'm in control here. >> john harris. thank you for joining us. >> i thought mike allen was running a coup. >> you lowered a bar here with the stories you are bringing to the table. >> this is kind of sleazy, john. >> this is like "washington post." >> the monica lewinsky news? >> we have all of this serious news, global warming, health care. we'll give you a little time travel to the 1990s. when washington was entertaining. and kind of like an acid flash black for some people. a law professor at duquesne university. he has written what he hopes and i'm sure will be the comprehensive history between ken starr and bill clinton. all through the '90s, he said wait until the history books are written. neither of them come out superwell. >> okay. >> i know i've been wondering when the definitive history of monica lewinsky would be written. is there a clamoring for this? >> some of us are junkies. >> you wrote an incredible book. >> i wrote a book. >> monica says clinton lied. that's not new. >> among the revelations in this book -- well, she says on the record that bill clinton lied to the grand jury. if she said that at the time it would have been a huge story. more stanttively, there is new evidence that ken starr's deputy's according to a justice department appointed attorney who look introduced this, said they actually pressed it is line on the procedures right at the start of this investigation. remember when they questioned monica lewinsky? she would like to speak to her lawyer and they kept questioning her. that raises real serious legal questions that are being explored in this book. >> jon meacham would like to jet back to 1990. >> as a great fan of "survivor," a great book on bill clinton history. if this happened, would he have been convicted by the senate? >> if this happened in real time, this would be different. remember judge wright? judge susan wright in little rock? if she would have thrown the book at bill clinton at any time, and the author says she had that in her power to say she was in criminal contempt. that would have been real trouble. in the closing days of bill clinton's presidency, they reached a deal and this is a pretty dramatic moment. time running out on the presidency. the new prosecutor, robert ray, not ken star, says i'm going to indict you the second you leave office unless we cut a deal and you admit that you gave misleading testimony and volunteer to give up your law license. >> moving on to sarah palin, because there was this big issue with the visor. >> i can't wait for the politico tiger woods story after this. >> editor and chief of politico. my god. a bunch of dirt. she had to cut her vacation short. play do tell why. >> well, she -- there was controversy. she was seen wearing a cap, that said mccain/palin or just mccain and she blacked out. took a sharpie and blacked out the mccain and there were reports that people read a lot into it. is she making a break from her running mate. she said, no. i was just trying to go to hawaii and stay incognito on my vacation. you have ruined it, we're going home. >> so it's the media's fault? >> i guess some of. >> governor palin is known for wanting to be incognito. >> and that would be a way to do it. put on a visor that says mccain on it, cross it out, and walk around in public. >> when you sell this many books, you can buy a visor that that doesn't say mccain. >> i'm going to get slammed. i shouldn't have done that. >> you have lowered the bar. give me something boring that will put me to sleep on global warming. >> david rogers story, about the overnight vote in washington on this vote. standoff over defense funding. you'll talk about it this morning. great details in that story. >> got some news. okay. >> 92 years old, being wheeled into the senate. overnight as they break the republican filibuster. good and substantive too. >> politico's john harris, great to see you. come back. >> thank you very much. coming up, indianapolis would need another fourth quarter comeback to stay undefeated. thursday night action in the nfl, next in sports. ♪ is nuts! any ideas? alright, best buy. 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better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol more than any other brand of pain reliever. live look at the sun coming up just over new york city. time for a look at today's top stories. live pictures now from copenhagen, where climate talks are said to be in serious disarray this morning. president obama set to address the conference more than two hours ago, the speech is delayed to meet with 19 world leaders. they are trying to hammer out an agreement between healwealthy a developing nations. we'll follow that and be talking about that coming up. 35 years after being sentenced to prison for a crime he did not commit, a florida man is celebrating his freedom this morning. 54-year-old james bain released on thursday after dna testing approved he was wrongly convicted of rape and kidnapping. bain is expected to be compensated $1.75 million for the time he spent in jail. now we go back to copenhagen, because the president is heading to the stage, where he will be speaking before world leaders about climate change. here is president obama. >> distinguished group of leaders from around the world. climate change opposes a great and growing concern to our people. all of you would not be here unless you, like me, were convinced that this danger is real. this is not fiction. it is science. unchecked, climate change will oppose risk to our security, our economies, and our planet. this much we know. the question then before us is no longer the nature of the challenge. the question is our capacity to meet it. for while the reality of climate change is not in doubt, i have to be honest as the world watches us today. i think our ability to take collective action is in doubt right now. and it hangs in the balance. i believe we can act boldly and decisively in the face of a common threat. that's why i come here today, not to talk, but to act. now, as the world's largest economy, and as the world's second largest emitter, america bears our responsibility to address climate change. and we intend to meet that responsibility. that's why we have renewed our leadership within international climate change negotiations. that's why we've worked with other nations to phase out fossil fuel subsidies. that's why we've taken bold action at home, by making historic investments in renewable energy. by putting people to work, increasing efficiency in homes and buildings and pursuing comprehensive legislation to transform to a clean energy economy. these mitigation actions are am patien bishs, and we're taking them not just to meet global responsibilities. we are convinced, as some of you may be convinced, that changed the way we produce and use energy is essential to america's economic future. that it will create millions of new jobs, power new industries, keep us competitive, and spark new innovation. we're convinced, for our own self-interests, that the way we use energy, changing it to a more efficient fashion, is essential to our national security, because it helps to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. it helps us deal with some of the dangers posed by climate change. so i want this plenary session to understand. america will continue on this court of action to mitigate our emissions and move toward a clean energy economy, no matter what happens here in copenhagen. we think it is good for us, as well as good for the world. but we also believe that we will all be stronger, all be safer, all be more secure if we act together. that's why it is in our mutual interests to achieve a global accord on which we agree to certain steps and hold each other accountable to certain commitments. after months of talk, after two weeks of negotiations, after imnumb able side meetings, bilateral meetings, endless hours of discussion, among negotiators. i believe that the pieces of that accord should now be clear. first, all major economies must put forward desissive actions that will reduce emissions and begin to turn the corner on climate change. i'm pleased that many of us have already done so. almost all of the major economies have put forward legitimate targets, significant targets, ambitious targets. and i'm confident american will fulfill the commitments we have made, cutting emissions in the range of 60% by 2020. second, we must have a mechanism to review whether we are keeping our commitments and exchange this information in a transparent manner. these need not be intrusive or infringe upon sovereignty. they must, however, ensure that an accord is credible and we're living up to our mutual obligations. without such an accountability, any agreement would be empty words on a page. i don't know how you have an international agreement where we all are not sharing information and ensuring we are meeting our commitments. that doesn't make sense. it would be a hollow victory. number three. we must have financing that helps developing countries adapt, particularly the least developed and most vulnerable countries to climate change. america will be a part of a fast start funding that will ramp up to $10 billion by 2012. and yesterday secretary hillary clinton, my secretary of state, made it clear we will engage in a global effort to mobilize $100 billion in financing by 2020. if and only if it is part of a broader accord that they've just described. mitigation, transparency, financing. it's a clear formula. one that embraces the principle of common, but differentiated responses and respective capabilities. and it adds up to a significant accord. one that takes us farther than we have ever gone before as an international community. i just want to say to the -- this plenary session that we are running short on time. and at this point, the question is, whether we will move forward together or split apart. whether we prefer posturing to action. i'm sure that many consider this an imperfect framework that i just described. no country will get everything that it wants. there are those developing countries that want aid with no strings attached. and no obligations with respect to transparency. they think that the most advanced nations should pay a higher price. i understand that. there are those advanced nations who think that developing countries either cannot absorb this assistance or will not be held accountable effectively, and the world's fastest growing emitters should bear a greater share of the burden. we know the fault lines, because we've been imprisoned by them for years. these international discussions have essentially taken place now for almost two decades. and we have very little to show for it, other than an increased acceleration of the climate change phenomenon. the time for talk is over. this is the bottom line. we can embrace this accord, take a substantial step forward, continue to refine it, and build upon its foundation. we can do that, and everyone who is in this room will be part of an historic endeavor, one that makes life better for our children and grandchildren, or we can choose delay. falling back into the same divisions that have stood in the way of action for years. and we will be back, having the same, stale arguments, month after month, year after year, perhaps decade after decade, all while the danger of climate change grows until it is irreversible. ladies and gentlemen, there's no time to waste. america's made our choice. we have chartered our course, made our commitments, we will do what we say. now i believe it's the time for the nations and the people of the world to come together, behind a common purpose. we are ready to get this done today. but there has to be movement on all sides. to recognize that it is better for to us act than to talk. it's better for to us choose action over inaction, the futurofuture o over the past and with courage and faith, i believe we can meet our responsibilities to our people and the future of our planet. thank you very much. >> all right. saying he came to copenhagen, not to talk, but to act. making the case for acting collectively around the world. he says the danger is real, notification. it is science. but he says the ability to take collective action is in doubt. the president also made the case that if they worked together on this for americans, the united states, this effort could lead to job creation. it could work in terms of long-term goals. but, again, he stressed that this depends on collaboration. let's turn to our panel. dr. jeffrey sachs, are you an expert on this. the president says we're running short on time. and he put it out to the world. we can't do this without you. what are the road blocks to collective action? >> the basics have been on the table for two years. the negotiations really were like not doing your homework for -- for two years, but one week and then the last week, a group of countries is trying to say this is the bottom line. so basically the president didn't offer anything new today compared to what's been discussed for months. he's saying this is what the u.s. is going to do, and you should sign on basically take it or leave it, because this is it. it's interesting how it's going to play in there. of course, i admire the president for taking the lead, given opposition he faces in this country. but hearing it from the point of view of the rest of the world much of the rest of the cold that holds a treaty, where the united states made strong promises, and many other countries made strong promises that were not fulfilled. they will hear this and say, you know, that's the same we've been hearing. so it's really a mixed picture. the president didn't offer something new to make it clear. but maybe they'll be able to cobble together an agreement. but it's a little like health care and the rest. you feel, oh -- we talk, we talk, we talk, but we're not really listening to each other very effectively. >> how do we have a meaningful agreement if china the largest emitter of greenhouse gases subsequent i call, dragging their feet. and growing skepticism in the united states among the population? >> the issue really is not china here. the issue is really the poorer countries. that's what's permeating this whole country. 17 years ago, the u.s. signed an agreement, along with other wealthy countries, we will help finance the control of climate change. we never did that. the developing countries are saying, you know, what are you talking about? so secretary clinton came yesterday and said we'll work towards a goal for 2020, somehow to get $100 billion to you. and they are saying what? a decade from now? what does that mean? this is the essence of it. it's not china. >> let's bring in bill press right now. bill, i want to show a couple of polls, including a poll talking about the united states spending money on this. this is "washington post," front page today. we've already talked about the president's handling of global warming, dropped from 61% in the spring to 45% now. trusting scientists about the environment, 29% trust, 49% do not trust. that's not good. and now here, going to our plan. how does that make you feel, dr. sachs. and to give developing countries $10 billion a year. what dr. sachs was just talking about, 39% support, 57% oppose. the president, al gore, global warming champions, all upside down with the american electorate. what's going on? >> first of all, good to see you. i hope we never get to the -- maybe we are there. i hope we never get to the points where all of our decisions are based on the daily polls in "the washington post" or "the new york times." i don't think they reflect necessarily what we ought to do. they reflect the confusion of the people at any given moment, given so much back and forth on this issue. i think we're missing the big picture. >> if the president was sitting at 61% like he was in february rather than at 41% now, treading water. isn't is he limited? >> it would be easy and maybe unfair analogy i would go back. fdr looked at the polls, we would never entered world war ii. the american people were 80% against it. i think we're missing the big picture here, which to me is significant. under copenhagen, under bill clinton and george bush we did nothing. now we've got the president there and the secretary of state, the speaker, speaker pelosi, and he gave a damn good and straight talk speech. i would like to hear him give this on health care in in country. it's time to stop talking and start acting and here is what you need to do, boom, boom, boom. >> i heard you and jeffrey sachs talking. >> high-brow stuff. >> after talking about what football games to bet on this weekend, you talked about the irony, this president, the most ubiquitous, wasn't able to cut through the noise on climate change? >> i think a very interesting question about this year and obama, is how a president has not been able to translate a cultural ubiquity to more public support and more clarity about that which he is seeking support for. i still think that if you grabbed people off the street and said what is really in this health care bill, hell, if you grabbed people off the floor of the house and asked them, they would not know. climate change, with due respect to my colleagues at "the post," 61% of americans approve of obama's handling of global warming in april because he hadn't done anything. i agree with scientists, because i like scientists be unpopular as journalists. >> you said earlier, you don't think the president is delivering this message clearly. >> joe, let me come back to one thing to explain how the rest of the world views this. we signed a treaty 17 years ago that says developed countries will provide new financial resources to meet the agreed full costs. now, the rest of the world looks at this as a legal treaty that was committed to by george bush sr., ratified by the u.s. senate. they waited 17 years and then they're told, well, 2020, maybe somehow, some way, something. and then here people get indignant. i'm not giving money to anything. and there's such a disconnect between how the world feels about these things, whether these words mean anything, and how we want to phrase it. and that's really what's going on in the hall. and it's important to understand it, because we want to have our way, our say, take it or leave it. and the rest of the world feels pretty unhappy about that. >> we'll continue to cover this. president obama's speaking just moments ago in copenhagen. coming up, democrats race to find more votes for health care reform. political analyst lawrence o'donnell and moderator of "meet the press" david gregory join us. we'll be back with more "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ i drove my first car from my parent's home in the north of england to my new job at the refinery in the south. i'll never forget. it used one tank of petrol and i had to refill it twice with oil. a new car today has 95% lower emissions than in 1970. exxonmobil is working to improve cars, liners of tires, plastics which are 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(announcer) when you compare, there's no comparison. at&t. a better 3g experience. this holiday, get a touchscreen samsung solstice free after mail-in rebate. in sports, the jacksonville jaguars look to hand the colts their first loss of the season. you can never count out peyton manning. something special about manning. went down to jacksonville. this game was close until the end. in the end, though, the colts still the class of the afc. you called me last night and said, my god -- >> undefeated. >> won 35-31. a classic peyton manning comeback. you said the only thing would be more exciting this morning is if we got the three amigos on the set to talk about global warming. >> exactly. >> here they are. >> bill press when we come back, along with jeffrey sachs, jon meacham, and crazy lawrence o'donnell. he's mad as hell, and he has no reason. be right back. now you can get the latest sony bravia hdtvs, where you already save. the amazing quality of sony bravia, from the leader in unbeatable prices. save money. live better. walmart. wow! [ grunts ] oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. aah! [ door opens, closes ] wow. what's the occasion? [ male announcer ] relax. pam helps you pull it off. wow. what's the occasion? somewhere in america, there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, 69,000 people spend every day answering them. siemens. there is no time to waste. we have charted our course, we have made our commitments, and we will do what we say. now it's time for the nations and people of the world to come together behind a common purpose. we are ready to get this done today. but there has to be movement on all sides. to recognize that it is better for us to act than to talk. >> we're at the top of the hour. 7:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." joe scarborough and mika brzezinski. and your dream has come true. >> it has. oh, my god. >> we have nobel prizes falling out of the pocket. here he is. you loved him as a kid. >> i didn't ask for that. >> loved him as a kid, trust him as a mother, law ren o'donnell. >> i didn't predict the liberal revolt. i actually saw your show yesterday. quite a parade from howard dean to arianna. >> wasn't it something? >> this is a very surprising turn. >> howard dean, arianna. who was the third? >> mr. keith olbermann. ed schultz. and i was really taken on by the intensity between ed and david axlerod. david, when talking to republicans, was pretty calm. but you could hear the edge in the voice, are you kidding me? progressives are the ones we have to fight? it's gotten much worse than even you predicted. you were pretty gloomy. >> i have never seen how you can pass this bill. i'm the one person that comes on and says i don't know how to do it. i tried and discovered how impossible it was. and i still don't see how you do it. but there's something i like about this. seeing ed schultz go against david axlerod like that. you know this is the presidency that ed schultz voted for. but he is willing to criticize when he moves off base. we didn't see that same kind of inten intensity coming out of fox news channel when republicans were moving away from republican ideals this is a healthy dissent that's going on. >> i guess lawrence was on my show, he didn't listen to what i had to say. >> well, no. he listens to everything you say. >> i said fox news. i didn't say scarborough country. they were policing the ideals of republicanism. >> amen. all the people said -- >> let's get to news. >> let's do news. a lot going on. copenhagen, health care, ben nelson is hiding like blanche lincoln and a lot of other moderates in the senate, behind the bloody body of joe lieberman who is taking bullets for everybody. we'll talk about that too, how grim the look is for health care reform. >> live pictures where we begin this morning from copenhagen. president obama just wrapped up his remarks. he called on other world leaders to act together. he called for greater transparency, saying the world's commitment to the issue "hangs in the balance." >> i just want to say to the -- this plenary session, that we are running short on time. and at this point, the question is whether we will move forward together or split apart. whether we prefer posturing to action. >> so -- >> jeffrey sachs, your response to the president's speech and american's growing skepticism with global warming? >> he's put the marker down this is as far as the u.s. is going to go. there is a lot of disappointment in the room. whether they reach agreement or not. on the u.s. side, people are confused basically. >> look at this number here. and i'm dead serious here. this has got to be depressing to you. 29% of americans trust scientists on the environment. 40% do not trust scientists on the environment. what's going on here, dr. sachs. i trust you. >> there is a revolt of everyone that dropped out of chemistry i guess. i don't know. >> that would be me. >> the science -- the science doesn't matter, and the science doesn't care about that. the science is right, and the public is worried, and they are confused is the basic point. they are just confused. >> what do you mean they are confus confused? barnacle comes on the air and say they are confused. it's his way of saying they don't agree with me. >> or they don't care. >> they are worried about jobs and there's a shouting michig i going on. people still do say we should act. that's interesting. there still is a base here, because at the core, while people are worried about today, they are also worried about what is happening in the climate. everybody feels it all over the country and all over the world that something wrong is happening. >> yes. absolutely. >> they do want action, but the debate in the hall of copenhagen and the senate is we signed a treaty 17 years ago and there's been no action until now, and that's a serious problem. >> the question i have, and this poll is incomplete. if they don't trust the scientists who do they trust on the environment? >> they don't trust anybody. >> do they trust the politicians, the talk show hosts? who do they trust? >> i think the problem is, and we talked about this last time when we talked about climategate is the fact that there are a lot of people out there in america who look at the scientists as right now political hacks. in this area, people who were treating this like a religion instead of a science that there is no skepticism. in large part, that's had to do with the fact that if you have any skepticism at all about this issue, you are mowed down in the mainstream media. >> rightfully so. >> and there you go. >> no, i just -- >> can you say with certainty -- and i do believe -- i do believe in global warming and and i believe it's caused by 6 billion, 7 billion people. >> so you're part of the club, joe. >> i'm part of the small, elitist club. but what's wrong with somebody saying prove it to me? >> there's nothing wrong with that. >> but we're not having that discussion. when we call people buffoons if they ask that question. >> i don't know who says that. look, i'm a layman in this. i'm not a scientist. >> thank god. >> when i see the pictures of these glaciers, they are gone when you look at the arctic ice pack, it's gone or shrinking at any rate. >> because we're not scientists. >> the layers thickening on the south pole. >> you know exon spent years and years and millions to try and discredit this out of vested interest. and "the wall street journal" is on a reckless campaign. they don't have a scientist on their editorial board. they are relentless and reckless, and it's absolutely irresponsible. that's why the public is confused. the leading newspaper in business in this country is absolutely without any -- completely irresponsible. >> is it irrational, irresponsible for somebody in middle america today to be asking that are we certain that men are causing the earth's temperature to heat up? >> i think it's the wrong question. the question is what should we be doing about it? tens of thousands of people around the world. scientists who spent their whole lives and are not part of some grand conspiracy have shown throw relentless efforts in dozens of ways from satellites to on ground measurements, what's happening on the planet. it's time to ask what do we do about it. >> that lodge sgic is the lodge i saw on bummer stickers that the bible said it, i agree with it. is it wrong for americans to want an inquiry, are we causing this? you are saying case closed. >> when george bush came into office, the first thing he did was ask the national academy of sciences for exactly that, and he got that report a couple of months later that said, yes, mr. president this is human caused climate change. that's exactly what george bush did in the first months of the administration. >> is there no scientist that is respected in this community that still has a question? or is it case closed? >> there's lots of uncertainties about the exact affects and size and what's going to happen. >> how much we're impacting it. >> exactly. >> but there is no dispute in the scientific community about human-induced climate change and that it's getting worse and because of china's growth, india's growth, the world population that the amount of these greenhouse gases going into the air and threatening us is rising. that -- everybody around the world. >> you have no idea how 6 billion, 7 billion people emitting what we emit couldn't have a negative impact on the environment. >> 6 billion tons of carbon dioxide a year right now. >> the argument obtan the other side, that's where it falls. the things that are being suggested to deal with this problem, going to a renewable energy future. these are things we ought to be doing anyway. even if, right, what the scientists are saying about global warming is wrong, the solutions that are being proposed make sense for the planet, make sense for the human race so what is the debate all about? >> it's best for america -- >> exactly. >> move forward. let's get more news in here. clearing a critical hurd nell congress, senate democrats advanced key defense spending legislation. the early morning vote clears the way for lawmakers to give final approval on saturday for the $636 billion measure. republicans were trying to filibuster the bill in an effort to delay the president's health care legislation. >> lawrence o'donnell, let's talk health care. is it dead? >> it's flailing like a fish on the dock. >> well, you know, you could have asked me that in june and i'd give you the same answer as no. i never said it's dead. i said i don't know how to pass this bill. i didn't know how in june, i didn't know how in may. the dynamics are identical to 1994. a new dynamic now, which is the revolt of the left which is absolutely fascinating and very important, because led by howard dean because of who he is. a former governor, chairman of the party, a physician. recognized by the party as an authority here. >> do you respect him for doing that? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> i was told washington hates him. i respect the guy. >> absolutely. you've been through this. you start a legislative crusade. and when i worked in the senate, i was involved in legislative crusades like this. they take a year, year and a half, sometimes longer and there comes a point where if you are really honest and look at what the thing you are doing has become, you realize oh, my god. this thing isn't what we set out to do. it's been loaded down with this, that, and the other thing. i'm not sure this can pass. i've been involved in legislative exercises where i have worked to pass it. so dean is outside of that. he's not a senator, and i think it could be different if he were a senator. if he were a senator, it may be he was gritting his teeth and voting yes. i am sure. i am absolutely sure that howard dean speaks for a minimum of a dozen democratic senators who feel about this bill the same way he does, but they will probably vote for it. >> will one of them defect? >> i doubt there will be a vote defection from the left. >> is it down to one vote? is that wrong way to look at it? >> it's been down to one vote for quite a long time and that vote shifts from week to week. lieberman -- >> if joe lieberman became the world's most progressive senator tomorrow, then it would be ben nelson. >> we've had blanche lincoln, lieberman month, ben nelson week it will keep shifting. what we don't know is how many people are, as you have put it, hiding behind them. how many senators are saying, boy, i really hope i don't have to vote on this thing. i really hope i don't have to vote on this thing. and the liebermans are the guy who's can stop it. >> i can tell you first hand, my bloody carcass had a lot of people hiding behind it who would stand up and kill me -- kill me in caucus meetings and then after the meeting would say thanks for doing this. it happens all the time. >> absolutely. lawrence, the ones i look to is tom harkin. i had him on the show yesterday and he said absolutely, we've got to go for this bill. it's not perfect. we can build on it. boom, boom, boom. the interesting thing is part of this left rebellion. i am part of that too. i wouldn't vote for this bill. how many votes can we influence? ed schultz, keith olbermann. >> you might not see it exhibited as votes. the way this thing died in '94, we were fighting it out on the senate floor, went to the august recess and when we came back from the august recess, we never took it up on the senate floor again. there comes a time in the senate where you basically just surrender and so no one has to cast that no vote, but what's happening now is you're asking us to cast this very difficult vote, really tough vote. tell me who is going to stand up and cheer? not arianna huffington. not the left. so here in the tough state where not only do you need the left to stand up and cheer for you doing this, you then need them to flood you with money in your campaign for having done this. where is the gratitude going to come from forecasting this vote? and harry reid has a difficult question. >> i make progressives angry when i go back and talk about how this year is like 1 994. i'll just go back to 2005, post-katrina, when conservatives attacked bush on katrina, on spending, on military venturism, and what happens, he still passes the bill with the republican senators who fall in line, but in '06, conservatives sit back and say i'm not giving them money, i'm not knocking on doors, not going to talk to my neighbors, i'm not going to do phone banks and republicans get wiped out. that's the danger when bill press, arianna huffington, ed schultz do this. maybe they don't influence the vote. they influence elections. in '06, and '10. >> thank you very much for being with us. >> you caused problems, bill. >> i'll say to you what republicans always said to me, you're only helping the other side. >> stand up for what you believe in. >> that's right, fight, brother. >> a preview of "meet the press." also, the freshman vs. the veteran. an unusual moment on the senate floor. senator al franken, against senator joe lieberman and savannah guthrie with this morning's gaggle. first, a major snowstorm expected to hit the east coast this weekend. let's go right to bill karins for the latist on that. >> just in time for a busy holiday travel weekend, we have new snowfall updates. first off, the storm down in the southeast. heavy rain from atlanta through florida. this is all going to translate into a big winter storm. winter storm warnings over much of western north carolina and all of the mid-atlantic. pink stripe, 6 to 12 inches of snow. west virginia, virginia, and delaware. a new update on the big city snowfall forecast. d.c., we have upped you to 10 to 14 inches of snow starting on later on tonight and all day saturday. the snow line really cuts off. does not look like a big blockbuster event for new england. 3 to 6 in new england. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. you want to watch hoops on the bus, cartoons during your big meeting, and breaking news when it breaks. watch real tv whenever you want. you don't need to get a phone. you need a phone that gets you. ♪ [ female announcer ] arthritis targets your body where it's weak. where it's vulnerable. ♪ tylenol arthritis works with your body to block the pain, without interfering with certain high blood pressure medicines like aleve sometimes can. ♪ so you don't just feel better, you feel better knowing doctors recommend tylenol more than any other brand of pain reliever. ♪ will provide an opportunity for broad savings in health care, in health insurance, for pretty much everybody in our country. >> senator. i'm sorry. sno senator has spoken for ten minutes. >> i was wondering if i could ask for additional ten minutes. >> in my capacity as senator from minnesota, i object. >> really? okay. i don't take it personally. >> that is just -- that was -- so many words to describe that moment. awkward comes to mind. lawrence o'donnell. >> never seen before. i spent a lot of years on the senate floor. i did not know that the presiding officer could do that. i thought only a member up in the body could object. but it turns out you can. >> meacham, a worth to describe the moment? >> that we have -- saturday night live" has now moved to the senate floor. >> there we go. >> in franken's defense, harry reid has told all of the presiding officers, who are all junior senators, by the way, that they must not let anyone go even one minute over because of the health care debate. >> that's what happened then. david gregory and savannah guthrie join us now. david, that altercation, shall we say, between franken and lieberman, my god? >> it's interesting to hear lawrence talk about it having worked in the senate. what's striking about senator franken is he is not bashful about trying to make a mark here in his early senate career. he has taken on issues head on. not trying to seek a big national profile, but he certainly has not been shy about working the levers of power behind the scenes there, and you saw a rather public indication of that yesterday. i mean, i think if you are a liberal senator from minnesota, i don't think the level of love you have for joe lieberman is super high right now. >> probably not. probably not. >> and, of course, no one does a better joe lieberman impression than al franken. >> so -- isn't minnesota, though -- it would seem to me there would be other states. new york, illinois, vermont. david, where this would be safer than minnesota. minnesota, they're pretty independent. i wouldn't think they like flashy or showy politicians. jesse ventura, look at him. >> yeah, yeah. >> low key. but, seriously, this -- the senate is such a small place, doesn't this always come back to bite you? won't lieberman be looking for a chance to zing him? >> i'm sure he will. i'm sure he will. again, i think franken is charting out a course that's kind of true to the liberal base that got him elected in minnesota, and he's -- you know, he's not shy about what he's trying to do in the senate. and i think you saw that play out yesterday. i think there's a real -- there's a bigger theme here this week about what's going on in the democratic party and this is a small piece of it here. this is a party in power that is going through the rigors of governing during a very difficult time for the country, and there are progressives michalike al franken, like howard dean, want to see an agenda move, and they don't like so much is riding on the likes of joe lieberman. lieberman, 51st senator for the democrats and here he is in '09 as a progressive senator. democrats are not happy about that. >> savannah, there seems to be, even what we had on the show yesterday, somewhat of a liberal revolt of the health care plan. it started howard dean, but we're hearing a lot of voices saying kill that bill. how is the white house responding? >> they are trying to keep democrats together and hope that the liberal angst on the blogs, howard dean on every show will not translate to the weakening of the knees of some of the progressive senators who actually have to cast this difficult vote and i think that's actually what's interesting about this lieberman/franken moment yesterday. if you ask the franken folks, they say this wasn't a dis. they were trying to enforce the strict time rules because they are trying to jam so much in, trying to get the health care bill to the floor. >> savannah, if that were the case, why would he say as my capacity of senator from minnesota? >> i guess because there was no -- >> i think he didn't want to do it as the presiding officer. >> there was no one else there? >> i think there was no one else there. >> he's like really? >> it's shocking. never happened before. >> he stretched really into like three syllables there. it was very emblematic. >> maybe lawrence will comment on this as well. interesting, one of the things that has gone on in the health care debate, people invoke senator kennedy in different ways. he would be the first one to say you take the compromise you can get, you get the half-elope if you can, and then you move forward. he had talked about health care going back to 1994, and yet there is nobody with the kind of stature among liberals to say, compromise is okay here. compromise is a good start here. it seems to me that's part of what's driving this angst this anxiety among progressives on health care. >> i mean, keith olbermann, ed schultz, arianna huffington, none of these people would have the moral authority to cross ted kennedy if he were here saying we need to take this bill. >> i think they would disagree with ted kennedy, but he would be the one who could get the votes, who could help you with the house of representatives with liberal votes. however, senator kennedy has had no history whatsoever of compromise, legislatively on this. none. he killed the nixon bill. which was a far better bill than the clinton bill or this bill. but in 1994, with the clinton bill, ted kennedy was absolutely refusing to compromise with any republicans on that bill. i was in the room with him, with the president. >> you think he would compete with arianna huffington? >> no. i suspect ted kennedy would be with the majority of democrats and would be for the first time a compromiser. >> this is the first time we watch democrats just savage each other. it happened with republicans, happens with democrats. it's ugly stuff. >> this is the most complicated public policy issue in american life. it -- it's an irrational market, because it's about our health. it's an incredible amount of money in terms of the insurance, and people's employment. and except for war and peace there, is really not anything that's going to hit as many emotional, political and structural buttons, and cultural buttons. >> only legislation that affects 100% of the population. no other legislation does that. >> i'm surprised it hasn't been bloodier when you think about it. >> it's not over yet. >> i want franken to cane. >> those were the days. >> who do you have on "meet the press" this sunday? >> david axlerod. exclusive interview with howard dean, and in a big roundtable, two of the most passionate voices on msnbc, joe scarborough, rachel maddow at the same table. >> there will be caning there. >> there will be caning there. >> i'm going to take a helmet. >> exactly. >> david gregory, thank you. savannah, thank you. is the current health care legislation worth saving? or should we scrap it and start all over again? we'll talk to one of the most baffled congressmen on the subject. and military drones hacked by iraqi militants. the pentagon's reaction, when we come back. ♪ by changing her medicare prescription plan. all we had to do was go to cvs.com and use the free savings calculator. we learned that changing your medicare part d plan could save an average of $612. woman: we just entered my prescriptions, and it compared plans for us. it was easy to find the right plan for the prescriptions i need. your cvs pharmacist can help, too. come in today, or go to cvs.com before december 31st to find the best plan for you -- at cvs/pharmacy. because with national, i roll past the counter... and choose any car in the aisle. choosing your own car? now that's a good call. go national. go like a pro. now that's a good call. somewhere in america, there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, 69,000 people spend every day answering them. siemens. answers. it's not always easy living with copd, but i try not to let it hold me back... whether i'm at the batting cages... down by the lake or... fishing at the shore. i'm breathing better... with spiriva. announcer: spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled maintenance treatment for both forms of copd, which includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. i take it every day. it keeps my airways open... to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announcer: spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, or have vision changes or eye pain. tell your doctor if you have glaucoma, problems passing urine or an enlarged prostate, as these may worsen with spiriva. also discuss the medicines you take, even eye drops. side effects may include dry mouth, constipation and trouble passing urine. my doctor said i could be doing more to breathe better and now i am. announcer: ask your doctor about lifestyle changes and once-daily spiriva. to start losing essential nutrients? not long. in fact, green beans lose half their vitamin c in a week. that's why green giant freezes them within 8 hours to lock in nutrients. ho ho ho green giant times square for you. getting ready for the holidays. thanks, chopper 4. we appreciate that. welcome become to "morning joe." >> they don't have a camera in times square. >> time for a quick look at today's top stories. a top military officer is confirming reports that insurgents hacked into live video feeds coming from u.s. predator drones over iraq and afghanistan. admiral mike mullen said the hacking caused no significant military damage, but it did raise concerns about cyber security. the pentagon says the breach involving the drones has since been fixed. federal reserve chairman ben bernanke is bracing for a heated debate when his nomination goes to the full senate next month. the senate banking committee backed bernanke for another four years in officer. he was "time" magazine's person of the year and is expected to be confirmed. scientists are showing rare footage of a volcano erupting 4,000 feet below samoa. this could provide new clues about how the earth's crust was formed. coming up, representative anthony weiner joins us. >> jon me chum with us? >> oh, boy. great to see you. ♪ the key is people in this country right now, the progressives don't believe that the white house has stood up to the insurance industry. >> david, let me ask you a question. why is the insurance industry so vigorously opposing this bill? we fought for years as progressives for a patient's bill of rights. everything that was in that patient's bill of rights is enshrined in this legislation and people say let's just throw it away. we don't need it anymore. why is the insurance industry fighting so hard? >> respectfully, mr. axlerod, i'll answer your question if you answer mine. i'll answer your question. they have the money to play a shell game on the american people. >> all righty. that was yesterday on "morning joe." david axlerod will be on "meet the press" this sunday. and so will you, by the way. >> i think david gregory will handle him slightly differently than the ed schultz method. with a little more room. >> you were fascinating by the ed schultz method. >> this liberal revolt is fascinating and extremely difficult. this puts pressure on house liberals, not so much senate liberals. >> here with us now, democratic from new york, anthony weiner, and norah o'donnell joins the conversation. >> and anthony, yesterday we had ed schultz and, of course, keith olbermann came out against him. arianna huffington was on the show against it. howard dean on the show against it. does that put pressure on progressives in the house to be against the bill? >> to some degree, ed and axlerod are having a different conversation. every time we turn around, we're losing a fight and we've allowed for the last several months. take a look at the checklist who has been dominating this debate? we spent a month and a half looking at olympia snow and now it's joe lieberman. >> before that, it was baucus, progressives were angry when they found out that baucus would control the senate. >> look at the difference between the way nancy pelosi and president obama are dealing with the same hand we have here. a very divided country, a very decided congress. nancy pelosi went out to try to round up the votes. on big issues, sometimes you have big compromises. if i ask 10 or 15 members of the congress, what is president obama's position on the public option? i'm not sure any of us knows exactly what it is. so there is the sense that he is not fighting for the things that we care about. >> can you even guess what his position is? >> i think he supports it. my problem isn't if he's supporting it -- >> i think he supports it, but doesn't need it he is willing to they it over. >> but that in and of itself is an unclear position. >> it's pretty clear. >> here is what i would like. i would like him to give a speech in nebraska today, and i would like him to stand in ben nelson's home state and say here are the tough issues your senator has to deal with. and i need you -- the kids on the college campuses, all of the people who carry about affordable health care and choice, here is what i would like you to do. i think howard dean is wrong, and i don't think we should let the perfect be the enemy of the good. i would like a sense, and many of us would like a sense, when the doors close and the negotiating is going on, the president of the united states is banging the table and saying give us the public option, give us your help it will lower costs, increase choice and those of us who have compromised so many times in this process, that is the problem. >> norah o'donnell, talk about the criticism of barack obama, that he's sitting back and letting the debate play out in front of him. >> exactly. and the white house acknowledges that the drop in public approval ratings is a result of watching this very long, very messy legislative process, and all we talk about is what is wrong with this bill. what's not in this bill, what's no longer in this bill. the public option. instead of what's in this bill. not entirely clear that the process has been transparent. there have been a number of democratic senator who's have said from the floor of the senate they don't know what's in the whole bill. there is a real onus on democratic lawmakers and congressman weiner. what is it in this bill that is going to lower costs and provide more choice? specifically. >> that's easy. frankly when have you 30 million people uninsured today going to hospital emergency rooms getting very expensive costs, passing along the burden. in new york city, we pay $6 billion in costs for uninsured. they will be covered -- >> how if there is no public option? >> there is no public option, but 30 million people will be getting health insurance that don't have it today. they will get more efficient, less expensive care, not passing on to you and me higher costs. that's an unvarnished good thing. the problem we have here is that has been a lot of discussion about a few of the top-line issues. those issues are not unimportant. public option is important to me. i compromised from a single payer system to get to a public option now. that compromise has been compromised away. the point isn't whether or not there is a good bill, but whether or not the american people have a sense of the president's values going into this thing. this is more than putting a score up on the board this is a real discussion of who we are. and if you look at the challenge of how we face with the party, the problem is with independents, but it's an idea of thinking there a better system. >> this is such a huge bill with a huge price tag and the reason progressives are upset it doesn't have the systemic reform that the president promised and that's upsetting. >> let me rise in defense of the president on this. what he did is the opposite of what bill clinton did. he waved the veto pen at congress and couldn't have been tougher. absolutely will not take a bill without, by the way, the forgotten phrase, universal coverage. which was surrendered by the president and by the house and the senate every democrat involved in this gave up on universal coverage on day one. including the liberals. and so clinton was incredibly tough. did everything that people are saying barack obama should do, and he got nothing. so we've seen what being incredibly tough in the presidency gets you in this legislative arena. >> so is there a strategy behind this? >> i don't think there is. obama shows you what the other thing gets you. it gets you nothing. the identical outcome. >> here is the question. quiet is now in a conference committee and the president can't put his finger on the scale, does he do it now? now is your moment, big guy. are you going to come in the end and there's no chance for them to do it. >> what can he say? >> i would like to make one point. i hope that the white house understand the progressive base of the party, we want him to be successful. joe lieberman, a lot of the people causing the problems are not rooting for success. we are, and we should be listened to. >> universally, everyone wonders why he is not getting his hands dirty. is it because there is -- >> there is nothing for him to do. tell me what the president -- anthony has a great idea. go to nebraska where one of your tough votes is. the trouble is, the number one question is, mr. president, please tell nebraska how this state can afford expansion of medicaid? this bill orders expansion of medicaid in all 50 states. there's not one state that can afford it. >> hold on a second. hold on. i want to show you this poll. a nationwide poll. and we showed it before, about americans. do they support the president's plan or not? i guarantee you, if he goes out, it's ridiculous. >> it's mind-numbingly meaningless. >> he better be. >> i heard walter mondale say that about the 1984 election, but i guarantee you, this poll and the other poll that shows 32% of americans support barack obama's health care plan is worse in nebraska. and so you would be in the 20s in nebraska, that would be on the front page. ben nelson would then have the added value of standing up to the president of the united states in nebraska and they would put a crown on top of his head instead of electing him to senator. >> if you think there is no value to the bully pulpit of the president, then you haven't been watching civics in the last 50 years. >> i better stop playing video games, i've been missing the news. >> i mean, at one point on the facts of the thing, the medicaid expansion will be paid 91%. overall expenses will go down because you have fewer uninsured people. >> i don't know. >> that's exactly what will happen. the uninsured are the real drivers of medicaid are. >> you know what excites me? what excites me is the year end issue of "newsweek." i say this about every magazine that comes, but i think this magazine will change people's lives. >> well, will. because we're in the business of changing people's lives. >> male pattern baldness, make 010 their most successful year ever. do things you couldn't dream of. tell me about it. >> let me focus. it's universal coverage. to go to lawrence's point. a terrific issue. a lot of people interviewing henry kissinger, hillary clinton talked and to really raise the tone. joe scarborough interviewed bill maher. >> oh, wow. >> something historic happened. >> i would like to wait to the real year to say that. >> that's a real mensa meeting. >> our view was to get out of the way, let important people talk to everybody. >> and you interviewed bill clinton. >> i interviewed president clinton. >> 45 minutes. >> two questions. >> 45 minutes and you only got two questions. >> he's so terrific, and really talked -- talked exactly about this. everybody criticizes president obama for trying to do to much if you're uninsured, you want him to work on health care, if you're an environmentalist, you want him to work on climate change. three american hikers facing espionage charges in iran. are they being used as political bargaining chips? the latest from andrea mitchell, next on "morning joe." ♪ corn. corn. 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[ female announcer ] people who spent $100 a week at leading national supermarkets on frequently purchased groceries could've saved $165 in 3 months by shopping at walmart. christmas costs less at walmart. save money. live better. walmart. hey! announcer: you don't drive every time you smoke. yet you smoke every time you drive. driving and smoking don't have to go together. re-learn life without cigarettes, free, at becomeanex.org. a new way to think about quitting. sometimes, the li things in life without cigarettes, free, feel like our biggest enemies. they can be damaged... they can be stolen. happily, your recent purchases with the american express charge card can be repaired. replaced. or your account can credited. can your card say that? okay, now here's our holiday gift list. aww, not the mall. well, i'll do the shopping... if you do the shipping. shipping's a hassle. i'll go to the mall. hey. hi. you know, holiday shipping's easy with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. yea, i know. oh, you're good. good luck! priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. welcome back to "morning joe." 52 past the hour. the families of three u.s. hikers awaiting trial in iran on espionage charges are making an emotional new plea to have them released. nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell has the latest on this story. andrea, good morning. >> good morning, mika. the families today, a new appeal. iran, of course, announced that it will put the three american hikers on trial on espionage charges, but the families are waiting for a better outcome. they worry, of course, about what could be motivating iran's regime. the hikers, 27-year-old shane bauer and joshua fattal and 31-year-old sarah shourd have been in prison since july when they wandered too close to the border between iran and kurdistan. their families have released youtube videos to show them to be carefree vacationers, not spies. and this morning, the families are releasing a new video, with sarah shourd's mother asking the eye toela khamenei to release them in the holiday spirit. >> they are good people. i respectfully apologize and request for your benevolence for this time of year. please release our children and return them home to us. >> reporter: but the u.s. has no diplomatic relations with iran. swiss diplomats representing washington have not been able to see them since october 29th. iran's foreign minister move tacky said monday that the three had entered iran with suspicious aims. he said the judiciary will try them and impose, quote, relevant sentences. secretary of state hillary clinton says they should be released immediately. >> we consider this a totally unfounded charge. there is no basis for it. the three young people who were detained by the iranians have absolutely no connection with any kind of action against the iranian state or government. >> reporter: last spring, roxana saberi had been released. so could the hikers also get out soon despite that espionage charge. >> iran's judicial system is very nebulous and they oftentimes do things quite abruptly. so it's not unprecedented they would try them for espionage, charge them with espionage, and give them a long prison sentence, only to release them a few days later. >> reporter: but iran's regime is fractured, and relations with the u.s. are getting frostier. only this week, iran test-fired a long-range missile and canceled upcoming nuclear talks. and of course, what the u.s. is trying to do is keep the troubled relationship with iran separate from the fate of the hiker, hoping that it does not become caught up and entangled in this very difficult, tense relationship. >> how possible is it, andrea, that these kids could be used as leverage? >> that's the big thing. there was an interview with ann curry back in september when ahmadinejad said, well, you know, we should release some of these iranian diplomats who are being held by u.s. soldiers in iraq and beginning to talk about a tit for tat. so that is another worry. we don't want them to become pawns in this whole, larger troubled relationship. >> andrea mitchell, thank you very much. coming up, sarah palin strikes back at "washington post" columnist eugene robinson. eugene will be on the show when we come back to talk about that and much more. also, "the new york times'" andrew ross sorkin and "the nation's" katrina vanden heuvel, exchanging their ideas all right here on "morning joe." trying to sort out what health reform means to seniors? for the first time, a law... to prohibit cuts to medicare benefits. no one standing between you and your doctor. and no increase in the deficit. reform will cor preventive care. help close the medicare prescription gap, paid for with common sense ideas -- like ending duplicatn of tests and other waste. praised by doctors, nurses, and senior groups. it's reforthat works for all of us. on the hhway? 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"times" business columnist, andrew ross sorkin, the author of the book, "too big to fail," and also with us, katrina vanden heuvel, teared up during that john mccain speech. >> i saw that. >> also, associate editor and pulitzer prize-winning columnist for "the washington post," the man on sarah palin's enemies list, thank god has earned that position, eugene robinson. but katrina, you've got next to you also lawrence o'donnell, who is my hero. he's crazy, but it may just be a lunatic we're looking for. >> but john mccain, says that he agrees with howard dean 100%. are you and john mccain and arianna huffington and all these other leftists in one camp now? >> i think john mccain is coming at this from a different perspective. >> perhaps. >> perhaps. i mean, i think -- i do think that the republicans would like to cripple the possibility of reform and destroy president obama's presidency. it's pretty much a simple task they see, and that is one that i have to say, i didn't anticipate. i don't know what lawrence thinks, but i didn't anticipate after president obama's election that you would have this uni unified -- "obstructionist" is now a cliche, but it's beyond that. >> wait a minute, let's go back to howard dean. do you agree with howard dean? does this bill need to be killed and started over? >> i believe we feed to keep fighting in conference. and i think he's been misunderstood -- >> no, no, i heard that yesterday. he hasn't been misunderstood. he wants to kill this version of the bill specifically and he wants to start over, start writing this bill over from the beginning. he has not been misunderstood. >> i don't think we should stop fighting. i think we go into conference with the house, which is a better bill. evening this white house looks at progressives. and let's be honest, the progressive community right now is divided. paul krugman today in "the new york times" is saying, pass this bill. that the history of this country has been social reform in fits and starts. that progressives might not have agreed with the social security bill. >> do you agree with paul? >> he doesn't -- >> i'm trying to figure out where we stand. >> listen, we're living in complicated times -- >> no, it's not complicated. the "morning joe" brand is black and white, right and wrong, evil and good. >> then, i don't want a part of it. i don't believe in black and white. >> we don't either, of course. >> but i think we need to keep fighting on. i don't think the senate bill is adequate. >> keep the process going. >> but i keep wondering, if senator kennedy, the fighting liberal of the senate was with us, would we be here? >> oh, yeah. >> i'm not sure. he believed in the art of the possible, but he didn't believe in giving up as much as i believe has been given up. >> eugene robinson, where do you stand on the howard dean versus david axelrod continuum? >> i disagree with governor dean and i'm more on the paul krugman side. i say pass the bill. if confronted with a bill, if we didn't have this whole history, you just got a bill that covered 30 million of the 46 million uninsured, that dealt with existing conditions, that did the things that this bill did, you would pass that bill. and maybe you'd be back at some point, looking for -- looking to improve it, looking to make it better. sure, you fight it in conference, but i think you don't give up what you've got so far. disappointed in the result, but i think you pass the bill. >> i want to ask gene this one refinement. gene, 30 million, what if this bill ends up only insuring about 10 million or 15 million, and in the process, makes insurance more expensive for everyone on the individual market, including those new people on the market who are being subsidized by the government? would that be too small an advance for you to vote for? or would you say, well, that's still good enough? because the cbo assumptions that it will do 30 million are extremely shaking. that's why i ask the question. >> abolish the cbo. >> what do you say, lawrence, to those 10 million to 15 million people. if the goal -- my goal would be universal health care. universal health insurance. and a decision was made not to go for the whole banana. and maybe the whole banana was unattainable. but when you're talking about increments of double-digit millions, i think you're doing something. and would it make it more expensive for everybody? well, i hope not. certainly, there's a point at which you've said, well, if it doubling the cost for everybody, then maybe you do start over. >> well, does it? >> andrea, we have talked about for some time, we've got two sides of this debate. the morality, the math, the morality, 46 million, the math, how does it add up. yesterday, the president of the united states comes on, is interviewed, and says, if we don't pass this bill, america's going to go bankrupt. >> i don't believe that for a second. >> you don't believe america's going to go bankrupt? >> it may go bankrupt with this bill. >> he said it's the most absurd thing the president has said. >> it is one of the more absurd things he's said. nonetheless, i think you have to take a step back and have to decide, again, are you going to play for the long-term? i mean, i think we have to decide, do we need the big everything, the whole banana, as eugene said, tor do you take a bite? and this is not going to be the historic bill that people thought it was supposed to be. and i think you almost have to accept that that's going to be the case. >> lawrence, you said this is the most absurd thing the president has said, that if we don't pass this bill, america will be bankrupt. why is that? >> because america's never going to go bankrupt, and as the chief executive officer of america, you should never suggest that the possibility exists in one of our possible outcomes. one of the problems of this bill for liberals is it's an extremely bad foundation to build on. it is not a model to build on. and in fact, it includes a very high likelihood that if you pass this bill, when budget cutting comes around again, this will be the first place you cut. you cut the subsidies to the people who are going to be getting health insurance through this bill. >> no, but i think that's a reason -- i mean, the whole issue of never let the perfect be the enemy of the good and the art of compromise, does compromise open the door to greater progress or does it foreclose opportunity? and the danger is that this foundation, in an era of deficit mania cutting and entitlement anxiety, so the compromise, as anthony weiner said earlier, the compromises have all been going in one direction. and that's why the fight needs to continue. because i think we can embolden and i think howard dean's intervention is to stiffen some spines, is to put a little fear in this white house. because compromises have gone all in one direction. >> if that is the case, when you think this bill -- the question is, do you think this bill will ever get passed then, or a bill like this? or are we going to be talking about this in eight years again. >> it's not over yet. we have to houses of congress, the house of representatives, sorry. >> it also could have long-term effects on the democrats' ability to be effective and the republicans. in "the wall street journal," jt slowly, slowly, the democratic health agenda is turning to a political suicide pact. congressional members have been dragged along by momentum, by threat, by bribe, but mostly by the white house's siren song that it would be worse not to pass a bill than it would be to pass one. if that ever were true, it is not today." while democrats are under fire for the kbhi and spending, it is health care that has voters thinking it's time for political change." >> a larger point, larger than president obama's presidency, is how americans are going to view government. is government only about starting wars and bailing out banks, or does government have a role in improving, however moderately, the condition of people's lives? and i think that is at stake. >> but you said however moderately? >> it is. it could be a minimal reform in the way social security at the outset was not what progressives really wanted. >> exactly. >> there's a huge difference. >> here's the problem, though, lawrence. social security, you try to touch social security, you get eviscerated. this has been the underlying problem for democrats every time they try to start this out. the press supports them, for the most part, the base supports them -- >> at the beginning. >> they announce a huge parade. they run out to the middle of the street, and then they notice, after two blocks, they're getting shot at. why? because 75% of americans at the beginning of this process said, they like their health care the way it is. we're not talking about where we ought to be, we're talking about where 75% of americans are s a. that happened in '94, it's happening again. >> that's the fundamental democratic duty in doing this, that you haven't reached the tipping point of dissatisfaction with the health care system that would make this easy to do. you are legislating against the perceived interests of most people who are already in the health care system. and that's what those polls indicate. those polls indicate i don't think this is good for me. and it is very hard to, you know, look, the democrat argument about it's good for us if we pass a bill becomes a stranger and stranger argument the more you stare at those numbers, where the public says, we really don't want this bill. >> mika, you know, something happened to the middle of this debate, i think it just happened by chance, but it is so illuminating to the bigger problem about health care. they had that mammogram study. >> oh, my gosh, absolutely. >> right. don't have mammograms until you're 50. until you're 50. and there was this huge rebellion. what we illustrated is that we americans want what we want when we want it and if it costs too much money, it doesn't matter, because it's us. >> that's why health care is clearly a personal issue. >> and democrats and republicans both rushed to the senate and the house floors saying, let's pass a mammogram protection bill. >> we want to save your mammograms. >> but government will not be good at cost containment. >> but could i raise a point, there is a moral point here. the cbo, the congressional budget office, everyone waiting every other day with bated breath for the scoring. why aren't we scoring other programs in our society, like the escalation in afghanistan? why are we scoring something that would improve the quality of human security, real security in this country. and by the way, you said the media supports democrats, what planet are you living? >> health care reform. what planet am i living on? >> the media gave teabaggers and those hateful rallies much more coverage. >> no, no, i'm pointing over here. >> by the way, you live in an alternate universe if you believe that the press is hostile to barack obama and health care reform. >> i think it's hostile to core fundamental principles of a democratic society, the mainstream media. >> there has been some good questioning on this. ju yoo eugene robinson, do you really believe it's worth passing a bill at this point that does far less than what the president set out to do? >> yes, if it does a considerable amount, i think it's worth passing a bill than he initially set out to do. as lawrence said, this is hard to do. that's why it hasn't been done. that's why presidents since harry truman have been trying to do something about -- >> gene, the exact quote -- >> it's very difficult to do. >> gene, gene, the exact quote is "socialism is hard." lawrence said it earlier this year. >> that's right. i remember that. >> i'm sorry, continue. go ahead. >> so -- look, i, personally, will be disappointed if what we get in the end is this mishmash of a senate bill. but i think it is vastly better than nothing. and also politically, i know that public opinion now has shifted, well, gee, maybe this is such a mess, maybe they shouldn't do anything. but i think that essentially wears off. i think if the democrats can't get it together to pass a bill, i cannot, in my wildest imagination, see how that's good for them. >> and by the way, mika -- >> i can't understand how it's good for the obama presidency. i can't understand how it's good for the congressional -- i don't see it. >> let me just say the quote of the year, this year on "morning joe," without a doubt, hands down goes to lawrence o'donnell, who said in the middle of the detroit bailout, hey, socialism's hard. >> and he meant it from the bottom of his hard. >> and that comes from a committed socialist who has worked very hard at getting socialism right. gene, i have a political question for you about the value of this bill. how do the democrats, if they pass the bill, how do they go into the 2010 election having voted for taxation that not one of them, not one of them mentioned the last time they were campaigning. president obama when he was running told the little fairy tale that we would be able to finance this whole thing simply by letting the tax cut expire on the top taxpayers. we are far beyond that. there's a large grab bag of taxation in the senate bill that no one has ever heard of before, that's all new, including a tax on 40% of the health care plans in america that will then reduce the benefits in those plans, so that makes the president's claim of "if you like your plan, you can keep it," a lie. and in the house of representatives, if they go that that way, there's this whole new top tax bracket above the top tax bracket. so when you're talking about the political benefits of passing this bill, which includes an extremely large tax bill, how to me how the democrats go into the 2010 election defending the taxes that none of them campaigned on and said they were going to do the last time they ran? >> well, day don't talk about those taxes. >> what if the opponent does? >> they talk about the shiny bells and whistles -- >> but what if the opponent somehow brings up the taxation? >> somehow. that's all republicans talk about. >> but, lawrence, explain to me how they go before the voters in 2010 and say, oh, gee, sire, well, we said we were going to -- >> the voters aren't going to ask why didn't you do that thing i was opposed to. that's not going to be one of the questions. >> oh, i think they're going to ask, why can't you guys get it together if you guys are this incompetent -- >> why can't you get it together and do the thing i was opposed to. joe, do you get that question on the campaign trail? >> i was told by david drier one time as i was voting against every republican bill, he said, son, you'll learn, you never, ever pay for a bill you vote against. it may be cynical, it may be angry, but you never get in trouble for the bills you vote against on the campaign trail. it's always the bills you vote for. >> but the party does. maybe not individually, but the party does. >> as a committed socialist, you're really fixated on -- i mean, you can't get something for nothing. have you heard that those who get a lot should give something back to society. >> katrina, i want much higher income taxes, much higher. but i can tell you that the taxes that are in the bill. >> that's why the house bill is less of a killer. >> people are against taxing the very wealthy to give back to those who have worked so hard. the link between hard work and economic security has been broken in this country. >> i want much higher top-end brackets. but what i would like to do is run for office saying, i want to raise your taxes, then elect me, then i'll do it. >> by the way, friends, the chairman mal-variety hour will be right back. coming up, something lawrence o'donnell says he's never seen before. we'll tell you al franken's unusual moment with joe lieberman on the senate floor. also, a first look at the politico playbook, including monica lewinsky's new allegations against president clinton. it's just awful. i guess between themake marxism the mowism, we throw in a little sleazism. and andrew ross sorkin is here. are you a socialist as well? >> i love taxes. it's really tough on the campaign after you voted for tax increases. first, a major winter storm is expected. >> bill karins now, a big storm coming, bill? >> good morning, everyone, happy friday. travel difficulties will begin as we go throughout the day today. let's take you through the storm. heavier rain already starting now around atlanta's hartsfield airport. miami, you're under a tornado watch this morning. water spouts are possible near the beeches. the airports, so far, so good. but the rain is definitely coming down in atlanta, miami, the worst time for travel, all through the eastern seaboard tonight and then all day on saturday. here's how much snow we're expecting. notice the pink area there, 6 to 12 inches, even an area of 12 plus in the mountains of the appalachians. what's this mean for the big cities. the weather forecast center is calling from 10 to 14 inches from washington, d.c., to baltimore. philadelphia, 6 to 10. new england, big question mark, how far north the storm gets. right now, doesn't look like a huge hit for southern new england, but that's still 36 hours away. you're watch "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i've been growing algae for 35 years. most people try to get rid of algae, and we're trying to grow it. the algae are very beautiful. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on. in using algae to form biofuels, we're not competing with the food supply. and they absorb co2, so they help solve the greenhouse problem, as well. we're making a big commitment to finding out... just how much algae can help to meet... the fuel demands of the world. what doctors recomeend for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for littde bodies with fevers... and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol more than any other brand of pain reliever. the timing is awkward, but tiger woods was named athlete of the decade by the associated press. that's right. and in a related story, tiger's caddy was named man of the decade by wingman magazine. >> there you go. that's why we shouldn't have run that sound bite the other day, wingman. let's take a look at the morning papers. just say you agree with me. >> i agree with you. >> "wall street journal," showdown at climate talks. president obama goes to denmark in the last hour to try to clinch a climate deal. >> "the new york times," front page photo shows president obama leaving the oval office before heading to copenhagen. that didn't turn out too well the last time. the headline on the left, russia and the u.s. are close to a new treaty to trim their nuclear arsenal. john harris taking us back to the 1990s and this headline in "the new york times" takes us back to 1987. >> "usa today" now, recession takes holiday toll. just one indicator christmas mailings have fallen by 11% this year. >> and the "san francisco chronicle," take a look at the photo. tenants given minutes to evacuate as large chunks of the cliff began falling into the ocean. the apartment building is now just a few feet from the edge. >> okay. wow. speaking of on the edge -- >> editor and chief of politico, john harris, with the politico morning playbook. this is very highbrow. a little boring at times, but highbrow policy. the guy that runs politico -- >> smut. >> he's doing these stories on monica lewinsky, alien meets bill clinton. back to the 1990s. what are you looking at today? >> you ready to go low brow again. a little dose of sleaze. all i'm doing is describing a very scholarly book written by a law professor of duquesne university. he spent a decade, we thought the lewinsky story went on long enough the year and a half we lived it, he spent the last 12 years living it, researching the book. among his revelations, he says that he has evidence -- >> is this about the blue dress? >> it's not about the blue dress, about another supposed liaison that president clinton had. he said he has evidence that bill clinton was intimate with susan mcdougal. >> boy, that's a real shock, lawrence. never saw that one coming. >> stunning. stunning. >> and barry bonds was on steroids. who would have seen that. go ahead. so he and mcdougal. >> a screw loose when they come to the clintons. this does actually illuminate a little bit of a mystery. early in the clinton presidency, there were people like george stephanopoul stephanopoulos, people said, they need to get this out, release all the documents to "the washington post," "new york times," lean break, get it all out, and the clintons fiercely resisted, really hillary clinton. one theory was that bill clinton didn't want the whole white water story out because it would point to the fact that he was involved with susan mcdougal. this seems quaint in retrospect after monica lewinsky, after a succession of rumors, but at the time it was a very, very sensitive opponent. this could be the hidden key. what were the clintons so nervous about with white water, this relationship with susan mcdougal, which the author asserts. he doesn't make clear how he knows this. he says he's convinced and that's one of the things he's asserting in this book. is that highbrow enough? >> that's really taking me back to a time and place i never want to go again. >> i feel those were lost years. that whole -- it was lost in the sense that you saw emerge a media environment which we still live with, the beginnings of the polarization, the right-wing apparatus at full throttle now. but i also think, with all do respect, your reporting on this book by a legal scholar. but yesterday morning i woke up and read this story in "the washington post" about warren, ohio. there are women in warren, ohio, who are selling or pawning their wedding rings in order to survive because that town is destroyed, there are no jobs. and we're sitting here talking on an important public affairs show -- >> a what? excuse me? >> you have obviously wandered on to charlie rose's set. >> this company, comcast, whatever it is now, my understanding is it has a license with the government to do public affairs stuff and we're spending time talking about -- >> no, actually -- >> -- monica lewinsky? get her out of our life. >> we actually said, when we applied for the permit, a mud wrestling show. >> well, you could do it, joe, you could do that show on the side. >> i think people look back and it was a holiday from history. big things happening. >> bill, give us something highbrow. john, we know you have -- >> it was little notice, even in washington, a couple weeks ago, senator byrd, robert byrd from west virginia, made the statement that it didn't really echo and we picked it up in politico this morning. he made an audio statement to west virginia citizens saying, we have got, as the state, get on the right side of history. people should recognize in this coal state that we've got to adapt some kind of climate change can legislation is going to happen. we're going to move to a post-carbon economy. >> because robert byrd is not running for re-election. >> that's interesting. >> by the way, john, we kid with you, politico does, you guys go deeper down into policy in washington, d.c. -- >> some people joke substanceco. >> it is substanceco. but here's a takeaway from that monica stuff for me, that was just an ugly time. such an ugly time. because nobody, nobody wants to go back -- >> katrina's exactly right. >> republicans don't. nobody does. >> but we're living it. >> nonstop, ideological combat that i think that era really represented. >> by the way, is that all this book came up with? 12 years, and that's it? >> for aficionados, there's a lot in there. >> john harris, thanks very much. coming on this important public affairs show. all right, coming up, anxiety in the oil markets. with all eyes on oil fields in iraq, business before the bell with cnbc's erin burnett. >> yes! >> when we come back. national car rental? that's my choice. because with national, i roll past the counter... and choose any car in the aisle. choosing your own car? now that's a good call. go national. go like a pro. by changing her medicare prescription plan. all we had to do was go to cvs.com and use the free savings calculator. we learned that changing your medicare part d plan could save an average of $612. woman: we just entered my prescriptions, and it compared plans for us. it was easy to find the right plan for the prescriptions i need. your cvs pharmacist can help, too. come in today, or go to cvs.com before december 31st to find the best plan for you -- at cvs/pharmacy. with certain high blood pressure medicines the way aleve sometimes can. that's one reason why doctors recommend the medicine in tylenol arthritis more than any other pain reliever. to start losing essential nutrients? not long. in fact, green beans lose half their vitamin c in a week. that's why green giant freezes them within 8 hours to lock in nutrients. ho ho ho green giant cartoons duringch hoops your big meeting, and breaking news when it breaks. watch real tv whenever you want. you don't need to get a phone. you need a phone that gets you. nobody can, by the way. welcome back to "morning joe". >> 17 degrees out. >> it is. you know, outside, it really feels like 6. >> yes, it does. but it is 17. but with that windchill, you get 6 degrees. >> oil markets are worried and rising about a possible iranian invasion of an iraqi oil field. now, when something like this comes up, i want to talk to an international superstar that jets across the globe, hangs out one week in rio, the next week in iraq, the next week in iceland. oh, look, there she is. our international superstar. >> hello, guys. >> what's going on, erin. >> there's rio, by the way, erin, do you miss it? >> that's a live picture of rio? >> just for you. >> oh, gosh, i wish i was still there. we might need some of that oil 200 miles off the coast of that particular picture because of what's happening in iran and iraq. obviously, any kind of headline about an incursion on an oil facility in the middle east can cause oil to pop, but the story this morning, actually, joe, really interesting. apparently, a bunch of iranian guards went into iraqi territory and surrounded an oil well. it's interesting, because iraq is denying this too. but what i'm hearing is that iraq would deny it whether it was true or not because it's an assault on their honor and integrity and they don't like it. but iran, not just does it have a long and sort of tenuous, shall i undersell it, relationship with iraq. they also view iraq's proxy for the united states. so any kind of military issue there has broader repercussions. and oil is going up sharply because everyone thinks when iraq gets all of its oil online, their production could go from the current production of 2.5 million barrels per day to 12 million barrels per day. if that comes true, although it would only happen over several years, it would be bad for iran, currently is one of the world's largest exporters of oil. >> iraq sold leases rights last week, right? >> yeah. >> and americans didn't do too well in that. who are the big winner there is? >> there's another undersell. no good for the americans there. petronas, the malaysian oil company. it's interesting when you look at iraq, a lot of the u.s. oil majors are afraid to go in. with the exception of occidental petroleum, the only u.s. major oil company to be in iraq, and they're in a lot of tough hot spots around the world where there's a lot of political risk to the oil, but it's incredibly cheap to get it out of the ground, like libya. occidental's ceo said it costs $2 a barrel to get it out of the ground in iraq, so even under terrible terms from the government and the risks to figure out how to pay people, that compares to $15 a barrel to get it out of the ground in the gulf of mexico. >> let's move on here for a second. that is fascinating. i want to throw this open to both you and andrew ross sorkin, who's here a little longer today because school's snowed out. >> oh, andrew. >> since john harris only got to talk about two stories, he didn't bring up tiger woods, so i will. nike and tiger, obviously, joined at the hip. nike, though, talking about big profits, andrew, big profits. >> i'm not -- you're trying to correlate this with tiger. that's very difficult, i think. >> i'm just saying, we haven't brought up the word tiger in three hours and it had to be done. but nike has stayed joined at the hip. >> they have. i don't want know how long they can stay joined at the hip. it keeps getting worse and worse and worse. >> i think it's a $600 million arrangement for nike. so tough for them to break out. >> did you say $600 million? >> yes. >> but there's a morals clause. they can get out. interestingly, when you look at what -- they sponsored kobe bryant and they sort of disappeared for a while, kept the contract, and now they're back with him. that could be their model for tiger. but the question is, when tiger returns, to the extent he does return, is he a sponsorable athlete. even if he's a great golfer, are people going to really get behind him. >> i wonder if it would be brave of nike to say, you know, what, no, mm-hmm, morals clause. and i don't wish ill on tiger woods -- >> i hope i don't have one in my contract. >> corporations have sponsored far worse. >> they have sponsored far worse. >> i have a morals clause? do you have one? oh, my god. >> i think the coverage of tiger is out of control. >> they can sponsor him and they will, but the value of that sponsorship was really based on being a winner and what being a winner is. which was a lot more amorphous of a concept, but much more lucrative than just winning. >> you know the nike slogan, just do it, that came, according to the ad copy righter. as gary gill more was about to be shot, he said, just do it, and that's where the nike copy righter said, that's where we got it from. >> they can sponsor tiger, and just do it. >> you play a lawyer on tv. tell me, this morals clause that you're telling me is in my contract, is it sort of -- >> very vague. >> go read it right after the show. >> you say you read it every morning. >> because i have to live by it. i check my calendar. see if i have any violations scheduled. >> you don't think tiger woods violated any morals clause? >> i'm sure he violated a morals clause. >> how do we define morality. let's have a panel discussing how we define morality, public morality. >> who said they're going to lay low and then come back? they want to see how it plays out. why would you back out of it 100% if he comes back and does do a mea culpa. >> i thought he can't play. >> why can't he play? >> what if he can't concentrate? >> erin burnett, we love you. >> bye, guys! >> thank you for being with us. >> coming up next, our all-star panel in our political roundtable. and an exclusive sneak peek at "the new york times" book review and week in review, next. health reform means to seniors? a law... , to prohibit cuts to medicare benefits. no one standing between you and your docr. and no increase in the deficit. reform will coverpreventiv. he close the medicare prescripon gap, to lower your costs. paid for with common sense ideas -- like ending duplication of tests and other waste. praiseby doctors, nurses, and senior groups. it's reform that works for all of us. green beans. corn. corn. [ female announcer ] it's the most wonderful time of the year, and walmart's here to help. i really should make lists. [ female announcer ] people who speft $100 a week at leading national supermarkets on frequently purchased groceries could've saved $165 in 3 months by shopping at walmart. christmas costs less at walmart. save money. live better. walmart. we'll provide an opportunity for broad savings and health care and health insurance for pretty much everybody in our country -- >> senator, the senator has spoken -- i'm sorry, the senator has spoken for ten minutes. >> i wonder if i could ask unanimous consent for just an additional moment? >> in my capacity as senator from minnesota, i object. >> really? oh, okay. don't take it personally. >> welcome back to "morning joe." here we have a guy that -- well, a guy who runs everything at "the new york times," "week in review" and also the book review, but he wishes he was a headline writer at the "new york post." sam tanenhaus. >> i wish i had a profile like this guy, andrew sorkin, celebrity. >> he is. we call him andy. so these are the days you wish you worked at the "new york post," don't you? >> he's giving us a quiz. >> front, front cover. actually did a little tiger woods piece last sunday, but it was very "timesy." >> so you didn't mention the sex, right? you did a tiger woods segment without the sex? >> i think maybe i didn't. leave it to me. everybody ready for a quiz? >> yeah. >> every year at the end of the year, do the buzz words of the year in "the week in review," so i'm going to test you. four very smart people. we'll start off easy, okay. birther? >> yeah. >> what is a birther? >> born in america. >> all right, botax? >> oh, the tax on plastic surgery in the senate health care bill. >> big westeinner. >> i know taxes and plastic surgery was an interest of mine. >> dracula sneeze. >> a bloody sneeze. >> think flu -- >> like this. >> green shoots. >> oh, you know, like good news in the economy. a little, like, new business that somehow is making it. >> y'all are too smart. jegings. >> andrew ross sorkin. >> i don't even know. >> what's wrong with you? >> what are jegings. >> leggings and jeans. jean-style leggings. jegings. >> okay. what's new about that. >> here's what you have to nail, mika. male-session. >> the backwards version of the women rights' movement. right? >> yes. anyone get this one, aporkalypse. undue worry about the swine flu. >> this is fun. >> this one andrew has to get. >> he's out. leave him out. >> all right, camerica. >> like capitalism -- >> the economy and china's econom economy. >> i like it! >> are these your own words? >> no, no, we actually found -- >> the fuzziest words of the year. >> grant barrett, an online dictionary. >> what else do you have? are you looking back at the year in "week in review," "this year in review." >> next week we're going to do it with pictures. some of the really iconic shots and write some captions about them. we have a couple of other pieces. sheryl is looking at obama's deadlines. he set all these deadlines and the policies, has a little trouble making them. and the book review, i don't know if we have an image of that. but it is a biography of patricia highsmith, "strangers on a train," "talented mr. ripley," a full-bore bioing offer of her. the biographer claims, if she would not have become a novelist, she would have been a murderess. >> all right, now we can review. >> what's with the awkward silence. go, what else? >> i was just being patient, because i figured joe likes to jump in and interrupt. >> what else is in "book in review" this week. >> which one? the book review? >> book review, we have -- what do we have. because we do them -- i'll tell you what we have. >> we do them so often. every week, it's very confusing. >> because she came in for our podcast, susan vega reviews a paul mccartney biography. >> that sounds good. >> and mellen mckai does the john lennon biography. so i say the smart one and the cute one. >> so what do we learn about the smart one? >> is that he wasn't always that nice a guy, which maybe we knew anyway. but that actually comes more in the mccartney biography. everyone knows that paul mccartney wrote "yesterday," probably the first true classic. up to this moment, he's still enraged that it says lennon and mccartney, that was the deal they worked out for all their songs. everybody knows he wrote it, he probably has more money than you do -- well, nobody. but he has many millions and it still bugs him that it doesn't say "song by paul mccartney." >> interesting. didn't know about that dynamic. >> so sarah palin is selling 150,000 books still a week, how long does she stay at the top of your list? >> that's a great question, you know. she really is setting records, you know. she's out there hand selling it. she'll be there for a while. also, sad to say, big books don't sell so many copies these days. so she's way out in front of the pack and it could go for several weeks longer, as long as she is out there selling. look, joe, you did book sellings, right, book signings? if you go to a store the way she is, and 1,000 people are buying it each one, that's going to get her on the list right there. does three or four of those a week, that'll keep her on the list. >> we went out if june and were out and not huge crowds, but anywhere from 300 to 500. and we were out on the road, we were on the list. sell 500 a night or 300 a night, you're on the list. but with her, my god, she sells thousands and thousands a night. >> what's not clear, i've actually read the book, because i wrote about it in "the new yorker." it's not so clear to me how many, even of her fans, are actually reading it. lawrence, do you have a -- >> i have not talked to anyone who has read it. in santa monica, california, i cannot find anyone reading the book. >> so is the best-selling book of the year, marc levince. he was at number one forever. will sarah palin catch up? >> we don't know. the way we do it at the book review, we don't ever see the number, it's done by our polling people, the same people who told you john kerry would get elected in 2004. so our news survey and polling people. they don't give us the numbers. what they do is a comparative thing week to week. what's outselling everything else. so we don't see the raw numbers. >> by the way, i think palin will beat marc. >> ten seconds. >> sam tanenhaus, merry christmas. nuts over toffee. you'll love it. >> thank you. up next, the major winter storm that's expected to hit the east coast this weekend. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. what was that? >> nuts over toffee. 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"s" stands for straightforward. as in up-front, honest... total transparency. straightforward is the way td ameritrade does business. simple, fair pricing. no hidden account fees. no shenanigans. just good value. real help. smart people who are easy to work with. that's what td ameritrade stands for. what does your investment firm stand for? it's time for fresh thinking. it's time for td ameritrade. somewhere in america, there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, 69,000 people spend every day answering them. siemens. answers. smells good. it's a cookie exchange. we're baking up holiday spirit to share with friends around the country. you know, priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service makes shipping simpler than no-bake peanut cluster. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. so sending macadamia moos to miami costs the same as sending sugar trees to sante fe? same price for snicker doodles to spokane or pumpkin pinwheels to poughkipsee. okee-dokee. okee-dokee. priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95, only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm meteorologist bill karins. a busy weather day. we now have a tornado warning for the cities of naples in florida until 9:45. a tornado possibly heading through the city of naples as i speak. you can see a tornado watch has been issued all for southern florida. it does include miami up to west palm beach. be careful down there in south florida this morning. we're also going to continue to watch that storm heading up the coast. we are bricking a big snow event for d.c., baltimore, richmond, philadelphia, and possibly new york city. well, coming up on "morning joe," what, if anything, did we learn today? [ laughs ] what do i get my wife? [ note plays ] yes, she does. [ ding ] you guys rock! yeah, we do. [ male announcer ] smartphones, plans, and no annoying mail-in rebates. the best gifts come from best buy. get the taste of a home-cooked meal at work with new marie callender's home-style creations-- a delicious meal made fresh from your desk. just cook them, strain them, mix them. marie callender's home-style creations. a little touch of home for lunch. find them in the soup or pasta aisle. welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. i learned lawrence o'donnell actually loves taxes, proud of it, proud of the fact he's a socialist. >> that's not news. i worked on the finest committee and we did the biggest tax increase in history. if you're going to do a tax increase, come on. >> you elected me. thank you so much. what did you learn, andy? >> i learned that you think that tiger can somehow still play golf and get sponsors at the same time. >> not me. >> what did you learn? >> i learned that the effervescent lawrence o'donnell will be joining us on the radio with jeffrey meacham. what about you? >> i'm bricking gifts to everybody. >> oh, good! >> this is bigger than -- >> you'll love is this stuff. we've got some that actually increase taxes on americans. i'm going to hand you later on. >> special, special. >> everybody have a happy holiday. >> happy holiday. happy weekend, and if it's way too early, joe? >> it's "morning joe." dylan ratigan coming up next. thank you so much, joseph. good morning to you, friday morning indeed. my name is dylan ratigan. on our agenda, our president claims to be trying to save a climate summit. the president arriving in copenhagen with a message for the world's leaders. time is running short to reach a deal on climate change and it's time for the whole world to take a substantial step forward. that's his rhetoric. we'll see what they're actually doing with it. plus, their own worst enemy, it's democrat versus democrat right now in the battle for health care reform if you want to call this reform. republicans have been trying to stall legislation for months now. democrats, however, may do it themselves. also on the agenda, a 2012 populist president seems plausible with, right? the former governor of new mexico is mad as hell as so many in this country are and he's not going to take it anymore. could public frustration over spending, foreign policy, the health care debate, not to mention the bank bailouts and the ongoing theft that goes on there take gary johnson all the way to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. the republican from new mexico joins us in the moments to come. it's 9:00 a.m. good morning to you. the "morning meeting" starts right now. all right. our panel joining us this morning, nbc's mike viqueira at the white house. nbc meteorologist bill karins with some wild, wild weather, particularly in south florida. jonath jonathan capehart at "the washington post," an msnbc contributor as well. and katie mcfarland, friend of the show, nice to have you back with us, k.t. mike, obama in copenhagen. we begin with the news coming out of

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