Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20091125

after eight years, some of those years in which we did not have, i think, either the resources or the strategy to get the job done, it is my intention to finish the job. and i feel very confident that, when the american people hear a clear rationale for what we're doing that and how we intend to achieve our goals, that they will be supportive. >> okay. it's coming. >> he's going to make his decision. >> yes, he is. >> the dithering is done. >> yes, it is. >> he's going to -- was he talking about himself when he's talking about the eight years that it's taken for us to come up with a strategy? >> no. hey, i think that's a legitimate argument. >> he always has to attack bush. he seriously always has to attack bush. >> it's a situation created by them. >> he always has to attack bush. >> all right. >> daughters get bad grades, he attacks bush. >> yes, you're right. >> happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving to you. >> mort zuckerman is here. >> happy thank you giving, as my friend puts it. >> where is willie? >> did you see that turkey basting trick he had going? >> that's your assistant. >> lewis bergdorf. >> he's going rogue. >> anything for lewis to get on tv. >> i walk in, and there he is with his hand in a turkey. >> i was going to make a joke, but i'll just keep going. did you read "the new york times," maureen o'dowd? >> that's coming up, yes. >> blockbuster info about who was standing in the way of caroline kennedy's appointment to the u.s. senate? >> we'll have that story. >> a big name. >> also, we always thought that congressman boehner went to the tanning salon, so orange. >> everybody thought he had a tan because he had that orange look to him. >> i've got another reason coming up. >> and why he's that tan all the time? >> and it's not the tanning beds. also, i don't know if i can say this on television, but i'm going to. little bit of a pissing match -- >> oh, just walked in on this one. >> between david brodeur and hairy reid. there's another word i could use, but i won't. >> harry reid attacking the dean of the washington press corps because he doesn't like what the dean of the washington press corps is saying. >> back and forth, back and farther. >> harry reid loses that argument every time, every single time. who's harry reid? seriously, harry reid is going to be gone, and this guy, david brodeur, who he claims retired and is still writing two columns a week, david brodeur will still be the dean of the washington press corps. so little harry reid, enjoy your trip back to las vegas. >> yes. >> seriously, who is this pet lant little brat to be attacking david brodeur, who's been around for 40 years? and all brodeur ever does, he goes after republicans and democrats alike. and so extremists on both sides hate him. but all david brodeur ever does -- and politico talked about it today. he talks about the process and civility and moderation, the type of things we need a lot more of and the type of thing that harry reid knows nothing about. >> it's kind of fascinating the way they're going after each other. we have bill murray on the show today and also dr. howard dean, or howard to me, is coming up. we're going to get to news now. >> by the way, he's not a petulant little brat, but he certainly is misbehaving, harry reid. can i ask mort what he thinks about all this? >> no, we're going to get to news. >> you're absolutely right about david brodeur. he's built up an entire career on the most reasonable assessment of what's going on in political life. when he makes a judgment, it doesn't come out of any petulance or ideology, it's a very practical point. he had a very good point about what harry reid was doing about the whole medical care. it was a surprise to a lot of people, he's consulted a lot of people, and, bang, he puts it on the line. harry reid couldn't take it. >> you probably need drums. let's get the drums going. it will make it easier for you. >> please play the drums. >> let's bring t.j.'s casio back in. now it's your time. i'm just going to be quiet. president obama is signaling his intentions to send thousands of u.s. troops to afghanistan despite slipping public support for the war. an announcement is expected early next week likely during a primetime address on tuesday. although most details are not yet public, including the exact number of troops and specific exit strategies, the president says he intends to destroy terror networks during the course of his administration. meanwhile, the president is also reaching out to india, another major player in the region. the country's prime minister was the guest of honor last night at the first state dinner. although there were plenty of big hollywood and media names on hand, the focus turned to international relations. >> tonight we gather again for the first state dinner of my presidency with prime minister manmohan singh and mrs. gersherwan as we celebrate the growing partnership between the united states and india. mr. prime minister, today we work to fulfill our duty, bring our countries closer together than ever before. tonight under the stars we celebrate the spirit that will sustain our partnership, the bonds of friendship between our people. >> all right. according to "the washington post," a new forecast from the federal reserve shows the nation's unemployment rate will stay elevated for years. >> oh, my goodness, this is just bad news for america. >> it does, especially after yesterday's news about the real unemployment rate. in october, the figure hit 10th.2%, a 26-year high. >> we talked about how it's going to affect the elections in 2010 around here because we talk about politics, but this recession may affect the 2012 election and the 2014 election. when we talk about, mort, that we've reset the economy, that we're not going to be driven by just crazed consumerism, that means something. we either start building things here in this country again, or this economy doesn't turn around, and people don't get back to work. and maybe, just maybe one day washington politicians will start focusing on that. >> you know what it brings forward too is a really dysfunctional political system to address these issues. they put together a stimulus program, and so much of it goes to pet projects of the individual congressmen and senators and so much of it gets dislieutenanted. it doesn't really focus in on the problem. here we are a year later, and it's had virtually no effect on the unemployment number. the unemployment number soars past where it used to be. by the way be with the unemployment numbers are much worse than those numbers because those numbers only take into account big business, not small business. if you look at those numbers, it's called the household numbers. in the last three months alone, there were 2 million more people unemployed than those numbers. >> mort has a great piece in "the wall street journal" today, finding the right fix for too big to fail. >> the dysfunction that mort is talking about is republican dysfunction and democratic dysfunction. i remember after 9/11, the 9/11 bill that came out to keep america safe, just filled with pork. just it was sickening after 9/11. anyway, it is a dysfunctional political system, both parties guilty. >> a lot of it is in the piece. even with massive recovery programs, officials say the rate could top 7.5% in 2012 during the next presidential cycle. yesterday the commerce department reported the third quarter gdp grew at 2.8%, slower than previous estimates of 3.5%. still it was the first expansion of the economy after four straight quarters of contraction. officials in kentucky believe a census worker hanging in a tree, terrible story. >> this is terrible what radio talk show hosts did, encouraged people to kill this guy. >> he had the word "fed" scrawled on his chest. >> it's mean right wing talkers that did this. it's so sad. >> no, actually, it wasn't. i know everyone is saying this. apparently -- it's a terribly sad story, but it's not what you're saying. apparently, he staged his own death, killed himself to make it look like a homicide. although initially investigated, as you said, joe, as a potential hate crime, authorities now believe the man had cancer and may have been trying to mask his death for a big insurance payout. a terrible tragedy, just not the one that a lot of folks were describing. >> a lot of people on the left were talking about. and despite concerns over the economy, aaa is estimating more than 38 million americans will travel 50 miles or more for the thanksgiving holiday. let's quickly get out six reporters on that story, shall we? everyone line the highways. all right. while it's a jump from last year, far fewer will be traveling by air. got to get someone at the airport. "the new york times." >> it looks like one there. >> "the new york times" is reporting that many travelers book cheaper flights, meaning the travel crunch started last week. we definitely need someone on site to tell us that. >> the only way i will travel 50 miles this thanksgiving is if it is 50 miles between my thanksgiving dinner table and my bed. >> there you go. >> and i don't think it's going to be. in a "new york times" article, maureen o'dowd explains -- here's the story. she explains bill clinton may be the reason caroline kennedy wasn't picked by governor paterson to fill the new york senate seat. "it recalled obama's failure to lift a finger to help caroline kennedy after she had lifted him at a crucial moment. when the loopy governor david paterson was dragging her through the mud and refusing to announce a decision on the appointment for the new york senate seat. paterson was being lobbied by a vengeful bill clinton. bill was still upset at caroline for bestowing the camelot mantle, which he had tried to claim during his campaigns, on obama. yet no one from the obama camp tried to counteract bill and straighten out paterson." that op-ed is chockful of tidbits. >> first of all, we have learned over the past year the obama team does not -- the president himself does not rise to the defense of those that have supported him in the past if it's not popular. but also, bill clinton, my gosh, this is pretty explosive, mort zuckerman. bill clinton lobbying to stop caroline kennedy from being the senator. >> i have to say, he may have done that. but the reason why caroline kennedy is not the senator is that she decided that she didn't want to do it. she had been through this totally ridiculous campaign that she had been sent out on as if she were running for the senate, and it was an appointment, and in the end she found it so distasteful that she informed the governor that she didn't want to go ahead with this. the governor was upset by it, i have to tell you, but it was her decision basically. there may have been other games being played, but finally it was her decision. >> and mika -- governor paterson, his problems began with new york voters when he allowed caroline kennedy to sort of dangle out there for as long as he did. >> that was a real disaster. >> and then they trashed her behind the scenes to reporters with information that just wasn't true. >> absolutely. >> at the same time, you have bill clinton, according to maureen dowd, trying to deep six her as well. very ugly. the whole thing was very ugly. >> and the piece that maureen dowd writes is also very much about greg craig, which we'll get to in must read op-eds. it's a fascinating cycle. >> you said john boehner, his tan. i want to look that orange. how do you get -- speaking of basted, it's like he's basted. >> i thought he went to the tanning booth. it just sort of seemed like that from my teenage years of my friends over tanning and kind of turned like a carrot. >> yeah. >> so far this year, house minority leader john boehner's political action committee has spent -- and this could be the reason for the tan -- almost $83,000 on golf outings. >> what? >> his most recent outing, at invitation only trent jones golf course in virginia, cost $20,000. >> a $20,000 golf game? >> you can't spend more money than that, can you, mika? >> yes, you can. at a jack nicklaus designed course, $29,000. >> that's almost $30,000. that has to be the most he's ever spent at a golf course. >> no, no, no. at a ritz-carlton golf course in florida, over $30,000 to play golf. and to get that fabulous tan. >> i'm not letting him off the hook. that does not explain the tan in february when it's snowing in washington. >> that's when he went to maybe the bahamas to play golf. >> let me just say, in all seriousness, that is the leader of the republican party in the house of representatives who is lecturing democrats right now on fiscal responsibility. that is the republican leader in the house of representatives that claims, if you just let him take over as speaker of the house, that we're going to clean things up in washington, d.c. >> everybody's going to be tan is what he meant. >> we're going to tan everybody, and all you have to do is pay $30,000 for a golf game. this is -- you know what, this is the sort of thing that happens in washington, d.c., and party members just meekly line up behind their leader and say nothing. you know what, in this case, if republicans do it, they get what they deserve. that's what they did over the past eight years, and that's why we have the huge deficit, a huge debt, and why we have democrats running washington, d.c. >> i make fun of the tan, but i think the whole thing is a complete joke, and it's embarrassing. we say the same about the rangel accounts. >> it's outrageous, mort. >> it's absolutely silly. it makes them all look silly. it undermines their credibility. >> makes them silly and orange. >> coming up, an exclusive first look at this morning's politico playbook, how obama will sell his strategy in afghanistan. and you'll like this if you've ever been a passenger stranded on an airport tarmac, joe. ever waited and waited and waited? yesterday the department of transportation did something it's never done before. first here's ginger zee with a check on the holiday forecast. good morning to you. here's a real travel tool i have to use. two areas of concern in south florida, you may run into a few problems. and right into chicago, you don't need storms to have problems at o'hare, but you won't today. right now it's all in green. look for the forecast in the northeast to be okay. few peeks of sun in new york, high of 53. all over the country looking pretty good. snow for chicago. and a little chance in the midsection of the country. not a bad one. we'll have more coming up. national car rental knows i'm picky. so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. of walmart's $10 90-day generic prescriptions... ...no matter where you live. plus get free shipping on over 3,000 other prescriptions. call 1-800-2-refill for your free home delivery. save money. live better. walmart. tonight at the white house, president obama is hosting, i think, his first state dinner. it's for the prime minister of intd ya. to make the prime minister feel welcome, it will include curry, chutney, and other indian foods. and to make everyone else feel welcome, the dessert will be tums, mylana, and imodium ad. >> at least they're not focused on president bush. they've moved on. a look at the morning papers. "the new york times" shows president obama exchanging a toast in his first state dinner as president. the headline on the right, obama may add 30,000 troops in afghanistan. president expected to lay out strategy and precise figure next week. >> in "usa today," public approval of the president's handling of the war in afghanistan has plummeted, according to a new "usa today"/gallup poll. >> commanders in put the troops secured from the white house to securing the country's southern region. >> and "the washington post," washington wizards owner in sports dies at the age of 85. he was a real washington fixture. >> now let's go to willie for politico. >> let's turn to the chief political correspondent for politico, mike allen. he's a got a look, as he always does at this time, at the morning playbook. >> happy getaway day to you. >> you know, the airports and roads are going to be very busy today. i don't know if you've heard that. >> it will? >> it's in all the trade magazines. let's talk about president obama and the story he'll be pitching on afghanistan. there's going to be a major speech coming. you've got insight into what he's going to say. >> the president is going to focus on education. they know this can't be a pep rally. people need more information if they're going to overcome the poll numbers that joe was just referring to. what we're going to hear a lot of is how america will benefit from a more secure and stable afghanistan and how helping secure afghanistan will make america safer from terrorism. you're going to hear also a lot about don't just focus on the troop number. and, of course, the press has rightly looked at that because that's been one of the biggest variables in these ten meetings the president has had. the president is going to say also, look at the allies. look at what we're asking pakistan to do. look at what we're asking afghanistan to do. look at the civilian aid we're pouring out. look at the whole package, not just the troops. he's going to say, even though this is frustrating, they're not going to have the normal hall marks of victory. i think we can all agree. we can say, we do know what failure looks like. failure looks like a country where al qaeda is allowed to act unchecked and in a dangerous way for america. keep bringing it home. >> mike, the president himself acknowledged yesterday this has been a long process, a deliberative process. in the end, who do you think most has his ear? who will most influence the strategy he comes up with? >> he's turned out to listen to his generals. he made a big point of getting alternative views to the package that general mcchrystal had originally proposed, that 40,000. that number at the end is going to look like it, 20,000 to 40,000, probably on the higher end of that. plus the victory versus the generals. the white house was very intentional about how the president considered other points of view. they're going to try to draw that as a contrast to iraq. that's why we kept getting read-outs about these ten meetings, including a flicker photo from every meeting they could dissect because they wanted to remind people the president didn't rush into this. >> that's right. we're about ten months into the administration here, and there's been a word we're starting to hear over and over again out of the white house. what is it? >> 192 times, to be precise. this is an unprecedented presidency. the president loves the word unprecedented. the problem is politico's carol lee looked into it and discovered that every time he uses it, it's not clearly unprecedent. the president says this was an unprecedented town hall that he had in shanghai with the students the other day. the bushes were like, wait a minute, we did a town hall in china, and ours was actually televised nationwide, unlike theirs. the white house says that it's technically true in all these cases. so he's used it about 200 times already, roughly twice a week. >> and he's used it about the economy, unprecedented economic turmoil, like the people who lived through the great depression might have something to say about that. happy thanksgiving. >> you too. >> have a great turkey day. we'll talk next week. thank you so much, mike. >> coming up next, sports with me. also, "washington post" columnist david brodeur no fan of senate majority leader harry reid, and the feeling aapparently is mutual. that is coming up. plus the one and only bill murray for some reason agreed to come in this studio and sit and talk to us. bill murray joins us when "morning joe" continues. you know it's brewed by starbucks. 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(announcer) colgate 360 actiflex. teeth, tongue cheeks and gums. for a whole mouth clean. colgate: recommended by dentists. welcome back to "morning joe." just before 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of today's top stories. early next week, president obama is expected to announce his strategy for the u.s.-led war in afghanistan. the president is said to be supporting a plan that over time would deploy about 32,000 to 35,000 additional u.s. forces to the country. despite dwindling public support for the war, the president says he is confident americans will rally behind the new strategy. the space shuttle "atlantis" is heading home today after nearly a week at the international space station. the shuttle undocked just about 90 minutes ago, and the astronauts are scheduled to touch down in florida on friday. for the first time airlines are paying a price for stranding passengers on the tarmac. >> good. >> yes. yesterday the government fined three airlines a total of $175,000 for their roles in leaving passengers stuck on a plane overnight. >> that's a lot of money. can i get some of that money? >> no. you don't get any of it. >> it's not enough. >> what if you were in john boehner's district and you were out of work, and he spent more money -- or what if you worked all year, and he spept more money at one golf outing than you made all year. just curious. >> yeah. he's a sporty guy. >> whose money was it? >> that's the question. >> how do you spend $30,000 playing golf? that's what i want to know. >> speaking of sports, let's go to willie geist. >> quick thing i want to read before we get into sports. the refs are cheaters. there's a new study by a group of college professors. they surveyed 365 college basketball games and found that, in fact, referees are biased. 70% more fouls called on road teams than home teams, and they're always makeup calls. the refs are cheaters. to the nba, world champion lakers hosting the knicks, who are champions of nothing. alex rodriguez at courtside watching his hometown knicks play in l.a. kobe bryant making quick work of these knicks. spin through the double-team. where's the "d"? where's it been all season? lakers up 14 at that point. kobe, just a nice little fallaway three-pointer out of the corner, nothing fancy. 100-90 lakers win. kobe had 34. no surprise in the national league mvp race. cardinals' albert pujols wips his second straight award. he became the first to repeat since barry bonds won for 2001 through 2004. >> does barry bonds have to give back his awards? >> no, he does not. >> pujols became the first repeat mvp since bonds did it in 2002. >> is pujols a cheater? >> some people suggest he's a little bit older than the stats say, but no cheating. more craziness at notre dame. looks like charlie weis has been fired. jimmy clausen was sucker punched by a person as he was leaving a restaurant with his parents. somebody clocked him. weis refused to xwhent. he said clausen will practice and play this week. clausen not available to talk to a media. he was wearing a dark shield over his helmet because we hear he's got a black eye from being clocked by a fan as he was leaving a restaurant with his parents. it's ugly in south bend. >> you know what, they need to do -- i wrote a really angry op-ed after rich rodriguez, the worst coach in america, said no to alabama. i basically said, you're a great institution. start acting like one. hire somebody like -- and i said sabin. i said hire sabin or fire the entire athletic department. if notre dame doesn't hire a top tier coach that has already won a national championship like stoops, they need to fire everybody in the athletic department. >> if you play the odds, which you could if you were so inclined, urban meyer is the number one choice, especially if he goes out and wins another national championship in florida. >> they've got to get him. history last night, women's college basketball. a freshman by the name of brittany greiner becoming the seventh woman to ever dunch in a college basketball game. that was a legitimate throwdown. 6'8" greiner dunked five minutes into baylor's big win over jacksonville state. the last woman to dunk in a game, back in february of 2008. good throwdown. >> you're so good at sports, willie. so smooth. just like butter. >> it's the news, it's not me. >> he captures the essence of it. >> he does. he captures it. coming up next, is that inconvenient truth an unexpected lie? what? no. reports are out saying global warming studies were fixed. >> fixed? what do you mean fixed? >> plus we'll focus on special correspondent martin savidge. >> i'm a little uncomfortable. what am i, a potted plant? are you going to kiss me? i want a kiss. okay, i'll shake your hand. >> all right. i'm uncomfortable. he's going to help us take a look at this morning's must read opinion pages. we'll be right back. i don't know. you know, volkswagen takes care of the scheduled maintenance at no cost. and during the sign then drive event, you can get a cc, jetta, or top safety-rated tiguan for practically just your signature. it's that easy. i can't believe it. 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[ male announcer ] sign then drive is back. hurry in and get legendary volkswagen value for practically just your signature. ♪ to redefine air travel for a new generation. to ensure our forces are safer and stronger. to take the world we share to tomorrow and beyond. announcer: around the globe, the people of boeing are working together-- to make a difference. that's why we're here. do you ever think that maybe you're wrong about global warming? >> i think the science is very clear on global warming. >> why do you have to impose it on me? >> why do you have to impose dirty air on me in los angeles? >> let me explain what i'm talking about. i am not allowed to buy incandescent light bulbs. >> what year in the future are you not allowed to buy them? >> does it matter? the government is telling us i may not have incandescent lights. >> it's telling us we can't have smoggy vehicles either. the area is half the smog. >> begley, i'm surprised at you. >> ed begley. that was stuart varney. >> that's quite an exchange. >> yes, there's quite an exchange. there's a lot of talk about climate scandals and a new washington post poll. >> let's start with special correspondent for world focus martin savidge here. still getting over his entrance. >> thank you. >> let's look at this "washington post"/abc news poll. 72% of americans believe in global warming, a drop from 80% last year. but a majority supports a cap on greenhouse gas emissions with 53% backing a cap and trade bill and 42% opposing it. looking internationally, 22% of americans want to take on global warming only if other industrial countries agree to do the same. 55% believe the u.s. should still take action even if other countries do less. and 22% believe that no steps should be taken at all. adding fuel to the debate on climate change, britain's telegraph newspaper released a series of e-mails from prominent scientists who promote global warming theories, and one of those damaging alleged e-mails showed they manipulated the data. here's what one of them said. i've just completed mike's nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series to the last 20 years -- ie from 1981 onwards -- and from 1961 for keith's to hide the decline. it exposes doubts about whether the world is really heating up. >> we can go on. okay. the point is that we can't account for the lack of global warming at the moment, and it's a travesty that we can't. the data published in the august bams '09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be more warming, but the data are surely wrong. our observing system is inadequate. martin, a lot of british newspapers talking about this, talking about some of these top scientist ins global warming are e-mailing each other back and forth about how they're having to make facts up. >> it did look very, very bad. >> very, very bad. >> read this in "the new york times" over the weekend, and it's shocking when you see this. but think of the timing too. this comes out just before the major climate convention that's going to take place in copenhagen. somebody is also playing with this as well. this did not just accidentally leak out at this particular time. the climate is changing. that's a given. the scientists are clearly grappling with exactly why. are we the cause, or are we not the cause? unfortunately, when you look at this exchange, i think the majority of science still indicates the climate is changing probably due to man made reasoning. but when you see this exchange that took place, when you hear of tricks being pulled on the part of scientists. >> and some of the top scientists -- and you talk about -- and this is a question. is the climate warming up because of man made reasons? is it warming up because of cyclical reasons. there's another e-mail where they talk about trying to push away unfortunate warming in medieval times as well. let's just forget what happened 1,000 years ago and try to explain that a different way. >> i don't think anybody can explain all thf. that is the problem the scientists have. somehow or other the data doesn't fully form to the conclusions of global warming. that may be the causes are attributed to manmade activity, and i'm sure that's true to some extent. there always has to be an overwhelming case. it's not an overwhelming case. it's way too complicated to be an overwhelming case. >> the bottom line in the poll numbers and what these stories are leading to, two years ago, if you asked the question, is this manmade or because of natural changes in the climate, you would have been called a flat earther. now there is more of a skepticism about it. >> you're right. >> we've always been a skeptical nation. you look at how many people still don't believe we landed on the moon. >> you're right. willie and i aren't skeptical. we know it was a back lot in burbank. where have you been, mort? >> some people believe boehner got a sun tan from honest work. >> tanning bed is what i thought it was. >> is anything true? >> is there anything sacred? >> let's take a look a little more at maureen dowd's piece in "the new york times." she talks about greg craig's departure from the obama administration after he really left the clintons and he was very close with them, to work for obama and work very effectively to undermine then candidate hillary clinton's foreign policy. >> and then he got thrown overboard. >> it was brutally effective, taking apart her claims of involvement country by country and noting, as far as the record shows, senator clinton never answered the phone either to make a decision on any pressing national security issue, not at 3:00 a.m. or at any other time of the day. i often wondered if craig and u.n. ambassador susan rice, the other former clinton official who helped undermine hillary's foreign policy record, would have done so if they had known that, after turning on hillary, they would once more end up working beside her. if they had known that obama can often be more interested in wooing opponents than tending to those who put themselves on the line for him. >> listen, this is a president who throws people under the bus when it's convenient. you look at greg craig, this guy -- i mean, talk about a personal sacrifice to move away from the clintons to go work for obama. that gives him more authority to undermine hillary clinton. and then things don't go great with gitmo because he's doing what the president promised to do on the campaign trail. marty, they've run him out. >> some of this could be described as just politics. this is the way it operates in washington. if you do what is asked of you, then you're a hero. if you can't quite produce, then you're not. it's not an international subject, so i'm not following it that closely. >> if you do what's asked of you -- >> this is politics. it's dirty politics. it really is. throw the people who sacrificed themselves, throw them overboard in a not very nice way, i might add. he was thrown overboard in a not very nice way. >> sort of hearing back channel stories on this that it was a pretty rough ride and he's a good guy. >> let's face it. let's be brutally honest. this barack obama is very effective at throwing people under the bus when they don't suit his purposes anymore. >> him or the people around him? do you think it's his direct decision? >> yeah, the buck stops with him, yeah. >> it would never have happened to somebody like at this level could have been thrown out -- if you read the dialogue that went on, particularly in relation to gitmo and other issues as to whether or not certain people should be prosecuted or not prosecuted, it's clear that he was coming out in a different place, and he wanted all of it to be an open court. it was a traditional liberal line. and, of course, it turned out to be a lot less, shall we say, popular politically. >> that goes very much against the sort of public perception of the president. he's a very likable guy, the guy you want to have by for dinner. the idea that he would do something like this, i think, would disturb a lot of people. >> i think he's a likable guy, but if he doesn't need you any more, boom, under the bus. >> martin savidge, you're going to stick around. still need to talk about afghanistan. big decision coming on tuesday. some saying finally. and we'll also talk straight ahead, reid versus brodeur. why the senate majority leader in a feud with "the washington post" columnist. we'll discuss with former dnc chairman howard dean. up next, a little "news you can't use." it turns out tom delay has been practicing his texas two-step and put it on display last night. >> delay dances, and it doesn't cost money, but boehner golfs. >> he's tan too. >> but not from $30,000 golf rounds. >> $30,000. have you seen this man? up next, how the world's worst police sketch actually worked. keep it right here on -- what the heck is that? >> police sketch. >> keep it right here on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. with pillsbury pie crust, making the perfect holiday pie requires one skill the ability to gracefully accept compliments please tell me it's time. >> stop talking about serious things like war. >> did you hear what marty said? it's time. >> from the pipes of marty savidge. >> it is time. >> no offense, mika, but that's a little bit better. >> that's going to be my ring tone, by the way. >> say it again. >> that's a good one. i would pay to have that on my phone. a couple of months ago, tom delay heroically took himself out of the game on "dancing with the stars." he had the two stress fractures. >> said daddy didn't raise a quitter. didn't matter whether his feet hurt or not. he quit the next week. >> couldn't go forward. but he made his dramatic return last night on the finale of "dancing with the stars." apparently healed. the hammer did the texas two-step with the famous cheryl burke wearing a little cow girl number there. let's watch tom delay do his thing. ♪ i can't see texas i can't see texas ♪ ♪ i can't see texas anymore >> drink it in. long and slow. >> i think she's terrific. >> i've had problems with tom in the past, as i have with every republican leader, but i tip my cowboy hat to him, seriously, for going out there and giving it his all. i wouldn't have had the guts to do that. mika says no. >> i didn't need to see that. >> it wasn't that bad. >> he gave it all. some gave it all. >> all right. you know what -- >> that was his native dance. i think he did it very nicely. >> i tip my hat to him. shocking news, guys, out of the oprah winfrey show. >> what? >> as if last week wasn't bad enough, we're now hearing reports from huffington post and katherine thompson, the writer there -- >> k. tom. >> there are not going to be favorite things this year. katherine talked to somebody at the oprah winfrey show who told katherine, quote, we have no plans for favorite things. people live for this to see what products oprah will bestow upon her audience. it leads to screaming, squealing, people's heads popping off as they did last year when she gave away a refrigerator. >> okay, audience. inside this box is the most expensive gift in favorite things history. let her go. [ cheers and applause ] >> it's a refrigerator. >> it's crazy. >> the reaction -- >> oh, my god. it's a refrigerator, ladies. >> but it's a refrigerator that you get from oprah. >> well, that's true. i would scream if oprah gave me -- oprah, will you give me a refrigerator? i'll scream on tv. >> no screaming this year. >> i love oprah. when are we going to get oprah on our show? she watches our show. >> we learned she kind of watches the show. >> maybe only when dale is on. >> or maybe never. the worst police sketch ever. keep in mind this is an actual police sketch used to successfully identify a criminal in bolivia. wow. we don't have a good sketch artist down there. believe it or not -- >> that's my roommate, by the way, at university of alabama. >> i have lots of friends who look like that. >> for one thing, that's a horrible hair do. this sketch was used to catch, believe it or not, a killer. a killer in bolivia was described this way, and this was the rendering given by the police sketch artist. they foupd the guy based on that sketch. >> really? >> can you believe that? >> do we have a picture of the guy? >> no. because by law in bolivia, you can't show a picture of the guy until he's convicted. that's the picture they're using in papers to identify the guy. >> i want to know who looks like that. >> it's the graph lines i like. >> coming up next, the senator versus the columnist. what's behind the growing feud between harry reid and david brodeur? we'll discuss that and more with former dnc chairman dr. howard dean. >> i love him. i love this song "dreamin." >> and later bill murray joins us here at the table to talk about his new movie. bill murray ahead on "morning joe." okay, now here's our holiday gift list. aww, not the mall. well, i'll do the shopping... if you do the shipping. shipping's a hassle. i'll go to the mall. hey. hi. you know, holiday shipping's easy with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. yea, i know. oh, you're good. good luck! priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. it's so hard to choose one. you know, during the sign then drive event, you can get a cc, tiguan or fuel-efficient jetta for practically just your signature. you can get scheduled maintenance at no cost. there's gotta be more to it than that. [ car door closes, tires screech ] [ engine revs ] ♪ [ tires screech ] [ pen scratches ] [ camera shutter clicks ] i'll never doubt you again. [ male announcer ] sign then drive is back. hurry in and get legendary volkswagen value for practically just your signature. ♪ two of nature's sweetest wonders now in new sun crystals ® . the only 100% natural sweetener made with pure cane sugar and stevia. with just 5 calories a packet. new sun crystals ® all natural sweetener. welcome back to "morning joe." mort zuckerman is with us. also with us, former democratic governor of vermont and former dnc chair, howard dean, or as mika calls him, howie. >> no, it's howard. but only for me. >> what is this howie stuff? >> no howie, no. it's howard. >> i just want to say it's a privilege to be on the same show with the guy who runs the best sports page in new york. absolutely true. >> it is a great sports section. >> hands down. >> hands down. >> you know, before we get to the top of the hour, i want to ask dr. dean about something he said yesterday, which as you said, democrats are in trouble on health care reform, the moderate, the conservative wing, the four or five democrats, they've taken over. >> i wouldn't say they've exactly taken over. >> of the health care debate. you said it's going to be hard to pass a health care bill. >> the problem is there's not much insurance reform left in the bill. so if you don't have a public option -- the public option is the insurance reform because it will do things the private insurance sector will have to copy in terms of how they treat consumers. >> and you've said before in the past, i think on this show, if it the public option is not in there -- >> it's not worth passing. >> it's not worth passing a bill. >> bernie sanders, the senate from vermont, he's very liberal and so forth, but he has an interesting idea which might make sense. if you can't pass a public option, get rid of the bureaucracy and this enormous money for the insurance companies and expand public programs. it won't be a universal step, but it's much better -- this is going to make the aig bailout look like a five and ten cent store. >> i saw that ben nelson, senator from nebraska, actually stripped a provision out that would have made sure antitrust laws apply to insurance companies. >> it's silly. >> so ben nelson was defending insurance companies. >> it's no surprise. ben nelson was a former insurance commissioner and takes $2 billion from the insurance industry. that kind of stuff happens in washington. i don't defend it, but it's kind of the way the game is played. i think the bill that harry got to the floor is a decent bill. it's not everything i would want. nobody gets everything they would want. if you strip out the public option, it's a big, big problem because you basically -- that's the last piece of insurance reform in the bill. if you're not going to do insurance reform, why do the bill? >> speaking of harry reid, we're going to be talking after news about the battle between harry reid and david brodeur. >> what is going on? >> you take the majority leader's side. >> i do. >> i'm going to side with the dean, the real dean of the washington press corps. >> i'll have that. >> also, i want your take on john boehner's tan. just curious. >> it's a wonderful tan. >> orange actually, and we think we know why. >> i'd like to hear why. there may be a medical reason for this. i want to find out. >> it's not medical. >> it's not good for -- >> no. it's just a lot of time in the sun. >> is that right? >> on the golf course spending $30,000 on a single golf course. >> i know people who have that look because they drink carrot juice. >> right. >> they get something called hyperkeratinemia. it just means you drink so much carrot juice, it turns your skin orange. >> out on the golf course. >> it's an i spray-on job. >> no. not like what hollywood actresses do. to our top stories, president obama is signaling his intention to send thousands of additional u.s. troops to afghanistan despite slipping public support for the war. an announcement is expected early next week likely during a primetime address on tuesday. although most details are not yet public, including the exact number of troops and specific exit strategies, the president says he intends to destroy terror networks during the course of his administration. >> after eight years, some of those years in which we did not have, i think, either the resources or the strategy to get the job done, it is my intention to finish the job. and i feel very confident that, when the american people hear a clear rationale for what we're doing there and how we intend to achieve our goals, that they will be supportive. >> martin savidge, will the world community be supportive? is afghanistan a war that most of the world community thinks america has to win? >> depends which part of the world you're talking to. when you talk to pakistan, the people of pakistan think this is america's fight. they don't know why they're involved and why they're being forced to fight against the taliban, which they don't necessarily consider an enemy of their own country. if you talk to people of great britain, the nato project going on in afghanistan, they're not in favor of this. a lot of people can't understand the reasoning after eight years. what is the united states' goal going to be? that's the problem the president is going to have. it's not figuring out how many troops to send in? it's when do you get out? and how do you define what's going to be victory? if victory is the word you can use. what is we've been there long enough, we've achieved the goals. what were the goals in the first place? now we can leave. >> i know most republicans support sending more troops, support mcchrystal's plan. i don't. you were an anti-war candidate in 2003/2004. >> my position was actually the same as the president's four years later. i did not support iraq because i felt we weren't being told the truth. i did support going into afghanistan. >> do you still support us staying there and amping up 40,000 troops? >> i want to hear what the president has to say next week. it is a very, very complex, difficult issue. we're going to be there one way or the other, whether we're there with troops on the ground or whether we're there with drones and special ops forced. i want to hear what the president has to say before i make my judgment on this one. >> my problem is -- and 39% of americans want to withdraw. 37% say increase by 40,000. i mean, we are split there. but my feeling, mika, is we've been there for eight years. mcchrystal wants us there for another ten years. enough is enough. we'll see what the president does. >> i don't disagree with that. meanwhile, the president is also reaching out to india, another major player in the region. the country's prime minister was the guest of honor at the first state dinner. although there were plenty of hollywood and media people on hand, the focus turned to international relations. >> tonight we gather again for the first state dinner of my presidency with prime minister manmohan singh and mrs. gersherwan. as we celebrate the great and growing partnership between the united states and india. mr. prime minister, today we work to fulfill our duty, bring our countries closer together than ever before. tonight under the stars we celebrate the spirit that will sustain our partnership, the bonds of friendship between our people. >> you know how you build those bonds of friendship, i think. >> how? >> i think those two guys should go out and golf. >> yes, they should, a great deal, and they should spend a great deal of money doing so. >> i think so, and i think it will -- >> i think it sets a good example in this tough economy. >> because there are a lot of people that don't even make $30,000 a year. >> that's right. >> if you go out -- it's kind of like evita who would go around showing her diamonds to people. the poor people of argentina, she would say, they look up to me. you can aspire to be like me. now you get someone running the republican party that you aspire to. if you go into congress and change america, you too can spend $30,000 on one game of golf. >> so far this year, john boehner's political action committee has spent almost $83,000 on golf outings. howard, you wouldn't do that, would snu >> i don't play golf. >> his most recent outing at the invitation only robert trent jones course in virginia cost $20,000. at a jack nicklaus designed course, $29,000. >> that's a great course in ohio, by the way. >> it is. >> and the ritz-carlton course in florida -- >> i never played there. >> i was a caddie. >> that one cost $30,000. >> mika, we're joking a lot about his tan and everything, but seriously, think about the people out of work in his district, in ohio, across america, across the midwest. think about $30,000 spent at one golf course at a time when unemployment's approaching 20%. >> and by a political action committee. it's not even his own money. it's money he raises. >> what's the deal? he takes everybody out and play golf, and they all give him a lot of money. >> obviously, these things are for fund-raisers. the guy loves golfing. he's always loved golfing. i just wonder, though, the republicans -- these republicans who were talking about we're going to squeeze every dime, we're going to balance the budget. we know we didn't do it over the past eight years, but give us a chance again to take over, and we're going to be responsible this time. he's the guy who's leading the republican party in washington, d.c., and he's spending $83,000 this year golfing. >> it's always been the weakness. it's actually a weakness that george bush didn't have. george bush had a real common touch. most of these in the republican leadership, they think they're entitled to this. it's the marie antoinette syndrome. it's why they don't get traction on an issue that is a core republican issue, which is fiscal responsibility and all that stuff, is because the average working person who's worried about their job sees this, and they don't think these people are in touch with their concerns, and it's true. >> doesn't seem to be. >> are you trying to suggest that democrats get traction on the issue of fiscal responsibility? you've got a very, very tough argument to make if that's the case. >> no. mort, the point i was trying to make is the way back for the republican party is to get away from all this social bigotry and focus on jobs and taxes. they can't do that if the people who are worried about those things see them play golf at an $83,000 golf outing. >> it's cash for hackers. it's the stimulus package. >> it is cash for hackers. >> you know what, the thing is -- and howard's right. democrats -- and i don't say this negatively toward democrats. democrats can get away with certain things that republicans can't get away with. if you're going to say, we're the party of fiscal responsibility, we're the party that's going to protect your tax dollars, we're better than the democrats, then you hold yourself to a higher standard. you don't spend $83,000 a year golfing. >> joe, you just don't understand the value of a sun tan. >> we've got an e-mail that explains a lot about a couple of stories we're talking about today. chris? >> this one is from rifton, new york. just look at john boehner, and we all have the proof we need that there is, in fact, global warming. >> the ozone layer is wearing away. >> are you sure he doesn't go to a tanning salon? bizarre anyhow, just to have that look, and he's standing there in front of the cameras. it says legions about the man, just to find out his political action committee, another $83,000 on it, just boggles the mind. >> $83,000 to golf. >> i'm unqualified to give medical advice, it's been so long since i've been practicing, but you've got to take in a lot of uv rays to do that. you've got to watch out later on. >> your fis just falls off at some point. let's talk about the fight. there is a fight going on in washington, d.c., between two heavyweights. >> "the washington post" columnist david brodeur is no fan apparently of senate majority leader harry reid, and the feeling, we have discovered, is aparptly mutual. take a listen to reid on the senate floor on saturday. >> madam president, to focus on an editorial written by a man who's been retired for many years and writes a column once in a while is not where we should be. >> and here's how david brodeur responded now. he writes this, "i hope he's more accurate about the bill than he is about me, brodeur told politico in response to reid's jab. and i'm not retired. the fact that reid was so annoyed by brodeur's column shows if anything, that the dean, as he is sometimes known, remains a continuing influence in washington revered by his peers for his hard work, and reporting instincts, and by moderates as a voice of sanity even as he has come to symbolize conventional wisdom to critics on the left. in an age of ideological divisions, broeder is widely known as a fair arbiter on capitol hill, a journalist who's as interested in the process as he is in in the policy and politics. he favors practicing matisted over fierce ideologues and speaks up for decorum in washington politics." >> it seems to me that extremes on both sides are irritated by what a lot of people consider a good, sane, moderate voice. >> he is a sane moderate voice, but he also has a tendency to be sanctimonious. he's a classic inside the belt way columnist. >> an editorialist being sanctimonious? >> i revere harry reid. >> do you really? >> i do. >> who reveres harry reid? >> i do. he's a great friend. he supported himself going through college by being a boxer. that's how he made his money. the guy is a brawler. he gets stuff done. he's not the most articulate guy on television. we got to be great friends because he got me in his office when i was running for chairman. he said, i don't think you ought to take this job, and i think you ought to drop out. i didn't, and we've been great friends ever since. we're the same way. we're just like that. we want to get things done. harry wants to get things done. he doesn't like being criticized by people who never had to take a vote in their life, and i'm with harry reid on this one. >> you can't be ignoring what david broder was writing about vis-a-vis harry reid. he'd basically spoken to experts in medical care, and everybody virtually to a man that everyone believes this health care bill is going to increase the cost of health care and not decrease it. this is something to be worried about. harry reid is mainly responsible for it. that's a very legitimate comment from a very serious writer. >> but i've seen -- david is an inside the belt way guy. it's not fair to call him a gossip, but that's what inside the beltway columnists do. >> he is not a gossip columnist. >> he's not a gossip columnist, mort -- >> he does a lot of reporting and speaks to a lot of experts. you may call it gossip. we call it good journalism. >> inside the belt way is sort of an incestuous thing. that's who he talks to, these, quote, experts and stuff. >> i'm with harry. i believe in doing things, not just writing about them. >> i think most americans are probably with david broder right now, very concerned this is going to drive up costs. i know we've got cbo estimates. >> cbo is pretty much the gold standard in washington. >> it is the gold standard. what does cbo do? what they did in the senate bill, they put off the expenditures, real expenditures until 2014, and they kept all the income. so they kept the numbers down in terms of what the costs are. >> not so. the deficit drops $123 billion in the second decade when everything is fully implemented, according to cbo. we all get mad at cbo when they don't agree with us, but you've got to respect them. >> it also assumes all kinds of expenditures that will be cut out or cost reductions that have never been passed by the congress. >> all right. >> so many problems with that cbo number, it's just ridiculous. >> i don't think you can do that. you can't pick and choose which cbo numbers you like? >> oh, yes, you can. >> you can do anything you like because you are a newspaper man. >> he can do whatever he wants, baby. >> that's right. >> stay with us, dr. dean, governor dean. >> and our thanks to world focus special correspondent martin savidge. thank you very much. >> when we come back, i want to talk about the maureen dowd column that talks about bill clinton trying to elbow caroline kennedy out. and not let her be senator. >> quite a nugget in that. this morning's headlines out of the white house as well straight ahead. savannah guthrie will join us with the gaggle from the north lawn, including what was in the president's glass during the state dinner toast, and it was not champagne. any guesses? plus "morning joe" has an exclusive first look at the new cover of "time" magazine with rick stengel and "fortune" magazine's andy serwer. and a little later, the man worth being late for work for, definitely wait for this one. bill murray will be here. first here's ginger zee from wmaq in chicago with a check on the holiday travel forecast. fingers are still crossed that this green map stays green. no airport delays to report right now. your forecast today not bad. just a little stormy in parts of florida, also chicago and minneapolis. a look ahead to our thanksgiving. that's a whole lot of sunshine for turkey day. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i've been growing algae for 35 years. most people try to get rid of algae, and we're trying to grow it. the algae are very beautiful. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on. in using algae to form biofuels, we're not competing with the food supply. and they absorb co2, so they help solve the greenhouse problem, as well. we're making a big commitment to finding out... just how much algae can help to meet... the fuel demands of the world. wow! [ grunts ] oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. aah! [ door opens, closes ] wow. what's the occasion? [ male announcer ] relax. pam helps you pull it off. president obama wanted to have the state dinner earlier. he kept calling months and months and months ago, but all he got was tech support. >> from the white house, we have nbc news' white house correspondent savannah guthrie with details on the president's upcoming afghanistan announcement. also, who showed up at last night's white house state dinner? savannah, who came through to the big house? >> reporter: it was a little bit of hollywood, little bit of bolly wood. spielberg and jeffrey katzen. the list goes on and on. i know, joe, you've been e-mailing me all morning about what the designer was for mrs. obama's dress. it's an indian-american designer. >> seriously, it's been driving me crazy. who was the designer? >> reporter: so have your e-mails. it's been constant. they had the expand the bandwidth, there was so many on the blackberry. it was an indian designer. >> it's a beautiful dress. >> seriously, guys. >> so we had this tease earlier about what was in the president's glass. we knew it wasn't champagne. before they -- right after they set up the head table, you went from glass to glass drinking all the champagne. >> with your straw. >> what was the president actually drinking? >> reporter: i didn't see that joke coming. >> what was the president actually drinking? >> reporter: water apparently. speaking of the e-mail -- maybe i have a response here. oh, no, i don't. i don't know why. >> we're only on live tv, savannah. >> this is an important difference. water. >> reporter: and i plan today to get to the bottom of what i call watergate here at the white house. >> boo. >> trying to figure out why, but no answers yet. >> we were trying to find out for "way too early." i e-mailed bill burton. his response, "no idea." >> reporter: that's what i just got from someone else. nobody knows. >> now that we've cleared it up at the white house, why don't we move on to a topic that's not quite as important, afghanistan. the president is moving forward with his decision on afghanistan. where are we going here? >> reporter: we're going to learn on tuesday. i don't know if it's a lock, but likely to be a primetime speech, probably from the rumblings we're getting around here. he'll lay out a speech, and it will be in some detail. folks here really get a little irritated with the media's obsession, from their view, with the number of troops. important, of course, and we do think it's going to be probably somewhere in the 30,000 range, if you believe folks over at the pentagon what they expect. >> can i stop you there, savannah? >> sure. >> if that's the case, this is where the president was three or four weeks ago when he said, well, let's put it off another three or four weeks. i want more information. is the president going to end up where basically they've been all along? >> reporter: well, i don't know because, let's face it, i don't think we know with the level of specificity or granularity where these deliberations are. all of us are just trying to pick up the bread crumbs we can get. so it seems like, yes, the troop number has been around that for the last few weeks, as far as we understand it. in terms of strategy or where those troops are deployed when you get down in the weeds, that's where the discussion has been. it hasn't been a simple discussion of how many troops should we send? i really think the president may not have ultimately settled on it. as recently as late yesterday, it wasn't clear he'd told top aides this is what i'm going to do. clearly, he has a good idea what he's going to do, but the decision hasn't necessarily been made. >> he still hasn't made up his mind? >> reporter: in some ways, there's a little washington parlor game going on. folks here will always say the decision hasn't been made until it's leaving the president's lips and the press release is out. >> savannah, you have no idea, do you? you started drimpging last night and came on this show unprepared. you're using your little l law school tactic of just kind of telling the professor that you rae the case the night before when you really didn't. >> she found out what was in the glass. that was good. >> so she didn't. she admit, she didn't. she's been drunk for the past 24 hours. >> she can't hear you. the ear piece is broken. >> we're going to go to another tack here. what are you doing, thanksgiving, savannah? what are you going to do thanksgiving? >> reporter: i will be here. >> that's exciting. at the white house? >> reporter: yes. >> where's the president going to be on thanksgiving? >> reporter: he'll be here too. >> are you serious? they're not leaving the white house? >> reporter: he's not. he's going to do -- >> what about the turkey? they pardon the turkey every year. have they pardoned the turkey yet today? >> reporter: i'm glad you asked. on this i have a great deal of information because they're not afraid to talk about that. they're not afraid to hold that till tuesday. the turkey will be pardoned today. and also, the obamas are going to do a service event in the washington area today. the whole family. >> what's the name of the turkey? >> reporter: i don't know that they name him. chris says gobbles. gabbles? i don't know. >> gobbles or another turkey. yeah, greg craig. savannah, i hope you have a great thanksgiving. this has been -- >> yay, savannah. great job. >> this has been wonderful and illuminating. >> reporter: i'm just going to stand out here and wait for you guys. i guess you probably have the morning off tomorrow? >> no, no, i work every day. >> we're going to be here. >> reporter: happy thanksgiving. >> a lot of awkward silence. can we get a full screen of savannah and have a couple more seconds of awkward silence to wrap this up. full screen of savannah. let's watch this. >> reporter: i'm just going to check my blackberry. >> okay. thanks. >> reporter: yeah. love you. okay. let's wrap it. i'm going to do the chris licht job here. wrap it up. is this really on? yeah. >> okay. nbc's savannah guthrie, thank you so much. >> good job there. >> so, howard, you've got to stay with us. we're going to talk to howard dean right after the break. also talking about how bill clinton didn't want caroline kennedy to be senator and worked very hard to intimidate governor paterson. it's fascinating. >> we'll have that. also ahead, a grim new forecast for the fed. all straight ahead. >> you don't think we made savannah feel uncomfortable, do you? >> no. >> it wasn't for lack of trying. >> savannah can handle it. the new cover of "time" magazine is also ahead on "morning joe." voices heard. now, the president and congress are moving forward... with reform that includes the best ideas. backed by america's physicians. nurse leaders and nurse practitioners. america's hospitals. prohibiting cuts to medicare benefits. protecting your choice of health care professional. covering preventive care, and closing the prescription gap, to reduce out-of-pocket costs. ♪ well-informed people are considering chevy malibu. you a cop? 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welcome back to "morning joe." it is just before 7:30 on the east coast. time for a look at smfed too's top stories. early next week president obama is expected to announce his strategy for the u.s. led war in afghanistan. the president is said to be employing a plan that over time would send tens of thousands of u.s. troops to the country. despite growing resentment against the war, the president is confident americans will get behind the new strategy. the nation's unemployment rate will stay elevated for years. in october, the figure hit 10.2%, a 26 year high. even if massive recovery programs, officials say the rate could drop 7.5% in 2012 during the next presidential election cycle. yesterday the commerce department reported the third quarter gdp grew at 2.8%, slower than previous estimates of 3.5%. despite concerns over the economy, aaa is estimating more than 38 million americans will travel 50 miles or more for the thanksgiving holiday. while it's a jump from last year, fewer will be traveling by air. "the new york times" reporting that many travelers booked earlier, cheaper flights, meaning the travel crunch actually started last week. all right. now we've got to get to -- she's still standing there. does she have something to say? >> reporter: oh, hey, just kind of hoping you guys would come back to me. so i just stayed here. >> all right. savannah guthrie -- wait, chris is saying you actually have some updates for us. >> reporter: oh, i do. i've really been trying to get to the bottom of the pressing issues here at the white house. number one, courage is the name of the turkey. which has some irony to it considering this turkey's going to get pardoned. but i want you to contemplate that. and the other issue is i'm hearing now that it was actually white wine in the president's glass. >> really? you're hearing that? >> reporter: wine does come in the white variety, so i hear, and apparently that's what was in the glass. >> okay. good. thank you, savannah. such good reporting. courage. >> reporter: courage. >> courage and wine that you didn't taste. you just now know that. all right. >> reporter: carry on. >> savannah guthrie, thank you very, very much. thank you. >> reporter: sure. >> still ahead, bill murray will be here. first an exclusive look at the new cover of "time" magazine with richard stengel and "fortune" magazine's andy serwer. we'll be right back. so how long does it take a fresh vegetable to start losing essential nutrients? not long. in fact, green beans lose half their vitamin c in a week. that's why green giant freezes them within 8 hours to lock in nutrients. ho ho ho green giant of walmart's $10 90-day generic prescriptions... ...no matter where you live. plus get free shipping on over 3,000 other prescriptions. call 1-800-2-refill for your free home delivery. save money. live better. walmart. welcome back to "morning joe." 35 minutes past the hour. with us now, "time" managing editor richard stengel who's here to unveil the latest cover of "time" magazine, and "fortune" magazine editor andy serwer, who wrote the cover story. >> you stole his line. i had it all teed up. >> should i start over? we have the shot. we'll rerack the prompter and start. joe's here. >> let's reveal the "time" magazine cover. rick, what's on the cover this week? >> the cover this week is the decade from hell by my colleague andy serwer, the editor of "fortune" magazine. >> look at that picture. >> that's jack. that's my 17-month-old boy jack. >> he's a model. >> he's on the cover. >> that picture was taken with something called the red camera, which is actually a video camera that shoots high level stils. i'll get to that in a moment. basically, what happened a couple of months ago andy and i were talking, and he said the decade is coming to an end. i hadn't really thought about that. he said, it's been one of the worst decades in american history. >> been tough. >> he very quickly laid out a fantastic idea for this. i said, come on, it's a cover story for "time." >> and i didn't have anything else to do. >> you had plenty to do, but you did it. basically, andy in one fell swoop have been taken this decade that people have been unable to name, unable to put their arms around, and said here is what it is. here's what it means. and this is the way it will be. >> why is this the decade from hell? >> it started with 9/11 and ended with a financial meltdown, we had iran, afghanistan, enron, bernie madoff, katrina, school shootings, devastation, the rise of al qaeda. >> i'm depressed. >> there were some great things that happened in this decade too, but overall it was a decade where americans really suffered. there was a deferral of responsibility, neglect, and these things all sort of came home to roost this decade. >> wow. >> not a great one. if you lived in china or brazil, not a bad decade. but here in the united states, it was kind of tough. >> i think actually the decade was -- i think it -- a lot of people are negative right now, and i understand because unemployment is at 20%. i think this was the end of basically the baby boomer epic, the me generation that tom wolfe talked about so long ago. i think this ended it. i think america, believe it or not, i think we're in for great days ahead because all of the excesses of the past caught up with us this decade. and now, boom, we hit the reset button. speaking of tom wolfe, i remember reading a "rolling stone" article where wolfe said we've got the richest kids ever in the history of the world and more kids on medication than ever before. there are no guard rails. >> it is a little bit the end of the baby boomers. so much of what happened in the past decade is about the baby boomers. andy's point is we're too pessimistic about the decade to come, and it's going to turn out to be a lot better than we think in part because we have a lot of excesses behind us. we've been irresponsible. we haven't invested in our infrastructure. there are health care problems in america. the next decade is actually bound to be better. >> no doubt about it. mort, what do you think about this past decade? decade from hell? >> i don't have that feeling. just to pick one thing, i think it's absolutely miraculous and wonderful that we elected an african-american to be president of the united states in this decade. that is, to me, a stunning change in america, and that does reflect an evolution of our attitudes towards race that is quite remarkable. i think that is one of the great achievements of the decade. i do also think that what we ended with in terms of the economy is going to be enormously long lasting and determinative as part of the next decade. how that all came about is another question. at least until it came about, there was a fairly dramatic increase in the standard of living, but it ended in a real crash. i think that is one of the things we're all going to have to focus on and deal with in ways that nobody is anticipating even as we sit in it right now. >> you know, we look back in the 1930s, you think about 1932, fdr being elected and everything being ushered in. i wonder when we look back -- and you can do that with every decade. 1940, look at '45, 1950s. i don't know, maybe -- i don't know. >> eisenhower. >> maybe sputnik, which launched our race to the moon in the '60s. when are we going to look back -- what are historians going to look back at the decade from hell? is it going to be 9/11? is it going to be 9/15? or barack obama being elected president of the united states. which may be the transcendent moment of this decade. >> you may look at barack obama being elected as the next decade. the '60s ended in the mid-'70s kind of thing. you've got those tent post moments that obviously are not perfectly aligned with the decade, which, of course, is an arbitrary thing. i think, if you look at the cycles of history, we were so optimistic. to your point, joe, we won world war ii, we beat communism and were infallible. that built to a crescendo in the '90s with the tech boom. we had a reality check. i think the dream is not over, but we got a reality check. we've got to really hunker down now as we move ahead into the next decade. i don't disagree with mort that i think things will pick up. >> 9/11 woke up us from the arrogance of believing we were protected because of two oceans. that ended that fantasy. 9/15 woke us up from the belief that we could have it all, that we could just keep getting richer and richer and we had suspended the laws. you look at the savings rate. it's gone up. it's gone up in this decade to we're at 7% now, 6% from zero. >> that's an interesting positive thing. >> you talk about bullish on america, i think the hell that a lot of americans have been through, it's hard because there are 20% of americans that aren't working right now. >> tough medicine. >> it's been a very tough decade in the sense it's book-ended by 9/11 and at the end by the financial crisis. i think a lot of people have come to question what i think you are driving at, american exceptionalism. the idea that we are removed from the rest of the world both in terms of politics, both in terms of our economy, but actually we're connected. and a lot of people have felt the confidence in america erode a little bit. i do think the election of barack obama as the beginning of the next decade might be a way of reconceiving american conceptualism, what we can do going into the future. any's story, despite the fact it's called the decade from hell and looks back at what happened in the last decade is actually optimistic about what is going to happen in the future, in part because we recognize the flaws and the mistakes that we made in the last decade. >> you know what's fascinating, mika, is for me -- and i think looking at barack obama, the question is whether he realizes that the page has been turned. >> right. >> if he realizes what this election means because you look, afghanistan, it's going to be more of the same. financial -- >> iran. we may be faced with a nuclear iran, which will change the world. >> iran, a nuclear iran. you look at the people running his economics team, these aren't people for the next generation. these are people from the last generation. so that's a real question. i've got to say, one thing troubles me about this. this whole "time" magazine. how did they get this cover? did you, andy, go up and pinch this baby? >> were any babies harmed in the making of this cover, rick? i want to know that too. >> this is the first magazine cover taken with a red camera, which is a high fidelity video camera that shoots many, many frames per second. it's actually shot on video, and you take a frame to use as the cover. if you go to time.com this morning, you can see the cover come to life as a video and that baby squawking endlessly. i'm sure his mother -- >> that's some good television. >> thanks, mom. >> were any babies harmed in the making of this cover? >> the baby was admitted to actor's equity after this. it's a great career. >> think of this child growing up, i was on the cover of "time" magazine. >> you know how many kids are going to claim that? >> do you know whose baby that is? >> it's joe's. >> that looks just like jack. >> it's joe's. we know how to do covers at this company. >> i have to confess. i fathered that child. >> oh, post it. >> i didn't mean for it to come out this way. >> that's what i mean. you were going to scoop it. your paper wouldn't print it? >> i'm sorry. we'd put it in the sports section. >> the life of the publishing world. he doesn't know how many babies he has. i want to ask you about a very new york story. bill clinton, according to maureen dowd, deep sixed caroline kennedy for the senate seat. worked hard on governor paterson to make sure she was disqualified. had you heard that before? >> i'd heard that before. >> isn't that fascinating? >> it is fascinating. >> vengeance. but is our friend harold ford going to run? had you heard that? >> are you hearing that? >> someone told me that. >> harold ford may run for governor? >> someone said they wanted him to. senator. so you heard that too, mort >> you should really -- >> you heard it here first. >> gillibrand, i don't know her that well, but she is not going to win this new york election. if democrats think she is, they are kidding themselves. if you have gillibrand running, democrats in new york need to figure this out. you can either have senator giuliani or senator pataki. >> or senator ford. >> i'm saying, if gillibrand -- if it's gillibrand. but harold ford can win statewide. >> right. >> can we spread any more rumors? >> how about joe scarborough? senator scarborough. >> from new york. >> is it going to be senator dobbs, by the way, or is that the other state? what about senator dobbs? >> senator dobbs? oh, no, that's new jersey. >> he's running for president. >> that's right. >> lou dobbs for president. >> he's got some latinos. i saw that. >> he's got a couple of latino friends, from what i hear. >> the all true, mika. >> we're spiraling into -- >> we uncovered this phenomenal technology, the internet, and it's changing everything. that was an accomplishment of the preceding decade. >> yes. >> and it's literally changing everything. >> apple, google, facebook. this country is still alive and well. >> it's amazing. >> i hear the internet is really big with the kids. i'm going to have to look into it. >> especially with a kid on the cover. >> rick stengel, thank you so much. >> this looks great. >> amazing. >> great concept. the decade from hell. >> can i ask you real quick? are you going to have a person of the decade? >> person of the decade. we have a person of the year this year. you think we should also have person of the decade? >> that was hell. >> i really think you should have person of the decade? >> i think it's got to be barack obama, doesn't it? i don't know. >> bernie madoff. >> and by the way, it says when you select person of the decade, right? it's kind of confusing, this decade, but it ends in '09. >> some people say the decade actually ends next year. >> and i've been thinking about that. it's confusing now. think about it. in the '60s, nobody thought in 1970 they were still in the '60s, right? >> don't truck with that. >> the decade changes when the clock ticks over. >> "time" magazine, you need to have at least one page, person of the decade. >> there you go. >> could be george w. bush. could be. >> andy serwer, thank you as well. "fortune" magazine's latest issue is how to build great leaders. i like it. the 25 companies that do it best. up next, willie's got the cooler for you, including the numbers are in for "going rogue." how did sarah palin, the author, do? >> huge. >> you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. in this corner-- the heavy weight champ-- the new colgate 360 actiflex. oh yeah. look at those moves. i hear he cleans more than just teeth. and since 80% of bacteria aren't on teeth his flexible head moves left, right. it really cleans around and in-between teeth. and gums too. whoa. and he goes in with the cheek and tongue cleaner-- ow! knocking out more bacteria with a one-two punch. ouh! the whole mouth is clean! bacteria down for the count! (announcer) colgate 360 actiflex. teeth, tongue cheeks and gums. for a whole mouth clean. colgate: recommended by dentists. ♪ on sale this black friday ♪ to best buy you have to go ♪ ♪ 'cause we have gone plum loco ♪ [ male announcer ] the sprint palm pre smartphone. just $79.99. black friday at best buy starts at 5 am. so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. two of nature's sweetest wonders now in new sun crystals ® . the only 100% natural sweetener made with pure cane sugar and stevia. with just 5 calories a packet. new sun crystals ® all natural sweetener. . let's gather up around the water cooler as people gather around the a rockefeller christmas tree. that will be lit up. number one, adam lambert, the former "american idol" contestant who shocked the world, we won't show you the dirty parts. there was making out and simulated sex, and -- i am not showing it, just describing it. >> move on. >> he was booked to be on good morning america, after seeing this performance gma yanked him from the show, and they have a morning show and could not afford to have him on the show. adam lambert said he respected the decision, disagreed with it, but said he respected it. by the way, another morning show that will remain nameless picked him up and put him on their show today. >> how did it go? >> i don't know. sarah palin, she had a big day coming a little shy of president clinton's memoir. 700,000 books sold in the first week. that trails bill clinton who sold 900,000 in his first week. and she remains number one right now on amazon.com. just ahead of a book about the "twilight" movies. >> gosh -- that's selling a book. >> about a month from now, sarah palin is going to give her a run for her money. >> i don't think so. >> more reality tv for you. last night congressman tom delay returning to "dancing with the stars." remember he left prematurely because he had a couple bad wheels and could not get around and last night he returned to show us his version of the texas two step. ♪ i can't see texas from here ♪ >> mika, did the hip shake make you weak in the knees? >> well, i defer to you all, because he put himself out there. i am not a reality show fan, but if there was one to watch i think it would be that one. >> i think you are closet reality show watcher -- >> no, i think they are smut and porn, and network executives should have been ashamed of themselves. >> and they are getting ratings. >> not good for america. >> speaking of ratings, bill murray will be here to talk in this study. it just doesn't matter! >> it just doesn't matter? it just doesn't matter! it just doesn't matter! it just doesn't matter! even if we win, even if we win, even if we play so far over our heads that our noses bleed for ten days, and even if god in heaven above comes down and points his hand to our side of the field, and even every man, woman and child held hands and preyed for us to win, it just wouldn't matter! smells good. it's a cookie exchange. we're baking up holiday spirit to share with friends around the country. you know, priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service makes shipping simpler than no-bake peanut cluster. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. so sending macadamia moos to miami costs the same as sending sugar trees to sante fe? same price for snicker doodles to spokane or pumpkin pinwheels to poughkipsee. okee-dokee. okee-dokee. priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95, only from the postal service. beautiful, louisville, kentucky. so glad for that. it's getaway day. >> traffic moving nicely. >> yes, it is. on this special getaway day, we bring you live, a look at newark, new jersey. >> newark, you are looking good. >> yes, you are. >> what is that? >> forget l.a. let's go back to newark for a second. now, there is newark. that is beautiful. there is another shot in new jersey coming up. >> this is a shot of the jersey turnpike. >> is that the molly -- >> you are stereotyping my home state. >> what is that, willie? >> looks like the turnpike, and probably 16. >> it's the top of the hour, and we have bill murray coming in. >> cinderella story. >> yes, he is. >> at the fund-raiser he provided vodka for all. >> he asked if you needed a sweater. >> okay. that's uncomfortable. >> no it's not. what is uncomfortable about that? last time he was there he got you a sweater. >> that was nice of him and i still wear it. >> i bet you do. >> all right. and andrea mitchell is with us, and also in washington, msnbc chief washington correspondent norah o'donnell joins us as well for the conversation. >> we have an awful lot to talk about today around the table, including a rumor about our own harold ford running for something, and that comes on the heels of the maureen dowd where she said clinton was working over time about kennedy's looking at a senate seat. >> and then we have a rough story. let's get to the news now. our top story today, president obama signaling his attention to send thousands of additional u.s. troops to afghanistan. an announcement is expect early next week likely during a primetime address on tuesday. most details are not yet public, including the exact number of troops and the specific exit strategies, the president says he intends to destroy the region's terror networks. >> after eight years, some of those years in which we did not have a strategy to get the job done, it is my intention to finish the job. and i feel very confident that when the american people hear a clear rational for what we are doing there and how we intent to achieve our goals that they will be supported. >> do you think he can give a message that will rally the country behind the effort? >> it's possible. possible. but very interesting, savannah guthrie had information that nobody knows. anybody that tells you that they know what president obama is going to do in afghanistan today is lying. they do not know. he is holding it close to his invest. and they have the pentagon leaking it's going to be around 35,000, but nobody knows. the country's prime minister of india was the guest at first white house state dinner. and it turns out the president was toasting the leader with wine. that comes from savannah guthrie. >> yeah, and she did not know. >> the focused turned to international relation. >> tonight we gather again for the first state dinner of my presidency, with the prime minister as we celebrate the great and growing partnership between united states and india. mr. prime minister today we work to fulfill our duty and bring our countries closer together than ever before. tonight underneath the stars we celebrate the bonds between our people. these next two stories we put back to back. a little perspective here. according to the "washington post," a new forecast from the federal reserve show the nation's unemployment rate will stay elevated for years. and in october we had a 26 year high. and then officials say the rate could top 7.5% in 2012. and yesterday the commerce reported the gdp was slower than expected, and now this, how does house minority leader john boehner keep the radiant tan? boehner's political action committee spent almost $83,000 on golf outings. his most recent outing at the invitation only course in virginia, and it cost $20,000. at a jack nicholas designed course, $29,000. at the ritz-carlton course in florida, 30,000. >> andrea, we are used to politicians being out of touch, but it seems to me the guy running the republican caucus in the house of representatives making the argument at a time when real unemployment is 20%, and spending $30,000 at a golf outing is one of the most inexplicable moves i have ever heard. when that party says put us back in power, we know we screwed up last time, but put us in power and we will put your financial house in order. >> here you have the democrats somewhat on the defensive for fairly or fought fairly because unemployment is lagging and people are getting angrier, and the economy is the issue, and with the hang over of afghanistan and health care, the president is having a hard time talking about jobs. and then you have this, john boehner? and then you have a short drive, not much of a drive from washington, d.c., and we are not talking about airplanes here. >> yeah, and it's also that money was provided by the political action committee. >> that's another thing. >> these were fund r-raiserfund so they were paying for the diners. >> and the tanning beds. >> he got to take his home, the tanning bed? >> yeah. >> and politicians always used that excuse to live like kings. and there is no justification for this. you know what? if you want to have it at a nice hotel downtown, can you get an ice sculpture, which is stupid. i have been to the fund-raisers where the congressman and his staff think they are showing how big and powerful they are, and then make the stupidist decisions that look -- again, how out of touch can you be when people are out of work you are spending $30,000 at a golf outing with your political supporters? >> last week i was on the road, and we were chatting last week because i was out in the midwest on the sarah palin book tour. and just talking to the people at the malls and at the super box stores, and they are really angry and really hurting. whether or not you agree or disagree with sarah palin, a rage against the establishment in both parties and against washington out there. and it's building. i have not seen this since ross perot and others, and politicians should ignore this at their peril. >> norah, we are talking about john boehner and this information. i think we dug it up on politico. $82,000 this year on golf courses. >> this could be an issue in his own campaign and for the republican party. it's embarrassing for him. you think there is rage against wall street, and the millions of dollars in bonuses, and there will be rage at spending thousands at golf courses. it doesn't look good. and as andrea just talked about, many people that are out there for sarah palin, because she is just like me. and john boehner is not just like me, and the voters are hurting. joe, you know this was an issue in 1992, and there were pictures of congress playing golf, and they were tossed out of office, because that's what people don't like, they should not be having drinks and a good time. >> the president of the united states, the conservatives -- i have e-mails since we started to talk about this, and barack obama has golfed more than george w. bush did in eight years. >> i don't begrudge the president going to andrew's air force base or the navy -- >> yeah, i have no problem john boehner golfing all he wants to golf, but when you spend $82,000 wining and dining your biggest supporters n. a year where 20% of americans are unemployed, that's a serious problem. look at these numbers. again, a great golf course, i have played robert trent jones, that's a great course, and i hope talking about that course does not stop them from inviting me back because i love it. and jack nicholnicklaus's kaufl course is great. >> norah, you cover the hill in the '90s, and you saw guys coming in because of the excesses in '92, '93 and '94. i guess the politicians can get away with this when the economy is good, but -- >> optics are bad. >> yeah, and it's not the amount of money in playing golf. not because people begrudge you for taking time off, but who you are playing golf with, with lobbyists and other insiders, that's something the american people don't have tolerance for. >> he is not playing golf at robert trent jones with the bag boys at the grocery store, mort? >> yeah, and there is a lot of anger and justifiably so with the people who got us in this mess. and a lot of politicians got us into trouble by not managing the economy very well, and then flaunting it? that's outrageous. >> caroline kennedy is not senator for new york right now. governor patterson did not pick her to fill hillary clinton's new york senate seat. this is what maureen dowd said about the way that they threw greg craig under the bus. norah o'donnell, sort of explosive information? >> yeah, i don't have inside scoop about whether that is true, but that's certainly -- who just said i do? >> that was mort. >> i was involved in that. bill clinton did not force caroline kennedy out, she decided at the last minute she did not like this and the public role and she is a very private person and wanted to concentrate on her family and told that to the governor and the governor was furious at her that she wanted to withdrawal. and the governor sent his people around to tell stories about her, which she -- the governor subsequently denied that. >> it was he who threw her under the bus, and i don't think it's fair to blame clinton for something patterson messed up. but greg craig was treated shabby, and people have been so loyal to barack obama, and it seems they don't get paid back for that. >> yeah, and greg is not the first to complain about that. >> well, he is not complaining it. >> let's just say he is not the first to get the obama treatment where you are used until -- well, until you are no longer useful and then thrown under the bus. >> there are ways of doing that. i think if you have to separate yourself from somebody like greg craig who is a loyalists to him who did work and did it against his old mentors, including hillary clinton, and then got slammed and treated badly on the way out, it didn't have to be done that way. >> they play hardball at the white house. >> yeah, he has been a class act. i know a lot of people, and he has not been complaining himself. >> well, the barack obama white house still does not have the old washington hand in there that i think that they need. i understand the need for change, but every white house seems to make this mistake. you know, jimmy carter brought up the georgia mafia, and people like bert blants, and they learned the hard way. you need people that know washington. bill clinton made the same mistake. and right now we have a obama white house that knows how chicago politics are run, and they do not know how washington works, and that's why they are still struggling with health care reform. >> and bill clinton brought in lloyd cutler, and lloyd benson. >> yeah, and lloyd benson was the first treasury secretary, of course. maybe if tom daschle would have been in the inner circle? >> yeah, i said that all along, if tom daschle would have been the chief of staff instead of rahm emanuel, i think the health care would have been passed because he knew how to play washington. >> yeah, two different stiles of leadership. >> norah, thank you, and andrea thank you for staying with us. i hope up next, behind the scenes, how the white house narrowed down the invite list for the state dinner? >> you were on the third tier list. it's like a wedding. >> i was on the fourth tier guest list in the bush white house. i am up a notch. and then from fighting gophers to something else. the airport delays are okay. chicago and miami, should not the be bad. only small delays. philly, 45 minutes. and throughout the country, all looking real good. no delays to report there. here is your forecast overall. sunshine and 80 in l.a. i wish i had family there. you are watching morning joe brewed by starbucks. discover gives you a cash back bonus on every single purchase. what you do with it is up to you. what will you get back with your cash back? now more than ever, it pays to discover. vo: at the leading national week supermarkets on frequently purchased groceries... vo: ...could have saved $110 in just two months by shopping at walmart. vo: imagine the special gifts you can buy your family with the savings. save money. live better. walmart. how about a coastal soup and grilled shrimp salad combination? or maybe our new savory shrimp jambalaya. seafood lunches starting at just $6.99 at red lobster. do you talk with your husband, the spris president when you know how hard the situation is. >> of course i talk to joe. we know how difficult it is. i have faith in joe's decision and barack's decision, and i know they will make the right choice. >> norah o'donnell is in washington, d.c. >> was this the exclusive with joe biden. >> yeah, tell us about it. >> she is very, very private. she stayed out of the spotlight and does not like to talk to the press. there is one issue she is not shy about, which is the military. she does a lot with community colleges, where more and more americans are going to school, especially with this economy. and they had thanksgiving dinner for some of the fisher house troops, and that's a great organization. >> and it's personal to them too, obviously, because of their son. >> yeah, this is an issue they understand what military families go through. they invited people who lost their legs and limbs into the vice president's house. it's an issue that she is trying to talk more about. especially on thanksgiving we need to reach out and remember the women and men in the military. >> i don't care what your political affiliation is, i love the bidens, and they are great people. >> thank you, norah. >> i am saying in general. >> exactly. good clarification. >> joe, the fact that he is vice president, i just naturally called him joe. he is real and down-to-earth. >> i left a message, and i caught myself saying joe, because he is so casual. >> yeah, mr. vice president. i never call mike -- because i put him up here. grand emperor allen, and the top politico correspondent, mike allen is here, to talk about the play book. and a good buzz lately. on the cover of what magazine? >> another cover for the vice president. "the new york times" magazine on sunday, and "after cheney" it's called, and vice president cheney recalls talking to the joint chiefs of staff about afghanistan. he says he asked him a special question, guys, what if it doesn't work? that was his position on the afghanistan surge. he didn't win, but is still getting the great press. >> and the state dinner was the hottest ticket in town. give us a scoop on the invitation list and specifically why i was not invited? >> there was an empty spot, and i think you were invited. if you are not in oshkosh or allentown driving to upstate new york, you wanted to be in the big tent on the south lawn. we saw obama's really different approach to entertaining. there was not the usual head table. the president and the vice president and their spouses were slit up. they hosted their own table in the center of the room. china, it did not match. there was some clinton and some eyes ey bush china. oprah did not show, despite some of the rumors. but oprah will be there next week. >> do you think the boehner story, do you that's problems coming, $82,000 on golf courses this year? >> anything that gives "morning joe" the chance to talk about golfing, and tanning, and republicans and absurd spending, probably not something you want. >> okay then. >> and what are you doing for thanksgiving? >> a little uncle time down in north carolina. we'll have a ball. >> drive safely down there. >> thank you. politico's mike allen, thank you very much. you went to a great event last night too? >> mika, this is a great organizations. we here in the united states understand the press freedoms, but people on the frontlines, and we will interview one of the winners today. 27 years old, and all of his colleagues under fire, and many died in the bloodshed in somalia. we forget about the wars and the people who everyday are fighting for press freedoms. we will talk to him today. mustafa. we were honoring a big sacrifice, but some could not be there because they died. >> and some died, particularly in russia, where many, many have been killed. >> yeah, that's terrible. >> and recently in the philippines, one of the first horrific murder. coming up in just minutes -- oh, he changed. >> he is out of his t-shirt. >> he had on a red t-shirt and looked handsome. >> right here, on the set of "morning joe," all dressed up and bringing us coffee. up next -- >> that's a badger, not coffee. it looks like you are coffee if you are on ambien and vodka. >> and then we have the new jobless claims coming up. stick around. last year, when you bought a new subaru during the share the love event, you helped us donate almost $5 million dollars to charity. i chose meals on wheels because i believe in food for all. i chose habitat for humanity. our pets are our kids. we chose the aspca. we're sharing the love again this year. because giving back feels good. get a great deal on the subaru outback, motor trend's 2010 sport/utility of the year and two hundred fifty dollars gets donated to your choice of five charities. let's get a check of business before the bell. erin burnett, you have got some new jobless numbers. tell us about them. >> i have new jobless numbers. coming in at 466,000, slightly better than expected. still way higher than you need it to be to see improving jobs markets, you need to be lower than 400,000. and the good news, income growth in the country was twice as strong as expected. the increase is 2/10 of a percentage, which sounds small, but it's still good. and those are the october numbers. and we also have durable goods numbers. when you take out transportation falling down about 1.3%. markets are taking it in stride, and it's probably going to go up today. >> what is the feeling on the street? we have the fed chief coming out saying we have unemployment for the foreseeable future, and estimates being resized down as we talked about yesterday, and the street, is it bullish on the economy? >> fighting, fighting, fighting. two camps. one thinks we are going to have a solid recovery. nobody is looking for anything explosive, and others think we are going to stumble back into the recession, because the stimulus is going to go away. that's the fight. do we have a picture, pete? joe, there has been an undate. a group of 6,000 camals attacked people hostage. people are too frightened to see their homes. and the australian government is using this as another thing to say they should fly over the camels and shoot them over the air. and then a plan opened up a consultation in australia next month. >> you talk about andrea mitchell going to the organization that fights to protect the lives of endangers journalis journalists, and erin burnett has been on a crusade to protect the camels in australia. >> are the camels holding those people for ransom? >> well, the article says that, but it's sort of funny. but there is a real money story. >> erin burnett, thank you so much. have a good thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving. >> get some sleep. bill myrurray up next, as h new movie is fantastic mr. fox. what is he holding? >> i think it's a badger. conges. so you can feel better. ♪ at a price that'll make you say ♪ ♪ those best buy guys have lost their minds ♪ ♪ right on this black friday [ male announcer ] 120 hz, forty-six-inch samsung tv. just $999.99. black friday at best buy starts at 5 a.m. right now 1.2 million people are on sprint mobile broadband. 31 are streaming a sales conference from the road. 154 are tracking shipments on a train. 33 are iming on a ferry. and 1300 are secretly checking email on a vacation. that's happening now. america's most dependable 3g network. bringing you the first and only wireless 4g network. right now get a free 3g/4g device for your laptop. sprint. the now network. ♪ i feel his pain. >> was that you? >> that is the way some days start, except it's 5:55. >> yeah, and i have been excited about this. not that thing, but this man. >> not the badger? >> >> bill murray on the set with us. >> yes, bill murray who is the voice for the character, mr. badger, in the film "the fantastic mr. fox." >> take a look. >> you are moving into the most dangerous neighborhood for somebody of your type of spaes sees. >> your comments are valuable, but i will ignore them. >> are you cussing at me? >> you are cussing at me. >> that's looking fun. >> that was a director that you invested for a long time? >> yeah, we made five movies now. and this one was -- and he is great at making it fun to do. wes anderson. >> this is a jump for him. to animation? >> well, i guess everybody thinks that they should try it once. but stop motion an mission is an arduous thing, because it's millions of photographs, and then they slightly change between each photograph. it's so much work, it's crazy. it took a couple works to make it. >> you were saying off camera, this is a really good -- >> no spin and no pr, and you say this is a really good movie, he got it right? >> well, it's a great writer, and you know, when you take one of these stories and you want to make a film of it you have to expanded it and add more to it. what wes did, they went and wrote the script in the home of daul in england. and all the extra in the film is all of daul's life and his neighborhood and all the things in his house. it's fun to see. it's very -- you immediately want to see it again. >> bill, tell me about the process for one of these animated movies. you did garfield, and it's like two guys in head phones yelling at each other. how is this opposed to having to act with your body and face. >> well, you know my body is my ticket. >> yes, i was leading you there. >> your body is a temple. >> yeah, a pagan temple. >> and we did all of these scenes in the wild, in the shed and out next to a creek to sort of get the feel of a team. it was a lot of fun. we had great meals and long dinners, you know. >> it's usually -- >> yeah, it's never like that. people screaming at each other and drinking coffee. i ask scream louder than you. >> we told people you were coming on today, and everybody said we loved him in "rushmore," and then the obsession with "meatballs." what movie did you have the most fun doing? >> the most fun making was "what about bob." >> oh, my god! >> we were in a resort in virginia, and it completely emptied out the day we got there. labor day, there was just people -- motor boats coming through the window at you, and the next day it was crickets and birds, and we had it for three months. and people make their own liquor stills there. moonshine is really efficient. it never sneaks up on you. >> that's right. >> this is why you two relate so well. >> yes, you know what, this is the only man that cared about my needs on the day that we were freezing. where were we? >> hinious port. >> you provided me with much needed relief. i appreciate it. >> we found the coldest spot on cape cod. >> you supported the rfk memorial. why? >> i get a kick out of either annual k --et -- ethel kennedy, she is a great woman. but was chipping and putting, she is just another statistic. >> you have to drag her around? >> yeah, and my shoulders are ankl ankla aching. >> we have been busting john boehner's golf balls this morning. >> yeah, that could have been at value. think about it. if you have to meet with people, golfing, it's four hours and quiet, and you know, how many people is that? how many rounds of golf is that? if you had to bring the people from another city and put them in a hotel, like a sweuite, you are talking a couple thousand a day. it could be more economic than the kind of money they throw around dragging people into a hotel. >> i hope boehner is off listening to this. he can transcribe this defense. >> you are glad president obama golfs each week? >> yeah, you need to caddie, and then you become a member. >> yeah, golf is, you know, that is -- that was my education. >> so the badger doesn't have a wisconsin accent. i understand you were going to have a wisconsin accent -- >> well, i did not want to deal with it. i was listening to tapes from npr radio for weeks, and chris farley will be happy, and i thought that because nobody has done wisconsin for a while, and then i did a couple takes, and somebody came up and said, no, it's more like a -- >> can you give us some? >> well, no, it's not as extreme. it's not like up in minnesota, it's not that bad. but it was on the way to that. it was beautiful. look at him. he is going, could have been a wisconsin accent. >> bill, one of the reasons people like you i think is because you don't seem to be wrapped up in the hollywood scene, and is it true you still don't have a manager and agent and people cannot find you? >> i have trouble finding myself. i never had an agent, i had a manager in little league, and i had an agent and it did not work out eventually. and the it's just more people that you have to pick up the phone for, answer, and it drives you nuts. >> you don't feel the pull to going to the ivy? >> well, the food is okay. and the paparazzi hangout there, and it's a horror show. if you have to live and work in showbiz, it's better to work in new york, because you get it over with and people are still working out there. >> yeah, and you will be done in an hour and people will still be out there driving to work. >> methadone actors? >> yeah, that's on the west coast. >> it seems like the arc of a career, it didn't pop the last movie. >> there was a moment, a while ago, where people thought this guy was just too precious, and he is just too kirky or something like that. i think that it's just sour grapes, really. because there are moves in that film that are really great. and each film has gotten better. but there is a lot of -- on the internet there was a whole thing, let's hate this guy because he is successful movement. and this movie here, this thing, it's all over. it's all over. because when you see this movie, you are like, i give, you cannot argue with this guy's talent. it's kind of fun, because it has been months of waiting for this, and knowing what was coming. and it's just silent out there. >> i can't wait to bring my girls. >> i will take my kids to it. >> this is going to be -- it's really -- not to sound like that, but it's -- adults enjoy the movie, because it's smart and it's really funny. >> that's great. thank you so much for sharing it with us, and bringing in -- >> well -- >> -- the badger. >> he came in from england today. that was the most amazing thing i have seen, the factory where they shot the studio, it was more talent than anyplace i have seen ever. there was really a lot of talented people there. >> the movie opens big this week everywhere in the country this week. it's opening in new york and los angeles >> are you on track to do another movie at this point? >> i am going to poland to the film festival. >> can i get anything for you while i am there? >> vodka. i heard about a vodka that doesn't give you a hangover. >> go to the black cat, it's in the basement, and they will give you vodka by the glass. let's put it that way. >> and all the heroin you need. >> really? i am going. and the movie is over there, it's a film festival? >> thank you so much for coming in. coming up on "morning joe," we will give you an update on how you can help the brewing efforts. we'll be right back. son: mommy, i want a football field, and a dinosaur that rides a skateboard and does flips off a mountain... mom: thanks to walmart, i can give them a christmas as big as their imaginations. son: ...and a remote control airplane that can fly into outerspace... even if my budget isn't. son: ...and a robot that makes cotton candy... anncr: there are now over a hundred new rollbacks on the season's hottest toys, many for only $10 or less. christmas costs less at walmart. save money. live better. walmart. and then there is the voice-recognizing, text-out-loud-reading, turn-by-turn-direction- giving sync® system ...in the all-new taurus from ford. (beep) (sync® voice) please say a command. read message. (sync® voice) highway 8 closed. update route. (sync® voice) turn right on silver road. (announcer) we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one. new aches and pains, ...and new questions about which pain reliever is right for your body. tylenol 8 hour works with your body, with one layer that dissolves quickly... ...one layer that lasts all day ...and no layers that irritate your stomach the way that ibuprofen can. it's tough on your body pain. not on your body. last week in new orleans, we helped the high school there raise $240,000, which is going for a badly needed new roof for the auditorium, and a new floor in the gym. we want to remind you, too, this effort is not over and you can get involved. we posted simple tools on our website at joe.msnbc.com. if you are looking for an opportunity to get involved click on the hands on network to get involved in the community. and you can help schools across the country, a link there as well. and you can up load your videos to volunteering to joe.msnbc.com. and tell us what you are doing and why you are committed to public service. this is a long-term project for us that does not end in new orleans. we will do it throughout the year and want your help. coming up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? we know why we're here. to stand behind all who serve. ♪ to deliver the technologies... vital to freedom. ♪ to help carry hope to those in need. ♪ around the globe, the people of boeing... are working together -- for what matters most. that's why we're here. ♪ okay, now here's our holiday gift list. aww, not the mall. well, i'll do the shopping... if you do the shipping. shipping's a hassle. i'll go to the mall. hey. hi. you know, holiday shipping's easy with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. yea, i know. oh, you're good. good luck! priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. mika is holding bill's badger. >> what did you learn today? >> you can wake up at this hour and still be in a good mood, and kind to people. >> i learned bill murray could be funny without polish vodka. >> and earlier on way too early we called the butter line turkey talk line, and lewis was my personal chef, and he was an expert with the turkey baster is all i can say. >>

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